The Official Flash Thread - Part 2

[ChickenScratch]

That makes no sense.




Superspeed doesn't have to be this physically impossible, bad scifi concept. That stuff was ok fifty years ago, because most people simply didn't know better. But now, no.

I don't see why you think of him running at the speed of sound as a a major de-powering. If you think a little, that's still very fast. If a red object moves past you at 340m/s, it's still going to look like nothing more than a red motion bur. The big problem, bigger than the fact that the speed force and his super-superpowers make no scientific sense, is that the odds that the writer manage to use them without making major plot holes. If the Flash has the ability to move through objects, move at relative velocities, "control every molecule in his body", then he's basically God. perhaps he struggles to control it to that degree, but he's still got the power to destroy the planet. And we, imo, don't need that for a film.

No, you are wrong. I a fully capable to suspend my disbelief for incredible elements, but they have to make sense. They have to work logically with the film and the universe.




Uhm, you pretty much put the word HORRIBLE WRITING in my mouth here..



Whil I, obviously, don't think the speed force needs to be involved at all, I very much think they should lampshade the accident. Let the audience's mind fill the gaps.

It doesn't matter about relative speed here. What matter is it's written as him going that fast and it's his powerset. Superman flying is crazy, would you rather he not in the movies?

You should read some Flash.

 

[Franny]

What with some of you' folks!? Physics!!! We're talking comic book fantasy here! What's with this rein it in' business. I simply enjoy the writers imagination' not attempt to apply real science to it. Now that's silly. It's make believe' soar with it, don't attempt to rationalize it.

 

[Edguy]

I see we just thoroughly disagree. When a story starts fumbling with concepts the writers don't understand, that totally kills it for me. That's the reason I never got into most of the scifi-ier comics. But I love the character, mostly from the animated series, and really want to see a good Flash movie,.

I just think grounding the Flash would be good for the Film(s).

I'm the kind of guy who's biggest problems with TDKR was how JGL could stare at a nuclear detonation without frying his face, let alone keeping his eyesight, or how Selina could blow away ten tonnes of rubble with a batpod rocket, and then get a perfectly fine passage, so I think you can understand why much of the Flash mythos bothers me.

 

[Franny]

Yeah' can understand Edguy, just we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's hope we'll get a Flash feature' we both will like! :-D

 

[Airwings]

If you people could choose between Trickster and Weather Wizard, what villain do you people prefer for live action?

Superspeed doesn't have to be this physically impossible, bad scifi concept. That stuff was ok fifty years ago, because most people simply didn't know better. But now, no.

What about Superman and Green Lantern, do they make sense?
If Justice League should be scientific accurate, there would be no superheroes at all.

 

[metaphysician]

Then they work whichever way they want it to.

No, this is not true. The writers can define the rules, yes, but if they define the rules such that they are contradictory, then no, it doesn't work.

Basically, the writers are not beholden to reality, but they are beholden to logic. The Flash can't be capable of something, and then suddenly not capable for no reason.

 

[SlamAdams]

No, this is not true. The writers can define the rules, yes, but if they define the rules such that they are contradictory, then no, it doesn't work.

Basically, the writers are not beholden to reality, but they are beholden to logic. The Flash can't be capable of something, and then suddenly not capable for no reason.

Thats what I mean. They are beholden only to their own version of reality.

 

[Edguy]

No, this is not true. The writers can define the rules, yes, but if they define the rules such that they are contradictory, then no, it doesn't work.

Basically, the writers are not beholden to reality, but they are beholden to logic. The Flash can't be capable of something, and then suddenly not capable for no reason.

Exactly. And the problem with the most out-there powers/abilities, are that they are hard to make logical. Like I said, I have no problems with things being unrealistic, it just can't stand faulty logic.

 

[SlamAdams]

Exactly. And the problem with the most out-there powers/abilities, are that they are hard to make logical. Like I said, I have no problems with things being unrealistic, it just can't stand faulty logic.

But I don't understand what constitutes faulty logic in this situation for you. There is NO logical way for any of these things to work, so however the writers in any medium decide to define them will be the pseudo-logic they will have to follow. So whether its the Speed Force or whatever kind of physics you tried to apply to his super powers, they both should work since the logic is self-contained to the work of fiction.

 

[Kevin Smith]

^^ This.

 

[Edguy]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the meaning of the word logic. Realism =/= logic.

For example, if the flash has some sort of aura that can protect him against friction, air resistance and kinetic impacts, why does he take damage from most attacks?

 

[SlamAdams]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the meaning of the word logic. Realism =/= logic.

For example, if the flash has some sort of aura that can protect him against friction, air resistance and kinetic impacts, why does he take damage from most attacks?

This is the kind of stuff your are arguing? You must dislike all action movies. Like the ones where the good guy jumps through a glass window and doesnt come out the other side a bloody mess. Or the ones where the hero gets shot in the arm and still fights the badguy. You are correct. These things don't make sense. I made peace with them a long time ago.

 

[Edguy]

This is the kind of stuff your are arguing? You must dislike all action movies. Like the ones where the good guy jumps through a glass window and doesnt come out the other side a bloody mess. Or the ones where the hero gets shot in the arm and still fights the badguy. You are correct. These things don't make sense. I made peace with them a long time ago.

You are still confusing logic with realism..

But no, I'm not a big fan of generic action movies

 

[terry78]

We're slowly edging into "I wanted to say, what if the Flash really existed in our world?" territory.

 

[SlamAdams]

You are still confusing logic with realism..

I already said you are correct. What more do you want me to do?

But no, I'm not a big fan of generic action movies

Why you rolling your eyes at me?

 

[Franny]

Guys' pack it in. Let's all just get along. We all like the same thing.

 

[Zionite1]

I think this is an issue that needs to be handled at the writing stage, before you even think of how to portray his speed. You need to decide how fast he is, and then figure out "how can I challenge this?"

The biggest consequence is, virtually all the Flash rogues? Can't be used as primary villains, because the audience will only buy the barest level of challenge from them. You need either a speedster, or a serious superhuman who can counter speed ( Grodd or Abrakadabra ), or maybe the Trickster in "speed can't deal with my plan" mode.

Easy.Give all the Rogues an ability that allows them to fight evenly with Superspeed.I vote teleporatation

 

[metaphysician]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the meaning of the word logic. Realism =/= logic.

For example, if the flash has some sort of aura that can protect him against friction, air resistance and kinetic impacts, why does he take damage from most attacks?

Actually, there are two explanations. One is that the "speed aura" is tied to his speed, and isn't present when he's not moving. Thus, any kind of surprise attack against a stationary Flash is just as effective as against a normal human ( give or take the "I feel a bullet touch the back of my neck, and move out of the way before it finishes bending the hairs" issue ).

The second is that he doesn't really have a *protection* against friction and air resistance damage, so much as he has a power that prevents them from applying in the first place. Think about it, if he were subject to air resistance, then he would be surrounded by a giant mass of burning hot air and shockwaves all the time. Even if he were resistant to the heat and such, his surroundings aren't, and would be totally destroyed. So, obviously, his powers don't work that way. . . which means that an attack that *doesn't* work via friction or air resistance? Can still hurt him just fine, even if its raw firepower is less than the amount of friction heat you'd expect a mach 100 ( or whatever ) human to generate.

 

[Edguy]

I already said you are correct. What more do you want me to do?

Why you rolling your eyes at me?

Chill, I'm not trying to insult you or anything, I probably just misinterpreted your post or something, and wanted to get my point through.

And the rolling ayes are directed towards generic action movies, not you

 

[Kevin Smith]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the meaning of the word logic. Realism =/= logic.

For example, if the flash has some sort of aura that can protect him against friction, air resistance and kinetic impacts, why does he take damage from most attacks?

It only kicks in when he is in "speed mode" and moving. When he's moving pretty much nothing can touch him and he's practically invincible. In the comics he'd also phase through things while running.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Adam Brody talks about being cast as Barry Allen/The Flash and Anton Yelchin as Wally West in Justice League: Mortal in this podcast here with Kevin Smith (the real KS lol). Good stuff. I think he was far from the worst out of that cast. It's funny how he started dating Teresa Palmer after he met her on this project, IMO, lol. Least some good came out of it right? Haha.

Anyway he talks about what the costume was like and things....said it looked like The Flash of the comic books, and there were no lenses or whatever covering his eyes. He said it was like a prototype of what he was supposed to wear so who knows what the end result may have been. He just said it was red and that the ear pices or "wings" they wanted to make bigger. He said there wasn't any like rubber muscles or anything but they were going to do something to make his legs bigger because he had skinny legs lol. He also talks about some plot points in the script, and talked about another draft they did real quick before the writer's strike where they threw everything into it and that would have been the "shooting script" but they needed a rewrite on it, but he praised the first draft (which I have read and is not bad, just needs some minor changes and one or two major ones with the third act) and said it was "perfect". Also compared the type of film they were going for/the tone of it with Abrams Star Trek movie and possibly Transformers, which is a totally fair comparison, IMO, I also got that vibe from it when I read the script.

He also talks about the backlash some of the cast got (namely Armie Hammer as Batman), it's pretty funny, and how the cast was never officially announced by WB, and how because of that there was always a sense that they could be replaced or it could have been up in the air. He said no sets were built but he saw a lot of the work WETA did. It was pretty awesome how open to talking about JLA he was. I'd have loved to have asked some questions haha. Seems like a pretty chill guy.

This is a great listen and provides some good insight into the JLA film that could have been. Adam also seems like a pretty cool guy...a part of me will always wish that that JLA film (with some rewrites and some of the cast changed, namely Flash sacrificing himself at the end, Barry stole the show all throughout and I have a feeling audiences would have really liked him in this, it doesn't make sense to kill the most popular character, but I get it tho...other gripe is that the cast was already pretty young and Flash in the movie was already pretty young so at the end of the movie we have an even younger) young Flash who's barely in his mid teens, but that's my personal opinion) had happened.

Here's the link in case nobody ever saw this...it's from back in July of 2011, I just came across it today, so if someone already posted it here I apologize. I enjoyed the podcast...it's the first 20 or so minutes on there.

http://smodcast.com/episodes/best-of-per-diem-july-5-8-2011/

 

[terry78]

I could also see Justin Theroux as Captain Cold.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Kevin Smith- cool podcast for sure. Thanks dude

 

[Kevin Smith]

^^ Welcome bro

 

[Kevin Smith]

Reverse Flash's redesigned New 52 comic look:

It's not bad. I like how it looks there. Wonder if that would translate better to film than the original look for some people.