The Official Michael Shannon IS General Zod - Part 2

[DorkyFresh]

that's true, C.Lee....i admit that the older a movie is, the less i'm inclined to watch it. i'm just NOW starting to get into Clint Eastwood's old movies. i saw 'the Shining' for the first time in December.

but i think that's normal...i'm sure there aren't many of us that have even seen a silent film even though there are quite a few that are considered classics. same goes for black and white films. so i can (sorta) see why people born after 1990 wouldn't really care to watch the Reeve Superman movies.

 

[C. Lee]

that's true, C.Lee....i admit that the older a movie is, the less i'm inclined to watch it. i'm just NOW starting to get into Clint Eastwood's old movies. i saw 'the Shining' for the first time in December.

but i think that's normal...i'm sure there aren't many of us that have even seen a silent film even though there are quite a few that are considered classics. same goes for black and white films. so i can (sorta) see why people born after 1990 wouldn't really care to watch the Reeve Superman movies.

I think it may be "normal" for kids today. When I was young....we learned to respect history and value things that were old. Today kids are taught to value the here and now. And no....this doesn't mean everyone does it....I'm saying that this now seems to be the norm.

For me back then....black and white films were just another movie. I saw some movies dozens of times....and didn't find out until years later they were in color because we didn't get a color TV until the 70's.

And silent films....I have a collection of them.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I grew up watching older movies. Films from the 30's to 70's were all there was. I'm used to them and like them. I've noticed from my time on the Hype discussing movies, that many of the people today won't even try to watch movies a few decades old. So I give I See Spidey props for at least watching it. But that's the strange thing I have noticed with many of the posters here. When I was a kid, the age of the movie didn't matter at all. I heard there was a movie I hadn't seen, I tried to watch it. Many on here, you say it's old and they run away screaming.

I don't watch older films as much as I should but when I get around to it I'm usually rewarded. I just watched "No Way Out" a week or so ago.

Eventhough it came out before I was born, I don't even consider "Superman: The Movie" to be some super old film anyway. BTW: I watched Forbidden Planet a few months back and that movie may be a little over the top by todays standards but it had a really good plot. I'm surprised they haven't remade it.

 

[craigdbfan]

You guys should check out the old War of the Worlds film.

It's a really good movie.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I think it may be "normal" for kids today. When I was young....we learned to respect history and value things that were old. Today kids are taught to value the here and now. And no....this doesn't mean everyone does it....I'm saying that this now seems to be the norm.

For me back then....black and white films were just another movie. I saw some movies dozens of times....and didn't find out until years later they were in color because we didn't get a color TV until the 70's.

And silent films....I have a collection of them.

damn, pwnd!! i feel like those punk kids in 'Gran Turino' and you're Clint Eastwood (no offense), hehe.


foreal though, i respect the older movies...without them we couldn't have evolved into the hyper A.D.D. movies we've gotten to today. i just find a lot of them hard to swallow, if not because of the technical quality then artistic. there are a good number of oldies that i enjoy on the regular though.

 

[solidsnake86]

STM is just one of those films that I really don't think is a good movie, IMO of course, regardless if its not a popular. I'm also able to see for its time its probably the best they could have done, however, its irritating to hear that it can't be improved upon, especially when the director helps co-write a comic book that fleshes out characters he brought to the screen and improves upon his own work. Its a cycle on these forums though, everyones excited for the new superman followed by someone chiming in that he wont be better than reeve, they talk about music then someone quickly follows by saying it needs the williams score or else it will not be a good film. The amount of exaggeration on these forums is incredible. Then I remember that its the same 40 so its not like it really matters.

 

[C. Lee]

damn, pwnd!! i feel like those punk kids in 'Gran Turino' and you're Clint Eastwood (no offense), hehe.


foreal though, i respect the older movies...without them we couldn't have evolved into the hyper A.D.D. movies we've gotten to today. i just find a lot of them hard to swallow, if not because of the technical quality then artistic. there are a good number of oldies that i enjoy on the regular though.

This is where you have to watch them while thinking of the times that they were made.

I don't mind a movie from, say the 40's having bad special effects....they didn't have the ability to make great ones. I accept that and enjoy it for what it is. But a movie made today with bad special effects....there's no call for it. I've seen stuff that kids on thier home computer make that is great....but the Sy Fy channel can't make a movie with a decent monster and they have millions of dollars to play with.

Some people complain about the plots or what people do in older movies. You have to remember that there were tons more restrictions on what they could do or say back then that there is now. They had to film around things that mean nothing today. There were things they couldn't talk about...words that they couldn't say. Themes were not allowed to be discussed except for in the most round about of ways.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Especially when it comes to attitudes about race and gender, you just need to put yourself into that mindset and go.

STM is just one of those films that I really don't think is a good movie, IMO of course, regardless if its not a popular. I'm also able to see for its time its probably the best they could have done, however, its irritating to hear that it can't be improved upon, especially when the director helps co-write a comic book that fleshes out characters he brought to the screen and improves upon his own work. Its a cycle on these forums though, everyones excited for the new superman followed by someone chiming in that he wont be better than reeve, they talk about music then someone quickly follows by saying it needs the williams score or else it will not be a good film. The amount of exaggeration on these forums is incredible. Then I remember that its the same 40 so its not like it really matters.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[DorkyFresh]

well, when i'm able to get to that mindset...i enjoy those films alot. however, it's more often the case that i'm just not in the mindset. i have to be in a specific mood in order to watch older movies...but then again that's how i am with movies anyway. if i'm in the mood for a dark thriller, i can't watch a musical...hehe

 

[flickchick85]

See, I love older movies. I even love "fun blockbusters" from the same era Superman: The Movie came out (Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders). I just don't like Superman: The Movie. The era it came out in isn't the reason. I just think it's massively inconsistent (basically schizophrenic) in tone, and that bugs me. I think it's half good movie, half cheesefest.

 

[Wheels]

I love older films myself. 12 Angry Men is one of my favorite movies.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

See, I love older movies. I even love "fun blockbusters" from the same era Superman: The Movie came out (Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders). I just don't like Superman: The Movie. The era it came out in isn't the reason. I just think it's massively inconsistent (basically schizophrenic) in tone, and that bugs me. I think it's half good movie, half cheesefest.

I'll cite the Star Wars films as an example of fun blockbusters that I liked from that period and I don't get Superman: The Movie either.

My sister and I watched the movie a few years ago and after we were done, we agreed that the we liked the Krypton stuff and the Smallville stuff but not the Metropolis stuff, with the exception of a few scenes. Just hated the nonsense plot and the uber cartoony villains.

I just watched Superman 2 again and still didn't like it either but I did like Zod and the big battle at the end, for the most part. Zod was always just this memorable thing for me which is why I'm wondering why I'm so leery of the idea of an updated version...Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I'm dying for an updated version of Superman.

 

[flickchick85]

I'll cite the Star Wars films as an example of fun blockbusters that I liked from that period and I don't get Superman: The Movie either.

My sister and I watched the movie a few years ago and after we were done, we agreed that the we liked the Krypton stuff and the Smallville stuff but not the Metropolis stuff, with the exception of a few scenes. Just hated the nonsense plot and the uber cartoony villains.

I just watched Superman 2 again and still didn't like it either but I did like Zod and the big battle at the end, for the most part. Zod was always just this memorable thing for me which is why I'm wondering why I'm so leery of the idea of an updated version...Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I'm dying for an updated version of Superman.

Yeah, I think that's the #1 thing they KNOW they need, so I'm not worried about a Zod rehash. As I've said previously, I think they're just using the character for his name recognition with the general audience (and because he's someone Supes can actually physically fight with), but other than that, I don't expect him to resemble Terrence Stamp's character at all.

I'm confident we're definitely getting an updated version of Superman. I don't think that's even a question with this creative team behind it. That seems to be their main line of thinking. The real question is, HOW different a direction are they going to go?

 

[Wheels]

The're two great things about Superman: The Movie.

1. Reeve's Superman.

2. The score

The rest ranges from good to awful.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yeah, I think that's the #1 thing they KNOW they need, so I'm not worried about a Zod rehash. As I've said previously, I think they're just using the character for his name recognition with the general audience (and because he's someone Supes can actually physically fight with), but other than that, I don't expect him to resemble Terrence Stamp's character at all.

I'm confident we're definitely getting an updated version of Superman. I don't think that's even a question with this creative team behind it. That seems to be their main line of thinking. The real question is, HOW different a direction are they going to go?

I think that we are on the same page.

 

[SuperDaniel]

The problem with STM and probably every Superman movie so far are the villains. A superhero movie can only be great if the villain is great and we love to hate them. That why Star Wars, Jaws, Silence of the Lambs, Dark Knight are so damn good. We love the villains almost or even more than the heroes! lol

That incarnation of Lex Luthor, his whole plot and goons is just so stupid I dont have words to deal with them that are not curse words lol. They are an insult to my intellingence. They are the only thing that really makes STM from being a perfect film, imo. If it wasnt for the plot, we wouldnt get time travel bs and so many plotholes that came out of it. Also, the movie, when it gets to Metropolis, wouldnt be a cheesy fest with Otis.

However, Superman is dealt brilliantly, though.

Because of that movie, now everybody hates Luthor(not in a good way that you love to hate the villain). I really hate that incarnation. Hated in STM, hated even more in Superman Retuns. And now a lot of people never saw the REAL LUTHOR from the comics. EVER. And a lot of fans dont ever want to see him in the big screen and that is REAL SHAME, imo. Luthor is a damn good villain if done properly, like any other Superman villain, really. Man, go watch some episodes of Smallville like Memoria, Onyx, Shattered.

Luthor can be done amazingly well. They just never done it in the movies and I pray to god we're going to get comics version in the screen this time.

Same with Zod. I really dont like SII. The movie just makes no sense whatsoever. The notion of Superman simply ignoring the world never sat well with me. I really cant stand that movie. A city is being destroyed and Superman goes to a waterfall to pick flowers. Riiight. As if he doesnt have super-hearing or any of his powers. I Cant stand people talking on the moon, cant stand the terrible effects, cant stand Zod and Company cracking jokes and one-liners every 2 mins they are on screen. The only thing decent about that movie is the big fight in Metropolis.

That version of Zod is so overrated i cant put into words. I hope Nolan, Goyer and Snyder modernize him like they did with the Joker because I see potential with the character. Zod can be this amazing terrorist and strategist. I really hope they make Zod REALLY scary lthis time. People in the theaters SHOULD really FEAR ZOD like they fear aliens in Battle of LA or the nazis in Saving private ryan. It should be..look...this guy is everything Superman isnt. He is not going to think twice about melting you with his heat vision.

Just standing straight telling people to kneel before him and how he hates his jailer wont cut this time.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I've seen stuff that kids on thier home computer make that is great....but the Sy Fy channel can't make a movie with a decent monster and they have millions of dollars to play with.

That's not really fair considering many of those films are made on the cheep. They are the modern B movie. The kid comment is a bit of an exaggeration as those kids will one day get jobs at good f/x houses and have training, self or school. You also need to consider time. Those kids usually aren't working on a schedule and have a lot of time on their hands to work. Sci Fi makes those films because they bring in a lot of cash for them and are cheap to make. Why spend a ton of money on the f/x when that's ultimately not what will get people to watch it? They're no different than a Roger Corman film, besides Corman is still making those types of films, using the same crap f/x. There is something different about the experience and structure of the film as a whole. The f/x is almost certainly intentionally bad to some degree, because it can be.

 

[C. Lee]

The Donner cut of SII cuts out most of the comedy....improves it alot.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I actually think its worse than the Lester version but thats another story. It is so badly edited, time travel again, cut one of my favorite lines of the whole movie (General, would you care to step outiside?), no reason at all for Superman to revenge his beating since it never took place, more stupid scenes with Otis, The begining sucks and is unplausible. I thought the eiffel tower was amazing. And so is the recap of STM in the credits. In the Donner cut its all gone. I hate the Jor-el scenes too, he keeps saying "I anticipated this as well my son..." Yeah right! It made sense for his mother to be the one to talk to him about love and relationship. I like that addition. Oh...and even worse, now theres no reason for Superman to lose his powers really and he even has sex with her before he loses them. This make no sense whatsoever.

 

[C. Lee]

Everyone likes and dislikes different things. From your previous post it sounded like you hadn't seen the Donner version.

I don't see it as revenging his beating....but rather teaching someone he knows is a bully a lesson.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Yeah...like Superman is going to beat up everyone who is a bully instead of stopping real criminals.

I hate the Donner cut even more. Michael Thau is just a terrible editor. Selutron did a much better job with it.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I actually think its worse than the Lester version but thats another story. It is so badly edited, time travel again, cut one of my favorite lines of the whole movie (General, would you care to step outiside?), no reason at all for Superman to revenge his beating since it never took place, more stupid scenes with Otis, The begining sucks and is unplausible.

Well the film isn't a complete film. You have to remember that the Donner cut is basically pasted together from what was salvageable. It's the closest to what Donner wanted to do. The time travel for example was there because it was originally. Then they had to shoehorn it into the first movie. It's a patchwork of what could have been. It's in no way meant to be taken seriously as a full and complete work. As for STM, that film had a script that was massive and full of camp. What we eventually got was basically a chopped down and reworked version of what Mario Puzzo wrote originally. Yeah it's edited badly to some degree because they inserted scenes that they had but not necessarily completed, including screen tests just to tell what they could of the story. It's to show the potential that the second film had. Not to create an entire new film.

 

[C. Lee]

Don't you watch the news....bullies are criminals.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Well the film isn't a complete film. You have to remember that the Donner cut is basically pasted together from what was salvageable. It's the closest to what Donner wanted to do. The time travel for example was there because it was originally. Then they had to shoehorn it into the first movie. It's a patchwork of what could have been. It's in no way meant to be taken seriously as a full and complete work. As for STM, that film had a script that was massive and full of camp. What we eventually got was basically a chopped down and reworked version of what Mario Puzzo wrote originally. Yeah it's edited badly to some degree because they inserted scenes that they had but not necessarily completed, including screen tests just to tell what they could of the story. It's to show the potential that the second film had. Not to create an entire new film.

You talk to me as if didnt know everything about those movies, their history, etc. I know all the stuff u mentioned. I saw the documentaries, have the dvds, read a lot of interviews, etc etc. I just dont like the movies as much now. They have a special place in my heart but I dont think they are the holy grail or that they cant be improved...

To be honest, to me, all the Donner scenes inserted into SII are terrible. I hate them all, really. Im not judging the incompleteness of it but the plot. I just really dont like SII as a movie at all. Lester or Donner. Lester, imo, is a bit better because that is actually a complete film with a proper editor. Donner's version is just a bad film to me. Its just a bad representation of Superman just like SR is as well.

Anyways, Im just really glad we're getting a new origin and a Superman for modern times. Its time to move on from the old movies.

 

[Michael Corleone]

To be honest, to me, all the Donner scenes inserted are terrible. I hate them all, really. Im not judging the incompleteness of it but the plot. I just really dont like SII as a movie at all. Lester or Donner. Lester, imo, is a bit better because that is actually a complete film with a proper editor.

As I said before it's a patchwork of what could have been...including the plot. You're judging the plot of an unfinished work. The Donner cut was made for fans so they could see what they had been working on before Donner was fired. Of course the scenes are terrible. They were unfinished and what they had to work with. It's an unfair assessment of an unfinished film AND story.