BvS The Official Zack Snyder Directs Everything Thread - Part 2

[Kobra]

When the MCU can sell modern audiences on a character like Captain America there is no excuse for anyone not getting Superman to go down with the public now.

The 1970s was a ****** time where your blockbuster protagonists were characters like Michael Corleone and yet Donner and co didn't have to break the character down so audiences could find him 'relatable'.

How about the possibility that Superman hasn't gone down well with general audiences in awhile because you have various production teams that have poorly tried turning him into something he's not by conception.

I don't think you're being fair comparing Superman to CA. Most people don't have any sort of preconceived notion regarding CA. When you talk about Superman, a lot of people, if not most, think about CR and THAT Superman. It's iconic, it's memorable, it's part of a lot people's life.

 

[The Guard]

The Cap argument is a bit disingenuous. Cap's earnest elements (which I like) are largely played for comedy in Marvels films until the end of The Winter Soldier. It's like a running gag. Evans sells it, but it's often mocked within the films and made into "man out of time" style jokes. The earnest moments that are not played for laughs tend to be, yup, serious and even dark.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

The Cap argument is a bit disingenuous. A, Cap's earnest elements (which I like) are largely played for comedy in Marvels films until the end of The Winter Soldier. It's like a running gag. Evans sells it, but it's mocked within the films. The earnest moments that are not played for laughs tend to be, yup, serious and even dark.

Absolutely. First Avenger was more true to core Captain America and it wasn't a big success. Winter Soldier Captain America is basicaly Ethan Hunt with a shield. That made him popular, not "all american hero" or "old school nice guy" stuff.

It's almost like Thor would be better comparision with Superman at the moment. He is a friendly alien with god-like powers and has a human girlfriend.

 

[daddydivine]

Absolutely. First Avenger was more true to core Captain America and it wasn't a big success. Winter Soldier Captain America is basicaly Ethan Hunt with a shield. That made him popular, not "all american hero" or "old school nice guy" stuff.

It's almost like Thor would be better comparision with Superman at the moment. He is a friendly alien with god-like powers and has a human girlfriend.

But, Cap never lost his "All American Hero" or "Old School Nice Guy" status. They created an action packed movie while still remaining true to core Captain America. Seems like a great comparison as well as a lesson on how to get it done.

 

[Leenie]

I'm now convinced more than ever that Captain America is our modern day Superman (at least in the cinema).

Seriously, if Marvel can get the general audience and the critics to back Cap as enthusiastically as they do, then there's no excuse to fail like this with Superman. You CAN make a heavy-handed or "darker" Superman movie without stripping the aspects that make this character so great. The Winter Soldier is proof of that.

Alas, it turns out that this current Superman has been a complete waste; a complete waste of talent with Henry Cavill and his supporting cast (like Lawrence Fishburne and Amy Adams), a complete waste of an iconic character, and (from the looks of it) ... A complete waste of a potential franchise for DC.

Thanks a lot Warner Bros. and Zack Snyder. :

You know what also ticks me off? I'm angry every time I see a gif or a video of Cavill behind the scenes while filming, enjoying some down time in his costume. The smile, the body language ... THAT'S SUPERMAN. They had the guy ... They had him, damn it! But they just HAD to write and direct him as the Buzz Killington of superhero movies. WHY.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I've always wanted a cynical-real world Superman movie.

So I'm okay with BvS

 

[samsnee]

Absolutely. First Avenger was more true to core Captain America and it wasn't a big success. Winter Soldier Captain America is basicaly Ethan Hunt with a shield. That made him popular, not "all american hero" or "old school nice guy" stuff.

It's almost like Thor would be better comparision with Superman at the moment. He is a friendly alien with god-like powers and has a human girlfriend.

When CA was first published, he was a jingoistic character. But since he got thawed from the ice, it's been less about "America first!" and more about a sincerity in doing what's right and not being cynical, which the movies have gotten right.

It's easy to make Superman conflicted about his powers and if he should help those who see him as an alien. What makes him good is that he doesn't give in to those feelings of bitterness and cynicism. The whole "join you in the sun" line which MoS got right but didn't really follow through on.

 

[UltraSuperGuy]

The Cap argument is a bit disingenuous. Cap's earnest elements (which I like) are largely played for comedy in Marvels films until the end of The Winter Soldier. It's like a running gag. Evans sells it, but it's often mocked within the films and made into "man out of time" style jokes. The earnest moments that are not played for laughs tend to be, yup, serious and even dark.

This isn't entirely true, Joss Whedon wrote Cap that way in the Avengers movies because Wheedon just doesn't know how to write for Cap at all when all of his characters are quippy and sarcastic. So Whedon made Cap the butt of his jokes (which is annoying).

However, in the two Captain America solo films, Cap is written totally with respect and without taking cheap shots at his character or image.

 

[Daedalus]

I am mostly a lurker on this side of the board (though admitedly I have posted sparingly as of late), but I will jump in for a minute to provide my two cents.

I am a DC fanboy. I like Marvel, I have a fun time at their movies, but the DC characters resonate better with me: I grew up on BTAS and STAS, I read DC regularly, and I have binged Young Justice more than once to try and make season 3 happen. I am the kind of guy who would be guaranteed audience for this movie. But I won't be seeing it in theaters. You see, I really, really dislike Zack Snyder's work: I don't care for 300, I suffered through Sucker Punch, and I don't even mildly enjoy Man of Steel. I think Snyder thinks and directs like an adolescent who likes to flaunt macho attitude, fantasize about scandidly clad women, and repeat unecessary "cool, bruh" moments. It's like hearing that guy who never grew out of the frat-boy phase in college, and it's tiring. So I will for once follow through with my online promises, vote with my wallet, and not go see this.

I don't mean to say that just because Snyder failed at his "darker" attempt at superhero movies the genre cannot be serious. There is a place out there for superhero movies - even ones featuring Superman - that touch on complex issues, and it isn't even hard to brainstorm a story around it: make it a dilemma, pitting a Superman who stands on absolute morals (there are lines we should never cross) against an utilitarian Lex Luthor (it is worth killing X number of people if the total welfare for humanity is positive). Or perhaps use Clark, Lois and Jimmy's profession to follow through an investigative journalism story parallel to the action. They discover an elaborate scheme following the deployment of Vlatavan troops on Bialya, leading to the appointment of UN Secretary-General Lex Luthor. Perhaps it involves Daily Planet CEO Morgan Edge pushing for the news to be presented in a certain way. There are plenty of great stories to be told with Clark Kent/Superman, you just have to be a tiny bit creative and hire the right people for the job.

And of course, the core of the characters need to be gotten right: Superman should always be a symbol of hope and justice, in whatever way he is featured. It's his entire purpose. For all the Christian symbolism on Man of Steel - and unlike others, I am not bothered by the messianic parallels -, Snyder forgot to show the most important of them: that both Kal-El and Christ (regardless if we believe his holy status or not) inspire countless others. Superman is meant to stand for something, and to have a positive effect on those around him. Flying really quick and looking cool with the cape are just visual flair.

 

[Serpico Jones]

I will say this for Snyder: the man is a fantastic visual filmmaker. Several scenes look and feel like moving paintings.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

I will say this for Snyder: the man is a fantastic visual filmmaker. Several scenes look and feel like moving paintings.

Yeah, he just needs right material for himself.

 

[OdinSon]

I will say this for Snyder: the man is a fantastic visual filmmaker. Several scenes look and feel like moving paintings.

That amounts to nothing if he can't tell a story. That is why he has never made a movie that received critical acclaim. We don't go to cinema to look at a series of nice looking paintings.

 

[Sawyer]

We don't go to cinema just to look at a series of nice looking paintings.

 

[Leenie]

I will say this for Snyder: the man is a fantastic visual filmmaker. Several scenes look and feel like moving paintings.

I respectfully disagree.

Snyder has a distinctive style, that's for sure. I personally don't find it appealing, though.

 

[Brother Jack]

I respectfully disagree.

Snyder has a distinctive style, that's for sure. I personally don't find it appealing, though.

Yeah, there are things about his compositions that I admire but he has certain proclivities that bring it down. Like the slo-mo and the murkiness of the color palettes. There's a particular artificiality to it that doesn't do much for me. He just doesn't know when to restrain himself, leading to goofy-ass imagery like kid Bruce floating up the well in a pillar of bats.

 

[Sawyer]

Yeah, there are things about his compositions that I admire but he has certain proclivities that bring it down. Like the slo-mo and the murkiness of the color palettes. There's a particular artificiality to it that doesn't do much for me. He just doesn't know when to restrain himself, leading to goofy-ass imagery like kid Bruce floating up the well in a pillar of bats.

I liked that bit.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm personally not a fan of his aesthetic either, but I can also see why so many people like it. It certainly has its qualities.

 

[Leenie]

Yeah, there are things about his compositions that I admire but he has certain proclivities that bring it down. Like the slo-mo and the murkiness of the color palettes. There's a particular artificiality to it that doesn't do much for me. He just doesn't know when to restrain himself, leading to goofy-ass imagery like kid Bruce floating up the well in a pillar of bats.

Agreed. Oh goodness, this post is taking me back to the Watchmen movie. Talk about goofy imagery ...

The climax of BvS ... The Doomsday battle ... Maybe I'm an old fart or whatever, but all that was to me was a bunch of loud and gray noise. It was the opposite of engaging, appealing, or exciting for me.

 

[matt47]

People go off at me for not liking Snyder/Fong's style. I don't like my movies looking fake because as soon as I see the shot I don't think it looks beautiful, I think it looks fake and it takes me out of the moment.

 

[kalelvis]

I like Snyder visual style but it s clear that a lot of people take issue with his editing and structural aesthetic. I say keep him as co director but move up affleck to co director as well. The worse thing we can do right now is abandon the oniverse they have set up with two movies in the can and superman "dead." It is a pretty easy checklist to get things back on track: abandon non linear story telling, better match the tone to the character and put more focus into editing the film at the screen play level instead of spending the money on a four hour film that ends up being choppy to have enough showings for a tent pole film.

 

[Logan0327]

the opening credits of BVS is the best example of snyder at his finest imo

 

[Jekecy]

the opening credits of BVS is the best example of snyder at his finest imo

Snyder at his finest almost always tends to be montages set to mood music. He specializes in short-form minimalist storytelling.

 

[Predator jp]

you know what also ticks me off? I'm angry every time i see a gif or a video of cavill behind the scenes while filming, enjoying some down time in his costume. The smile, the body language ... That's superman. They had the guy ... They had him, damn it! But they just had to write and direct him as the buzz killington of superhero movies. Why.

this.

 

[Frankeh]

Yeah, there are things about his compositions that I admire but he has certain proclivities that bring it down. Like the slo-mo and the murkiness of the color palettes. There's a particular artificiality to it that doesn't do much for me. He just doesn't know when to restrain himself, leading to goofy-ass imagery like kid Bruce floating up the well in a pillar of bats.

I agree. I also feel that most of his awesome imagery is lifted from somewhere else.

 

[matt47]

Snyder at his finest almost always tends to be montages set to mood music. He specializes in short-form minimalist storytelling.

And it helps when you already have most of the shots laid out for you.