The Dark Knight Rises The Official "What Do YOU Want in the Sequel?" Thread

[Mr. Earle]

1. Good fight scenes that demonstrate Batmans martial arts prowess. Preferably a villain who can challenge Batman physically. Someone he can have an epic one on one hand to hand fight with.

2. Actual detective work.

3. More predatory instincts from Batman. Like in Begins, lurking in the shadows, leaping out and grabbing someone, skulking back to the shadows. Batarangs, smoke bombs, flash bangs. Y'know, Batman stuff.

4. Wayne Manor and new Bat Cave.

5. A mention of his parents. The whole reason Batman takes up his crusade didn't get a single mention in TDK. Maybe a scene at his parents graves a la Mask of the Phantasm or something.

6. Snow.

I second everyone of your "wants".

 

[Rodrigo90]

I dont know about having snow...but ANY sort of bad weather would be nice. Rain,a thunderstorm....A FRICKIN HURRICANE,ANYTHING!!!!

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'd love to see a Se7en like scene with Gordon and Batman chasing down some dude in the rain. Maybe Gordon and some other cop like Bullock doing it. I'm seeing Bullock being played by Leo DiCaprio, or maybe we can wait ten or fifteen years. I'd be interesting to see someone like Leo playing a supporting character.

You know, I wouldn't mind seeing a made up villain in a Batman film. Some mysterious killer. Like Hangman or Holiday but not them. Along with a classic Batman villain and a made up one it should be cool.

 

[Doctor Jones]

1. Good fight scenes that demonstrate Batmans martial arts prowess. Preferably a villain who can challenge Batman physically. Someone he can have an epic one on one hand to hand fight with.

2. Actual detective work.

3. More predatory instincts from Batman. Like in Begins, lurking in the shadows, leaping out and grabbing someone, skulking back to the shadows. Batarangs, smoke bombs, flash bangs. Y'know, Batman stuff.

4. Wayne Manor and new Bat Cave.

5. A mention of his parents. The whole reason Batman takes up his crusade didn't get a single mention in TDK. Maybe a scene at his parents graves a la Mask of the Phantasm or something.

6. Snow.

He did do it in TDK.

If I did a Batman film, he would rely more on his wits and smarts to get out of tight spots, Indiana Jones like instead of relying on his gadgets all the time. The Batman in BTAS hiding in the safe when the Riddler blew the building up is the Batman I'd like to see.

I'd also make a detective orientated film, neo noir like. Inspired by Fincher and L.A. Confidential and the comic book look. Gotham would be the middleground of Nolan's and Burton's Gotham. Not exactly an actualy city or one of fantasy. But one you could believe in but you wouldn't want to go to. Like a dark reflection of some city or something. The film doesn't need to have layer upon layer of theme and subtext like TDK. If it's a solid detective film with a great story like L.A. Confidential than it could be awesome.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

What detective work? There was zero detective work in TDK.

Taking someone elses invention (the sonar thing) and multiplying it is not detective work.

The bullet scanning thing? Probably the dumbest thing ever. You don't get finger prints on bullets, you get them on bullet casings.

Batman could of just picked up a spent casing off the floor and scanned it. But no, they added some illogical and pointless mumbo jumbo to try and be more clever. But it back fired.

 

[Doctor Jones]

But the hand print traced the person to the apartment building in the memorial scene and led Bruce to it. If he picked up some casing he wouldn't have found the apartment.

When you say back fired do you mean when he got to the apartment? He was unaware of what would happen there and wasn't prepared for it. At best he thought he would aprehend Melvin White.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

No i mean they did that bullet scanning thing to look clever (as in the people who wrote that into the script) but it wasn't clever, it was stupid.

You cannot scan bullets like that. You cannot get prints off bullets. Because your skin never comes into contact with the bullet itself. Bullets have casings. Batman should of just picked up a spent casing on the floor and either done a ballistics scan to trace the firearm or get the finger print off of the casing.

Batman did not use his raw intellect at all in TDK. He relied on technology... which he didn't even invent himself.

****, Bruce/Batman does more detective work and uses more of his raw intellect in Forever just by solving the riddles than in TDK.

 

[Doctor Jones]

No i mean they did that bullet scanning thing to look clever (as in the people who wrote that into the script) but it wasn't clever, it was stupid.

You cannot scan bullets like that. You cannot get prints off bullets. Because your skin never comes into contact with the bullet itself. Bullets have casings. Batman should of just picked up a spent casing on the floor and either done a ballistics scan to trace the firearm or get the finger print off of the casing.

Batman did not use his raw intellect at all in TDK. He relied on technology... which he didn't even invent himself.

****, Bruce/Batman does more detective work and uses more of his raw intellect in Forever just by solving the riddles than in TDK.

"uh... a clock!"

You could also say he did ore detective work in B89 when he foud the ingredients to the Joker's toxin. Christ, that whole scene is awesome.

I did like Kilmer in BF though. He really reminded me of the BTAS Batman and Bruce.

I see what you mean though. I can look past that, but it doesn't bother me.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I liked the detective work in Begins because it was practical. Surely beating up bad guys isnt enough, you need to get them locked up. And Batman did just that, by providing evidence, leverage on Judge Faden, etc. He also figured out Ras' plan, although i dont know if that counts as detective work, or just clever thinking.

 

[lime]

What I want is:

• Recast and return the Joker.
• More ‘’Batman Begins’’ Batman. Creepy and frightening.
• A Serial Killer like Riddler.

Ah…whatever Nolan do will be prefect!

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

• A Serial Killer like Riddler.

eh...what? you know who the Riddler is, do you?

 

[Doctor Jones]

I don't think the Riddler should be a straight up psycho. He can kill, but it's more about the mindgames and to test the minds of his victims.

 

[The Joker]

He did do it in TDK.

Yes, he did.

A couple of people here are looking at the detective work through rose colored glasses. Batman deduced the location of Melvin White's place at Loeb's funeral. He found out which Cops likely to try and assassinate Reese. He set up the Sonar technology to locate the Joker.

These claims that he relies on tech he didn't create completely applies to Begins, too. He didn't create any of the technology in Begins. It all came form Lucius. In fact, when Begins was released, many people were crying foul over that. Even likening Lucius to Q from the James Bond movies.

Batman never figured out Ra's plan in Begins. He stumbled onto it by pure chance. Gordon told him about Flass. He interrogated Flass who told him to go to the Narrows place. He went to the Narrows and bumped into Crane. Rachel told him Falcone was put into Arkham by Crane, and he followed her, and stumbled on the poisoning the water operation. It was Lucius who told him that you can't spread the poison by water, that you need a microwave emitter.

Batman didn't even make the antidote to Crane's toxin. Lucius did. In the comics, Batman is scientifically trained, and makes all his own antidotes and anti-toxins.

 

[Mr. Earle]

You re exaggerating. He was following leads and interrogating people.

As for Ras' plan, he figured it out by himself, how he'd use the train to reach Wayne Tower and all that.

 

[The Joker]

You re exaggerating. He was following leads and interrogating people.

No, he was either told what he needed to know, or found it by pure chance. He even had to go and ASK Gordon how he could go about taking down Falcone.

The only real detective work he did was snap some incriminating pics of Judge Faden etc. And honestly, even Rachel knew he was bent after the Joe Chill trial. Makes you wonder why nobody else took pics like these before.

As for Ras' plan, he figured it out by himself, how he'd use the train to reach Wayne Tower and all that.

After Lucius told him how the plan was to be carried out. He thought someone was just trying to poison the water.

 

[Mr. Earle]

No, he was either told what he needed to know, or found it by pure chance. He even had to go and ASK Gordon how he could go about taking down Falcone.

Well he was just starting out. Gordon would know why Falcone hasnt been brought in yet and what Batman can do to sidestep the law. Also, it was a reason for him and Gordon to start working together.

The only detective work he did was snap some incriminating pics of Judge Faden etc. And honestly, even Rachel knew he was bent after the Joe Chill trial. Makes you wonder why nobody else took pics like these before.

He also gave them Falcone at the scene, cargo manifests, the whole shipment, and all the other stuff that Rachel mentions to her boss.

After Lucius told him how the plan was to be carried out.

No he didnt. Ok fair point, Bruce should have made the antidote and all that (and i'm still not sure whether he truly understood Lucius' explanation of how he made it or not) but since Lucius made it, he had to be the one to know that it would have to be airborne to be effective. The applies to the microwave emitter as well since it was Lucius' department.

But from then on, Bruce figured out Ras' plan by himself. How he would use the train and reach WT to blow up the pipes and all that. Besides the fact that Bruce didnt do the science by himself i have no problem with Begins since he was still a rookie. Bruce made many mistakes in his first days in the comics as well. Example: He had to get beaten up to get the idea that he should use fear as a weapon.

 

[The Joker]

Well he was just starting out. Gordon would know why Falcone hasnt been brought in yet and what Batman can do to sidestep the law. Also, it was a reason for him and Gordon to start working together

Right. You're not telling me anything I don't know, mate. But that doesn't change the fact that he didn't work it out himself. He had to be told what to do.

He also gave them Falcone at the scene, cargo manifests, the whole shipment, and all the other stuff that Rachel says to her boss.

Yes, after Gordon told him what was needed to take him down. Which he really shouldn't need to ask, anyway. It's obvious that incriminating evidence of Falcone's involvement in the organized crime is what's needed.

Did he really need Gordon to tell him that? Of course not. Like you said above, it was just a plot device to get them working together.

No he didnt. Ok fair point, Bruce should have made the antidote and all that (and i'm still not sure whether he truly understood Lucius' explanation of how he made it or not) but since Lucius made it, he had to be the one to know that it would have to be airborne to be effective. The applies to the microwave emitter since it was Lucius' department.

Again, I know. But your explanation is not changing the fact that it was Lucius, not Batman, who worked it out and told Bruce.

But from then on, Bruce figured out Ras' plan by himself. How he would use the train and reach WT to blow up the pipes and all that.

Yes, that part he worked out, true. But again it was after Lucius told him how it was going to be done, and then Ra's told him he was going to spread it all over the city etc.

It's a short list of methods as to how you could use a big microwave machine to do that.

Besides the fact that Bruce didnt do the science by himself i have no problem with Begins since he was still a rookie. Bruce made many mistakes in his first days in the comics as well. Example: He had to get beaten up to get the idea that he should use fear as a weapon.

True. But that was before he became Batman. Like in MOTP, when the thugs he beat up laughed when he confronted them.

 

[Brother Jack]

5. A mention of his parents. The whole reason Batman takes up his crusade didn't get a single mention in TDK. Maybe a scene at his parents graves a la Mask of the Phantasm or something.

There was an indirect mention of them when Batman confronts Harvey while he's interrogating Thomas Schiff. He says Dent is the first legitimate ray of hope in Gotham in decades, i.e. since the Waynes. But I agree that this is a perfect time for the story to return to them .

You cannot scan bullets like that. You cannot get prints off bullets. Because your skin never comes into contact with the bullet itself. Bullets have casings. Batman should of just picked up a spent casing on the floor and either done a ballistics scan to trace the firearm or get the finger print off of the casing.

It's not an impossibility that the finger print would have been on the bullet. The casing doesn't cover the entire thing, a portion of the bullet is exposed and could easily have been touched by White when he was loading it into his gun magazine or whatever. Would it have made more sense to use the casing? Sure, but it may not have been around, and that story beat was there to further develop the sonar technology so that it would be used on a massive scale at the end of the film (which Batman did totally without Lucius by the way). Granted the technology itself is a little screwy, but c'mon, it's a comic book movie.

 

[Bunker]

1. Good fight scenes that demonstrate Batmans martial arts prowess. Preferably a villain who can challenge Batman physically. Someone he can have an epic one on one hand to hand fight with.

2. Actual detective work.

3. More predatory instincts from Batman. Like in Begins, lurking in the shadows, leaping out and grabbing someone, skulking back to the shadows. Batarangs, smoke bombs, flash bangs. Y'know, Batman stuff.

4. Wayne Manor and new Bat Cave.

5. A mention of his parents. The whole reason Batman takes up his crusade didn't get a single mention in TDK. Maybe a scene at his parents graves a la Mask of the Phantasm or something.

6. Snow.

Pretty much all of these, yeah. Especially 4 & 5. One of my biggest beefs with TDK is that it felt completely separate from Begins. Gotham was suddenly all blue and sterile instead of brown and gritty. No mention of of his parents. No Bat Cave. Nuffin.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

It's not an impossibility that the finger print would have been on the bullet. The casing doesn't cover the entire thing, a portion of the bullet is exposed and could easily have been touched by White when he was loading it into his gun magazine or whatever. Would it have made more sense to use the casing? Sure, but it may not have been around, and that story beat was there to further develop the sonar technology so that it would be used on a massive scale at the end of the film (which Batman did totally without Lucius by the way). Granted the technology itself is a little screwy, but c'mon, it's a comic book movie.

The only part of a bullet exposed is the head. The finger print wasn't on the head, it was on the main body of the bullet.

Now it's a comic book movie, i know. But doing that whole bullet reconstruction/scanning thing just reeked of trying to be too clever. And it back fired. Because that whole method is just stupid.

Batman did no real detective work in TDK. Apart from the bullet scanning thing which makes no sense at all. Yea he found Melvin White's address. Yea he found out which cops were gonna attempt to kill the mayor. But all that came from a plot beat that makes no sense. Simple as that.

The closest he got to doing detective work was pretending to be interested in doing a deal with Lau's company so he could get a closer look at the books.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yes, he did.

A couple of people here are looking at the detective work through rose colored glasses. Batman deduced the location of Melvin White's place at Loeb's funeral. He found out which Cops likely to try and assassinate Reese. He set up the Sonar technology to locate the Joker.

These claims that he relies on tech he didn't create completely applies to Begins, too. He didn't create any of the technology in Begins. It all came form Lucius. In fact, when Begins was released, many people were crying foul over that. Even likening Lucius to Q from the James Bond movies.

I criticized Begins for it to.

But still, in Begins he does more practical detective work than in TDK. Where literally ALL of it was done by technology (in one case using technology that makes zero sense), not his natural detective instincts.

Like i said before, he uses his raw intellect and natural detective instincts more in 89 and Forever than he does in both Begins and TDK.

Batman never figured out Ra's plan in Begins. He stumbled onto it by pure chance. Gordon told him about Flass. He interrogated Flass who told him to go to the Narrows place. He went to the Narrows and bumped into Crane. Rachel told him Falcone was put into Arkham by Crane, and he followed her, and stumbled on the poisoning the water operation. It was Lucius who told him that you can't spread the poison by water, that you need a microwave emitter.

You're grasping at straws here. Gathering info by asking/interrogating people, following leads, actually following/tailing people is all part of being a detective. That's REAL detective work.

Some utterly ******ed bullet scanning thing that makes zero sense is not detective work.

Batman didn't even make the antidote to Crane's toxin. Lucius did. In the comics, Batman is scientifically trained, and makes all his own antidotes and anti-toxins.

You're right. Another flaw with this new Batman.

Burton's Batman figured out the Joker's poison scheme and developed the cure himself.

 

[The Joker]

There was an indirect mention of them when Batman confronts Harvey while he's interrogating Thomas Schiff. He says Dent is the first legitimate ray of hope in Gotham in decades, i.e. since the Waynes. But I agree that this is a perfect time for the story to return to them .


It's not an impossibility that the finger print would have been on the bullet. The casing doesn't cover the entire thing, a portion of the bullet is exposed and could easily have been touched by White when he was loading it into his gun magazine or whatever. Would it have made more sense to use the casing? Sure, but it may not have been around, and that story beat was there to further develop the sonar technology so that it would be used on a massive scale at the end of the film (which Batman did totally without Lucius by the way). Granted the technology itself is a little screwy, but c'mon, it's a comic book movie.

Thank you

I criticized Begins for it to.

But still, in Begins he does more practical detective work than in TDK. Where literally ALL of it was done by technology (in one case using technology that makes zero sense), not his natural detective instincts.

I don't get this criticism. Detective work is detective work. What difference does it make if you use a computer or a science lab to investigate something? It's all tools used to figure out something.

There no more practical detective work in Begins. It was people holding his hand and telling him what he needed to hear.That's not practical detective work.

He worked out the whole thing with Melvin's white apartment, the possible threat of any Cops trying to kill Reese etc. Batman often comes up with these hunches, and then investigates them on his computer.

All they do is either confirm or deny his theories.

Like i said before, he uses his raw intellect and natural detective instincts more in 89 and Forever than he does in both Begins and TDK.

He's a better detective in virtually every other medium. Even Adam West's Batman was a science whizz and brilliant detective.

You're grasping at straws here. Gathering info by asking/interrogating people, following leads, actually following/tailing people is all part of being a detective. That's REAL detective work.

No, I'm not grasping at straws, you're looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Everything was handed to him by sheer luck and chance. From accidentally stumbling across Crane, to Rachel getting her phone call about Falcone in Arkham while standing in front of Bruce, to stumbling upon the poisoning water operation in Arkham.

He didn't figure any of this out. He didn't act on a hunch, or gather evidence to lead him to any of this. It was all sheer luck and chance that he stumbled on it.

And even then, he needed Lucius and Ra's to spell out to him exactly what was going on with the poisoning the water thing.

Some utterly ******ed bullet scanning thing that makes zero sense is not detective work.

Yes, it IS detective work. Whether the technology exists or not is irrelevant.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The technology will never exist... because the idea behind the technology doesn't make sense.

You cannot get finger prints off of actual bullets. Fingers or thumbs do not come into contact with bullets. They come into contact with the casings.

 

[The Joker]

The technology will never exist... because the idea behind the technology doesn't make sense.

By that logic you must loathe 90% of Marvel's movies, because the science proposed in them is ridiculous. This is why I laugh when I see people accuse Nolan's Batman movies of being realistic. They are anything but.

Btw, also thought of another bit of detective work done in TDK: The whole thing with the marked bills Batman gave the Cops to find out where the Mob was laundering their money.

 

[Figs]

Well hopefully in the third film they might have Batman take fingerprints off of some broken glass or doing some blood work, then maybe everyone will be happy.

I just hope Nolan makes Gotham as well as Batman darker like they were in Begins. I'm pretty confident Wayne Manor and the Batcave will be back, if they're not, then that's a big fail on Nolan's part.

As others have already said I also want the film to focus on Bruce/Batman again just like in Begins. I get it that Joker and Two Face were two major villians the general audience will automatically know of but I hope in the third film Nolan uses the villians how he did in BB.