The Official PS4 Thread

[X Knight]

Sony is just not having a good week. Bethesda has just announced that neither Fallout 4 or Skyrim: Remastered will have mod support on the PS4.

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/ps4-mod-update/2016/09/09/199

I'm hearing from a lot of people, and they all seem pissed. Some feel it's time to support Microsoft now.

holy ****!! is this for real??!!

Console Mods is a big reason why I want to get Skyrim Remastered. If that's not going to be possible, and if it's mainly because of Sony's policies, then that takes away a major selling point and feature for the game!

If this is true, it's yet another push for me to go with the S. Because this isn't just about 2 games ( Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remastered ). It's about all future games that might support console mods, from Bethesda and other companies.

No. Sony isn't having a good week.

 

[SpideyVille]

The thing is, how many games actually have mod support, or an extensive community behind them?

Not to mention, Microsoft has had their own issues with fallout 4 mods, so it's not like it's been a flawless transition.

 

[X Knight]

The thing is, how many games actually have mod support, or an extensive community behind them?

Not to mention, Microsoft has had their own issues with fallout 4 mods, so it's not like it's been a flawless transition.

but at least it's available on the X1. at least they let gamers use that feature.

MS also lets users have EA Access on the X1. Sony turned it down because they deemed it "not of interest" to their customers ( and so they can promote their own PS Now service ).

MS brought BC to the X1 after customers demanded it. Sony refuses, again, to push people towards PS Now.

MS offers a 4K player with the S. Sony doesn't because they deem 4K streaming to be where the interest lies.

MS is open to cross platform play. Sony isn't.

Mods have been advertised as a feature for Skyrim Remaster. Now, only the X1 will be able to support that promised feature.

and for any future game that wants to support console mods, that means MS consoles will be the place to play those games if you want to use mods. I was hoping Bioware would allow console mods for their future games, starting with ME: Andromeda and the next DA game. If they do decide to allow that, and again, the X1 is the only console that will support that, that's a big deal for me.

and if console mods fail to take off because the PS4 won't support them, then that's another mark against Sony. Their stubbornness and refusal to play ball means the fun gets taken away from everyone.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Hopefully all this bad press motivates Sony to kick their first parties in the asses so they actually have a fall lineup next year.

 

[Solidus]

I had some time to think and this is how I feel now.

Console iterations are a bad idea. At first I was open to it, but they really are pointless, yeah both can brag about 4K but in reality both companies MS and Sony are beholden to the original consoles and can’t make “exclusive” games that may take more advantage. Consoles are made to be one system with no change. That’s what makes it different than PC gaming that worries (these days not back in the old 90’s days of PC Gaming) about small tech upgrades. Consoles are made for their simplicity and uniformity.

Sony made some blunders with this, power wise it actually is quite more powerful but they seem to be utilizing all of that power to the 4K element. Even though for most right now, and from a gaming perspective the lack of UHD is not a big deal, but to me it was more so. Sony owns UHD/TV’s that play 4K…and they did not put it on there? Seriously? X1 put it on their base model, (though they are struggling to gain ground is probably their main reason). But I feel overall that was arrogant of Sony. I was going to get a Pro but now I have reconsidered.

Even though I am being doom and gloom on the Pro, I think Sony hopefully will focus mainly on just continuing the service they have started with this generation. Good games. Some say Scorpio will destroy this…nah. I don’t think Pro or Scorpio will do much because they are beholden to the base consoles, and only so far you can go. Most console gamers don’t care about those incremental upgrades.

Sony still has a 2-1 lead, and with the Slim and PSVR coming out I’m sure for the next year they will dominate. But having said that the lack of UHD and their mod decisions has been two of the worst decisions Sony has made in quite a long time I’d say since 2008 when they started turning the boat around for the PS3. I don’t think it will kill them, or take them off the top, but I think they need to be careful moving forward.

But as a final statement to both the Pro and Scorpio, they are not needed, and actually I really hope the next cycle does not do this. This seems to be an experimentation, and they use the excuse of 4K which next time won’t be an excuse. I have a feeling both will not really do much.

 

[Havok83]

I had some time to think and this is how I feel now.

Console iterations are a bad idea. At first I was open to it, but they really are pointless, yeah both can brag about 4K but in reality both companies MS and Sony are beholden to the original consoles and can’t make “exclusive” games that may take more advantage. Consoles are made to be one system with no change. That’s what makes it different than PC gaming that worries (these days not back in the old 90’s days of PC Gaming) about small tech upgrades. Consoles are made for their simplicity and uniformity.

That may have been the case back in 1986 or 1996 but now in 2016, that simple view of a console should be is no longer valid. That died in the PS2 era but even then we started to see seeds of this trend start to take root. The concept has evolved and the trend since last gen has been more towards PC-like devices.

 

[Iceman]

Can this mod decision be reversed?

 

[X Knight]

Can this mod decision be reversed?

hope so.

 

[SpideyVille]

Based on their wording, they said "if and when", which makes me think that they brought this out into the light and purposely threw Sony under the bus to force their hand.

Either Sony caves and changes their stance, or I don't see Bethesda and Sony having a good relationship moving forward.

 

[X Knight]

yeah. maybe the "public shaming" will force Sony to compromise or whatever.

hopefully the negative reaction to the lack of 4K Blu-ray with the Pro will also make Sony change their stance.

hey, it worked with MS during the X1 launch.

oh, and Bethesda going exclusive to MS and PC would be something.

hope it doesn't come to that, though.

and I hope Sony and Beth can get together to resolve the PS4 mod issue by October 28 ( Skyrim release ). cuz I will be playing Skyrim that weekend, and I will be playing the version that lets me use all promised features.

 

[Solidus]

There will be no exclusive"ness" with MS between Bethesda. Sony controls almost 70% of the market between the two giants. That would be suicide for Bethesda to do so.

 

[Solidus]

That may have been the case back in 1986 or 1996 but now in 2016, that simple view of a console should be is no longer valid. That died in the PS2 era but even then we started to see seeds of this trend start to take root. The concept has evolved and the trend since last gen has been more towards PC-like devices.

I don't think we saw the seeds of it, evolution of hardware yes, hard-drives, network connection etc. Nintendo tried it late in the game with the 64. Regardless if one thinks there is seeds, I don't think it will bring much to fruition for either of them.

 

[Marvolo]

are the analog sticks more durable? Bc outside of battery, thats the only advantage this controller could have. If not, Id stick to the old ones


LMAO at them throwing Sony under the bus

Idk about the stick durability. It's confirmed tho that it does use the same battery, but there is some anecdotal evidence indicating this new controller has better battery life, but ymmv.

One neat new feature is

if the controller is plugged into the PS4, you can force it to communicate only over the wired connection. No such option was available for the old controller. Interestingly, this setting also appears on the original PS4 console if the new controller is plugged into it.

It allows for quicker response times which helps with fighting games and other types of games.

 

[Marvolo]

I had some time to think and this is how I feel now.

Console iterations are a bad idea. At first I was open to it, but they really are pointless, yeah both can brag about 4K but in reality both companies MS and Sony are beholden to the original consoles and can’t make “exclusive” games that may take more advantage. Consoles are made to be one system with no change. That’s what makes it different than PC gaming that worries (these days not back in the old 90’s days of PC Gaming) about small tech upgrades. Consoles are made for their simplicity and uniformity.

Sony made some blunders with this, power wise it actually is quite more powerful but they seem to be utilizing all of that power to the 4K element. Even though for most right now, and from a gaming perspective the lack of UHD is not a big deal, but to me it was more so. Sony owns UHD/TV’s that play 4K…and they did not put it on there? Seriously? X1 put it on their base model, (though they are struggling to gain ground is probably their main reason). But I feel overall that was arrogant of Sony. I was going to get a Pro but now I have reconsidered.

Even though I am being doom and gloom on the Pro, I think Sony hopefully will focus mainly on just continuing the service they have started with this generation. Good games. Some say Scorpio will destroy this…nah. I don’t think Pro or Scorpio will do much because they are beholden to the base consoles, and only so far you can go. Most console gamers don’t care about those incremental upgrades.

Sony still has a 2-1 lead, and with the Slim and PSVR coming out I’m sure for the next year they will dominate. But having said that the lack of UHD and their mod decisions has been two of the worst decisions Sony has made in quite a long time I’d say since 2008 when they started turning the boat around for the PS3. I don’t think it will kill them, or take them off the top, but I think they need to be careful moving forward.

But as a final statement to both the Pro and Scorpio, they are not needed, and actually I really hope the next cycle does not do this. This seems to be an experimentation, and they use the excuse of 4K which next time won’t be an excuse. I have a feeling both will not really do much.

They don't need to make exclusive games. Future games are coming out with HDR and 4K resolution and higher framrates. The old consoles simply won't be able to access the full resolution and the HDR color space and will run the games at a lower framrate.

 

[Marvolo]

The thing is, how many games actually have mod support, or an extensive community behind them?

Not to mention, Microsoft has had their own issues with fallout 4 mods, so it's not like it's been a flawless transition.

Well you can bet your ass that all future Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scroll games will have mod support on XBOne. And they probably won't be the only developers that take advantage of this. And the mod community from PC is feeding and taking part in the now existent console mod community so it's pretty extensive already.

 

[X Knight]

Well you can bet your ass that all future Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scroll games will have mod support on XBOne. And they probably won't be the only developers that take advantage of this. And the mod community from PC is feeding and taking part in the now existent console mod community so it's pretty extensive already.

yeah. and that would be a big loss for Sony and the PS4, imo.

As a PS4 owner, I certainly would feel left out. and I'd certainly start giving the Xbox a more serious look. I'm already doing that after this week.

Even if I don't end up using mods that much, I'd still like to have the option to use them and try them out.

same with the 4K Blu-ray player. I don't buy or rent very many movies that much anyways. But when I do, I get the latest format that my tv supports. Right now, that's Blu-Ray. If I'm going to switch to a 4K world, I'm going to want to get the 4K versions of movies when possible.

So, even though it's not a feature I'd use very often, I still would like to have that option available. and if it's available as part of my gaming console, meaning I don't have to spend money on a separate device, that makes it much more convenient for me.

Having a 4K player built into the Pro would save me money - money that I could use towards a 4K TV to enjoy the full benefits of the Pro. That would be a strong incentive to upgrade to the Pro.

 

[Solidus]

They don't need to make exclusive games. Future games are coming out with HDR and 4K resolution and higher framrates. The old consoles simply won't be able to access the full resolution and the HDR color space and will run the games at a lower framrate.

That's not the point I'm making. Most people right now are not really going to take advantage or care about 4K. And just a resolution bump will only attract so many people right now. Hence it won't be really a big deal.

 

[zenith16]

That's not the point I'm making. Most people right now are not really going to take advantage or care about 4K. And just a resolution bump will only attract so many people right now. Hence it won't be really a big deal.

yeah I think sony took the approached they did due to a past experience when they though people were gonna buy flat screen plasma tv's and alot of people took their time with it buyer wise, or saw other tv's that were better then the plasma tv 's them selves that were flat screen's them selves.

there's always some thing better around the corner. And they didn't want to invest and make that same mistake again

 

[Iceman]

yeah. maybe the "public shaming" will force Sony to compromise or whatever.

hopefully the negative reaction to the lack of 4K Blu-ray with the Pro will also make Sony change their stance.

hey, it worked with MS during the X1 launch.

oh, and Bethesda going exclusive to MS and PC would be something.

hope it doesn't come to that, though.

and I hope Sony and Beth can get together to resolve the PS4 mod issue by October 28 ( Skyrim release ). cuz I will be playing Skyrim that weekend, and I will be playing the version that lets me use all promised features.

There will be no exclusive"ness" with MS between Bethesda. Sony controls almost 70% of the market between the two giants. That would be suicide for Bethesda to do so.

Sony's strength this gen may mean that they won't feel pressured to make wholesale changes unlike Microsoft who were pretty much forced into it with how toxic the X1 reception one was and once that started showing up in the ratio of sales between the 2 companies.

 

[Iceman]

One neat new feature is



It allows for quicker response times which helps with fighting games and other types of games.

That is pretty cool.

yeah. and that would be a big loss for Sony and the PS4, imo.

As a PS4 owner, I certainly would feel left out. and I'd certainly start giving the Xbox a more serious look. I'm already doing that after this week.

Even if I don't end up using mods that much, I'd still like to have the option to use them and try them out.

same with the 4K Blu-ray player. I don't buy or rent very many movies that much anyways. But when I do, I get the latest format that my tv supports. Right now, that's Blu-Ray. If I'm going to switch to a 4K world, I'm going to want to get the 4K versions of movies when possible.

So, even though it's not a feature I'd use very often, I still would like to have that option available. and if it's available as part of my gaming console, meaning I don't have to spend money on a separate device, that makes it much more convenient for me.

Having a 4K player built into the Pro would save me money - money that I could use towards a 4K TV to enjoy the full benefits of the Pro. That would be a strong incentive to upgrade to the Pro.

It's a benefit to even people who would only want to buy the odd 4K movie or just their favourite films as those kind of guys are not in the market for an expensive standalone device at all.

 

[Havok83]

I don't think we saw the seeds of it, evolution of hardware yes, hard-drives, network connection etc. Nintendo tried it late in the game with the 64. Regardless if one thinks there is seeds, I don't think it will bring much to fruition for either of them.

We actually did. The PS2 introduced upgrading/adding hardware to your system in the form of a network adapter and HDD which the latter became a standard feature with the PS3. Thats as PC as it comes and one of the arguments against it. Last gen we started seeing the shifts with consoles moving more towards PCs. Online play became a standard, games became patchable and the consoles had web browsers. On the PS3, some games required installs. Heck, you could even install Linux on it and use it as a PC. You could remotely connect with your PC to access media files. When my desktop went down and needed repair, my PS3 became a temporary replacement. None of this were really associated with consoles prior to the PS3 generation. Maybe online play, but it wasn't ubiquitous yet. The PS3's slogan was "It only does everything" and that referred to it being more than simply a traditional console bc that concept had evolved considerably.

This gen, every game requires an install now, the systems are much more socially connected, the architecture is built on PC x86 and we are seeing mid console upgrades. MS, themselves are really pushing Windows 10 with the XB1. Exactly how havent we seen an evolving trend towards more PC-like consoles? The closed isolated concept of a traditional game console that was once the case with the likes of the SNES, PS1, etc... no longer exists in 2016

 

[Solidus]

We actually did. The PS2 introduced upgrading/adding hardware to your system in the form of a network adapter and HDD which the latter became a standard feature with the PS3. Thats as PC as it comes and one of the arguments against it. Last gen we started seeing the shifts with consoles moving more towards PCs. Online play became a standard, games became patchable and the consoles had web browsers. On the PS3, some games required installs. Heck, you could even install Linux on it and use it as a PC. You could remotely connect with your PC to access media files. When my desktop went down and needed repair, my PS3 became a temporary replacement. None of this were really associated with consoles prior to the PS3 generation. Maybe online play, but it wasn't ubiquitous yet. The PS3's slogan was "It only does everything" and that referred to it being more than simply a traditional console bc that concept had evolved considerably.

This gen, every game requires an install now, the systems are much more socially connected, the architecture is built on PC x86 and we are seeing mid console upgrades. MS, themselves are really pushing Windows 10 with the XB1. Exactly how havent we seen an evolving trend towards more PC-like consoles? The closed isolated concept of a traditional game console that was once the case with the likes of the SNES, PS1, etc... no longer exists in 2016

Requiring installs is not something that points to incremental upgrades that are not needed. You don't need a Pro to play any PS4 game. Hard-drives are a natural evolution because of things like digital downloads, and the size of games today. Same with the internet, it was just where gaming was going. Having a superficial upgrade that is not NEEDED is my point.

What you have mentioned is just common evolution of electronics. You might as well say that they have been following this trend since 1977 with the Atari because it used the ideas of "silicon chips. Or that they used CD's in the early 90's like computers.

Also the internet was on consoles a lot earlier than that in Japan just FYI. There is evolution, but there are still standards that consoles follow, and one is that you can play any game that is for that system, in uniformity. With PC that is not the case...at all. Some games you can't even play. So now just giving it a superficial upgrade is just stupid to me.

But saying that they are evolving like PC's...they've been doing that since the 70's. But the point still stands the whole point of a console is that I can play any game for that system with no problems. My old PC can't play the new games, at all. That's the simplicity that consoles are loved for. Now that they are trying to create iterations I think in the long haul it will backfire on them. But that's me. But it will have to stay closed in many ways, because again, if I even own the lowest PS4 I have to be able to play any PS4 game. Where even my 4 year old laptop can't play today's games. I will keep repeating that it's uniformity and simplicity is why people buy gaming machines.

I hope I'm making sense, but my point is that uniformity-simplicity is the CORE aspect of a console. And why many use it. Most don't want to look at specs and worry about not being able to play a game decently or not.

 

[Solidus]

Let me try this again:

Consoles are about simplicity, and accessibility. As time has gone on computers and computer gaming moves so quickly in tech, it makes it expensive, and complex. I used to be a hardcore PC gamer, and it was. But now most PC gamers relish in that now a days many of them are big tech junkies and tinkerers.

But consoles were always and more so lately have been about simplicity. Not just for us but for the developers. We all know that I will be able to play the last PS3 game like The Last of Us as easy as I could my first PS3 game Resistance. It is why people buy these things because they want to play games as simply as possible.

Hard drives and internet functionality is just where gaming was going period. On a macro level. It was not about having better graphics, it was a massive part of the gaming world that was being introduced.

Sony with the PS2 and the network adapter messed up, it's why the 360 kicked the PS3 hard because the original Xbox had online play as a uniform functionality and it was where gaming was going. Sony was stubborn and thought it was just a phase.

Hard-drives were just an evolutionary upgrade but one that became uniform. Just a necessity. Mainly because of the digital downloading era. Just like CD's and memory cards started to come out because some things games just require.

But this is something different that could lead down a dangerous road. The Pro really adds nothing to the gameplay or functionality of the games. It just makes it look a little prettier. It could snowball into something more. Right now MS and Sony are saying that every PS4 game made this generation will play on both. I could see them breaking that rule, I mean Nintendo got slammed when games like Perfect Dark required the damn expansion pack. It blew up in their face.

I could see someone looking at the Pro and Slim this Christmas and saying...well what does it do different? If they hear it's more powerful, that will start to create confusion and take away the core aspect of simplicity and uniformity with the general audience. I just see doing down this rabbit hole is way different then having different hard-drive sizes that really don't do much to the games. Just limits how many one can have installed.

I think going this route could lead to some exclusives for the Pro/Scorpio they say no now, but there was really no showmanship of something like PS4.5's either. This takes away and starts to muddle the waters where the GA may start to get confused and just walk away from consoles such as these. After seeing the Pro I think it just seems pointless and possibly dangerous if they go down this road further. Uniformity of power and simplicity of use and accessibility (that is a huge one) is big. People may start thinking they have to have a PS4 Pro to play certain games, and if they are told not they may get more confused and wonder why the Pro even really exists. Like I said now they can use the 4K thing as an excuse but if they try this again with the PS5 let's say they may not have that rock to hide behind.

Hope this is clearer.

I just think this is a dangerous and foolish route for consoles to start to go down. Because I think it takes away the core aspect on what makes console gaming what it is.

 

[X Knight]

Sony's strength this gen may mean that they won't feel pressured to make wholesale changes unlike Microsoft who were pretty much forced into it with how toxic the X1 reception one was and once that started showing up in the ratio of sales between the 2 companies.

sadly, you are right. Hope that won't be the case, though.

If that happens, that means Sony really has become arrogant, complacent, and tone deaf to their customer base.

And that would only push me further towards MS and back to the X1.

That is pretty cool.

It's a benefit to even people who would only want to buy the odd 4K movie or just their favourite films as those kind of guys are not in the market for an expensive standalone device at all.

and I've seen many argue that 4K streaming is nowhere near the quality of an actual 4K disc.

so if the Pro is catering to the hard core, demanding gaming crowd, who own a 4K tv and want the best graphics and visual fidelity, you'd think that crowd would also want the best visual fidelity and quality when it comes to the movies they watch on the 4K tv.

Plus, if they already own a 4K tv, then most of those smart tvs already offer streaming services like Netflix and YouTube. So, the PS4 would be kind of redundant in that regard, offering no extra value beyond being a game machine.

 

[X Knight]

I am glad to see that there's an extra USB port in the back of the Pro. So, 2 USB ports in front and 1 port in back.

now, if only we could use an external drive.