The Official Flash Thread

[KELLEL]

No, no, no, you guys have got it all twisted. Barry Allen is the best Flash in so many ways, he had the best secret identity, job/occupation, supporting cast, villains, most original story, had the most abilities as Flash, and was the smartest Flash, not to mention the most powerful. Remember, it was ONLY Barry Allen who was fast enough to stop the Anti Monitor, he was the only one who could stop it because he was literally the fastest thing to ever exist. If he weren't they coulda got Wally or Jay to do it.

Most of you probably don't know enough about Barry Allen to determine whether you like him or not and are in favor of Wally West because he's the one you grew up with or the one off the JL/JLU cartoons. The Flash on the JL/JLU show is a HYBRID of three different Flashes. Timm and CO used the name and likeness (appearance) of Wally West but merged his personality with Impulse's to make him the token funny guy but they gave him Barry Allen's enemies, supporting cast, had him come from CENTRAL CITY instead of where Wally is from, Keystone city and even gave him Barry's ORIGIN and job and established that he was the only Flash. The only thing they didn't give him of Barry's was the vibration ability. A big part of the reason why they have so much of Barry mixed in with Wally is because they weren't sure which one they would use until the end of season 2 of justice league. So that explains why so Wally West on the show is from Central City instead of Keystone City, has Barry's enemies and his job, is the only existing Flash (like Barry used to be minus Jay), etc., but has Wally's name and likeness. Like I sadi, the producers weren't sure if they wanted Wally or Barry, they knew they had more story range and villains and less baggage if they used Barry, but knew that Wally was the Flash in the current comics so it'd be "best" if they meshed what they thought were the best things about Barry into Wally's character for their show to make a Flash that "everyone" would like who's story was easy to follow, so there would be something for Barry fans AND Wally fans.

So if they would've done Wally West how he is in the comics on the show without adding SO much of Barry Allen into him then he would not have been as popular a character and would've been very confusing and hard to follow for newcomers and probably wouldn't be a "fan favorite" right now if they hadn't added the Barry Allen story elements in with Wally.

Wally West's tory depends SO much on Barry Allen's that it would be impossible to tell Wally's story without including Barry Allen. Can you imagine how the producers would've tried to explain all that to new comers? they'd have been like: "Well, police scientist Barry Allen was hit by lightning one night in his lab and got super speed powers and became the first Flash and fought all these villains and eventually 'died' saving the world, but the Flash on our show is actually his nephew, who, before Barry died, was on a tour of barry's lab and 'coincidentially' got hit by lightning in the same way Barry did and got the 'same' powers Barry did and became his uncle's (Flash) crime fighting sidekick Kid Flash but when his uncle died he became the new Flash and fights Barry's old enemies but has a different job every other week unlike Barry who was always a police scientist." That is SO much more dificult than "This is the Flash, his name is Barry Allen and he was hit by lightning and now he's the Flash, he's the only one (in our Universe)."

So THAT's why Barry's the best Flash and they should use him. He's original, easy to follow, and NOT the second or tird living in one's shadow.

I hope Barry returns in FINAL CRISIS, I've missed him these past 20 years and am tired of reading about crappy second raters who are the equivelant of Kyle rayner, Guy Gardner, and John Stewart. I want the real deal, Barry Allen again, what Hal Jordan is to the GL mythos he is for the Flash saga. Wally West will always be Kid Flash to me just like Dick Grason will always be robin to me and I'll be ticked if they make him the new Batman al la the Flash treatment.

Is it possible Barry will return to stay as a hero, not a villan for good in FC? I hope so. We live in a time where comics characters that nobody liked or cared about and should've STAYED dead are being ressurected constantly, like Jason Todd and Bucky Barnes of all people! So WHY can't DC bring back a guy that EVERYONE seemed to like and is actually WORTH a damn?? A great character who's story is being mixed in with the current Flash in other mediums and at the same time being forgotten and will remain unfamiliar ith the next gen of fans.

But DC and Didio like to screw with Barry fans. They teased his return in the other Crisis books and the Lightning Saga and brought back frickin' Kid Flash limited Wally West as Flash instead of the real deal AGAIN. So will Barry be back in FC? Or will he be back long enough to spit just so he can save us in this Crisis and die again or will they bring him back, but as a VILLAIN (which would suck and I'd shoot DC) or will it be Jay or wally who die in FC or will Bart be back or will we really, REALLY get the REAL DEAL, Barry Allen back this time?

I hope Didio and crew won't crap us out this time or bring him back with strings attached. I hope they actually bring him back for good this time.

THAT is the question. Will he return? I hope so.

 

[The Major]

Barry Allen is the best Flash in so many ways, he had the best secret identity, job/occupation, supporting cast, villains,

That's your opinion not a fact.

most original story,

True.

had the most abilities as Flash,

Are you sure about that? Wally has pretty much mastered the Speed Force these days.

Has Barry made a solid speed suit with it?

Use Infinite Force Punches (running several times at top speed around the earth to build momentum) to K.O. Superman class beings?

Stolen speed from objects and people turning them into statues?

Subconsciously activated his super speed to dodge a bullet he wasn't even sure was there?

Lending super-speed to people?

Using super speed to boost his natural healing to fix any injuries in seconds?

Wally can do all that and more.

and was the smartest Flash,

Barry's up there with being the smartest Flash but I'd say max Mercury knew more about the Speed Force then he did.

not to mention the most powerful.

Debatable.

Remember, it was ONLY Barry Allen who was fast enough to stop the Anti Monitor, he was the only one who could stop it because he was literally the fastest thing to ever exist. If he weren't they coulda got Wally or Jay to do it.

It's not like Wally was an option at the time. His powers were slowly killing him every time he used them, had no confidence in himself being virtually retired from super-heroing due to his powers acting up and wasn't captured by the Anti-Monitor to be in the right location and the same time to stop the Anti-Matter Cannon.

The only reason he was there was to die. His title was getting cancelled DC wanted to get rid of him. They could have written in any other speedster, including Jay, for it but DC wanted them alive after Crisis.

Don't even remember Jesse Quick, XS or Max even appearing in Crisis. Bit difficult to do anything if the writer doesn't want to use you for a story.

If he weren't they coulda got Wally or Jay to do it.

The only reason he was there was to die. His title was getting cancelled DC wanted to get rid of him. They could have written in any other speedster, including Jay, for it but DC wanted them alive after Crisis.

Already explained why Wally couldn't do it.

The only thing they didn't give him of Barry's was the vibration ability.

Wally's had that for years.

So THAT's why Barry's the best Flash and they should use him. He's original, easy to follow, and NOT the second or tird living in one's shadow.

He's not living in anyone's shadow. Everyone's living in Barry's.

I hope Barry returns in FINAL CRISIS, I've missed him these past 20 years and am tired of reading about crappy second raters who are the equivelant of Kyle rayner, Guy Gardner, and John Stewart. I want the real deal, Barry Allen again, what Hal Jordan is to the GL mythos he is for the Flash saga. Wally West will always be Kid Flash to me just like Dick Grason will always be robin to me and I'll be ticked if they make him the new Batman al la the Flash treatment.

Barry did more of the Flash legacy dead then alive. He had one of the best deaths in comics ever. Why ruin that?

Why don't you like Wally or the other Flashes?

Is it possible Barry will return to stay as a hero, not a villan for good in FC? I hope so. We live in a time where comics characters that nobody liked or cared about and should've STAYED dead are being ressurected constantly, like Jason Todd and Bucky Barnes of all people! So WHY can't DC bring back a guy that EVERYONE seemed to like and is actually WORTH a damn?? A great character who's story is being mixed in with the current Flash in other mediums and at the same time being forgotten and will remain unfamiliar ith the next gen of fans.

Bucky only worked because Marvel did a great job executing it and gave him a niche within the universe. Brubaker had a plan which allowed Bucky to be relevant. Unless DC does the same to Barry it'll be Jason Todd all over again.

No reason why DC can't give him an All-Star Flash. It'll keep the fans who want new Barry stories happy and the Wally fans won't have to worry about him getting overshadowed.

 

[protocida]

Jay appeard in ''Crisis''.

He was on Earth-two, and where convoced by Superman E2 to use the cosmic steer with Wally and open a portal to Anti-Monitor's fortress on space.

 

[M.O.Steel]

i like em all. but i don't mind the idea of the JLA/JLU where all three are combined into wally west, taking the best of every part.

 

[protocida]

Agreed.

 

[M.O.Steel]

Although my allegiance is with Barry Allen because i grew up watching the 90s flash Tv series. I also think that should be the costume, minus the obvious fake muscles

 

[KELLEL]

"Are you sure about that? Wally has pretty much mastered the Speed Force these days.

Has Barry made a solid speed suit with it?

Use Infinite Force Punches (running several times at top speed around the earth to build momentum) to K.O. Superman class beings?

Stolen speed from objects and people turning them into statues?

Subconsciously activated his super speed to dodge a bullet he wasn't even sure was there?

Lending super-speed to people?

Using super speed to boost his natural healing to fix any injuries in seconds?

Wally can do all that and more. "


Dude, they didn't even come up with the speed force concept until AFTER Barry's "demise". If Barry were still around in the nineties he woulda been doing that too.


"Wally's had that for years."

Wrong. First of all, I was referring to the cartoon, and secondly, no he hasn't. Everytime he tries to do it things explode = he doesn't have that ability.


"He's not living in anyone's shadow. Everyone's living in Barry's."

EXACTLY! That's what I said.



"Barry did more of the Flash legacy dead then alive. He had one of the best deaths in comics ever. Why ruin that?"

I disagree with that first statement, but I agree that he did have the best death in comics.

And I answered that Q in my previous post.


"Why don't you like Wally or the other Flashes? "

I never said I didn't. I happen to think Barry's the best and like him best. Wally's my second fave, just like John's my second fave GL.


"No reason why DC can't give him an All-Star Flash. It'll keep the fans who want new Barry stories happy and the Wally fans won't have to worry about him getting overshadowed."

If they won't bring Barry back and even if they do, that's still a GREAT idea. An ALL STAR FLASH about Barry Allen would be wonderful. I LOVE that idea. I hope they do that one day. ...and a GL about Hal would be sweet too and so would a Silver Age JLA All Star book.

 

[KELLEL]

Although my allegiance is with Barry Allen because i grew up watching the 90s flash Tv series. I also think that should be the costume, minus the obvious fake muscles

My thoughts exactly on the suit. I missed the gold boots tho and want them in JLA. But if they aren't in it and they do red boots again, I want gold trim on the boots like his gloves and waist areas.

 

[KELLEL]

i like em all. but i don't mind the idea of the JLA/JLU where all three are combined into wally west, taking the best of every part.

I thought the hybrid thing, at the end of the day was a good idea too. Wally wouldn't have worked on the show without the Barry elements and if they weren't gonna do Barry first then that was the only way they coulda done Wally.

I hope that the Barry Allen in the JLA film is like the one from New frontier.

 

[M.O.Steel]

My thoughts exactly on the suit. I missed the gold boots tho and want them in JLA. But if they aren't in it and they do red boots again, I want gold trim on the boots like his gloves and waist areas.

They could make is a very very very dark gold, so that it kinda still looks liek the dark red. I actaully thought that was the case, i don't remember the show that well, it's been a while.

 

[protocida]

I Thot in that (Putting ''lightnings'' on red boots) too.

 

[Flash Facts]

I thought the hybrid thing, at the end of the day was a good idea too. Wally wouldn't have worked on the show without the Barry elements and if they weren't gonna do Barry first then that was the only way they coulda done Wally.

I hope that the Barry Allen in the JLA film is like the one from New frontier.

I really disagree with that. The Barry elements didn't even show up into after the character had been well established. You said it yourself that it wasn't even known which Flash it would be until the end of season 2.

 

[protocida]

It was Wally all long.

 

[Webhead2006]

Well yes it was wally all along but we didnt know for sure it was him untill the season 2 finale.

 

[The Guard]

Wally's the most interesting and well rounded version of The Flash. But that's partially because writers realized they had to seperate him from Barry, and gave him most of Barry's elements, plus his own.

And that's ok. The student surpassing the master, and so forth.

 

[protocida]

True. But Barry still owns! His lidership on Justice League was great.

 

[KELLEL]

I really disagree with that. The Barry elements didn't even show up into after the character had been well established. You said it yourself that it wasn't even known which Flash it would be until the end of season 2.

That's true, most of season one could have been Barry OR Wally, but if you paid close attention to some of the episodes you will definitely see some of the Barry elements. For instance, in the episode "Brave and Bold" Flash is going thru all these hallucinations and there is a scene that is supposed to suggest his origin and shows him being hit by lightning and then they have a scene where he grows into all sorts of different shapes and sizes and one of the things that happens to him is he gets a HUGE head, a direct reference to the issue of the Flash with Green Lantern from the sixties (forget which issue) where he had the huge head on the cover. But, Wally got his powers the same way Barry did, they didn't show much more like where he was and what he looked like and etc, so it could've been either.

But after season two there were more Barry elements added, even tho they used the name and likeness of Wally West.

 

[KELLEL]

They could make is a very very very dark gold, so that it kinda still looks liek the dark red. I actaully thought that was the case, i don't remember the show that well, it's been a while.

I get your idea, but than what's the point of even having the gold trim to contrast the red then? I want to see a nice, red with gold trim Flash suit, and the gold lightning bolt on his chest across the white circle must have three strokes instead of two like the JL/JLU show's suit.

 

[KELLEL]

Wally's the most interesting and well rounded version of The Flash. But that's partially because writers realized they had to seperate him from Barry, and gave him most of Barry's elements, plus his own.

And that's ok. The student surpassing the master, and so forth.

I don't think he's the most interesting, I find him very second rate, like John Stewart or Kyle Rayner, or Gardner even. And he certainly isn't the most well rounded Flash, Barry was. He was original and wasn't living in anyone's shadow, al la a second rater. But I like Wally tho, just not as much as I like Barry.

I think Anton Yelchin is a perfect choice for Wally West/ Kid Flash in JLA. Adam Brody as Flash/Barry Allen is OK, I'm warming up to him. not as bad as the much rumored 5' 9' Cotrona as Superman and 6' 5' Hammertime as Batman.

 

[Webhead2006]

Well we never really knew for sure if anton was even in the running. And Brody was the only name ever really talked about and he was most likely wally and not barry.

 

[M.O.Steel]

I get your idea, but than what's the point of even having the gold trim to contrast the red then? I want to see a nice, red with gold trim Flash suit, and the gold lightning bolt on his chest across the white circle must have three strokes instead of two like the JL/JLU show's suit.

oh no, i meant just the boots. The rest of the trimmings should be bright gold. Someone was just saying that gold boots would look weird and cheesy, so that was my suggestion.

something like this...

 

[M.O.Steel]

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br2hXBhgLVY[/YT]

 

[The Guard]

I don't think he's the most interesting, I find him very second rate, like John Stewart or Kyle Rayner, or Gardner even. And he certainly isn't the most well rounded Flash, Barry was. He was original and wasn't living in anyone's shadow, al la a second rater. But I like Wally tho, just not as much as I like Barry.

How much Wally West Flash have you read? That animated JUSTICE LEAGUE Flash...that's about the lamest, most shallow portrayal of Wally West you will ever see. He's second rate because he wears a similar costume? I don't get that logic. He's still a fascinating character, and writers have done impressive things with him over the years. Wally West considers Barry Allen's "shadow" a legacy, and that gives him another element to his character, making him again, more interesting. You can sit there and list all the things Barry has going for him, and except for the scientific elements, Wally has had them at one point or another. Now, are those things built from what Barry was? Sure, but again, there are few elements Barry Allen possessed that Wally West now doesn't.

 

[KELLEL]

How much Wally West Flash have you read? That animated JUSTICE LEAGUE Flash...that's about the lamest, most shallow portrayal of Wally West you will ever see. He's second rate because he wears a similar costume? I don't get that logic. He's still a fascinating character, and writers have done impressive things with him over the years. Wally West considers Barry Allen's "shadow" a legacy, and that gives him another element to his character, making him again, more interesting. You can sit there and list all the things Barry has going for him, and except for the scientific elements, Wally has had them at one point or another. Now, are those things built from what Barry was? Sure, but again, there are few elements Barry Allen possessed that Wally West now doesn't.[/quote

I read quite a bit of Wally, including the current book and Johns work.

And I didn't say he was second rate because of the costume, I certainly don't think that.

But that's the thing about Wally, he is secondtier, he wasn't the first Flash as we know him (excludes cancelled versions like Garrick) which makes him unoriginal and without Barry he has no story, Wally's world (LOL!) depends so much on Barry. It's like reading a story where Dick Grayson is the new Batman cuz BW is dead. It's not the real deal. Everything that Wally is is built on barry, and if there is no Barry than there is no Wally.

 

[KELLEL]

Well we never really knew for sure if anton was even in the running. And Brody was the only name ever really talked about and he was most likely wally and not barry.

It was confirmed that the Flash in JLA was Barry when the first fourteen pages of the script were revealed last year and last summer WB coinfirmed in Variety that the Flash was Barry Allen, the youngest member on the team who's a police scientist with a ravenous appetite and a crush on WW. He is also married to Iris West in the film, played by Zoe Kazan.

Least that's the way it was last we heard anything official.

And we do know that both Barry AND Wally as Flash and Kid Flash are indeed in it, they've been described, along with the fights between Superman, Batman, and WW as one of the highlights of the film.

Bring it on I say.