The Official Superman Thread - Part 4

[CConn]

Wonder Woman is ****ing awesome in JL.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

So you think Justice League is a good book, except for how it treats 2/3's of DC's "Trinity", and most of your problems of Superman come from Justice League?

I never said the book was good but the idea in how they came together was, I also have problems with the way Superman is portrayed in action comics. Reason I didn't state them was because many people use the excuse he is a younger Superman and for some reason seem to excuse his arrogant bullish behavior.

No. Because they are stories from 2 different writers. Same way I don't dislike Batman just because David Finch was writing The Dark Knight and Tony Daniel was writing Detective, and I lost my enthusiasm for Scott Snyder. Also, if you plan on reading any comics for the foreseeable future, you're in for a bad time if one writer can ruin a character for you.

So you think the writers are partaking individually on the aspect of what this new 52 Superman entails? Ever heard of collaborative writing, which is something that I am sure has come into play in a big way with new 52 idea. Don't know if your trying to patronize me but I will have you know I have been reading comics for 23yrs and am familiar with the concept of different writers different takes. Although the core of the characters always remain the same which is the same here, Action comics Superman is a bullying brute, JL Superman is a bullying brute not much of a change.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Wonder Woman is ****ing awesome in JL.

She was until issue 12.

 

[CConn]

Go cry me a river.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Go cry me a river.

Nah your all right.

 

[hippie_hunter]

IMO, new 52 and Post Crisis Superman have something in common: Morrison is one of the few writers who manage to write him properly.

That said, the concept behind new 52 Superman is much better than post crisis Supes. They did what they should've done in 86': update the Siegel/Shuster version for modern times.

I disagree there. Perez, Jurgens, and dare I even say Lobdell have shown that they can write him properly, the problem is that Superman is an editorial mess.

Take a look at the Batman books, editorial and the writers have decided to band together to create a cohesive line of books where even though you have Bruce Wayne in four different books, he still feels like the same character in all of them and everything flows nicely throughout the books set in Gotham City.

Now look at the Superman books, there is just no sense of cohesion with them. The writers who have taken on Superman are trying to write the same Superman that Morrison is presenting, but Morrison is just doing his own thing and is not sharing with the other writers like the way Snyder is with the Batman writers. And DC is just blatantly treating Superman as the B-book that just doesn't matter while Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns are expanding upon the character in Action Comics and Justice League. DC just isn't letting other writers be like Morrison and deliver great stories. It's why Perez and Jurgens essentially quit the book.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I didn't read the annual because I know it was supposed to be a mess, having elements inserted and removed by editorial and all that jazz... Anyway, I didn't want that to sour Lobdell's take for me. I'm not big on the guy, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Did I do good?

 

[hippie_hunter]

I didn't read the annual because I know it was supposed to be a mess, having elements inserted and removed by editorial and all that jazz... Anyway, I didn't want that to sour Lobdell's take for me. I'm not big on the guy, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Did I do good?

Lobdell still sucks, but in this instance, I think a lot of the blame here actually goes to editorial for the Superman Annual sucking as opposed to Lobdell's writing. At least Lobdell tries to portray a more progressive Clark Kent who wants to have some ties to humanity and yet still has some degree of distance to those close to him the way Morrison and Johns are portraying him in Action Comics and Justice League.

 

[Spade]

I know it's a title DC's put out for years, but I always question why secondary titles like Superman exist. Action is already about Superman and his adventures. Soon, it won't even have the time gap. Batman has the same quirk, too. Batman already covers...well, Batman. Then there's Batman Incorporated, Detective Comics, and The Dark Knight where Bruce has the lead role. If they at least covered more than the one character you could say there's something different from the primary title besides which villain is fought. Yet there usually isn't. So one shines above the rest. Yes, they make guaranteed money off the people who will add whatever stars Superman or Batman (or Green Lantern, while we're at it) to their pull list. Maybe to DC that's enough. But at some point, somebody has to notice that the oversaturation, repetition, and competition with itself is perhaps worth one or two less of these secondary titles if it makes for an overall stronger line-up.

Or maybe I've just lost it, who knows.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I never said the book was good but the idea in how they came together was, I also have problems with the way Superman is portrayed in action comics. Reason I didn't state them was because many people use the excuse he is a younger Superman and for some reason seem to excuse his arrogant bullish behavior.

You've answered your own question in the first 7 words of your response.

So you think the writers are partaking individually on the aspect of what this new 52 Superman entails? Ever heard of collaborative writing, which is something that I am sure has come into play in a big way with new 52 idea.

You'd be wrong there. That's why Perez left the Superman title, because there isn't any collaborative writing. Grant wants to do his own thing in the past, and Perez didn't like not knowing what had happened, because obviously, he can't contradict it.

Don't know if your trying to patronize me but I will have you know I have been reading comics for 23yrs and am familiar with the concept of different writers different takes. Although the core of the characters always remain the same which is the same here, Action comics Superman is a bullying brute, JL Superman is a bullying brute not much of a change.

If you're so knowledgeable of how Superman has been written, might I direct you towards Action Comics Vol. 1 #1-10, which is what the current Superman is masterfully based on.


Oh, and it was written by Jerry Siegel, and I'm pretty sure he knew better than anyone how Superman would act.

 

[BigSams50]

I disagree there. Perez, Jurgens, and dare I even say Lobdell have shown that they can write him properly, the problem is that Superman is an editorial mess.

Take a look at the Batman books, editorial and the writers have decided to band together to create a cohesive line of books where even though you have Bruce Wayne in four different books, he still feels like the same character in all of them and everything flows nicely throughout the books set in Gotham City.

Now look at the Superman books, there is just no sense of cohesion with them. The writers who have taken on Superman are trying to write the same Superman that Morrison is presenting, but Morrison is just doing his own thing and is not sharing with the other writers like the way Snyder is with the Batman writers. And DC is just blatantly treating Superman as the B-book that just doesn't matter while Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns are expanding upon the character in Action Comics and Justice League. DC just isn't letting other writers be like Morrison and deliver great stories. It's why Perez and Jurgens essentially quit the book.

Is Morrison leaving Action soon?

 

[CConn]

After #16.

 

[BigSams50]

After #16.

OK thanks man. Not looking forward to that

 

[CConn]

Supposedly Andy Diggle is taking over. He could be pretty good.

 

[BigSams50]

Supposedly Andy Diggle is taking over. He could be pretty good.

I dont know who he is lol I'll be giving him a chance though. Big shoes to fill, but maybe with Morrison gone, the Superman books will be more in tune with one another

 

[hippie_hunter]

There are also rumors that Scott Snyder will be doing a new Superman: The Man of Steel book with Jim Lee.

 

[Motown Marvel]

There are also rumors that Scott Snyder will be doing a new Superman: The Man of Steel book with Jim Lee.

Ugh...

 

[hippie_hunter]

A Snyder/Lee collaboration sounds awesome.

 

[Spade]

I've never read anything by Diggle, so I have no strong feelings. I hope he brings his A game.

There are also rumors that Scott Snyder will be doing a new Superman: The Man of Steel book with Jim Lee.

Now we're going to have Man of Steel? Are they just going to make a new ongoing every time a movie comes out?

 

[CConn]

Diggle kicked ass on The Losers.

Wrote an awesome Green Arrow origin.

Then had a run on Daredevil that introduced some good concepts to continue on Brubaker and Bendis' runs, but ultimately faltered and failed due to a poorly done event.

Whether the failure of that event was Diggle's or his editor's fault is anyone's guess.

 

[RoughNTumble]

A Snyder/Lee collaboration sounds awesome.

for superman?

 

[CConn]

Yeah, it's still pretty awesome.

I mean, yeah, so far Snyder's only written "dark" stories, but I highly doubt that's all he's able to write.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Now we're going to have Man of Steel? Are they just going to make a new ongoing every time a movie comes out?

I dunno, Snyder and Lee hoping onto a new book really doesn't add up to me.

DC really doesn't do much whenever they get a new movie out. They did absolutely nothing for the Nolan Batman films and did the bare minimum of comic book tie-ins for Green Lantern and Superman Returns. The future of Batman: The Dark Knight is rather unclear now that Finch is off the book, so it wouldn't make much sense to have a Superman: The Man of Steel book if Batman: The Dark Knight is no longer around. Superman just isn't a character that can handle three ongoings (as a matter in fact, asides from Batman I would argue that no character can handle more than one ongoing). And using Snyder's own logic since a Snyder/Lee Superman book would obviously be the main Superman book, the book that Snyder would like to be on would be.......Superman, not a new book.

 

[Motown Marvel]

A Snyder/Lee collaboration sounds awesome.

i'm not too fond of Lee's art, and snyder's recent batman work has ranged from decent to groan inducing. so....yeah.....ugh.

 

[hippie_hunter]

i'm not too fond of Lee's art, and snyder's recent batman work has ranged from decent to groan inducing. so....yeah.....ugh.

What's wrong with you