The Official Thor thread

[Vartha]

All the more reason to have Sif AS Magni's mother. Even as a second mother she loved Magni too.

 

[necross20]

I think im gonna head Marvel's Mythological department and correct every screwup they've made to desicrate the Gods memories

 

[TheCorpulent1]

All the more reason to have Sif AS Magni's mother. Even as a second mother she loved Magni too.

But that makes him the product of a happy, healthy household, which in turn renders him utterly boring.

 

[Still A ThorFan]

In this months Wizard there is an article about Thor. In it JMS says that Thor is going to confront Mr. Fantastic about the whole Clor thing.

I wonder if a Thor vs Thing might be in the near future. I'd love to see that. Thor battling the heavyweights such as Iron Man and Hulk possibly makes my mouth water.

 

[Galact-Gal]

Wasn't Hank Pym also supposed to be involved with creating Clor? Maybe Thor will drop in at Camp Hammond to have a 'chat' with Hank.

 

[Vartha]

But that makes him the product of a happy, healthy household, which in turn renders him utterly boring.

Who says it'd be a happy household? Sif wasn't at all happy with Thor moving Asgard close to Earth the first time. I'm sure that issue would pop up sooner or later. (and yes I realise that the 1st time has been basically cleaned up)

Yes Galact-Gal Pym was involved too. It was his Ultron knowledge that was used for Clor's insides, which was why Pym was medicated after Foster's death.

 

[The Geek Vault]

Do you guys think that Thor will fight the Hulk?

 

[BrianWilly]

My review of this book...

Thor #1
I was worried here. JMS is an...unsteady writer, at the best of times. To compound that specific problem, he repeats himself a bit. Or a lot. For instance, the whole "god dreaming that he's a man, man dreaming that he's a god" thing in this issue was not only overdone already during "The Other," to make it worse it isn't even an original quote. For that reason, the preview of this comic did not impress me. There are other examples of this from throughout the years; like scenes of MJ and Peter together in AMS tend to go in cycles, cloning themselves from scenes that he'd written before in that book or in other books or even from his TV shows.

So my point is...when he's off, he's really off. As with a lot of writers of this type, however...when he's on, he's really fcking on. Which brings us to this book, in which he proves me pretty much wrong.

Nothing here makes me want to jump out of my seat and go "HOLLA BACK YOUNGINS this sht is TIGHT!!!! WOOO!!!!!" and yet everything still feels very right. To put it simply, JMS is getting it right, here. There were a lot of ways he could have gotten it wrong and he got it right. Thor's return from the Void. Donald Blake's return from the Void. The time, reason, and circumstance of their return. It even makes me forgive that whole dumbass return of Mjolnir and Doom and the whole non-CW connections last year in Fantastic Four.

It's interesting to see JMS depict Thor's fellow Asgardians as outright literal gods when, in the past, they were more often than not just treated as regular joes...just, y'know, superstrong and ageless. More often than not, they were just spoken of as "Asgardians" as opposed to having the actual titles of gods. Certainly I've never seen Balder or Sif shoot blasts of power or perform overtly metahuman feats; let's just say that if Superman fought the average Asgardian "god" pre-Ragnarok, there's no way in Hel he's losing 'cause the whole "they might hurt him with magic powers" element does not factor in the least. Now that JMS has eased my fears of what he'd do with this title, I'm looking forward to how these new gods (heh) will be depicted in JMS's cosmology. The whole "gods are powerful when men believe in them" thing is no longer as fresh or original as it was maybe several years ago, but it's a solid outline for this. There's a risk of making Marvel's "gods system" too much like DC/Vertigo's, but I don't think it's a very big risk. For one thing, contrary to popular misconception, DC's gods don't actually draw their power from belief.

Here's the thing: as far as I can recall, Neil Gaiman never wrote "The gods are only as powerful as mankind's faith." George Perez and Greg Rucka never wrote "The gods are only as powerful as mankind's faith." I completely see why people would describe their system that way, but there is a subtle but important distinction to make here because what they wrote was this: "The gods have power only as long as they can avoid obsolesence." Lack of faith is part of their problem but it is not their actual problem. It doesn't matter if no one worships Susano'o or Ares; what's important is for those gods to be able to adapt with the times. If the Japanese pantheon absorbs aspects of modern Japanese culture into their fold, they can be just as relevant as they were in the past. If Ares isn't stuck in the archaic battlegrounds of the BC times and adapts his interests to the worldwide conflicts of modern warfare, he becomes more powerful than he ever was. That's the sort of thing I'd like to see here, because Thor and the Asgardians are completely and utterly relevant to the Marvel universe. Thor the Avenger, Thor the superhero is an entirely vital backdrop to the collective Marvel universe consciousness. There are layers upon layers of possibilities for this series.

A lot of writers complain about "magic" characters and "magic" books, saying that magical characters are often too powerful with no boundaries and how magical stories are too open-ended and hard to write. I say thee nay. With magical characters, it becomes much more important to establish rules and limits...it's just that the rules and limits can be whatever you want them to be. And we all know what those should be! I mean, look at innately magical mainstream universes like Harry Potter or LotR or -- I have to say it -- Buffy, and anyone who knows those things know exactly what sorts of magical things "should" probably be allowed and what sorts of magical things take you right out of the universe. And we all know how those things should go, because people have been writing those kinds of stories for years and years and years now. Magical characters are only problems when you yourself have a poor understanding of how magical storylines work.

Bring out all the old tricks. Bring out the Cryptic Prophecies. Bring out the Chosen Ones. Bring out the Evil Overlords and the Canny Princesses and the Artifacts of Power and the Proud Godbeasts and the Demonic Tricksters. Those are the things that feel right, here. There are so many doors that are opened when you partake in a fantasy setting which -- it has to be said -- would look silly in other settings, so many more opportunities available than there are shut off. So it's set in the modern day real world? All the better! Look at the gratuitous amount of fantasy settings set entirely in modern day. In this genre, I feel like it's comic books that's lagging behind other mediums for once. There's an opportunity here for JMS to rectify that; let's hope he takes it.

(9 out of 10)

 

[wobbly]

Do you guys think that Thor will fight the Hulk?

I personally do hope so and he is back just in time for a meaningful showdown with the Hulk too, as opposed to them just happening to fight each other (I'm actually hoping Hulk fights Sentry first and beats the living crap out of him, then it'll be down to Thor to give the big guy a real fight).

 

[Miss Webb]

Do you guys think that Thor will fight the Hulk?

Why does Thor need to fight the Hulk? That's not exactly fresh. They aren't enemies either so what's the motivation to fight?

I'd rather see Thor do a 'tour' of everyone involved in the "Clor" buisness. His schedule would go like this.

12 Noon: pummel Tony Stark
1:30 pm: shake Hank Pym by his neck
3:15 pm: tie Reed Richards into a shipman's knot
5:00 pm: give Spidey a hug t:

 

[TheCorpulent1]

My review of this book...

[...]

Certainly I've never seen Balder or Sif shoot blasts of power or perform overtly metahuman feats; let's just say that if Superman fought the average Asgardian "god" pre-Ragnarok, there's no way in Hel he's losing 'cause the whole "they might hurt him with magic powers" element does not factor in the least.

I get what you're saying, and it is true for most of the Asgardian gods, but Balder, as the god of light, was capable of projecting heat and light on a large enough scale to melt an entire ice castle in Jotunheim. Also, a lot of the gods use magic weapons--Thor has Mjolnir, Odin had Gungnir, Brunnhilde had Dragonfang, Balder had the Sword of Frey, etc. But I agree with you overall, since pretty much everyone except for Simonson completely forgot about those elements.

Here's the thing: as far as I can recall, Neil Gaiman never wrote "The gods are only as powerful as mankind's faith." George Perez and Greg Rucka never wrote "The gods are only as powerful as mankind's faith." I completely see why people would describe their system that way, but there is a subtle but important distinction to make here because what they wrote was this: "The gods have power only as long as they can avoid obsolesence." Lack of faith is part of their problem but it is not their actual problem. It doesn't matter if no one worships Susano'o or Ares; what's important is for those gods to be able to adapt with the times. If the Japanese pantheon absorbs aspects of modern Japanese culture into their fold, they can be just as relevant as they were in the past. If Ares isn't stuck in the archaic battlegrounds of the BC times and adapts his interests to the worldwide conflicts of modern warfare, he becomes more powerful than he ever was. That's the sort of thing I'd like to see here, because Thor and the Asgardians are completely and utterly relevant to the Marvel universe. Thor the Avenger, Thor the superhero is an entirely vital backdrop to the collective Marvel universe consciousness. There are layers upon layers of possibilities for this series.

The stuff about Ares is basically Rucka's outline on the gods. He had Ares expand his purview from god of war to god of conflict in order to remain relevant, and he had the other gods try to change with the times except for musty old Zeus, who lost so much power because of it that he was deposed by Athena. But Perez's model certainly did seem to endorse the idea that more worshipers of a god or even more users of the concept that god represents = more power. The first post-CoIE arc of Wonder Woman featured a plot by Ares to capitalize on that part of the gods' nature by coaxing mankind towards World War III. The closer to open warfare the humans got, the more powerful Ares became. That seems like a pretty clear correlation.

A lot of writers complain about "magic" characters and "magic" books, saying that magical characters are often too powerful with no boundaries and how magical stories are too open-ended and hard to write. I say thee nay. With magical characters, it becomes much more important to establish rules and limits...it's just that the rules and limits can be whatever you want them to be. And we all know what those should be! I mean, look at innately magical mainstream universes like Harry Potter or LotR or -- I have to say it -- Buffy, and anyone who knows those things know exactly what sorts of magical things "should" probably be allowed and what sorts of magical things take you right out of the universe. And we all know how those things should go, because people have been writing those kinds of stories for years and years and years now. Magical characters are only problems when you yourself have a poor understanding of how magical storylines work.

Totally agree. What's more, it seems like Marvel's problem has been that they can't seem to establish rules and boundaries that span their entire universe. Dr. Strange's magic is not Thor's magic, and Thor's magic is not the Black Knight or Merlin's magic, etc. Every magic Marvel character feels like they're in their own little magic microcosm with its own rules--or, in the case of Dr. Strange, ever-changing, basically nonexistent rules. DC handled their magic system so much better it puts Marvel's to shame. I'm hoping Mystic Arcana can unify magic in the Marvel universe a bit more, but it's clearly not going to affect Thor at all. JMS is far too big a name to force him to use paltry things like established universal rules.

Who says it'd be a happy household? Sif wasn't at all happy with Thor moving Asgard close to Earth the first time. I'm sure that issue would pop up sooner or later. (and yes I realise that the 1st time has been basically cleaned up)

Sif wasn't happy with Thor's Earth-related activities before the King Thor saga because she couldn't understand them. That'll probably be eliminated now that man and god are supposed to be more intertwined. I'd be surprised if the gods somehow managed to keep that lofty imperiousness when Thor explains how much they rely on mankind.

She objected to Thor's moving Asgard to Earth the first time because she objected to what the humanity-less King Thor was doing on Earth, and that was mostly because Odin had banned the gods from interfering directly in man's affairs. That, too, should be a greatly reduced concern now that Thor has his humanity back (in spades) and Sif and the other Asgardians are supposed to be getting some humanity of their own.

Do you guys think that Thor will fight the Hulk?

I hope not. The event is called World War Hulk, which means people who fight the Hulk are probably gonna get stomped. I very much doubt Hulk fans want to see some other hero come in and kick their character's ass while he's in the middle of being at possibly his all-time peak of awesomeness, and the writers and editors and everyone else at Marvel knows that. WWH is the Hulk's time to shine, and if Thor intervenes, all he's gonna do is get his ass kicked. I don't want to see Thor start losing battles so soon after his return, myself.

 

[Still A ThorFan]

Why does Thor need to fight the Hulk? That's not exactly fresh. They aren't enemies either so what's the motivation to fight?

I'd rather see Thor do a 'tour' of everyone involved in the "Clor" buisness. His schedule would go like this.

12 Noon: pummel Tony Stark
1:30 pm: shake Hank Pym by his neck
3:15 pm: tie Reed Richards into a shipman's knot
5:00 pm: give Spidey a hug t:

Not fresh, maybe. But this fight would be the most meaningful. And who doesn't love to see Thor and Hulk just beat the living hell out of each other?! THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD!

 

[Vartha]

I personally do hope so and he is back just in time for a meaningful showdown with the Hulk too, as opposed to them just happening to fight each other (I'm actually hoping Hulk fights Sentry first and beats the living crap out of him, then it'll be down to Thor to give the big guy a real fight).

Personally Wobs, I LOVE to see Hulk living on Asgard, I think he'd fit right in with the Asgardian creatures the way he is now.

 

[necross20]

Do you think he's capable of living with people peacefully after WWH? You also have to consider the magnitude of the bar brawls, things are gonna get demolished.

 

[Vartha]

That's why I was saying that I would love to see him on Asgard.
Hulk in many ways is like a Troll, and Ulik WAS one of Thor's biggest enemys, you never know, it would be safer for Hulk and humans. lol

 

[necross20]

Thor would turn into his father anf start berating eveyrone for lack of respect, then he'd turn Hulk human and make him live in the mortal world. Which would be redundant but hey

 

[Miss Webb]

Hulk and Thor meet in a scene.

Thor: "Hail, green behemoth."
Hulk: "Thor. Thought you were dead."
Thor: "I got better. Want to fight?"
Hulk: (shrugs) "For what? Haven't we fought before?"
Thor: "Surely, but the fandom wants a battle."
Hulk: Whatever for?"
Thor: "Dynamic splash pages. Wreckage and destruction. Cursing and name calling."
Hulk:"Meh. I done enough of that in Planet Hulk."
Thor: "Not enough, apparently. The people want more."
Hulk: "Okay, whatever." (throws truck at Thor).

 

[necross20]

Asgard has trucks? Cool!

 

[Sloth7d]

Did anyone notice some of the dialogue is a copy and paste from the Other:evolve or die? Is J.M.S. repeating himself here or something?

 

[BrianWilly]

The "god dreaming he was a man" bit? Yeah. It's a pretty straight-out copy. Like I said in my review, JMS repeats himself in his writings quite a bit.

The punchline is that JMS didn't even come up with that phrase; he took it from a Taoist saying. The original text was talking about butterflies.

 

[Sloth7d]

Man, I never knew that. I'm a little dissapointed in JMS right now, but thanks for the info.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Issue #1 had a great feel... I'll stay for more even though that much information would have been conveyed by a better writer ON THE SPLASH PAGE. For $3 an issue I think any author indulging themselves in "decompressed storytelling" (code for "I don't have many ideas but still like to get paid") should be gutted.

 

[sandwraith]

Copiel's art was nice though. Seeing Thor in a blouse did scare the crap out of me awhiles...

 

[Vartha]

Blouse? Most men of the Viking age wore long shirts...it's those darned Scott's and thier Kilts! lol

 

[Kitsune]

I think im gonna head Marvel's Mythological department and correct every screwup they've made to desicrate the Gods memories

How about taking on Disney for turning Hades, the one calm and rational god in the Greek pantheon into a Starscreem wannabe.... Or practically all the other people who've butchered mythology over the years.