The Official Tom Welling Thread

[MJZ]

Pat is right, never say never. With a certain frivolous lawsuit looming, and the show having a cast that's a known marketable commodity. The idea of taking the next step while the cast is still signed isnt a new one in the hallowed halls of the Brothers Warner....



Punisher is not the example you really want SR to follow. It was a small film done by a small production house that broke even in theaters and then profited in about the 15% range after being released on video. All things considered it was a low budget film, with a prod budget of about $33 million. That's a much easier margin to reach.
SR on the other hand is a major studio release, and a tentpole film that WB is basing their summer, if not their year, around. It's prod budget, for arguments sake, is approx $175 million, not counting the massive promotional effort that will start with the release of the trailer next week. If a movie like that just makes back it production budget in theatres, it's considered a bomb. It doesnt have the luxury of surviving based on DVD sales, the margin is too large. Small franchises can survive on the home market because their costs are relatively low, big ones need those box office grosses or they're doomed.



You cant rely on fan speak to judge the commercial viability of a franchise. The geeks on the Net and the people at the Comic Cons (usually one in the same) make up such a small percentage of revenue (i.e. audience), and are usually deeply biased one way or another. It's akin to making a prediction on who the next President will be by polling one of the candidate's home towns that has a population of 5.000. It's statistically flawed. There are far too many question marks surrounding the Superman frnachise at this point to try and make any kind of accurate prediction about it's long term success.

So what kind of work do you do for the studio? This man is on the ball. Welcome.

 

[C. Lee]

Congrats on the baby man!

Thanks

...Baby? C. Lee, you been busy? Congrats man!

Thanks...it's just my luck...I retire from work, then this....looks like I have my retirement planned now.

Congrats C. Lee on the baby.

Thank you

Congrats C. Lee! Babies rock.

Supershizzle - I'm getting in line behind Pat to marry you.

Thank you.....but my wife hasn't given up the job yet.

 

[Supershizzle]

No, not at all, but to think just because it moved to another network means it's automatically renewed for a 7th season is just as much as a guess as my comment was.

I'm talking in terms of expectations. The new network is expecting Smallville to be around past their inaugural season. It's the most highly rated show on the new network, and even if they have to instill a "shift" in the overall "primary" *cough* scope of the show for the next year or two, they'll be willing to do it, especially since they can continue to use it as a marketing vehicle for their "like-minded" film franchises that will be popping up in '07 and beyond. You're correct though. there are no guarantees. Though the show will really be "taking off" come the end of this season. Having the financial backing of Viacom (CBS) will certainly be used to bolster the show.

You're right, the recent Animated Series was the only thing that was done well since 1978 in TV or film, everything else has been a departure. Introducing Superman back to audiences is not an easy task, especially with all the different directions the character has gone since then......

-The origin has been told too many times, and it's too close to SV, so that's out. Plus, Donner told the perfect origin story already in my opinion.
-Doing just a stand-alone film with no connectivity would also be tough.
-Doing a SV type film might have worked, but that's also a bigger risk than what they ultimately went with in my opinion.

A Return type story was really a good idea to introduce this character back to movie audiences. It raises some magnificent questions. Most adults and even kids have seen the Reeve films now. A "remake" it surely isn't and the other questions you raise is why Bryan Singer ultimately won the job - reflect the Reeve Superman but update the character to reflect today's climate and atmosphere so new audiences can relate.

Sorry for the non-SV rant, but had to answer.......

Well I dont know if I'd say TAS was the only version that's done well since then, unless of course you're talking in terms of content vs. financial viability. But that's neither here nor there. The old movie franchise was a money machine well into the 1980's, and the company made far more on Lois & Clark, as bad as it was, than TAS since it was primetime television vs. an animated weekday show. Smallville is probably the most lucrative Superman franchise to this day, comparatively speaking, if you take into account it's costs vs. the revenue it generates.

But really content doesnt necessarily always factor into the equation of a moneymaker. Titanic, the most successful film of all time, is 2 hours of formulaic crap with more historical inaccuracies than you could shake a stick at. But it made a ton of money at the BO because it had the right factors going for it. It's only drawback was that it was a history piece (loosely) and doesnt lend itself to being a franchise. (Titanic 2: Cruise Control?)

SR needs to have those hooks for the common audience to really bring the crowds in. Seeing as how the movie cost approx $175 million to make plus another say $50 million in promotions (wait until you see some of the stuff those guys have planned, I wish I had their toys to play with.), thats a $225 million hole to start off in, so they'll need them big time. I dont think the story will actually be as important as the visuals. Sometimes like with Hulk, you can have a great story that follows the current comic cannon, but the audience just doesnt care. They want to see him break things and beat the snot out of people, not wrestle with his inner "man vs. monster" conflict. I hope in the case of SR, Singer found a workable balance. I know his X-Men films were a little light on the action, so I do have some cause for concern there. Knowing that there isnt a "super nemesis" in the film is a bit concerning as well.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

SR needs to have those hooks for the common audience to really bring the crowds in. Seeing as how the movie cost approx $175 million to make plus another say $50 million in promotions (wait until you see some of the stuff those guys have planned, I wish I had their toys to play with.), thats a $225 million hole to start off in, so they'll need them big time. I dont think the story will actually be as important as the visuals. Sometimes like with Hulk, you can have a great story that follows the current comic cannon, but the audience just doesnt care. They want to see him break things and beat the snot out of people, not wrestle with his inner "man vs. monster" conflict. I hope in the case of SR, Singer found a workable balance. I know his X-Men films were a little light on the action, so I do have some cause for concern there. Knowing that there isnt a "super nemesis" in the film is a bit concerning as well.

Now that I agree with you about but why do you have convern over the action? Remember Superman is pretty much in this movie Superman is stopping what ever Lex is about to so its more about how good they make him look when saving the day then action as to say fighting. Now in the next movie I am sure they will have a guy for Superman to fight that will be close to his level then I would worry about action because Singer doesn't do fighting well. But as far as saving the day type of stuff what was done in X-Men well X:2 was pretty much okay. Also I heard anyways Singer has a guest director do the action stuff anyways.

 

[jas01724]

I think this argument is going to kill me, slowly, braincell by braincell. I agree with never say never. I also advise not being smug when you're "sure" of something, because things can always change. And frequently have.

Que sera, sera.

 

[AgentPat]

Crikey!! Now THIS is entertainment!!!

Please, continue. Everybody.

PS: LOL@"primary scope of the show" & "Titanic 2: Cruise Control." Great stuff there.

PPS: James, I'll never be smug again (even if I use the winky from time to time). I learned THAT lesson, ahuh!

 

[Milkman95]

Oh, I read it. A few times in fact. You started with a pretty definitive statement: "too bad that won't be the case," and ended said statement the same: "you'll have BR and the new film series carrying on."

I've got a better one... More than likely, you're wrong.

Just "guessing' now.

Well, let's hope I'm wrong, but at the same time, this series is getting so thin right now it's almost transparent, hence the need for the so-called "filler" episodes..........

 

[Serene]

Que sera, sera.

Wow, James. You sounded just like Doris Day saying that.

Never say never.. good rule to live by.

 

[Milkman95]

I'm talking in terms of expectations. The new network is expecting Smallville to be around past their inaugural season. It's the most highly rated show on the new network, and even if they have to instill a "shift" in the overall "primary" *cough* scope of the show for the next year or two, they'll be willing to do it, especially since they can continue to use it as a marketing vehicle for their "like-minded" film franchises that will be popping up in '07 and beyond. You're correct though. there are no guarantees. Though the show will really be "taking off" come the end of this season. Having the financial backing of Viacom (CBS) will certainly be used to bolster the show.

Well I dont know if I'd say TAS was the only version that's done well since then, unless of course you're talking in terms of content vs. financial viability. But that's neither here nor there. The old movie franchise was a money machine well into the 1980's, and the company made far more on Lois & Clark, as bad as it was, than TAS since it was primetime television vs. an animated weekday show. Smallville is probably the most lucrative Superman franchise to this day, comparatively speaking, if you take into account it's costs vs. the revenue it generates.

Yes, I was only talking in terms of content, not financial success. I agree SV is the most successful TV series in terms of financial success, but again, being at a new network makes me think a lot of changes could be in store if they want to stretch this thing to at least 7 seasons. Even though they've already broken the rules they originally set, I'm sure it will be pushed even further, which is fine by me.

But really content doesnt necessarily always factor into the equation of a moneymaker. Titanic, the most successful film of all time, is 2 hours of formulaic crap with more historical inaccuracies than you could shake a stick at. But it made a ton of money at the BO because it had the right factors going for it. It's only drawback was that it was a history piece (loosely) and doesnt lend itself to being a franchise. (Titanic 2: Cruise Control?)

I agree, there's plenty of junk out there that made a ton of money - Fantastic Four anyone?

SR needs to have those hooks for the common audience to really bring the crowds in. Seeing as how the movie cost approx $175 million to make plus another say $50 million in promotions (wait until you see some of the stuff those guys have planned, I wish I had their toys to play with.), thats a $225 million hole to start off in, so they'll need them big time. I dont think the story will actually be as important as the visuals. Sometimes like with Hulk, you can have a great story that follows the current comic cannon, but the audience just doesnt care. They want to see him break things and beat the snot out of people, not wrestle with his inner "man vs. monster" conflict. I hope in the case of SR, Singer found a workable balance. I know his X-Men films were a little light on the action, so I do have some cause for concern there. Knowing that there isnt a "super nemesis" in the film is a bit concerning as well.

Well, as far as the budget is concerned, thank God for today's DVD market, toys, TV rights, and other licenses, because I'm sure they took all that into account as well as knowing this is only the beginning of the return for this character. Batman Begins did this wonderfully by the way..........

 

[Supershizzle]

Yes, I was only talking in terms of content, not financial success. I agree SV is the most successful TV series in terms of financial success, but again, being at a new network makes me think a lot of changes could be in store if they want to stretch this thing to at least 7 seasons. Even though they've already broken the rules they originally set, I'm sure it will be pushed even further, which is fine by me.

I agree, from what I know, since Smallville already works, the other partner "aint gonna fix it," however if it starts to flounder, WB will have a partner to answer to. As far as Smallville goes now, the WB people are still driving all of the creative decisions. There may be some outside factors that "influence" things, but that's not clear as of now. Whereas any new series coming, are being made as joint decisions, hence the recasting of Aquaman for Mercy Reef.

I agree, there's plenty of junk out there that made a ton of money - Fantastic Four anyone?

Thats the guys at Fox for you. I'm convinced they could sell screen doors to submarine owners sometimes.

Well, as far as the budget is concerned, thank God for today's DVD market, toys, TV rights, and other licenses, because I'm sure they took all that into account as well as knowing this is only the beginning of the return for this character. Batman Begins did this wonderfully by the way..........

Yup, for some films, the ancillary revenue sources outpace the movie itself. Hell most of the huge video game titles alone (Madden, Halo) outsell most blockbuster films. One thing to remember though when looking at movie franchises, is that the law of diminishing returnss tends to apply. It's very rare that you get a T2 situation. Most of the time, even gigantic blockbusters like Spider-man, Star Wars, etc. see a dminished revenue stream over the life of the franchises. That's why it's pretty crucial the first one sets the bar high in terms of overall profit.

 

[Kane]

Wow. I missed all this. Not sure where to start here but for both sides; its somewhat impossible to predict the creative decisions of a network before it launches.

From a content standpoint, I could understand Milkman's desire for SV to end; premise wearing very thin.. being stretched out too long. However, I think an attempt to gain finanicial success from the show due to ratings could be considered more important to a network than the show's actual content. As to when the cast and crew will say enough is enough; thats hard to say. Personally, I'm hoping next season will be the last so that everything can be wrapped up nicely instead of being stretched out any further, and MR can grow his hair back after and be happy.

As to the idea of a future Superman series, Im not saying its impossible.. just seems VERY unlikely if the Superman movie frainchaise continues. My logic for this is the WB making it clear to differenciate Smallville as 'the adventures of young Clark Kent' and SR as 'the adventures of Superman'....Singer and G/M worked so they dont step on each other's toes in a very noticeable way. I think Smallville was also partially the reason why SR wasnt a complete origins story.

Theres also the fact that Batman/Bruce Wayne wasnt allowed to be represented on a TV medium in live action following the launch of the Batman Begins movie franchaise. I could understand WB's logic for this.

That being said, if SR is a complete trainwreck and the movie franchaise will not continue beyond SR, then a Superman followup series to Smallville may be possible, though I'm not sure how keen the actors will be on remaining for another series...

 

[Max]

It seems a lot of people are rooting against SR for some reason, and theyr'e Superman fans! I just don't get it - we've got the best of both worlds right now with SV and SR, remind me, what's the problem again?

It's not that I'm necessarily rooting against SR, it's just that I'm very familiar with the lead actor, as I watched him for six months on OLTL.

If it was another actor (and I don't mean Welling), I think I'd be more receptive.

 

[Jedi Master]

hmm why dont brandon routh do a special guest appearnce on smallville..n have them stand side by side, n then we can see who looks better(tom wellin IMO looks better)

 

[Kane]

Guys, I just came back from the future!

Brandon Routh in Superman Returns 2:

The power of over-eating and steroids.

 

[AgentPat]

Well, let's hope I'm wrong, but at the same time, this series is getting so thin right now it's almost transparent, hence the need for the so-called "filler" episodes..........

"Thin?" Okay, whatever.

Sometimes, I get the feeling that folks (and this isn't directed at you, Milkman) don't understand what it is that fans of SV, and perhaps more specifically, TW, are connecting with. Sure, there's lots of superhero type stuff going on, which keeps the Superman fans happy...

(cont.)

 

[AgentPat]

^ But while that stuff has its level of appeal, it's the emotional attachment to THIS version, THESE moments, and THESE performances that keeps me coming back for more...

Just because other versions share the same name and "vague" history, it doesn't mean I'll welcome them with open arms - or even want to. In point of fact, I have no vested interest in those other versions beyond the "cool factor" of being entertained on a surface level by another telling of the Superman tale.

With SV, I actually CARE what happens to these characters. There's a HUGE difference. I've watched SV for five years now. I laugh and cry and have sympathy for those characters and want to be with them through their journey. If folks can't relate to that, they shouldn't bother watching the show. Just because it's about Superman is not a good enough reason. JMHO.

 

[triplet]

^ ....while that stuff has its level of appeal, it's the emotional attachment to THIS version, THESE moments, and THESE performances that keeps me coming back for more...

Just because other versions share the same name and "vague" history, it doesn't mean I'll welcome them with open arms - or even want to. In point of fact, I have no vested interest in those other versions beyond the "cool factor" of being entertained on a surface level by another telling of the Superman tale.

With SV, I actually CARE what happens to these characters. There's a HUGE difference. I've watched SV for five years now. I laugh and cry and have sympathy for those characters and want to be with them through their journey. If folks can't relate to that, they shouldn't bother watching the show. Just because it's about Superman is not a good enough reason. JMHO.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about this...

I love Superman, and have since I was a kid, but the emotional attachment to these particular iterations of the characters is what keeps me coming back...

 

[Milkman95]

Couldn't agree more Pat - your SV is my LOST. The characters draw me to the show, NOT the story. They do a wonderful job on that show with the characters, just like SV.

SR is at a dis-advantage when you put it that way - they only have 2 - 2.5 hours to deliver, while SV has the ability to get better through the years, which it has at times.

Love the action pics of TW, I'm like you, you like the emotional parts just as much or more - that's why I'm looking forward to how emotional the story in SR is going to be - he's got to deal with something he can't use his powers to solve, which is interesting to me.

And yes, some of the stories have been thin, so I'll chalk up your "whatever" comment as you just being a biased fan, which there's nothing wrong with by the way...........

 

[Serene]

Damn, Pat.. you've totally outdone yourself with those two posts. And that's saying a LOT.

Couldn't agree more. It's nice to have someone lay it out so clearly for all to see.

I think I have something in my eye now...

 

[rumpuso]

I might as well just add my support here as well to your magnificent post, Pat. That pretty much sums up why I love this show so much. Smallville has become my 'entertainment' family (as opposed to my 'family' family) . I laugh when they laugh, I cringe when they embarass themselves, and I cry buckets of tears when they face death, or massive disappointments. I feel as if I *know* these characters and because of this, I am with them completely throughout this journey until the end. I love each of them and it upsets me when the show is reduced (by fans) to a silly teen show, or a show about favorite ships. It's so much more, and so fulfilling to me on so many levels then I simply tune out the naysayers and enjoy my hour every week.

 

[AgentPat]

^ Thanks, gang!

Couldn't agree more Pat - your SV is my LOST. The characters draw me to the show, NOT the story. They do a wonderful job on that show with the characters, just like SV.

SR is at a dis-advantage when you put it that way - they only have 2 - 2.5 hours to deliver, while SV has the ability to get better through the years, which it has at times.

Love the action pics of TW, but like you, you like the emotional parts just as much or more - that's why I'm looking forward to how emotional the story in SR is going to be - he's got to deal with something he can't use his powers to solve, which is interesting to me.

Hey, we're on the same page! Awesome.

I think it's more than just a matter of getting better through the years though. The episodic nature of television lets audiences get to know the characters intimately and therefore grow attached to those specific iterations. With SR, audiences will be asked to buy into a world where Superman already exists. (Not difficult - just something of note.) But then we'll have to accept that he disappeared for a time (within the fiction of the film) and then *care* that his former GF Lois Lane moved on, found a new BF, and had a child. The director will want us to be emotionally moved by that turn of events and sympathize with Clark and his loss, which technically, Clark brought upon himself.

Sounds familiar, kinda sorta.

But right now, the synopsis doesn't blow my skirt up because there's nothing inherently "special" about it, other than the character being Superman of course. Odd way of looking at it, I guess, but maybe those folks who call SV "Dawson's Creek with superpowers" will understand, I dunno. [shrugs]

One thing's for sure though, this summer should prove to be quite interesting.

 

[Milkman95]

^ Thanks, gang!

Hey, we're on the same page! Awesome.

I think it's more than just a matter of getting better through the years though. The episodic nature of television lets audiences get to know the characters intimately and therefore grow attached to those specific iterations. With SR, audiences will be asked to buy into a world where Superman already exists. (Not difficult - just something of note.) But then we'll have to accept that he disappeared for a time (within the fiction of the film) and then *care* that his former GF Lois Lane moved on, found a new BF, and had a child. The director will want us to be emotionally moved by that turn of events and sympathize with Clark and his loss, which technically, Clark brought upon himself.

I think the "Return" story has a double meaning - he's returning within the fiction of the film and the character is finally returning to theatres after almost 20 years, which I think is interesting. On top of what you described about Kal-El returning, he also has to deal with the whole world turning their back on him - people learned to live without Superman, which is interesting to me. What type of impact does he actually have? It also doesn't help that Lex has learned even more about him, and has become even more powerful. Should be fun.

Sounds familiar, kinda sorta.

Yes it does, a little bit.......

But right now, the synopsis doesn't blow my skirt up because there's nothing inherently "special" about it, other than the character being Superman of course. Odd way of looking at it, I guess, but maybe those folks who call SV "Dawson's Creek with superpowers" will understand, I dunno. [shrugs]

One thing's for sure though, this summer should prove to be quite interesting.

See, that's where I think differently, and based on your emotional ties to the character, it should interest you more. I think what's special about it for me is I get the best of both worlds - I get to hear the Williams theme again, it's got a vague connectivity to the Donner film, but yet it's going to have some great new elements that this character has never been in before, especially emotionally. SR has a chill factor written all over it, but again, that's just my opinion.........

SV also has that chill factor, especially when his future is referred to......

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I agree with you Milkman. Once again I think both the movies and TV show and Cartoons and comics are all good and tell great stories of Superman, Superboy, or a young Clark Kent in their own rights I hold none higher then the other because their different stories its all about IMO what you just have a taste for right now. Do you want to see Clark learning (in a matter of speaking) about himself, or do you wish to see him as a Cartoon today working by himself in the 40's and 90's or teaming up with Batman and Wonder Woman or do you wish to believe a man can fly today? See its all what you have a taste for I love SV (though it is letting me down these last 2 seasons) and JLU and I am sure I will love SR as well its just some people have a taste only for SV, some have it only for SR and some have t for everything dealing with Superman.

 

[AgentPat]

I think the "Return" story has a double meaning - he's returning within the fiction of the film and the character is finally returning to theatres after almost 20 years

Oh, I know that. But the fact that he's returning to theaters is... well... not that big of a deal to me. I'm not a huge film-goer. The best part of it being a major motion picture is the budget such a production warrants. I'm sure it will be fun to see in the theater, but I'm all about watching films and shows at home... repeatedly. LOL

he also has to deal with the whole world turning their back on him - people learned to live without Superman, which is interesting to me.

Yeah, I guess. It's a lot like KC on that level, I suppose. It's still not blowing my skirt up though. Speaking within the fiction here, people lived w/o Superman for most of their existence. Unless Zod comes back or something *ahem* (which is perhaps what Shizzle was eluding to yesterday with the lack of a "super"villain), people would move on just fine w/o Superman, I would think. Sure, there would be natural disasters, terrible accidents, and world wars, but what else is new? [Will Smith Voice]Welcome to Earth.[/Will Smith Voice] LOL

What type of impact does he actually have?

Pretty grand, I'd say. World-turning, in fact (pun intended).

It also doesn't help that Lex has learned even more about him, and has become even more powerful. Should be fun.

See, the thing with Luthor is, he gets more powerful by tapping into Kryptonian technology. I wonder if Singer's Clark will lament that too?

See, that's where I think differently, and based on your emotional ties to the character, it should interest you more.

It's not just any ole character - it's SV's version of the character. Just because there's a Clark Kent in a film called Superman Returns doesn't mean I'm gonna think of him the same way I think "my" Clark. You know, the one in SV. I have zero emotional attachment to BR's Clark and no vested interest in him... (yet.)

I think what's special about it for me is I get the best of both worlds - I get to hear the Williams theme again, it's got a vague connectivity to the Donner film, but yet it's going to have some great new elements that this character has never been in before, especially emotionally. SR has a chill factor written all over it, but again, that's just my opinion.........

And you're entitled to it. So far, the story as advertised leaves me cold, though that's probably a different chill factor.

SV also has that chill factor, especially when his future is referred to......

Indeed.

 

[triplet]

I might as well just add my support here as well to your magnificent post, Pat. That pretty much sums up why I love this show so much. Smallville has become my 'entertainment' family (as opposed to my 'family' family) . I laugh when they laugh, I cringe when they embarass themselves, and I cry buckets of tears when they face death, or massive disappointments. I feel as if I *know* these characters and because of this, I am with them completely throughout this journey until the end. I love each of them and it upsets me when the show is reduced (by fans) to a silly teen show, or a show about favorite ships. It's so much more, and so fulfilling to me on so many levels then I simply tune out the naysayers and enjoy my hour every week.

Word!