Sequels The Official "How YOU would do Spider-Man 4" thread

[Zephyr Alexian]

Mary Jane dies in the opening scene. It's not flashy. It's an innocent victim caught at the wrong place at the wrong time. The death of his wife prompts Parker to question his existence and if saving other people was the reason why he couldn't save his wife. (He swings off to a threat within the city right before MJ is murdered.) As the viewer, you would now find out that Peter has no one left because Aunt May had died a few months prior to this. Peter can't cope with these losses, so he decides not to. He buries himself into being Spider-man and working for the Bugle, but deep down, he wants more, so he forms a deeper relationship with Betty Brant. However, the guilt is killing him because MJ still has his heart, but he needs someone he can feel, not just a memory, no matter how intimate the bond.

Also, he would be helping Doc. Connors with his research. Peter loves seeing a man who's working diligently to recreate his lost limb through the regenerative capability of amphibians. Peter becomes a close friend of Doctor Connors (a man now depressed and obssessed with becoming the man he once was) and is now like another member of his family. The unique observation of the struggles that the Connors face on a daily basis gives Peter the hope that he can cope with his own pain and possibly beat it. He sees their family and starts believing that he can have a family. Maybe with Betty. He wants to start anew with Betty Brant.

Peter goes to MJ's grave and makes his peace with her. He knows that she'll always have a place in his heart, but his life is something that they can no longer share. He decides to start dating Betty Brant; things with the Connors are going well also. Spider-man is viewed as a savior and a positive influence in the city. Things are just looking up when a terrible accident happens and Doctor Connors goes missing. <Peter is with Betty intimately when he finds out the next morning on a news segment> The scientific community is in an uproar; who would kidnap a scientist and steal all of his research? J Jonah blames Spider-man for emboldening criminals and essentially being a catalyst for making the city worse.

Peter takes this extremely hard; he had found a way to balance Betty, Spider-man, and helping the doctor. Now this happens and he's even more confused. Spider-man didn't cause this problem (he feels that being Spidey caused him to be unable to stop MJ's death), so why can't he stop the people he loves from hurting themselves or being victims?

Seeing the pain in Billy (Kurt's son) Connor's eyes causes Peter to reflect back on the deaths of the three very important people in his life. Prior to this moment, Peter wanted to let the police handle this. He was afraid that his involvement would somehow make matters worst, but now, he can't resist getting involved. The Connors are like his second family now. Their problem is his. He sets off to find the doctor.

Amid the Doctors disappearance, people all over the city start to disappear. The city is in a state of panic, shock, and fear over what is happening.

What Peter doesn't know is that Mrs. Connors isn't waiting around for the Police or another savior. Friends of the family (Wilson Fisk is a friend of the family) convince her that the law-enforcement of NYC are corrupt, incompetent people who will never find her husband. If she wants results, there are other ways. All she has to do is say yes. She laments his disappearance, so she begs them (Fisk in particular) to help. They console her, and agree to bring in a professional.

Enter Sergei Kravinoff. He begins to track Connors by going through his schedule, asking questions of friends who knew, and learning how he thinks. Peter never knew that Kravinoff was hired to help (or really locate and exterminate) find the Doctor Connors. He keeps running into Kravinoff, so he starts to suspect that Kraven is the kidnapper. This leads to a grisly fight scene between the two men as they struggle to overcome each other. They don't know that a pale henchman (Tombstone) of Wilson Fisk's is keeping track of them both and recording their movements for further analysis. Kravinoff escapes Spider-man's grasp by hiding in the sewers. Spider-man checks his watch: It's happening all over again. . . He has an engagement with Betty, but he can't let the one lead he has to finding the Doctor escape.

He enters the sewer. It's dark, damp, and cold. He doesn't venture too far before running into a pile of human bodies. (he's so overwhelmed that he doesn't notice the disfigured nature of the forms) He freaks out. The deaths of MJ, his Aunt, and Uncle are too vivid in his mind and he keeps seeing their faces on the bodies. Now he knows that the Doctor is dead for sure, and he can't go back and tell his family. What does he do? He needs a breather to clear his head, but he has no one to turn to. Betty?!?!

He goes to her apartment (Tombstone is watching) and is a wreck. She tries to console him but she doesn't know what's wrong. Many things are bothering him, but he chooses to only talk of the loss of his aunt and uncle. (Speaking of MJ is secretly hurting Betty. Peter knows this, so he tries to keep that pain to himself.) He asks Betty how to cope with death. She tells him that coping with it is impossible. You just have to accept it and make the effort not to let it or the fear of it prevent you from living your life. He feels reassured but drained, so he stays there for the night.

Kravinoff gets closer and closer. He's been following a trail of bodies and it's leading him to that familiar scent. He hears a deep growling unlike anything he's ever heard, but tries to remain calm. He can't help but notice the unusual silence. He can feel the rush of sweat trickling down his face as he's suddenly attacked. It's a vicious fight and not at all what Kraven expected. Within minutes the Lizard has subdued him and Kravinoff is in bad shape. You don't see the Lizard in the fight; all you see is the tail at the end of it.

As dawn approaches, a figure quietly leaves Betty's apartment. Peter can't get over this really bad feeling that he has. He checks the Connor's home. Mrs. Connors is crying in her bedroom; at Billy's window, he sees a peaceful child who's sleeping. He doesn't have the words to help Doc's wife, nor does he have the answers to keep the boy as peaceful as he looks right now. He feels sadness, but also a resolve to at least bring back the Doctor's corpse. Surely, it's one of the many down there, and he must find it for the family's sake. He notices a pale man in a vehicle watching him, but in his current state, Peter has too many things on his mind to really pay attention.

He leaves Kurt's house to re-enter the sewer at the same point of the last entry. This time he moves swiftly. He encounters Kravinoff's fresh blood, but doesn't know who the fluid belongs too. He notices that it's too quiet. Spider-sense!! Too late, he's hit. He falls flat on his face and the first time you see the Lizard is upside down from Spidey's perspective. All you hear is growling mixed in with the a deeper version of Doc's voice. The intensity of the fight is only ended when Spider-man uses a sewer cap to smash the Lizard in the head. He doesn't know what IT is. Why is it wearing a laboratory jacket?! He checks the interior of the jacket and the picture causes him to scream in horror. <it's Mrs. Connors and Billy>

As he picks up Connors unconscious body, an arm grabs his leg. It's Kravinoff begging for help. Spider-man carries both bodies up from the sewer. As he leaves the sewer, we again see the Pale Man watching him. Spider-man drops Kravinoff and tells him that he's on his own. He takes the Lizard and swings off. The Pale Man who appears to be Tombstone walks up to Kravinoff and tells him to get up. Then he shoots him and walks away.

The Lizard is aroused by the constant air upon his body as Spider-man swings through the city. As Spider-man swings past the Bugle Connors makes his move. He swipes Spidey and grabs one of the buildings. Now we see how well this creature can really move across the sun scape. Connors is feral. He starts attacking innocent people as he flees, but where is he going?

Billy is playing outside with friends when the creature lunges for him. Spider-man knocks him out of the way. The ending fight ensues with Spider-man being unable to contain the Lizard as he electrocutes himself on a transformer. By this time, Mrs. Connors and all of the neighborhood had seen this. Wilson Fisk is standing beside Mrs. Connors and as the Police arrive, he tells her that everything will be okay. Spider-man swings away in real pain. He couldn't save another person. Why?! The news reports that an amphibious creature has murdered a number of citizens including NYU's own Kurt Connors. J Jonah again links the creature to Spider-man by claiming that he's responsible for these freaks. No one knows the truth except for Peter and Billy's part of his reason for not saying anything either.

The ending of the movie takes place at the funeral of Doctor Conners. As Fisk gives the eulogy about a man of character, Peter heads outside. Betty tells him that they need to slow down with the relationship. She realizes that Peter hasn't fully healed from MJ's death, but when he's ready, she'll be there. Until then, she's always a friend. She walks away and Peter knows it's for the best, but he doesn't necessarily agree, because he saw her as his means of healing.

By now the funeral has ended and we again see a pale man pull up in a vehicle and open the door. People are departing from the church where the funeral is being held. Wilson Fisk gives his parting condolences to Mrs. Connors and strolls toward the vehicle. Peter doesn't understand why the pale man (Fisk's driver/henchmen Tombstone) is sneering at him. Fisk tells Parker that Connor's always spoke very highly of him. Then he gets into his limo and rolls down his window, looks at Spider-man, and says, "You couldn't save him and you can't save yourself Spider-Man." He then whistles as he rolls back up the limo and it speeds away.

The film ends with Peter staring at Fisk limo leaving in one direction, while the Connor's heads in the other. Now he truly is alone.

 

[arachnid-guy]

I would kill myself after watching this.

 

[Spider-Ranger]

How about introducing Randy Robertson as a friend of Peter?

 

[FaT_tONle]

My brief outline would be something like...

Parker recently graduates. Maybe he stays in college to do some post graduate work with Dr. Conners. MJ would only appear briefly via a short video telephone call updating Parker on her acting career in Hollywood. Gwen would step in as the new love interest. Conners becomes Lizard... supporting characters would be Ned Leeds, although Randy Robertson (as mentioned above) isn't a bad line of thought. The Bugle will shift its attention more towards anti-Lizard sentiment rather than Spidey resentment because that gets old after a while. That would also galvanize both the public to support the take down of the Lizard, and it would further embolden law enforcement to use force and perhaps kill the Lizard. As a last resort the Mayor of New York would hire Kraven to finally kill the Lizard and off we go. I'd probably kill Cpt. Stacy off somewhere in the film. Gwen would blame Spidey on her father's death for trying to protect Lizard instead of taking him down. End the movie with MJ putting her relationship with Parker on indefinite hold. I think that's about as simple, as solid, and as to the point as you can get in terms of making quality film. No getting cute with excess villains or extra baggage.

 

[Hurm...]

My brief outline would be something like...

Parker recently graduates. Maybe he stays in college to do some post graduate work with Dr. Conners. MJ would only appear briefly via a short video telephone call updating Parker on her acting career in Hollywood. Gwen would step in as the new love interest. Conners becomes Lizard... supporting characters would be Ned Leeds, although Randy Robertson (as mentioned above) isn't a bad line of thought. The Bugle will shift its attention more towards anti-Lizard sentiment rather than Spidey resentment because that gets old after a while. That would also galvanize both the public to support the take down of the Lizard, and it would further embolden law enforcement to use force and perhaps kill the Lizard. As a last resort the Mayor of New York would hire Kraven to finally kill the Lizard and off we go. I'd probably kill Cpt. Stacy off somewhere in the film. Gwen would blame Spidey on her father's death for trying to protect Lizard instead of taking him down. End the movie with MJ putting her relationship with Parker on indefinite hold. I think that's about as simple, as solid, and as to the point as you can get in terms of making quality film. No getting cute with excess villains or extra baggage.

IDK just not feeling it really.

 

[Visionary]

Spider-Man fans' ideas for SM4 scares the living crap out of me.

 

[thejon93]

Spider-Man fans' ideas for SM4 scares the living crap out of me.

I couldn't agree more

Can't wait to hear what's next: "Peter Parker is revealed not to be the real Spider-Man, because Spider-Man was actually Gwen Stacy who falls off a bridge and dies and Peter becomes Spider-Man because Arnold Schwarzenegger comes and tells him: It is your destiny. And Peter becomes Spider-Man, and the movie ends with Peter as Spider-Man, and not Gwen Stacy as Spider-Man(who was the real Spider-Man), but then Spider-Man becomes a real-spider for real. And most fight a cloud accidently made by Dr. Connors who becomes The Turtle to try and save Spider-Man, but instead, he falls into a ditch and can't crawl back out. THE END"

 

[Hobgoblin]

My opinion:
Peter and MJ are still having a difficult time. Peter wants to make things up to her but MJ doesnt fully trust him after SM3. Peter spends much of his time Dr Connors, burying himself in his work. Connors, of course, is working on the limb regeneration serum. Doc changes into the Lizard in front of Peter and he tries to save Connors as Spidey.

The Lizard is too much for Spider-Man and defeats him handily, escaping into the sewers after Spidey gets away by dumb luck. Peter tries to develop a cure for Connors condition, but isnt sure it'll work, as it has to be ingested. He is also wary of getting near Connors after being beaten so badly. He is relieved when Kraven the Hunter arrives from Africa to announce he will capture the Lizard. He isnt sure what to do after he learns Kraven plans to kill the Lizard. Peter wonders if Kraven killing the Lizard is for the best.

Aunt May, meanwhile, has been hiding the fact that she is sick from Peter. She has a degenerative disease, one that,naturally, could be cured with Connors help, a la The Master Planner story. So Peter goes to save and cure Connors, despite Kraven's insistence he stay away. The Lizard is his to hunt, the glory will be his. Naturally, this turns into a three way fight, with Peter fighting the Lizard while trying to save him.

The movie ends with the Lizard cured and Kraven swearing revenge on Spider-Man, setting up part 5. The whole theme of the story is loyalty. Peter is still hurt by Harry's betrayal and MJ's anger at him. At some point, he wants to be left alone, thinking he is alone in life. MJ, Aunt May and Connors show him otherwise.

 

[I'm Venom]

Peter buries himself into being Spider-Man and working for the Daily Bugle, but Mary Jane still has his heart. He knows that she’ll always have a place in his heart. Things with Dr. Connors are going well when an accident happens and Connors goes missing. The community is in an uproar; who would kidnap a scientist? J. Jonah Jameson blames Spider-Man.

Peter graduates and wants to make things up to MJ, but she doesn’t fully trust him, so Peter goes to find Connors and learns that there’s a monster in the city. It’s all in the newspapers. When he encounters the Lizard, he sees the lab coat and believes Lizard to be Connors, so he doesn’t want to hurt him, and Lizard escapes. Kraven comes to New York to hunt Lizard, causing Peter to go to work on an antidote to cure Connors.

 

[Hobgoblin]

So basically we have the same idea. Hm, either we are on to something or our stories are too formulaic.

 

[stillanerd]

Okay, I know that whatever fan concept I come up with it either going to fall very short of what the film is going to be and that some will probably think it will royally suck, so I’ll try to go for more of a bulletin style of what I’d like to see in a fourth film combined with what I think what we might see in a fourth film. First, I think we’ll see the following:

*First off, I have a feeling that Mary Jane will be reduced to a cameo role, in that after the events of Spider-Man 3, she moved out to Hollywood to try and pursue her acting career, and of course, Peter really misses her, and wonders why he didn’t try harder to make her stay. There could even be a scene in which Peter and MJ try to call each other, to show that both of them still have feelings for each other, but they either miss each other’s phone calls, or they both get busy signals as a results of trying simultaneously calling each other.

*This of course allows for Gwen Stacy to move front and center, still a little miffed that Peter used her to get back at MJ, but gradually, becoming more friendly, and becoming more romantically attracted to him. Of course, Peter feels awkward about wanting to pursue a new relationship because of his love for MJ and feels he’d be betraying her if he and Gwen became serious, although the temptation is there. And also, Aunt May can tell him that it’s up to Peter to decide for himself whether he should have a relationship with Gwen, but that if he still loves MJ, then he should do whatever he can to try and reach her and get her back. That, of course, could come later in a certain scene if you read down further.

*The major villain will be the Lizard. After all, Curt Connors has been in at least two of the films and referenced all three times, so it’s high time he showed up. You could even introduce his wife and fellow scientist Martha, and their twelve year old son, Billy. And the regeneration formula derived from Reptile DNA of course. Plus the Lizard harkens towards Raimi’s horror movie background and has a Jekyll and Hyde aspect (or even Raimi’s Darkman to a degree) even more so than the Green Goblin did in the first movie. Plus it be really cool to see Connors transform into the Lizard on screen, along with regeneration effects and mental control of other reptiles.

In a sense, all three involve the theme of maturity, of living with what one has rather than dwelling on the past. For Peter, it’s the notion that he finds that his hopes and dreams are no longer the same as they once were when he started out as Spider-Man, that they may not even include Mary Jane, and the thought scares him. For Connors, it’s both metaphorical and actual, in that his desire to restore his missing arm is akin to a kind of “middle age crisis” and that his transformation into the Lizard is a nightmarish and ironic example of a guy trying to restore his lost youth--in this case, he’s reverted back to an even more primitive form.

As for things I’d like to see:

*Flash Thompson returns. It’s established that he joined the army after high school, finished his service, and now has enrolled in Empire State University. Peter, with the memories of Flash’s bullying still fresh, can’t stand the fact that Flash is regarded as being more of an “adult.” In keeping with the comics, Flash still ribs Peter, although he really would like to bury the hatchet between himself and Pete, and, of course, is a Spider-Man fan boy. This would also be in keeping with the maturity theme, in that Flash has moved on while Peter is still dwelling on the past. So now, you not only have Gwen in place of Mary Jane as the potential replacement for Peter’s love interest, but Flash in the place of Harry as the potential replacement for Peter’s best friend.

*Kraven the Hunter, who is the real villain of the movie. In this case, he’d be a famed adventurer arriving in New York based on a publicity stunt sponsored by Jameson to capture Spider-Man. He not only is trying to hunt down Spider-Man but is also trying to hunt down the Lizard as well. This of course, causes a dilemma for Spider-Man in that he now has to both protect himself and his friend Curt from being captured and killed. Likewise, in keeping with the theme, Kraven fears his own mortality, restoring to special herbal potions that not only keep up his strength, reflexes, and vitality, but also slows down his aging. The downside is that it’s addictive, and also mood altering, making him more and more insane.

*Fights between Spidey and the Lizard involving the Central Park Zoo and the later the sewers, there can also be nods to Kraven’s Last Hunt, especially with a scene in which Kraven traps Spider-Man in a reinforced net, shoots him with a tranquilizer gun, and buries him alive. Be a great place for Spidey to start having hallucinatory flashbacks involving Uncle Ben and Harry Osborn. Plus, having the scene of Spider-Man burst out of his grave during a rainstorm would be classic to see on screen, not to mention be a nod to Raimi’s Evil Dead films at the same time.

*The death of Captain Stacy. Granted, Doctor Octopus wouldn’t be involved, but most likely the Lizard, the result of which is due to Spider-Man attempting to trap the Lizard with his webbing. The scene then plays out as it did in the comics, with a chimney falling over and Stacy pushing a kid out of the way to avoid being crushed. This way, you have not just Spider-Man who feels responsible for Stacy’s death, but Connors as well, once he learns what the Lizard did. This then allows for the angle of Spider-Man being hunted by the police, as well as Gwen blaming Spider-Man for the death of her father, which of course ruins the chance Peter might have had with Gwen as a result since he cannot disclose to her that he’s really Spider-Man. And likewise, Connors would feel that he has to do something to stop the Lizard from taking control of him again, but of course it’s becoming an ever losing battle.

*And while this might be a little much, have a subplot in which Aunt May has a heart attack and Peter learns that his aunt has a weak heart--or maybe even a cardiac sarcoma--and may only have a short time left to live--perhaps a year or two at best. Again, this ties into the theme of change, maturity, and growth, in that Aunt May reminds Peter that he cannot depend upon her forever, that one day he’ll have to accept that she will die and join Ben one day. There could even be a moment in which she tells him that she knows he’s Spider-Man and known it for a long time (at least since Spider-Man 2 anyway).

*Not sure if Adrian Toomes as the Vulture could fit in, although he’d be an interesting addition. Perhaps he could be the new CEO of OsCorp via a corporate takeover since both Norman and Harry are dead. There could even be a nod to his developing the Vulture suit or even the idea that he was the one who hired Kraven to try and capture Spider-Man so as to examine him for research. After all, the Vulture was supposed to be in Spider-Man 3 and played by Ben Kingsley according to Raimi, and that would be cool to see him on screen.

*Whether or not these all stay in Spider-Man 4 or carry over into Spider-Man 5, who knows. However it pans out, it could result in, towards the end, Mary Jane coming back and the two of them rekindling their love for one another. This happens just as Gwen departs for England to be with relatives due to trying to deal with the death of her father and the realization that Peter’s heart really belongs to MJ and/or her learning that Peter is Spider-Man is too much for her to deal with. Besides, a possible Death of Gwen Stacy would be out of the question considering that you have to have the Green Goblin involved and that we already had a Spidey’s one true love thrown off a bridge in the first movie.

 

[FaT_tONle]

My sentiments exactly ^^^... going back to FLash Thopmpson is a retread though. Need another guy in there.

 

[red hood 4]

What about a dual Spidey and Venom Story line Spidey vs the Lizard. Venom/Eddie vs his father. Should I elaborate

 

[stillanerd]

My sentiments exactly ^^^... going back to FLash Thopmpson is a retread though. Need another guy in there.

But if you think about, Flash hasn't been seen since the first movie, was only a minor character, and was basically your stereotypical bully character. We didn't get a chance to see what kind of character he was as depicted in the comics, or why he picked on Peter. His coming back as a changed man due to his army experiences, wanting to put the past between Peter and himself behind him would, I think, would be an interesting story.

And let's say that Mary Jane still plays a major character in Spider-Man 4 and not reduced to a cameo, as it also seems likely based on what I've read (whether or not she was still played by Kristen Dunst or not is in question) and Gwen is not in the movie at all (after all, it would make sense given that the movies have built up the Peter and MJ romance as being a central subplot and to deviate from that would be problematic with regards to storytelling and the audience wouldn't exactly warm up to a totally new romanace after three films of building up one between Peter and MJ). Then it adds more to the drama and to the theme, in that Peter becomes jealous of the attention MJ pays towards her ex-boyfriend from high school but she insists that she and Flash are just friends and that Peter needs to get over high school. Of course, this could be used to actually strengthen the love between Peter and MJ and possibly mature it.

And, as rumored, there's another girl to rival MJ for Peter's affections--which has got to be the Black Cat, despite the fact she'd be seen as Catwoman rip-off by audiences--then you have the temptation of Peter turning towards someone who, like him, is also a costumed character and who is attacted towards him, especially if it's established that Peter and MJ are not in a relationship by the beginning of the film and if Flash is in the picture.

The point is, having Flash back would be a nod to the first film and reflect the notion regarding the theme of change. Showing Flash and MJ as friends hanging out would also provide an echo to the first film and also show how much has changed in the characters lives.

 

[American_Hobo]

it seems like nobody's mentioniung about Hobgoblin...

roderick kingsley somehow discovering Norman Osborn's secret lair and becoming the newer and more powerful than neither norman or harry was.

i think hobgoblin can provide a great storyline Spiderman 4..(well yeah it's another Goblin, i know)

 

[Hobgoblin]

it seems like nobody's mentioniung about Hobgoblin...

roderick kingsley somehow discovering Norman Osborn's secret lair and becoming the newer and more powerful than neither norman or harry was.

i think hobgoblin can provide a great storyline Spiderman 4..(well yeah it's another Goblin, i know)

I love the Goblins, but they've had their arc. Time to bring in other villains.

 

[Venom 1988]

IF (and thats if) Hobgoblin ever shows up in the movies, I'd rather it not be Kingsley and I would want them to play up the mystery of who he is to the point that even fanboys arent quite sure he is in the movie.

 

[Hobgoblin]

IF (and thats if) Hobgoblin ever shows up in the movies, I'd rather it not be Kingsley and I would want them to play up the mystery of who he is to the point that even fanboys arent quite sure he is in the movie.

Keeping the essence of the original Hobgoblin story. I like it.

 

[scatterax]

IF (and thats if) Hobgoblin ever shows up in the movies, I'd rather it not be Kingsley and I would want them to play up the mystery of who he is to the point that even fanboys arent quite sure he is in the movie.

an interesting idea. I kinda like it. but it be kinda funny if he turned out to be the chameleon in disguise, and that it was really him that killed uncle ben. (well, he's not my uncle, i just call him that.)

 

[pjspider1C]

How's about this...

In Spider-Man 4, have the man villain be the Chameleon with a sub-plot of Peter helping Dr. Connors with his regeneration experiments. At the end, have the Chameleon die and have Dr. Connors turn into the Lizard.

In Spider-Man 5, Kraven shows up. Not only to track down and kill the Lizard, but also to get revenge on Spider-Man for killing his brother, the Chameleon.

And over the course of them both, write Mary Jane out. Don't kill her off or anything, just have her leave Peter. Maybe throw in the death of Capt. Stacy (possibly at the Chameleon's hands), and then start building towards a Peter & Gwen romance.

Could make for an interesting two films...

 

[FaT_tONle]

But if you think about, Flash hasn't been seen since the first movie, was only a minor character, and was basically your stereotypical bully character. We didn't get a chance to see what kind of character he was as depicted in the comics, or why he picked on Peter. His coming back as a changed man due to his army experiences, wanting to put the past between Peter and himself behind him would, I think, would be an interesting story.

It's still a retread. Audiences are accustomed to one version of Flash and they shouldn't change the character just to make him more like his comic counterpart. It's unlikely you'll get the actor back (he had a cameo in SM3). Even if he does do it there are other characters that have potential and you want to bring in some new blood in there.

And let's say that Mary Jane still plays a major character in Spider-Man 4 and not reduced to a cameo, as it also seems likely based on what I've read (whether or not she was still played by Kristen Dunst or not is in question) and Gwen is not in the movie at all (after all, it would make sense given that the movies have built up the Peter and MJ romance as being a central subplot and to deviate from that would be problematic with regards to storytelling and the audience wouldn't exactly warm up to a totally new romanace after three films of building up one between Peter and MJ). Then it adds more to the drama and to the theme, in that Peter becomes jealous of the attention MJ pays towards her ex-boyfriend from high school but she insists that she and Flash are just friends and that Peter needs to get over high school. Of course, this could be used to actually strengthen the love between Peter and MJ and possibly mature it.

Another MJ, Peter, boyfriend love triangle??? Are you serious??? I wouldn't even call Gwen a love triangle. That was a friendship... there is potential there... obviously leading to her death. But they can build that relationship up. But for that to work MJ has to be out of the picture. I think MJ will be limited if they recast or even bring Dunst back.

And, as rumored, there's another girl to rival MJ for Peter's affections--which has got to be the Black Cat, despite the fact she'd be seen as Catwoman rip-off by audiences--then you have the temptation of Peter turning towards someone who, like him, is also a costumed character and who is attacted towards him, especially if it's established that Peter and MJ are not in a relationship by the beginning of the film and if Flash is in the picture.

Black Cat is not going to happen. It's too late to introduce Felicia. Unless Gwen is out of the picture which is certainly possible. But we already agree that the Gwen, Parker angle works the best for the projected plot.

The point is, having Flash back would be a nod to the first film and reflect the notion regarding the theme of change. Showing Flash and MJ as friends hanging out would also provide an echo to the first film and also show how much has changed in the characters lives.

Nods to the first film... this is why SM3 was what it was... oh we need a trilogy to wrap up lose ends (ENDS THAT WERE ALREADY WRAPPED UP)... so let's make up some bull **** side plot about this Flint Marko as the real Uncle Ben killer. Let's bring Uncle Ben back for a lame flashback that shouldn't have even been in there on the first place. If you get wrapped up in improving EVERY character arc for EVERY suppurting character that has already been featured you will get burned. Sometimes you just have to use the infinite source material and move on. I really don't understand why you are so worked up on Flash returning. But I am making a general point. It's completely uneccesary bringing back old supporting characters. The guys from the Bugle are a different story though. With Flash you are doing the same thing... let's take a character and change him into something he never was to begin with... let's make up some bull **** on how MJ still apparently has feelings for this guy... or that Pete decides to befriend this guy again after all these years so audiences will actually care about him this time around... and let's waste screen time... don't repeat that mistake.

 

[MonBeeb]

Black Cat is not going to happen. It's too late to introduce Felicia. Unless Gwen is out of the picture which is certainly possible. But we already agree that the Gwen, Parker angle works the best for the projected plot.

This is entirely true. Gwen already fills the "other girl" spot.

Plus, having Black Cat would sex up the movies too much, and they already felt like they were getting risque with SM3. Weirdly enough.

 

[stillanerd]

Another MJ, Peter, boyfriend love triangle??? Are you serious??? I wouldn't even call Gwen a love triangle. That was a friendship... there is potential there... obviously leading to her death. But they can build that relationship up. But for that to work MJ has to be out of the picture. I think MJ will be limited if they recast or even bring Dunst back.

You got to remember that, as far as the films go, Mary Jane is the primary love interest so it's not hard to think that the filmmakers would want to keep that alive if only for continuity's sake. Even if MJ is in a cameo role and Gwen stays, it most likely would still result in Peter going back to MJ. Also, I've come across reports as cited by Comics2film that Mary Jane character is in the script. Now the question of whether or not Dunst will come back to reprise the role is certainly an issue, but it certainly wouldn't mean that someone else couldn't play her. Also, another rumor I've come across is saying that Gwen is out, and that some other woman will be trying to get Peter's attention. But hey, who knows, given that scripts are constantly being re-written all through production.

Black Cat is not going to happen. It's too late to introduce Felicia. Unless Gwen is out of the picture which is certainly possible. But we already agree that the Gwen, Parker angle works the best for the projected plot.

Well, they have been trying to get Black Cat into the movies since Spider-Man 2 at least. And as much as I think it would be late--not to mention a very bad idea given that most audiences would consider her a Catwoman rip-off (even Michael Chabon who had script credit for Spider-Man 2 thought she was, not to mention it was too many costumed character being involved) it could very well be likely that Marvel Studios would want her in the film in the same way they pushed for Gwen Stacy and Venom to be in the third movie.

Nods to the first film... this is why SM3 was what it was... oh we need a trilogy to wrap up lose ends (ENDS THAT WERE ALREADY WRAPPED UP)... so let's make up some bull **** side plot about this Flint Marko as the real Uncle Ben killer. Let's bring Uncle Ben back for a lame flashback that shouldn't have even been in there on the first place. If you get wrapped up in improving EVERY character arc for EVERY suppurting character that has already been featured you will get burned. Sometimes you just have to use the infinite source material and move on. I really don't understand why you are so worked up on Flash returning. But I am making a general point. It's completely uneccesary bringing back old supporting characters. The guys from the Bugle are a different story though. With Flash you are doing the same thing... let's take a character and change him into something he never was to begin with... let's make up some bull **** on how MJ still apparently has feelings for this guy... or that Pete decides to befriend this guy again after all these years so audiences will actually care about him this time around... and let's waste screen time... don't repeat that mistake.

I didn't say anything about MJ having feelings for Flash. Clearly, as the first film showed, she was completely over him after graduation. And actually, according to the comics, Flash was in the army and eventually did become one of Peter's good friends (he was even best man at Peter and MJ's now retconned wedding in the comics as well). And, all through the comics, he was a big fan of Spider-Man and an avid supporter of his no matter how bad things got for Spidey, and yet, ironically, thought Peter was too stuck-up and a know it all snob, much less never suspected him of ever being Spider-Man at all. There was even one point in the comics where MJ did date him, but only to try and make Peter jealous. So unlike the stupid decision to make Sandman the real killer of Uncle Ben, there's certainly enough material straight from the comics for the filmmakers to use if they wanted to re-introduce Flash to the series.

As for the trilogy aspect of the first three movies, well that was only dependant on whether Raimi felt he could tell another story beyond the initial plan of having three films.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I am saying is too late to give audiences the reformed Flash... it would have been almost ten years in real time between SM1/4. It wouldn't be realistic... instead of using John Jameson they could have kept Flash in SM2 but they didn't... bringing back Flash in SM4 is probably worse for continuity's sake than not having him back at all. I personally don't want to waste that time reintroducing him. With Brock dead... Flash being a nod in SM3 tops... and Harry gone... it's time for a new slate of male characters. Completely new slate... other than Cpt Stacy or older characters like that.

 

[SKSpawn]

Time has passed, but Peter still mourns Harry's death. He has his staff job at the Bugle now and MJ is either doing well as an actress or a professional model (like she originally was) and they live together in a relatively decent apartment. Harry's death is causing Peter to doubt himself and his self-worth, though MJ is still supporting him in the name of their relationship and the sacrifices they made for it and her love for him.

Meanwhile, Doctor Conners has completed a gene splicing project with the symbiote sample and lizard DNA to create a serum that will regenerate damaged skin tissue, but it hasn't been a cheap process, or one with a history of results, so the University cuts his grant and he has 24 hours to clear out of campus. At the end of his rope (his wife has left him, along with his son) he injects himself with the serum.

At the same time, Jameson is rolling with momentum in hs Spider-Man hate campaign, printing stories that implicate Spidey in the deaths of the Osborne's and Eddie Brock and offering cash rewards for Spidey's arrest or capture, prompting a visit from Doctor Smythe who suggests a generous donation for the creation of "Spider Slayers" to track down Spider-Man.

Doc Conners is delighed to find that he has, albeit painfully, re-grown his missing arm but it quickly begins to mutate in a fashion not unlike the symbiote and cause his body to undergo significant monsterous changes, covering his skin in scales, sharpening his teeth and senses and driving him into a rage. Peter was on his way to discuss his finals with Conners and sees the half-man, half-lizard fleeing into the night, so Spidey's-Up, chases him and fights him thinking it is some monster and discovers it is Conners before Curt breaks free and flees into the sewers. Spider-Man is then attacked by a Mark One Spider-Slayer, but he defeats it.

Investigating Conners lab, Peter discovers what happened and is horrified/guilt-ridden and vows to make an antidote, perhaps mentioning to MJ that e could use a similar antidote to rid himself of his powers. Meanwhile, in the sewers, Conners mutates further, painfully growing a tail and clawed hands and becoming more feral. He breaks to the surface and goes on a rampage, which gets caught by new cameras.

Though the antidote is unfinished, Spider-Man has no choice but to go and try to quell Conners, so another fight begins, but Spider-Man is holding back through fear of hurting the man inside. Matters get worse when a Mark Two Spider-Slayer arrives and both forces force Spider-Man to retreat in a battered state that allows Conners to escape again, though Spidey does disable the Spider Slayer.

Exhausted and battered, Peter works to oerfect the antidote using hs own blood, while Conners makes his way to the house of his wife and child, now fully mutated into the Lizard, and kidnaps them, taking them into the sewers. Spider-Man searches for the Lizard in the sewers based on the fact that he saw the Lizard escape to or emerge from them in their earlier encounters, where he finds the Lizard attempting to cocoon his family in his own symbiote-like salvia, with the assumed intent of mutating them like himself.

Spider-Man and the Lizard fight one last time, wrecking the immediate area, but the Lizard is too powerful and Spider-Man is still holding back. The Lizard is poised for the kill but his wife and son make him stop by appealing to his inner human, allowing Spider-Man the opportunity to apply the antidote and, with painful results, Doc Conners returns to normal.

Peter confides to MJ that he has learned that family is the most important thing in life and that his great powers cannot just be wished away, so he destroys his note on the antidote and vows to remain Spider-Man, s there is the mystery of the Spider Slayers to uncover. MJ is there for him, saying she will support him.

The final shot of the film would be Jameson and Smythe meeting to discuss the creation of the next Spider Slayer, an armoured suit that can outmatch Spider-Man in a fight: the Scorpion!