The Official Costume Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[hopefuldreamer]

Personally, I think it was a calculated move on DC's part to allow that story to see print. Obviously if they viewed Superman as their flagship character, they would have not published a book by a then-major talent that denigrated him in such a strong manner. I personally feel that DC did it as a business decision-that they decided that because of changes in the comics market and changes in comics themselves, moving towards a darker, more cynical style, that Batman would serve them better as he fit that style more than Superman could. Plus-and this is the big one-DC had been getting sued off and on since the late 40's by Siegel and Shuster and they had to know more lawsuits were possible. So they could invest in Superman, a character whose rights they might not always 100% control and whose costs in royalities to the creators and their heirs could possibly go up, or they could make Batman, who was almost as famous as Superman, their flagship character and they knew his rights and cost were under control. As a pure business decision, it's really hard to argue with-look at the results.

That makes complete sense... sadly

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

As a purely DC business decision, it doesn't. As a Batman publishing decision. Yes.

 

[Adenjo]

Topics on this thread do seem to stretch pretty randomly

I think this one went: Crowe's costume - Traditionalism rocks - Snyder doesn't get Superman - Snyder once said he likes TDKR so he REALLY doesn't get Superman - Frank Miller doesn't get Superman and that story sucks...

It's definitely time for a 'So Anyway... the suit'

You're right...

So anyway.. the suit...

I love it it.. Not in love with the \S/ yet.. But on the whole loving the suit design.

 

[camp Blood]

cavill's suit isn't the bee's knees but its is a nice alternative and a refershing change of pace

 

[DKDetective]

I think people defend Miller because like them, Miller knows nothing about the characters he writes stories with...or ignores their history so as to make them fit whatever point he is trying to make.

Kurosawa, if you insult other board members who disagree with you one more time by claiming that it is because they don't know anything or don't care about the character, I will report you to the mods. You do not speak for others. You do not know why others know something unless they tell you, so so stop slandering and insulting others by making baseless claims that people like or do not like something because they are ignorant or don't care. I've frankly had enough of this. I enjoying discussing the character, his history, and the themes of the stories with you, but please stop speaking for other fans and dismissing their views on ignorance or other insults.

 

[Kurosawa]

Kurosawa, if you insult other board members who disagree with you one more time by claiming that it is because they don't know anything or don't care about the character, I will report you to the mods. You do not speak for others. You do not know why others know something unless they tell you, so so stop slandering and insulting others by making baseless claims that people like or do not like something because they are ignorant or don't care. I've frankly had enough of this. I enjoying discussing the character, his history, and the themes of the stories with you, but please stop speaking for other fans and dismissing their views on ignorance or other insults.

Since defending Superman and his creators will result in me getting infractions and a banning, I have nothing left to say on this matter. I'm done here.

Goodbye.

 

[Motown Marvel]

That makes complete sense... sadly

yet its completely unfounded speculation.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Since defending Superman and his creators will result in me getting infractions and a banning, I have nothing left to say on this matter. I'm done here.

Goodbye.

its not the defense of the siegel and shuster people have a problem with. its your incessant claim that anyone who doesnt agree with your narrow minded point of view of superman isnt a fan of superman.

Goodbye.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Goodbye.

 

[Krumm]

damn, no love lost here.

 

[Kurosawa]

If defending Superman against a story that portrayed him as unfavorably as DKR makes me narrow minded, then I am glad to be narrow minded. I call it having standards.

Defending the indefensible is a good bit of why Superman has fallen as far as he has. DKR should not be acceptable to a Superman fan under any circumstances.

What I find narrow minded is when I dare to criticize anything about this movie, I am assaulted and insulted. And if I happily rubber stamped every change that was made, then people would love everything I post.

I have tried on here to educate people-a good deal of who had misconceptions and a lack of knowledge of Superman and his history-about the truths of the character, about what was actually in the comics, and about what his creators intended. But since DC/WB have screamed from the highest mountain for 25 years that Superman is a silly Big Blue Boy Scout and an establishment dope and that Batman will and can kick his ass anytime he damn well pleases, well it is hard for a nobody on the internet like me to change the minds of hearts of people who have been taught by Superman's owners that the way he was from 1938-1986 was lame.

I'm fighting a losing battle here, trying to teach people who have no interest in learning. And I'm not going to get banned for it now that I am being threatened for it. I might drop my 2 cents, and that's it. I'm not a big fan of censorship but I'm not going to push it. Even posting this final rebuttal is more than I should do.

 

[Marx]

No one needs to be "educated" Kuro. We're all fans or we wouldn't be here.

 

[Krumm]

No one needs to be "educated" Kuro. We're all fans or we wouldn't be here.

And there's the rub. While I appreciate the knowledge he offers, it's delivered with condescension and arrogance that makes it so difficult to listen to and accept. That fanboy attitude hurts the comic industry -- it's what keep me out of many LCS. I don't like the idea of invading someone's private space or feeling like a lesser being for asking a simple question.

That's why I come here -- there are thousands of people here everyday with varying degrees of knowledge and it makes it easy to find an answer without judgment... for the most part that is...

 

[hopefuldreamer]

If defending Superman against a story that portrayed him as unfavorably as DKR makes me narrow minded, then I am glad to be narrow minded. I call it having standards.

Defending the indefensible is a good bit of why Superman has fallen as far as he has. DKR should not be acceptable to a Superman fan under any circumstances.

What I find narrow minded is when I dare to criticize anything about this movie, I am assaulted and insulted. And if I happily rubber stamped every change that was made, then people would love everything I post.

I have tried on here to educate people-a good deal of who had misconceptions and a lack of knowledge of Superman and his history-about the truths of the character, about what was actually in the comics, and about what his creators intended. But since DC/WB have screamed from the highest mountain for 25 years that Superman is a silly Big Blue Boy Scout and an establishment dope and that Batman will and can kick his ass anytime he damn well pleases, well it is hard for a nobody on the internet like me to change the minds of hearts of people who have been taught by Superman's owners that the way he was from 1938-1986 was lame.

I'm fighting a losing battle here, trying to teach people who have no interest in learning. And I'm not going to get banned for it now that I am being threatened for it. I might drop my 2 cents, and that's it. I'm not a big fan of censorship but I'm not going to push it. Even posting this final rebuttal is more than I should do.

I may not always agree with the way you express your opinion, and I find your complete commitment to over blown and generalised opinions somewhat frustrating at times.

But I have certainly found that in reading your posts since I have been on these forums, being directed to specific older stories and generally conversing and figuring out what I liked best about Superman myself, I have learned A LOT that I didn't realise I didn't know.

I just wanted you to know, because I think it is important to keep reminding people of Superman's roots and pointing out the flaws of changes to the character that came about for negative reasons.

TBH, if you stop, i'll start.

It's just, it'll take me some time to read as many Superman stories as you have. I'm working on it though t:.

You just gotta stop being so heavy handed towards people who don't see things your way.

yet its completely unfounded speculation.

Yeah... I just think it sounds like a logical explanation for what I find to be an illogical decision.

cavill's suit isn't the bee's knees but its is a nice alternative and a refershing change of pace

That's how I feel. I was pro trunks, but it's a good no trunks costume if there was ever going to be one.

 

[Krumm]

Yeah... I just think it sounds like a logical explanation for what I find to be an illogical decision.

But I feel like its just based on the hindsight knowledge of how big DKR has become. I doubt DC knew the impact the story would have on pop culture and that and on how people are going to view Superman for years to come. Thinking otherwise, I find a little conspiracy theorist.

 

[Kurosawa]

I may not always agree with the way you express your opinion, and I find your complete commitment to over blown and generalised opinions somewhat frustrating at times.

But I have certainly found that in reading your posts since I have been on these forums, being directed to specific older stories and generally conversing and figuring out what I liked best about Superman myself, I have learned A LOT that I didn't realise I didn't know.

I just wanted you to know, because I think it is important to keep reminding people of Superman's roots and pointing out the flaws of changes to the character that came about for negative reasons.

TBH, if you stop, i'll start.

It's just, it'll take me some time to read as many Superman stories as you have. I'm working on it though t:.

You just gotta stop being so heavy handed towards people who don't see things your way.



Yeah... I just think it sounds like a logical explanation for what I find to be an illogical decision.



That's how I feel. I was pro trunks, but it's a good no trunks costume if there was ever going to be one.

I'll try to be more neutral since if I try to take a stand I piss people off...but regardless, please read and learn all you can!

 

[Motown Marvel]

If defending Superman against a story that portrayed him as unfavorably as DKR makes me narrow minded, then I am glad to be narrow minded. I call it having standards.

Defending the indefensible is a good bit of why Superman has fallen as far as he has. DKR should not be acceptable to a Superman fan under any circumstances.

What I find narrow minded is when I dare to criticize anything about this movie, I am assaulted and insulted. And if I happily rubber stamped every change that was made, then people would love everything I post.

I have tried on here to educate people-a good deal of who had misconceptions and a lack of knowledge of Superman and his history-about the truths of the character, about what was actually in the comics, and about what his creators intended. But since DC/WB have screamed from the highest mountain for 25 years that Superman is a silly Big Blue Boy Scout and an establishment dope and that Batman will and can kick his ass anytime he damn well pleases, well it is hard for a nobody on the internet like me to change the minds of hearts of people who have been taught by Superman's owners that the way he was from 1938-1986 was lame.

I'm fighting a losing battle here, trying to teach people who have no interest in learning. And I'm not going to get banned for it now that I am being threatened for it. I might drop my 2 cents, and that's it. I'm not a big fan of censorship but I'm not going to push it. Even posting this final rebuttal is more than I should do.

i've criticized the movie a lot here, i dont like a lot of what im seeing. so far this movie doesnt look like any superman i've ever connected with. the difference between the reaction to my posts and to your posts is that my criticisms are generally constructive. yours are closed minded and unproductive and generally offensive to others.

plenty of peoples opinions here come from a very educated point of view. myself included. just because people disagree with you dont mean they're not educated in regards to superman. rather, there are decades and decades of superman material to be inspired by. most people are able to rationally recognize the good and bad of any era. you do not. and you are fanatical and melodramatic about your narrow opinion, borderline paranoid. its annoying.

no one here is even threatening you with banning. posters on these boards, for lack of a better phrase, just want you to stop being a fanatical dick about your opinion. to be honest, when looking at the root of your opinions, i dont often disagree with you. you have legit opinions and concerns and criticisms. but you just bum everyone out because you criticize them for being able to accept a superman beyond what siegel and shuster created.

superman has evolved. and it's a legit superman. a great superman. he's not perfect, though he never was. not even under siegel and shusters direction. but there is so much good in the character that is worth loving. if you cant accept that, if all you're going to do is *****, moan, complain, and take out your frustrations on everyone else, then you cant possibly be surprised when people have a hard time accepting you for it.

despite what you may think, you're not educating anyone. you're not championing superman and his creators. if thats what you think you've accomplished here, you're very very wrong. and its not because people arent open to those ideas. they are. but they're not going to want to hear it from someone who is ranting and raving like an annoying pest.

 

[Rocanrol]

[YT]UPw-3e_pzqU[/YT]

 

[Astrodust]

I'm not crazy either with a lot of the decisions they are making with this movie. I still think however that this can be a great film. From what I heard it's a great script, and Cavill was my number one choice. The rest of the cast feels replaceable to be honest, and the suit is sadly just average. But I don't think any of that will get in the way of me enjoying this film if there is a good balance of story and action. Hopefully Cavill can sell this.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I'll try to be more neutral since if I try to take a stand I piss people off...but regardless, please read and learn all you can!

Oh don't worry I will. I feel like maybe i'll write an essay about it one day if I can - Superman's evolution through the eras.

 

[DKDetective]

I'll try to be more neutral since if I try to take a stand I piss people off...but regardless, please read and learn all you can!

Take a stand all you want. I have no problem with most of your ideas about the character, or his stories, or the importance of certain themes. I've actually been persuaded by some of your arguments about why pre-Crisis Superman's characterization is better and why the post-Crisis iteration isn't true to the character's origin and spirit intended by the creators. Those are often well argued and thoughtful reflections on the character and his substance.

However, the way you talk down to fans who disagree with you is wrong and insult their beliefs or call them not true fans is inappropriate and goes against the rules of these forums. No one here would be posting on these boards if they didn't care about the character. I just ask that you treat others and their opinions with more respect. You'll convince more of us young folks to get interested in the pre-Crisis Superman stories and understand you're preferred version of the character, if you do it nicely and, don't constantly tell us, that the stories we grew up with and got us interested in Superman to begin with are total crap and we're not real fans.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I agree with a lot of what Kuro said. Except for his anti-Objectivist rant on the previous page. I'm an objectivist and Superman is my favorite. He seems to have shunted his problem with Millers writing and DC's decisions into a belief system. Makes me wonder what specific group is next on his list of people who destroy Superman.

 

[MOS]

Superman wouldn't act like some child being told by his parents to do something.

There's no way Superman would ever do any of that crap. DKR was where Superman began to fail, and Byrne's version came from it. I'm so glad Grant Morrison has brought back the original Superman in Action Comics.

I completely agree. No offense to Batman fans, or just fans of DKR in general, but the artist in it is very bad and confusing, all the characters' except for Batman's personalities(especially Superman's) are way off and the story was just confusing and bad. The concept was good, but to me, Batman was never really that important in the first place. I'm really liking the new Grant Morrison Superman, except for the dead Kents and Iron Man suit. Still hoping he evolves to being the all-American superhero of the Silver Age again.

 

[MOS]

Oh, and this is the COSTUME thread, not pre-Crisis vs post-Crisis. Still not a fan of the new MOS suit. I think the suit they would have used in the cancelled Factor 5 video game was perfect.

 

[TheDragonator]

Oh, and this is the thread, not pre- vs post-Crisis. Still not a fan of the new MOS suit. I think the suit they would have used in the cancelled Factor 5 game was perfect.

*googles it*

Holy ****, that looks awesome! How the hell did they not go through with it?

And their Doomsday aint too shabby either.

I mean, sure the colors for Supes are clearly SR based, but the design looks GREAT! IMO, this should've been made.