The Official Superman Thread - Part 5

[ares834]

I greatly prefer Morrison's costume. The short hair and lack of a cape kills this one for me.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I'll take that over the other abomination any day.

Wonder Woman's outfit looks pretty bad, though.

I don't have this "anything but the seams and turtleneck" attitude that some of you have and am totally, utterly sick of the constant changes and DC's inability to make decisions and settle on something. And I prefer Superman's suit look like an actual superhero suit WITH A CAPE.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

They should just have Clark leave Earth for some reason or retire him completely. Everything about Superman has changed to the point where the character is completely unrecognizable...

Costume? Gone
Marriage? Gone
Daily Planet? Quit
Kents? Dead
Spitcurl? Replaced with Buzzcut

Now they went the extra step of giving him a Connor Kent style makeover. It doesn't make sense what they are doing. It's obvious that DC has no idea what they are doing anymore...

This man speaks the truth. Please, write more posts.

I look forward to the new Batman look: a barechested Bruce Wayne holding a machine gun (rubber bullets, honest), with a Bat-mask painted over his eyes and a giant bat-tattoo (battoo?) on his manboobs.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

So what else is there to this? He just got through bench-pressing New York. Is he back to struggling with cars as well? Every time Superman does something cool, they have to snatch it away to please the power-haters.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

So what else is there to this? He just got through bench-pressing New York. Is he back to struggling with cars as well? Every time Superman does something cool, they have to snatch it away to please the power-haters.

Don't worry, he's probably going to lift a fat kid or something.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

And the grim-n-gritty realism lovers will get mad if that doesn't cause a hernia.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

And the grim-n-gritty realism lovers will get mad if that doesn't cause a hernia.

"The S stands for Sciatica!"

 

[Kirmit]

Loving the use of the Fleischer symbol, loving how pumped Supes looks, hate the short hair and hate the lack of cape, don't mind the casual look.

 

[ares834]

Superman isn't Superman without the cape.

 

[X Knight]

so, why exactly are they changing the costumes like that?

but at least Superman still sort of looks like Superman.

unlike Batman's new look.........

 

[Boy Scout]

I don't have this "anything but the seams and turtleneck" attitude that some of you have...

That's cool. I happen to genuinely like the new look and believe that it is an improvement over the old one, which is why I brought it up in the first place. If I thought the new outfit looked like crap, I would have said so, regardless of how it compared to the old one.

I do miss the cape, though.

 

[-Arya-]

so, why exactly are they changing the costumes like that?

but at least Superman still sort of looks like Superman.

unlike Batman's new look.........

That robo suit probably isn't Batman.

 

[Stallion9979]

We went from this....

To This....

And This...

To This...

Really?

 

[Cain]

They should just have Clark leave Earth for some reason or retire him completely. Everything about Superman has changed to the point where the character is completely unrecognizable...

Costume? Gone
Marriage? Gone
Daily Planet? Quit
Kents? Dead
Spitcurl? Replaced with Buzzcut

Now they went the extra step of giving him a Connor Kent style makeover. It doesn't make sense what they are doing. It's obvious that DC has no idea what they are doing anymore...

There is way more evidence to back that Superman has been the best he's been in comics in decades since 2011 then there is against it.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well then quit reading them

EDIT: In reference to Stallion, not Cain.

 

[Stallion9979]

There is way more evidence to back that Superman has been the best he's been in comics in decades since 2011 then there is against it.

Which would be what exactly?

 

[Cain]

Which would be what exactly?

Superman's characterization in stories like:

Morrison's Action Comics
A lot of Scott Lobdell's Superman run (believe it or not)
Superman Unchained
Batman/Superman
Justice League (especially now with Lex as a teammate)
Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder's Action Comics

In terms of pure consistency across different titles Superman is arguably as close as he's been to pre-crisis in almost a decade now. Certainly a hell of a lot closer than he was 30 years back. The pre-crisis Supermen are the quintessential Supermen.

They are the foundations of the greatest aspects of the character as they are what defined such an archetype (selfless champion of the oppressed who is the last of his kind but doesn't allow that to effect his humanity) being fully embraced.

New 52 Superman is like a giant love letter to Golden Age/Silver Age/Bronze Age Superman through a modern prism but most people can't help but overlook that because they're too worried about him having a collar and no red trunks. I'm the type of person who values story content over aesthetics myself.

 

[Cain]

So what else is there to this? He just got through bench-pressing New York. Is he back to struggling with cars as well? Every time Superman does something cool, they have to snatch it away to please the power-haters.

That was a Superman from a timeline taking place 5 years into the future of the mainline DCU. He's older and much stronger 5 years later.

 

[The Sage]

Lobdell's run was good?

 

[Stallion9979]

Superman's characterization in stories like:
Morrison's Action Comics
A lot of Scott Lobdell's Superman run (believe it or not)
Superman Unchained
Batman/Superman
Justice League (especially now with Lex as a teammate)
Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder's Action Comics

We can agree to disagree here but I have tried the various titles you mentioned above and with the exception of Unchained, I have found little to nothing to like in terms of how he is characterized.

They are the foundations of the greatest aspects of the character as they are what defined such an archetype (selfless champion of the oppressed who is the last of his kind but doesn't allow that to effect his humanity) being fully embraced.

I completely disagree with that. All the things that made him more connected with humanity and kept him grounded have all been done away with and he is more disconnected from humanity than ever before.

- His job at the Daily Planet was replaced by becoming a blogger.
- His marriage with Lois Lane was replaced with Wonder Woman.
- His parents were killed off.

New 52 Superman is like a giant love letter to Golden Age/Silver Age/Bronze Age Superman through a modern prism but most people can't help but overlook that because they're too worried about him having a collar and no red trunks.

Having a collar and no red trunks are just examples of what was wrong with the new costume. People read these characters and follow them through various mediums (i.e. comics, cartoons, movies, etc) for years and years. Change is always inevitable and I do understand that change is necessary in order to endure. The problem many, many people have been having - myself included - is not that change is wrong and scary.

IMHO The problem is the changes made were in horrible. Its obvious that editorial has noticed the mostly negative backlash from the costume change since they've given Superman 4 different costumes already in less than 4 years. Not to mention the fact that Superman's numbers have steadily been declining throughout his line.

 

[Cain]

Lobdell's run was good?

It wasn't perfect but a lot of it was good yeah. It had a lot of great Clark Kent and Superman moments all throughout.

 

[Motown Marvel]

there are not enough vomit emoji to properly convey my sheer disdain for these costumes. it's like DC is TRYING to strip these timeless characters of every bit of their iconography. I'm so glad i quit reading their comics, but still...this is mind numbingly stupid. i've been saying that a lot over the past couple years in regards to DC, and i always think it cant get any more stupid...but then it gets more stupid.

i hope they have a new version of Bizarro where he just looks like regular classic superman. it'd make sense now.

 

[Cain]

We can agree to disagree here but I have tried the various titles you mentioned above and with the exception of Unchained, I have found little to nothing to like in terms of how he is characterized.

The funny thing is I don't even like Superman Unchained. Just that the characterization was pretty consistent with the Superman stories I actually do fully read and enjoy.

I completely disagree with that. All the things that made him more connected with humanity and kept him grounded have all been done away with and he is more disconnected from humanity than ever before.

- His job at the Daily Planet was replaced by becoming a blogger.
- His marriage with Lois Lane was replaced with Wonder Woman.
- His parents were killed off.

How exactly does that make him "more disconnected from humanity"?

- Fact: There are more bloggers than journalists in the world today; so that is far from a disconnect.
- Fact: A lot of people often date people who are more similar than different to them. So how is that a disconnect?
- Fact: There are millions of young adults without parents out there all over the world today. Anectdotally my father lost both my grandparents when he was only 17 just like New 52 Clark Kent. Keep in mind that his story is just one of many. So how is that a disconnect?

Having a collar and no red trunks are just examples of what was wrong with the new costume. People read these characters and follow them through various mediums (i.e. comics, cartoons, movies, etc) for years and years. Change is always inevitable and I do understand that change is necessary in order to endure. The problem many, many people have been having - myself included - is not that change is wrong and scary.

My point of bringing up the collar and lack of trunks is that the majority of people who ***** about New 52 Superman only gripe about that 9 times out of 10. Mostly because they don't even read the comic books so they can't exactly state specific slights against the actual storytelling.

Personally I don't take the opinions of those who speak without knowing seriously. I respect more informed opinions even if they disagree with my own. At least those have a genuine idea about what they're actually speaking on.

IMHO The problem is the changes made were in horrible. Its obvious that editorial has noticed the mostly negative backlash from the costume change since they've given Superman 4 different costumes already in less than 4 years. Not to mention the fact that Superman's numbers have steadily been declining throughout his line.

Costume aside all changes made were horrible and yet they have stuck around longer than any status quo for Superman after Infinite Crisis? funny how that works. If changes have worked and remained that means there is less of a negative backlash than what you're suggesting. Obviously it's working for the people who do buy the book every month.

Superman's sales have declined? yeah and so has every other comic book's as well including the top 4 sellers. The industry isn't exactly booming with monthly sales now a days. This is why Marvel and DC keep shaking things up like they do. They're still trying to figure out who the new surrogate fanbase for this format is in today's world where a lot of people no longer stick to a direct market.

 

[Stallion9979]

How exactly does that make him "more disconnected from humanity"?

- Fact: There are more bloggers than journalists in the world today; so that is far from a disconnect.
- Fact: A lot of people often date people who are more similar than different to them. So how is that a disconnect?
- Fact: There are millions of young adults without parents out there all over the world today. Anectdotally my father lost both my grandparents when he was only 17 just like New 52 Clark Kent. Keep in mind that his story is just one of many. So how is that a disconnect?

- The newsroom of the Daily Planet kept him grounded by surrounding him with more human colleagues and peers. When you have someone like Superman surrounded by other heroes in the pages of Justice League, it balances him out when he has a more normal human supporting cast in the Planet. This was not a statement on the number of bloggers vs journalists walking around the world. I live in NYC which is one of the biggest cities in the world and plenty of people walk around or ride the subways reading newspapers on a daily basis.

- Superman/Lois Lane dynamic has endured for 75 years. Obviously there's a reason for that. There's a balance to that relationship and Lois humanizes Clark in a way that Diana just can't. I don't mind seeing Clark/Diana in Elseworlds and Alt. Universes because they are small sample what if type scenarios but on a regular basis it just feels like Fan Fic.

- No one is talking about millions of young adult orphans. Superman is already an orphan by virtue of Jor-El sending him to Earth in the first place. To orphan him a second time is a bit overkill wouldn't ya say?

- At the end of the day, the things above were tools used to make Clark more human and grounded. Taking away all of these different things make him feel more disconnected from the rest of humanity...

My point of bringing up the collar and lack of trunks is that the majority of people who ***** about New 52 Superman only gripe about that 9 times out of 10. Mostly because they don't even read the comic books so they can't exactly state specific slights against the actual storytelling.

Personally I don't take the opinions of those who speak without knowing seriously. I respect more informed opinions even if they disagree with my own. At least those have a genuine idea about what they're actually speaking on.

But again, obviously DC figured something was wrong with the aesthetic look when they've changed the look 4 different times in 3 1/2 years.

Costume aside all changes made were horrible and yet they have stuck around longer than any status quo for Superman after Infinite Crisis? funny how that works. If changes have worked and remained that means there is less of a negative backlash than what you're suggesting. Obviously it's working for the people who do buy the book every month.

Superman's sales have declined? yeah and so has every other comic book's as well including the top 4 sellers. The industry isn't exactly booming with monthly sales now a days. This is why Marvel and DC keep shaking things up like they do. They're still trying to figure out who the new surrogate fanbase for this format is in today's world where a lot of people no longer stick to a direct market.

This statement confuses me. What has stuck around for so long? It's only been 3 1/2 years and Superman has had a revolving door of talent on the title. Yes Superman's sales have declined and drastically since the relaunch. Don't take my opinion though, here are the actual numbers from 3 years before the New 52 vs the numbers in the 3 years after. () denotes the listing for the month

Action Comics
Jan '09 - 51,925 (20)
Jan '10 - 30,768 (62)
Jan '11 - 32,194 (36)
Jan '12 - 105,088 (3)
Jan '13 - 58,645 (26)
Jan '14 - 36,042 (48)
Jan '15 - 35,180 (48)

Superman
Jan '09 - 48,475 (25)
Jan '10 - 31,940 (62)
Jan '11 - 32,194 (23)
Jan '12 - 73,719 (7)
Jan '13 - 50,631 (33)
Jan '14 - 35,266 (49)
Jan '15 - Couldn't find data

And no not every other comic has taken a hit. Batman is consistently selling over 100K issues and a top 3 title. The cold hard numbers show Batman from Jan '14 out selling Superman 115,492 copies to 35,266 and in Jan '13 outselling 145,923 to 50,631 shows the market place is there. Its the interest that's not.

 

[Compi716]

That new "costume"...yikes. The Fleischer symbol is fine I suppose, but what's with the bloody knuckles in the Action Comics cover? Good grief.

For the time being I'm going to give DC (specifically Greg Pak, who has been killing it) the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this new outfit is very story specific, which is fine. But if not...sigh.