The Official Superman Thread - Part 1

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TheIncredibleSk said:
Eh I want Clark to be the real person. Superman is what he does. He wants to help people but he still wants to have a life outside that.
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It doesn't matter what you want in this case. You want another character, not Superman, apparently.
 
Anubis said:
Then Superman should come out of this pretty awesome.
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As long as its not silver age based.Im rooting for Superman to go bak to his Golden age roots and ignore the silliness of Silver age.

Kal Kent said:
I don't believe that Clark is a disguise, nor is Superman. I believe that each represents his core self in the situation that is needed. We all act differently around different people. Aren't you the same person when talking to your parents, children, or coworkers? Yet in each of those situations don't you act differently for whatever purpose is needed?
Clark is not Batman. He does not need an alias, per say. If you took away the secret identity, he would still be the same person regardless if he was wearing the cape or a suit and tie.
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Good pionts
 
The 'silliness' of the Silver Age inspired two of the best Superman stories of all time.
 
Silliness in comics? Get that **** out of here! :cmad:
 
TruerToTheCore said:
It doesn't matter what you want in this case. You want another character, not Superman, apparently.
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:whatever: The Superman and Clark relationship has been done differently for years. But Clark has been the real person since 1986. He was the real person in the cartoon, in Smallville, in Lois & CLARK, etc. So how is it what I want not Superman when what I want has been written multiple times before. :whatever:
 
Zionite said:
As long as its not silver age based.Im rooting for Superman to go bak to his Golden age roots and ignore the silliness of Silver age.
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I'm more of a Golden Age Superman fan than a Silver Age fan, but by far the most creative and successful period of Superman's existence was the Silver Age.

TheIncredibleSk said:
:whatever: The Superman and Clark relationship has been done differently for years. But Clark has been the real person since 1986. He was the real person in the cartoon, in Smallville, in Lois & CLARK, etc. So how is it what I want not Superman when what I want has been written multiple times before. :whatever:
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And Superman has been a consistent failure since 1986. A good amount of people basically consider 1986 to be the last time the real Superman actually appeared, and everything since is apocrypha to them.

For almost 50 years, Superman was the real person and Clark Kent a disguise. A necessary disguise, bordering on an alternate personality at times, but a disguise nonetheless. Every other superhero is the same person in and out of costume. Peter Parker and Spider-Man are one and the same, as are Hal Jordan, Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, etc. There is one personality and one persona for those characters in or out of costume. Only Bruce comes anywhere close to what Clark does, but it's nowhere near as important to him-an annoyance at most. Wiki other superheroes civilian identities and you're directed to a page about their superheroic identity in most cases, unless it's a character like Barry Allen or Hal Jordan where there have been multiple people as the character. But wiki Clark Kent and there is an entry just on him. If Superman is just Clark Kent in a costume, then that weakens both Superman AND Clark Kent.

"Superman, who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel in his bare hands, and who, DISGUISED as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great Metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American way."

Superman isn't Superman if Clark is the real person and Superman just "what he can do."
 
Bah I call bull on your statement. So me that stats for this good amount and please let them not be from a message board. The weakness of current Superman stories is they try so hard to make him an alien trying to fit in. He was raised on earth for his whole life. He shouldn't be an alien any more then any other guy raised in Kansas. But they persist in making him an outsider who can't get the human race. They make him an outside who can't get the problems other folks are having. You can't have the character be Clark Kent in reality but make his Superman person much more real then his Kent identity.

"Superman isn't Superman if Clark is the real person and Superman just "what he can do.""

Your describing the precrisis version and thats all your doing. The key to the "new" Superman is that Superman now needs to be even more of an idea or symbol. He can't be married, he can't show fear, he's got to be godlike. Clark Kent can have girl troubles, money issues, job issues, dental issues, decide if he wants onions on his hot dog. Superman has got to be this godlike alien that has people worshiping him and it just makes it impossible for this god to be a mere man named Clark Kent.

But please show me this data that supports the idea that Superman has been a consistent failure since 1986. I'm sure many would disagree as they name quite a bit of their favorite arcs from 86 to 2011.
 
storyteller said:
Bah I call bull on your statement. So me that stats for this good amount and please let them not be from a message board. The weakness of current Superman stories is they try so hard to make him an alien trying to fit in. He was raised on earth for his whole life. He shouldn't be an alien any more then any other guy raised in Kansas. But they persist in making him an outsider who can't get the human race. They make him an outside who can't get the problems other folks are having. You can't have the character be Clark Kent in reality but make his Superman person much more real then his Kent identity.
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No other guy raised in Kansas can fly through the sun. If Superman is a character who grows up normal then one day gets powers and becomes superhuman then he is every other comic book hero. Superman is more interesting when he is a an outsider from the beginning. They write Superman wrong not because he fails to understand the problems of the human race, but because he advocates for people to do their best for the fellow man-morals he learned from Jonathan and Martha Kent. As for Clark Kent, there was a real Clark Kent-the Clark that Jonathan and Martha knew inside the home, but once they die (and they both need to die), then the real Clark Kent dies as well. What is left is a fabrication that Superboy created with his parents to present to the world as Clark Kent.

"Superman isn't Superman if Clark is the real person and Superman just "what he can do.""

Your describing the precrisis version and thats all your doing. The key to the "new" Superman is that Superman now needs to be even more of an idea or symbol. He can't be married, he can't show fear, he's got to be godlike. Clark Kent can have girl troubles, money issues, job issues, dental issues, decide if he wants onions on his hot dog. Superman has got to be this godlike alien that has people worshiping him and it just makes it impossible for this god to be a mere man named Clark Kent.
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Superman ALWAYS had personal issues. Clark Kent is actually part of how he deals with his issues. As Superman, everything in the world is expected and often demanded of him. By being Clark Kent, he can get away with those heightened expectations. He can only walk among humans by being one of them.

But please show me this data that supports the idea that Superman has been a consistent failure since 1986. I'm sure many would disagree as they name quite a bit of their favorite arcs from 86 to 2011.
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If you look at total sales and more importantly, sales rank, Superman is currently an irrelevant commodity and has been for years:

60's sales rankings:

http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales/1960s/1965.html

Superman family titles dominating the top ten. Superman, Action, Superboy, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, and Adventure Comics all in the top ten. 1-6 all Superman family, #8 is World's Finest.

1995 sales rankings:

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1995/1995-01Diamond.html

Rankings are 23-25,

2000 sales rankings:

rankings are 36, 40, 50, 51

http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales/1960s/1965.html

2005 sales rankings:

rankings are 21, 32, 33

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2005/2005-10.html

2011 sales rankings:

rankings are 39, 48, 71, 92.

The people who name the more recent storylines as their favorites do so for two reasons: 1) Most modern fans have little respect for or interest in the history of comics and refuse to read anything that is Pre-Crisis with an open mind and 2) The people who were fans of Superman when he was successful and relevant no longer read comics for the most part, and many of them haven't since 1986.

Overall sales charts from 1950-1987 then sample charts from 87-present:

http://enterthestory.com/comic_sales.html
 
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It strikes me as really silly to call Superman or Clark the "real" person. They're one and the same, period. Superman's sense of justice is informed by Clark's upbringing by morally righteous midwesterners and Clark's life is necessarily structured around his activities as Superman. Neither is more "real" than the other.
 
At least he won't have to hold back in the bedroom.
 
If they choose to take WW back to her roots, he should be hoping that she holds something back.
 
I heard that George Perez will be doing the art for Morrison's Superman! :D
 
No Morrison? That sucks.
 
No Morrison no interest past the first issue or two.
 
I would have Preferred this costume instead of the one we got in the Relaunch.
supermanredesignagain2.png


Im really hoping that this Relaunch doesnt shaft supermans Importance.He is the Original and best.
Worried that Perez is writing
 
Codename Sailor V said:
The 'silliness' of the Silver Age inspired two of the best Superman stories of all time.
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And the Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen comic books were insane and they were fab.

The Bride of Jungle Jimmy is the greatest story about a photographer being forced to marry an ape by his alien witchdoctor friend that has ever been written :awesome:
 
They should really play up the "Jimmy Olsen in drag" concept and do a few Jimmy Olsen/Batwoman team-ups. Think about it. Kate and Batwoman need to be in the same place at the same time...and Jimmy Olsen needs to stand in for Batwoman. I'd buy the hell out of that.
 
Have we actually seen Superman's new costume yet? I thought the only picture of it we had so far was that Jim Lee JLA pic, where half of it is obscured...
 
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