The Official Flash Thread - Part 2

[The Morningstar]

Yeah, there are a surprising amount of people who don't like good comics.

Or people just don't think Johns writes good comics. I don't think he was written a good story since Sinestro Corps War. His new Flash series is a decompressed mess and his Barry Allen is a dullard. War of the Green Lanterns? haha seriously? It's garbage.

Johns used to be awesome. His JSA was amazing. His first Flash run was great, although he wrote Wally as Barry-lite. But his work on the Rogues was fantastic.

But these days, every single ****ing thing he writes is either an event or a lead in to an event. He's more concerned with "big stories" rather than character work. And when he does do character work, it ends up cliched and the characters end up more like caricatures. His dialogue is just exposition dumping 99% of the time. His characters conversations are not natural. I mean seriously, don't use characters to explain in detail whats going on... SHOW me whats going on.

Then you have his penchant for retcons. Even retconning his own retcons. And his idea of creating drama or tension is the old "Everything you thought you knew is a lie! DUN DUN DUNNN!" trick.

And of course the obscene amounts of gore he throws into his stories. Gleeful use of blood and guts and mutliple rape references doesn't make for mature storytelling.

I don't know what it is, but from Sinestro Corps War onwards, he's been way off his game. Maybe too much on his plate.

But I will say this... I'd take Geoff Johns over Brian Bendis every single time.

 

[Lone]

I always found it funny that they cast a guy who looked like Hal Jordan to play Barry Allen.

Now that you mention it....

 

[Dwarf lord]

Or people just don't think Johns writes good comics. I don't think he was written a good story since Sinestro Corps War. His new Flash series is a decompressed mess and his Barry Allen is a dullard. War of the Green Lanterns? haha seriously? It's garbage.

Johns used to be awesome. His JSA was amazing. His first Flash run was great, although he wrote Wally as Barry-lite. But his work on the Rogues was fantastic.

But these days, every single ****ing thing he writes is either an event or a lead in to an event. He's more concerned with "big stories" rather than character work. And when he does do character work, it ends up cliched and the characters end up more like caricatures. His dialogue is just exposition dumping 99% of the time. His characters conversations are not natural. I mean seriously, don't use characters to explain in detail whats going on... SHOW me whats going on.

Then you have his penchant for retcons. Even retconning his own retcons. And his idea of creating drama or tension is the old "Everything you thought you knew is a lie! DUN DUN DUNNN!" trick.

And of course the obscene amounts of gore he throws into his stories. Gleeful use of blood and guts and mutliple rape references doesn't make for mature storytelling.

I don't know what it is, but from Sinestro Corps War onwards, he's been way off his game. Maybe too much on his plate.

But I will say this... I'd take Geoff Johns over Brian Bendis every single time.

Agreed. I've actually been dusting off a lot of my old comics and I read through JSA: All Stars today and while it's not the most coherent story of all time, it's filled with fantastic little character vignettes. Between when I left comics and when I came back now, all of those character moments were gone in his writing and it was all big event stuff. In fact, it seems like everything he writes is relatively soul-less. It's sad, because he used to be a fantastic writer. And I'm sure he still is. He just needs to be reined in.

And I'm no fan of Bendis' current work (Disassembled, New Avengers and Mighty Avengers) but I will say his Daredevil and Ultimate Spider-Man were some of my favorite books back in the day.

 

[The Morningstar]

Ah yea Bendis more grounded work is cool. But I was talking in terms of big time superhero stuff. I'd take Johns, even current Johns, over Bendis.

 

[Octoberist]

With Johns, his work is just inconsistent because he wears too many hats. So there's always delays or his storiea are unfocused. I actually like his run on te new Lash series but even now leading up to Flashpoint, it's been messy.

 

[The Overlord]

With Johns, his work is just inconsistent because he wears too many hats. So there's always delays or his storiea are unfocused. I actually like his run on te new Lash series but even now leading up to Flashpoint, it's been messy.

Johns still a way better writer then Bendis, at least every character Johns writes doesn't sound like some ironic, 20 something hipster.

 

[Panthro]

With Johns, his work is just inconsistent because he wears too many hats. So there's always delays or his storiea are unfocused. I actually like his run on te new Lash series but even now leading up to Flashpoint, it's been messy.

Perhaps he should let someone else write the Flash then.

And while I'm not a big fan of the constant events that both companies do, I still find myself enjoying DC events more than Marvel events.

 

[NotFadeAway]

So I downloaded the shortlived Flash tv series and I seriously feel that even if WB are uncertain of the character's box office draw, it has great potential as a tv series especially considering how far we've come in SFX.

On a side note, I found it interesting that John Wesley Shipp had a very Ryan Reynolds-y vibe about him in the show.

Wally West's story, I personally feel, is perfect for television.

 

[protocida]

Whoever thinks Johns is unable to write the Flash should read "Flashpoint".

 

[The Morningstar]

I have read Flashpoint. It's just the stereotypical beginning to a Geoff Johns' event. Putting pieces into place in a decompressed, overly simplistic manner, then having a twist/shocking moment at the end.

 

[protocida]

 

[MadVillainy]

Johns is good at writing The Flash...but he hasnt been recently to me

Wally West's story, I personally feel, is perfect for television.

Even though I'd really prefer a movie and I think movie is the way to go. Superspeed is easiest (and maybe the cheapest, Im not sure) superpower to show on TV. In the show No Ordinary Family they were able to pull superspeed off well in almost every episode

 

[Mako]

Wow I just view the poll and I'm a little surprised that Wally as the led, Don't get me wrong I love Wally. I just thought more people would want Barry for the film. BTW I'm not trying to turn this into a Barry vs Wally argument just making an observation

 

[MadVillainy]

I think if you reset the poll Barry will be in the lead

 

[Mako]

I think if you reset the poll Barry will be in the lead

Gotcha.

 

[Timstuff]

Wow I just view the poll and I'm a little surprised that Wally as the led, Don't get me wrong I love Wally. I just thought more people would want Barry for the film. BTW I'm not trying to turn this into a Barry vs Wally argument just making an observation

His lead was significantly larger about a year ago then rebirth came out, but then the Barry fans kind of came out of hibernation. Still, makes me glad that Wally still has such a strong following even with Johns treating him as second rate lately.

 

[The Morningstar]

Either deal with it, or try to counter my points.

Sorry to say it, but not everyone is a Geoff Johns brown noser.

 

[The Morningstar]

Wow I just view the poll and I'm a little surprised that Wally as the led, Don't get me wrong I love Wally. I just thought more people would want Barry for the film. BTW I'm not trying to turn this into a Barry vs Wally argument just making an observation

More people would want a character with zero personality and whose most memorable moment was dying? There is a reason the guy was dead for almost quarter of a century

 

[Timstuff]

Wally was The Flash almost as long as Barry Allen was. IMO it's because he's got more personality and stands out more in the modern Superhero landscape. He's not the stereotypical meathead do-right father figure character like most of the old superheroes were. He's more like Spider-Man, in that he's a young guy who deals with as much drama out of costume as he does when he's wearing it. Young adult readers identify with Wally a lot more than Barry, and it's because Barry is like reading about their father, but Wally is like reading about themselves. The whole "reading about your father vs. reading about yourself" phenomena is why Marvel outsold DC for the longest time, and it wasn't until DC rectified this that they caught up.

Geoff Johns did a good job of making Hal more relatable vs. his silver age counterpart, and it looks like the movie is going to take that a step further. However, I am not convinced that Johns can do the same with Barry Allen. He still seems like a much more boring character than Wally West, and Johns' attempt to bring more personality to the character have been through retcons which STILL don't solve the inherent problem of Barry coming across as a boring father figure rather than the hip speedster that Wally is.

 

[MadVillainy]

More people would want a character with zero personality and whose most memorable moment was dying? There is a reason the guy was dead for almost quarter of a century

While I don't like Barry, I think the poll has changed because of Barry coming back. I remember Wally was in a larger lead before Barry came back. I dont really think it is about character preference , because Ive seen people say they prefer Wally but Barry should be Flash, it's more about whose the current Flash

 

[Karelia]

I always thought Wally West was awesome, thanks to the Justice League cartoon. But once I read "The Flash: Rebirth" I became a fan of Barry. I'm glad they went with Barry, if they want to introduce Wally later on, that'll be awesome.

This has probably been discussed, but who else thinks it's a possibility the suit might be CGI like Green Lantern's?

 

[JAK®]

This has probably been discussed, but who else thinks it's a possibility the suit might be CGI like Green Lantern's?

I don't think it's a possibility. I think while WB managed to make it work for Green Lantern the initial backlash will make them reconsider going that route again.

It's also unnecessary. Just take the approach of the Spider-Man costume. The Flash has a great costume.

 

[protocida]

I'd understand if Wally's costume was CGI, since it us pure Speed Force, but Barry's costume is "real", so, I don't think they'll go for the CGI route.

 

[Karelia]

I'd understand if Wally's costume was CGI, since it us pure Speed Force, but Barry's costume is "real", so, I don't think they'll go for the CGI route.

I guess the reason I was thinking that, is because his suit comes out of a ring. I always found that a little odd. I guess they could do away with the ring, though.

I'd love to see a real costume opposed to CGI, btw. I think it really only works in the case of GL out of most super heroes.

I thought the armor suit he had in the DC Universe Online trailer was pretty sweet looking too.

 

[Panthro]

Wally was The Flash almost as long as Barry Allen was. IMO it's because he's got more personality and stands out more in the modern Superhero landscape. He's not the stereotypical meathead do-right father figure character like most of the old superheroes were. He's more like Spider-Man, in that he's a young guy who deals with as much drama out of costume as he does when he's wearing it. Young adult readers identify with Wally a lot more than Barry, and it's because Barry is like reading about their father, but Wally is like reading about themselves. The whole "reading about your father vs. reading about yourself" phenomena is why Marvel outsold DC for the longest time, and it wasn't until DC rectified this that they caught up.

That is quite probably the truth - and I don't hate Barry's character by any means, just have mixed feelings about him being back (and the shabby treatment of Wally - the irony of course being that when Barry died way back when & Wally replaced him some fans undoubtedly felt Barry got screwed).

Geoff Johns did a good job of making Hal more relatable vs. his silver age counterpart, and it looks like the movie is going to take that a step further. However, I am not convinced that Johns can do the same with Barry Allen. He still seems like a much more boring character than Wally West, and Johns' attempt to bring more personality to the character have been through retcons which STILL don't solve the inherent problem of Barry coming across as a boring father figure rather than the hip speedster that Wally is.

I think some fans were going to dislike Barry and his overall return regardless of whether it was Johns writing it or Grant Morrison or whoever. Admittedly, the return of Barry doesn't have the same story potential that the return of Hal offered - Hal at least you could do a guilt ridden redemption angle with, Barry not so much.