Comics The Official GAMBIT Discussion thread

[katie_girl09]

In an sad twist of irony, Carey's the only comic book writer that seems to want anything to do with Gambit right now, and even he uses him as little more than set up for Rogue.

I know. But even so, I'd be willing to wait another 10 years for someone who understands his character to write about his origins. I would rather it not be done at all than have someone like Carey do it.

Im VERY frustrated at the lack of Gambit within the books. As someone who has only recently converted to being a fan of his, it sucks that it comes at a time where he's barely used.

You always have the old comics. That's mostly what I'm reading now.

 

[Neptune]

10 years is way too long for me. I mean, COME ON! Those writers are all professionals and have to at least understand the characters even though they may not like all of them. How is it possible that not a single one of them can write a good arc for Gambit without Rogue being a part of it and without him being out of character?

Carey tried it, it wasn't bad but it wasn't great either. And yeah the origin story was a bit of a letdown. I still don't like that Gambit supposedly didn't know the Marauders were gonna massacre the Morlocks. If his big bad secret is that he lead the Marauders to the Morlock tunnels then at least make it really bad. Gambit should have known exactly what the Marauders were up to. The massacre would have much more impact on him because it would have been a real turning point for him after seeing the consequences of his actions. Now it's just him doing something semi bad without knowing it while having good intentions. That's not bad ass Marvel!

 

[EvilClareToo]

10 years is way too long for me. I mean, COME ON! Those writers are all professionals and have to at least understand the characters even though they may not like all of them. How is it possible that not a single one of them can write a good arc for Gambit without Rogue being a part of it and without him being out of character?

Carey tried it, it wasn't bad but it wasn't great either. And yeah the origin story was a bit of a letdown. I still don't like that Gambit supposedly didn't know the Marauders were gonna massacre the Morlocks. If his big bad secret is that he lead the Marauders to the Morlock tunnels then at least make it really bad. Gambit should have known exactly what the Marauders were up to. The massacre would have much more impact on him because it would have been a real turning point for him after seeing the consequences of his actions. Now it's just him doing something semi bad without knowing it while having good intentions. That's not bad ass Marvel!

I agree, Neptune! I mean, he is still going on about his guilt from "creating" the Marauders and what happened in the Morlock tunnels, but FFS, he really didn't do anything so BAD to warrent such a guilt trip or the hatred of the X Men during the whole Antartica fiasco. I mean, members like Wolverine and Rogue have done things in their past that were just as bad or worse. To warrent such a reaction, the writers should have really put a BIG skeleton in his closet, such as you mentioned, making him fully aware of what was going on with the Marauders or something along those lines. (BTW, it wasn't Carey who came up with that-that was already a cannon back story from the 90's)

 

[iamlegend]

I agree, Neptune! I mean, he is still going on about his guilt from "creating" the Marauders and what happened in the Morlock tunnels, but FFS, he really didn't do anything so BAD to warrent such a guilt trip or the hatred of the X Men during the whole Antartica fiasco. I mean, members like Wolverine and Rogue have done things in their past that were just as bad or worse. To warrent such a reaction, the writers should have really put a BIG skeleton in his closet, such as you mentioned, making him fully aware of what was going on with the Marauders or something along those lines. (BTW, it wasn't Carey who came up with that-that was already a cannon back story from the 90's)

To Neptune: I don't think Marvel could have had the character actually sanction what the Marauders were doing. I mean, having Gambit actually know he was putting together a death squad that was going to slaughter countless mutants would have been something that they couldn't have plausibly had him come back from completely without destroying the characters credibility (think about how many times they've had Magneto go from insane psychopath to semi-good. I don't want to see that with Gambit).

To EvilClare: Any Gambit fans knows how much he's gotten the shaft in terms of his past actions. The X-Men have condoned all kinds of murderers/criminals/psychopaths over the years, yet still seem inclined to throw this in Gambit's face.

 

[squeekness]

I agree, Neptune! I mean, he is still going on about his guilt from "creating" the Marauders and what happened in the Morlock tunnels, but FFS, he really didn't do anything so BAD to warrent such a guilt trip or the hatred of the X Men during the whole Antartica fiasco. I mean, members like Wolverine and Rogue have done things in their past that were just as bad or worse. To warrent such a reaction, the writers should have really put a BIG skeleton in his closet, such as you mentioned, making him fully aware of what was going on with the Marauders or something along those lines. (BTW, it wasn't Carey who came up with that-that was already a cannon back story from the 90's)

Exactly. Gambit knew it was going to be bad, just not HOW bad. Plus he owed Sinister big time. He thought maybe some folks might get roughed up a bit -- Sinister wanting DNA samples and all -- but he didn't expect them to be outright slaughtered.

 

[Neptune]

To Neptune: I don't think Marvel could have had the character actually sanction what the Marauders were doing. I mean, having Gambit actually know he was putting together a death squad that was going to slaughter countless mutants would have been something that they couldn't have plausibly had him come back from completely without destroying the characters credibility (think about how many times they've had Magneto go from insane psychopath to semi-good. I don't want to see that with Gambit).

So what you're saying is they don't have the balls to actually make Gambit do something bad. Why can't they not have him sanction what the Marauders were doing? The only reason he assembled and lead them to the Morlocks is because he owed Sinister. It's not like he wanted the Morlocks dead himself. The massacre would have been a real wake up call for the otherwise selfish Gambit. This was supposed to be the big secret that haunted him even worse than the other things he did in his past.

 

[EvilClareToo]

I think they should have written it as that Gambit was given the choice, to go along with the Marauders plan and be free of his deal with Sinister or be beholden to Sinister for an indefinite amount of time. He could have chosen the coward's (and selfish) way out by leading the Marauders into the tunnels and just sitting back and letting the slaughter happened instead of trying to stop it. That would warrent the obsessive guilt and the X Men's hatred that he has suffered at the hand of Marvel writers. They built it up so much in the 90's, so when the truth came out at Eric the Red's trial, I was sort of "That was it?????? The man is practically a hero for saving Marrow and nearly dying trying to stop Sabertooth!"

I mean, really, compared to Sabertooth, who actually killed men, women and children in the Morlock Massacre, I always find it illogical how Gambit was always given grief about this, while Sabertooth seemed to be always felt sorry for... He should have been left in Antarctica, not Remy.

 

[iamlegend]

So what you're saying is they don't have the balls to actually make Gambit do something bad. Why can't they not have him sanction what the Marauders were doing? The only reason he assembled and lead them to the Morlocks is because he owed Sinister. It's not like he wanted the Morlocks dead himself. The massacre would have been a real wake up call for the otherwise selfish Gambit. This was supposed to be the big secret that haunted him even worse than the other things he did in his past.

Because I'm saying having Gambit ACTUALLY KNOW that the team he was leading into the sewers was going to SLAUGHTER INNOCENTS would have made his act essentially irredeemable. You don't come back from that.

And among other things, if it takes watching a mass slaughter to make someone realize that there are repercussions to their actions... they're kind of a freaking idiot. And I'd like to think Gambit as a character isn't a freaking idiot.

There are a lot of ways to portray Gambit as selfish, deluded and otherwise dark without having him just pretend that by "not condoning" a slaughter made things okay. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of anyone - fictional or not - actually needing to openly assist in setting up a slaughter to realize that they've been leading a twisted lifestyle and that they're selfish. It would have been complete overkill.

I'm not a big fan of how that whole story played out, but I thought they handled Gambit's role in the Massacre about as well as they could have. It was the aftermath and the whole "Trial of Gambit" part that made that story convoluted and hypocritical.

 

[iamlegend]

I mean, really, compared to Sabertooth, who actually killed men, women and children in the Morlock Massacre, I always find it illogical how Gambit was always given grief about this, while Sabertooth seemed to be always felt sorry for... He should have been left in Antarctica, not Remy.

This is the biggest issue... the writers got really lazy and stopped developing Gambit's character after the trash that was "The Trial of Gambit" (which was organized by a man that's slaughtered plenty, at that...) and he hit a metaphorical wall.

And turned into the wreck of a character we see today. They never let Gambit's story flesh out, never let him have a moment where he forgave himself, or at least came to terms with his past and moved on emotionally. We've just gotten the same stupid story re-hashed. And, of course, Rogue.

 

[Neptune]

Because I'm saying having Gambit ACTUALLY KNOW that the team he was leading into the sewers was going to SLAUGHTER INNOCENTS would have made his act essentially irredeemable. You don't come back from that.

And among other things, if it takes watching a mass slaughter to make someone realize that there are repercussions to their actions... they're kind of a freaking idiot. And I'd like to think Gambit as a character isn't a freaking idiot.

There are a lot of ways to portray Gambit as selfish, deluded and otherwise dark without having him just pretend that by "not condoning" a slaughter made things okay. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of anyone - fictional or not - actually needing to openly assist in setting up a slaughter to realize that they've been leading a twisted lifestyle and that they're selfish. It would have been complete overkill.

I'm not a big fan of how that whole story played out, but I thought they handled Gambit's role in the Massacre about as well as they could have. It was the aftermath and the whole "Trial of Gambit" part that made that story convoluted and hypocritical.

He was kind of a freaking idiot for thinking the Marauders were going over to the Morlock tunnels to play checkers.

 

[squeekness]

This is the biggest issue... the writers got really lazy and stopped developing Gambit's character after the trash that was "The Trial of Gambit" (which was organized by a man that's slaughtered plenty, at that...) and he hit a metaphorical wall.

And turned into the wreck of a character we see today. They never let Gambit's story flesh out, never let him have a moment where he forgave himself, or at least came to terms with his past and moved on emotionally. We've just gotten the same stupid story re-hashed. And, of course, Rogue.

I got the impression that that was done to distract the team -- turning them in on themselves -- so that the bad guy could get away. Well, it worked. The team fell apart and you know who made his escape without a hitch...

 

[iamlegend]

He was kind of a freaking idiot for thinking the Marauders were going over to the Morlock tunnels to play checkers.

Which is why what happened actually works. It's plausible that Gambit was so caught up in getting his debt to an obviously psychotic Sinister paid off that he was in mild to major denial over what the team of criminals he built was going to be doing.

It's not plausible that, at that point in time, the character would have been so cold as to openly condone a massacre as long as it paid his dues.

 

[squeekness]

He was the only Maurader to have openly regretted what had taken place there so that has to count for his character. You know Sabes didn't lose one bit of sleep over it himself....

 

[Neptune]

Which is why what happened actually works. It's plausible that Gambit was so caught up in getting his debt to an obviously psychotic Sinister paid off that he was in mild to major denial over what the team of criminals he built was going to be doing.

It's not plausible that, at that point in time, the character would have been so cold as to openly condone a massacre as long as it paid his dues.

I agree but it's not like he had a choice. He owed Sinister big time, he had to lead the Marauders there anyway. I would have found it more interesting if he knew what they were going to do and he was still obligated to show them to the tunnels.

 

[Havok83]

Id rather Gambit did know what he was asembling the Maruarders for and didnt care. I think that makes his redemption better as he genuinly regretted what he did as he's seen the error in his ways. I dont like the backtracking to make it seem as if he was still always a standup guy even then bc he was naive and innocent about it all

 

[katie_girl09]

Id rather Gambit did know what he was asembling the Maruarders for and didnt care. I think that makes his redemption better as he genuinly regretted what he did as he's seen the error in his ways. I dont like the backtracking to make it seem as if he was still always a standup guy even then bc he was naive and innocent about it all

 

[iamlegend]

Id rather Gambit did know what he was asembling the Maruarders for and didnt care. I think that makes his redemption better as he genuinly regretted what he did as he's seen the error in his ways. I dont like the backtracking to make it seem as if he was still always a standup guy even then bc he was naive and innocent about it all

I just can't buy a character, almost any character, being completely nonchalant about a massacre and suddenly changing sides halfway through it and feeling remorse.

It's not like Gambit's character didn't understand death at that point - he was very well versed in it. And thus he'd understand the consequences of organizing a massacre far too well to think one way and flip flop halfway home.

When they concocted that story they WEREN'T trying to make it look like Gambit was a stand-up guy - they just didn't want to essentially destroy the character by giving him a past so dark and brutal that where he stood when "The Trial of Gambit" was published wouldn't have made any sense.

By then they'd already made some of Gambit's past sins quite apparent, and didn't want to go for overkill.

 

[Neptune]

Maybe but if that's the case they should have made his big secret something entirely different. Claremonts original plans had Gambit being a spy for Sinister. That could have been better than this Morlock massacre retcon. He would have to convince the other X-men that he turned good etc. And i'm just talking about the spy thing, not him being a Sinister clone.

 

[iamlegend]

Maybe but if that's the case they should have made his big secret something entirely different. Claremonts original plans had Gambit being a spy for Sinister. That could have been better than this Morlock massacre retcon. He would have to convince the other X-men that he turned good etc. And i'm just talking about the spy thing, not him being a Sinister clone.

The Gambit concept took a lot of odd turns in the early years - Claremont pitched making him an existential being that manifested at one point (thankfully that never made it off the ground) and for awhile was openly writing him to become the X-Traitor.

Problem was, Gambit got so popular that they didn't want to turn him into a villain/kill him (as odds are the X-Traitor would have bought it), so they cooked up the mess that was Onslaught instead. And strung together Gambit's involvement in the Morlock Massacre instead, in order to justify all the hints they'd be dropping over the years.

Honestly, I was never entirely happy with how they retconned Gambit into that story. But it fit the bill at the time. Had they handled the fallout differently and actually had Gambit grow as a person, it would read so much better today.

 

[Havok83]

Here's an upcoming Choi cover. No word on what book he's doing this for

 

[iamlegend]

Here's an upcoming Choi cover. No word on what book he's doing this for

...Sigh.

 

[katie_girl09]

Double sigh.

 

[squeekness]

Here's an upcoming Choi cover. No word on what book he's doing this for

Maybe I'll just cut around all the Rogue parts befroe I pin it up on my wall.

 

[The Infernal]

Ola everyone. This long time lurker/on holiday from the internet is back for his favourite cajun card thrower.

Even though I'm always a die hard Rogue & Gambit fan and I love this pic, I'm sick of the stories. I don't want it played out again, broken up or whatever, her with Mags etc. I want them to be together but for the writers to move on write something else involving these characters.

That's all for now. Have a nice day and resume normal activities.

I have spoken.

 

[EvilClareToo]

Double sigh.

Triple sigh....But I love the artwork. I can see why Choi has such a big following....

Over on the Gambit thread on the Marvel boards someone posted some stuff from Carey's Facebook/twitter page about Gambit. He says that the Cajun will feature prominently in a story arc after Second Coming. I don't know whether to be happy or worried.....