The Official Mitt Romney Thread III

[Hotwire]

I'll say this on the whole Catholic Church/contraception issue. They also teach that premarital sex is a sin. Now, I lived in El Paso, TX for three years and a large part of the population is Mexican Catholic. Anyone want to take a guess as to how many single mothers, many of them underage, that I met on an almost daily basis? My point is, Catholics, like most religions, the followers pick and choose which rules they'll follow. All while their religious leaders naively ignore it.

 

[Matt]

Morris lost his credibility when he said McCain suspending his campaign (after the economy tanked) to rejoin Senate to solve the crisis sealed his winning the presidency.

I can't hold the Hilary v. Condi thing as much because all of us thought the former was getting the nomination.

Honestly, I could see Hillary being the Democratic John McCain should she run. She will be a party elder whose relevance is fading and has to continuously shift her positions and sacrifice her ideas to keep up with the ever changing and evolving party, very possibly against a younger and more charismatic opponent like Rubio.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Unless I'm mistaken, no one is telling Catholics to use birth control. They're telling them that it should be covered in their employee health insurance plan.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Honestly, I could see Hillary being the Democratic John McCain should she run. She will be a party elder whose relevance is fading and has to continuously shift her positions and sacrifice her ideas to keep up with the ever changing and evolving party, very possibly against a younger and more charismatic opponent like Rubio.

I can actually see that happening.

 

[stillanerd]

What do you mean when you say, "abortifacients?"

Abortifacients, as commonly defined, is "a substance that induces abortion." This includes mifepristone, which is commonly known as RU-486.

 

[stillanerd]

I'll say this on the whole Catholic Church/contraception issue. They also teach that premarital sex is a sin. Now, I lived in El Paso, TX for three years and a large part of the population is Mexican Catholic. Anyone want to take a guess as to how many single mothers, many of them underage, that I met on an almost daily basis? My point is, Catholics, like most religions, the followers pick and choose which rules they'll follow. All while their religious leaders naively ignore it.

True, but just because this happens does not automatically mean that the Catholic Church should just lax their standards, as it were. Especially since the Catholic Church believes that Truth is universal and not which ever way the wind blows.

Honestly, I could see Hillary being the Democratic John McCain should she run. She will be a party elder whose relevance is fading and has to continuously shift her positions and sacrifice her ideas to keep up with the ever changing and evolving party, very possibly against a younger and more charismatic opponent like Rubio.

Marco Rubio would definitely be a likely choice to run in 2016, as he's been a Republican favorite since he won his seat. In fact, some Conservative circles believe that Romney should have picked Rubio as his VP running mate instead of Paul Ryan, although realistically that probably wasn't going to happen since Rubio is a junior Senator whose only been in the Senate for just two years.

Unless I'm mistaken, no one is telling Catholics to use birth control. They're telling them that it should be covered in their employee health insurance plan.

But that's the point: it provides the ways and means for those covered by their insurance plans to potentially use birth control. And in the eyes of the Catholic Church, them providing the ways and means for someone else to potentially commit a grave and mortal sin makes them just as guilty of committing a grave and mortal sin. True, the person covered under that insurance plan doesn't have to use birth control, but it's still being paid for by their provider regardless.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Morris lost his credibility when he said McCain suspending his campaign (after the economy tanked) to rejoin Senate to solve the crisis sealed his winning the presidency.

I can't hold the Hilary v. Condi thing as much because all of us thought the former was getting the nomination.

Also the latter has no desire to run for elected office. Besides, she would not get the black vote for the Republicans either.

They need a candidate that can split either the Black vote or the Latino vote.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the church employee's still have to choose to use the contraception, correct? The insurance companies aren't running into the Catholic's bedrooms like Trojan Man and forcing them to use protection, right?

The claims of a 1st Amendment violation are laughable.

 

[stillanerd]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the church employee's still have to choose to use the contraception, correct? The insurance companies aren't running into the Catholic's bedrooms like Trojan Man and forcing them to use protection, right?

The claims of a 1st Amendment violation are laughable.

Again, the Catholic Church is not arguing and has never argued that the HHS mandate is forcing their parishioners to use artificial contraception and abotifacients against their will. What they are arguing is that the HHS mandate, by forcing them to make available artificial contraceptives and abortifacients to their employees, is that it makes it easier for those employees to potentially commit a grave and mortal sin. And in the eyes of the Catholic Church, a person who provides someone the ways and means for a person to potentially commit a mortal sin makes them just as guilty of committing a grave and mortal sin.

 

[Marvolo]

Again, the Catholic Church is not arguing and has never argued that the HHS mandate is forcing their parishioners to use artificial contraception and abotifacients against their will. What they are arguing is that the HHS mandate, by forcing them to make available artificial contraceptives and abortifacients to their employees, is that it makes it easier for those employees to potentially commit a grave and mortal sin. And in the eyes of the Catholic Church, a person who provides someone the ways and means for a person to potentially commit a mortal sin makes them just as guilty of committing a grave and mortal sin.

Maybe the catholic church should stay out of people's personal lives. That would solve their problem.

Couldnt the government make it possible for religious organizations to opt out of it? Religious orgs opt out of other things so why not this?

 

[Excel]

Honestly, I could see Hillary being the Democratic John McCain should she run. She will be a party elder whose relevance is fading and has to continuously shift her positions and sacrifice her ideas to keep up with the ever changing and evolving party, very possibly against a younger and more charismatic opponent like Rubio.

I don't think so; the Clintons are more popular right now than at any point post 1998. In 2004, nobody was excited at the idea of McCain running in 2008. #Hillary2016 is already trending. She will disappoint a lot of people if she doesnt run. She is more liked and respected now than in20078. Hillary would be the first woman President. Her candidacy would far different than it was in 2008 and than McCains was. What is funny the 2016 Republican field, with Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, John Thune, etc is almost certainly going to be younger than the 2016 Democratic field. I think a better comparison for a potential Hillary 2016 campaign is George H.W. Bush in 1988, to be frank.

Ryan, Jindal, and especially Rubio honestly cannot win. For all the appeal of Rubio on paper, the guy is a tea partier. A tea partier will never win a general election, especially with popular former President's Obama and Bill Clinton campaigning hard. That is the Republicans problem. Obama won because he was a "movement" guy. The tea party stands for ideals which mainstream America will never accept. Ryan will be a much more formidable candidate than Rubio for that simple fact. Even if Rubio would likely win Florida, his standing in the remaining swing states would be quite weak.

Obama's reelection is certainly evidence that Bill Clinton's influence is extremely high. Clinton gave Obama the post debate bounce. Obama will more than likely be viewed more favorably in 2016 than he was in 2012. These 2 guys will almost assure Hillary wins should she run in 2016. Young people don't just vote for other young people. The past 6 years have seen the younger vote only increasing for the Democratic candidate - this generation is just about lost to the modern day republicans.

I think the 2016 Democratic field will be quite predictable. If Hillary runs, I think you will see few other democrats come in to really challenge her. If she doesn't run, the female NY senator, Sherrod Brown, Deval Patrick, Joe Biden would all possible names. Tough to know who to favor. I think Hillary easily wins the nomination if she runs, though.

Republicans, it is Christie, Jindal, Rubio, Ryan, and a few others. Rubio's charisma is overrated (he is seriously nothing special at all), and he is a tea partier. Jindal is the same. Ryan, you can see the future but his views may be too conservative. Chris Christie is the probably the best bet. I see the primary season being long and drawn out, again.

TBH, a Ryan/Christie ticket is probably the Republicans best bet. They both seem very fit for the roles. I would bet it is Clinton vs. Ryan in 2016, with Hillary winning. Doubt she loses in 2020 either. The economy would be due for a drop around 2024, PERHAPS the republicans will have changed enough by then to really compete.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Again, the Catholic Church is not arguing and has never argued that the HHS mandate is forcing their parishioners to use artificial contraception and abotifacients against their will. What they are arguing is that the HHS mandate, by forcing them to make available artificial contraceptives and abortifacients to their employees, is that it makes it easier for those employees to potentially commit a grave and mortal sin. And in the eyes of the Catholic Church, a person who provides someone the ways and means for a person to potentially commit a mortal sin makes them just as guilty of committing a grave and mortal sin.

I think it's funny that the Catholic Church is so up in arms about this, but harbors and cover up Child Molestors. How about the turn the Child Molestors over to the proper authorities and they can be exempt from the HHS Mandate.

 

[Marvolo]

I think it's funny that the Catholic Church is so up in arms about this, but harbors and cover up Child Molestors. How about the turn the Child Molestors over to the proper authorities and they can be exempt from the HHS Mandate.

Thats a great idea.

 

[stillanerd]

Maybe the catholic church should stay out of people's personal lives. That would solve their problem.

But that's just it: they're not going from bedroom to bedroom forcing people to convert to their way of life. They're saying, "Here's what we believe and it's your choice whether or not to join us. But if you do decide to join the Church, we expect you to follow the rules."

Couldnt the government make it possible for religious organizations to opt out of it? Religious orgs opt out of other things so why not this?

That's exactly what these Catholic institutions are arguing for. They're saying "You gave exception to some of these other organizations. Why aren't we allowed to have them?"

 

[Marvolo]

But that's just it: they're not going from bedroom to bedroom forcing people to convert to their way of life. They're saying, "Here's what we believe and it's your choice whether or not to join us. But if you do decide to join the Church, we expect you to follow the rules."



That's exactly what these Catholic institutions are arguing for. They're saying "You gave exception to some of these other organizations. Why aren't we allowed to have them?"

If they are wanting exceptions then they should have them. I dont think the church should have authority outside its walls nor should the government have authority in their walls beyond the obvious law enforcement.

 

[ShaDynasty]

I think it's funny that the Catholic Church is so up in arms about this, but harbors and cover up Child Molestors. How about the turn the Child Molestors over to the proper authorities and they can be exempt from the HHS Mandate.

Ah, the always ignorant "priests are rapists!1!!!!11!!" comment. Thanks for that.

 

[ShaDynasty]

If they are wanting exceptions then they should have them. I dont think the church should have authority outside its walls nor should the government have authority in their walls beyond the obvious law enforcement.

That's the point though. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops condemned the mandate. Hospitals and schools will close instead of complying with these demands. They want the exemption, but the Obama administration won't grant it. Too buys drone-striking the Middle East I guess.

 

[Lord]

It seems more like rapists became priests as an excuse, but the catholic church sure has a lot of hypocrisies.

 

[ShaDynasty]

I'll say this on the whole Catholic Church/contraception issue. They also teach that premarital sex is a sin. Now, I lived in El Paso, TX for three years and a large part of the population is Mexican Catholic. Anyone want to take a guess as to how many single mothers, many of them underage, that I met on an almost daily basis? My point is, Catholics, like most religions, the followers pick and choose which rules they'll follow. All while their religious leaders naively ignore it.

The Catholic Church teaches absolute truth, so the leaders don't "naively ignore" how pre-marital sex is rampant. Church leaders aren't going to change 2000 years of Church teaching because the times are changing.

 

[ShaDynasty]

It seems more like rapists became priests as an excuse, but the catholic church sure has a lot of hypocrisies.

Claiming rapists become priests is as ignorant a comment as I've ever seen. It's the uneducated people like you who make out the Catholic Church to be a pedophile-harboring institution.

And, please enlighten me: what are these hypocrisies? Because I can surely shoot them down with only a tidbit of theology.

 

[stillanerd]

I think it's funny that the Catholic Church is so up in arms about this, but harbors and cover up Child Molestors. How about the turn the Child Molestors over to the proper authorities and they can be exempt from the HHS Mandate.

That was definitely wrong of the Bishops of the Catholic Church to do, no question. But that doesn't mean they should also violate something else that they regard as sinful.

If they are wanting exceptions then they should have them. I dont think the church should have authority outside its walls nor should the government have authority in their walls beyond the obvious law enforcement.

Exactly. But, from the Church's point of view, the government is currently trying to assert their authority in their walls because they see the government telling them that they aren't allowed to practice what they preach with regards to the HHS mandate stating birth control must be provided in insurance plans. And they believe that if the government can go against the clause "congress shall make no law...prohibiting the free exercise [of religion]" over this, then it opens the door for the government to dictate to the Catholic Church and other religions on how practice their religions in other matters.

 

[Lord]

Claiming rapists become priests is as ignorant a comment as I've ever seen. It's the uneducated people like you who make out the Catholic Church to be a pedophile-harboring institution.

And, please enlighten me: what are these hypocrisies? Because I can surely shoot them down with only a tidbit of theology.

Calm down dude, i didn't say the Catholic Church was made of rapists, only that the priests accused of being so were probably rapists already before they became priests, i'm not saying every molester decides to become a priest.

Most priests are good people with good intentions devoted to their religion, it's just one or two that appear now and then that ruin the church's reputation.

As for the Church's hypocrisies, i thought that was simple, the vatican. Even catholic people i know agree, this point has even been referenced a lot of times if i'm not mistaken.

 

[ShaDynasty]

Calm down dude, i didn't say the Catholic Church was made of rapists, only that the priests accused of being so were probably rapists already before they became priests, i'm not saying every molester decides to become a priest.

Most priests are good people with good intentions devoted to their religion, it's just one or two that appear now and then that ruin the church's reputation.

As for the Church's hypocrisies, i thought that was simple, the vatican. Even catholic people i know agree, this point has even been referenced a lot of times if i'm not mistaken.

What's hypocritical about the Vatican? You didn't say what it was.

 

[Marvolo]

The Catholic Church teaches absolute truth, so the leaders don't "naively ignore" how pre-marital sex is rampant. Church leaders aren't going to change 2000 years of Church teaching because the times are changing.

They adopted evolution surely they can bend on this. But i do think the government could work with them to come to an agreeable solution.

 

[Marvolo]

What's hypocritical about the Vatican? You didn't say what it was.

The roman catholic church had their nose in government affairs and dictated, manipulated, and infiltrated government affairs for hundreds of years but now when a government org tries to do the same to them its somehow wrong. Thats hypocritical.