The Punisher The Punisher FULL SEASON ONE Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[Dasher10]

​

Discuss the entire first season of The Punisher here.


BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!
​

 

[MurkeNyou]

Spoiler

Lots o' people gonna Die

 

[Dasher10]

So... Jigsaw lives...

Anyone want to bet that he'll be the employer of Richard Van Burien and Barracuda if there's a season 2? (And it really sucks that Disney's streaming shenanigans make Inhumans more likely to be renewed.)

 

[webhead731]

I don't want to spoil anything except one thing. Just one question:

Does Billy become Jigsaw?

 

[Dasher10]

I don't want to spoil anything except one thing. Just one question:

Does Billy become Jigsaw?

Sorry, double post.

 

[Dasher10]

I don't want to spoil anything except one thing. Just one question:

Does Billy become Jigsaw?

Yes but only in the last episode.

 

[samsnee]

So is this like the other series and about 5 episodes too long? Are there any Easter Eggs to the rest of the MCU?

I just don’t have a lot of desire to slog through this.

 

[Dasher10]

So is this like the other series and about 5 episodes too long? Are there any Easter Eggs to the rest of the MCU?

I just don’t have a lot of desire to slog through this.

Takes about two episodes to get going. It really picks up after that.

 

[MurkeNyou]

This show hit the ground running, dayum. It's a pretty dense, dark show, people expecting this action flick Segal style 90's product are gonna be disappointed and call it boring. It's an almost Sons of Anarchy like tone.

 

[mikeboydus]

I didn't mind the story starting slow, but it never built up to the raw power that DD season 1 or 2 did.

The last couple of episodes should have been balls to the wall, but instead the action was pretty light, overall the series was more of a crime drama thriller.

As for easter eggs, I didn't notice any. There were plenty of chances to reference things like SHIELD, Hydra, Civil War, Winter Soldier, Ten Rings, etc. but not a single reference.

Instead the references to the other Netflix series felt more like easter eggs. The show really felt like it was in a different universe than even DD season 2. The Punisher here was vulnerable, prone to mistakes, weakness, and felt more human as opposed to the killing machine in DD. The villains were generic conspiracy thriller types with no greater objective than to make money. It feels like a lot of wasted potential.

 

[TheVileOne]

Madani is the absolute worst. Character is forced, and all her dialogue is really forced. She just didn't work at all. If they wanted a female government agent, why did they make one up instead of using one from the comics to possibly have to connect with Frank?

Bernthal is great, but I feel like he's constantly sidelined here.

Here's the show's biggest mistake. We spent a whole season waiting for him to get the skull in Daredevil. Here after just four minutes, he's already taken it off and retired as the Punisher. So now we are basically back to square one and basically have to build him back up again as the Punisher.

Why is Frank going out in broad daylight and playing house with Micro's family? He's not exactly incognito. His identity and face are already publicly known. I find it hard to believe Sarah has no idea who the Punisher is. She freaking lives in New York. This subplot is horribly predictable. I could see the moment of Frank being alone with Sarah getting drunk with her and her trying to bang him from a mile away.

It's like Steve Lightfoot forgot this was The Punisher at times. To have entire episodes where Frank and Micro are just sitting around goofing off and getting drunk, while Madani is driving most of the action IMHO is unforgivable.

The Lewis subplot was also bad.

I liked Micro as a character and his relationship with Frank, but the pacing was too slow. Too many subplots and too many characters. Frank gets regressed right at the outset. I kind of got the sense the writers and producers were skittish on how to approach this series in 2017.

Where is Frank's one man war on crime? Where is Frank being the boogeyman to perps? Where is it? I haven't seen it yet at all over halfway in.

 

[TMC1982]

By transcending what it appears to be, Netflix's The Punisher turns out surprisingly great
At first, the Marvel series seems like another misstep, says Sonia Soraiya. “In the television landscape at large, another overwhelmingly gray and brutally violent show centered on a dysfunctional antihero is superfluous,” she says. “Within the superhero genre, it’s even more so. But The Punisher transcends what it appears to be. Not completely, and not always; this is still a very violent show, saturated in tortured masculinity ... But thanks to Jon Bernthal’s seamless performance as the non-superpowered vigilante Frank Castle and showrunner Steve Lightfoot’s sharp, conscious storytelling, The Punisher approaches the high points of Marvel’s Jessica Jones by introducing a damaged, deadly character and telling his story as one piece of an unjust whole.”

ALSO:

• It’s a surprisingly sensitive look at what it’s like to be a soldier
  
  It glosses over The Punisher’s violent vigilante's murderous tendencies with a compelling conspiracy thriller
  
  Bernthal’s Punisher is perfect for a four- to six-hour miniseries, but 13 episodes is stretching it
  
  “The good stuff is surrounded by an imaginatively impoverished wasteland”

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Just finished the season and here are my initial thoughts on it on my first viewing, I might add more after I see it a second time in a month or so once I let it all sit.

I'll start off by saying that this series isn't at all what you think it will be. Don't go in expecting something like John Wick because this is honestly closer to First Blood than anything else. The opening is great and the name drops of things from the Punisher comics (Castiglione, Gnucci family) made me squeal in delight and seeing Frank kill guys with the skull on his chest and a trench coast made the Punisher fan in me happy as hell. Despite the show being violent and brutal at times I feel that Steve Lightfoot of Hannibal fame actually reigned in the character way too much and sadly I understand why.

The Punisher is a hard sell to a mass audience in the wake of the massacres of the past years. I hate to say it but Frank's methods and iconic image is bound to piss off or offend people in this day and age, having a series revolve around a man who has unparalleled military training and a proficiency with guns is almost suicide and you'd have to surround the series with characters to balance out Frank. Make no mistake, I LOVE the character of The Punisher because I feel there are times where the law is inadequate and a man like him would solve some problems the law willfully ignores. Frank Castle was born out of the 70s in NY where corruption and crime was rampant throughout the city and antiheroes like Dirty Harry or the Death Wish series satisfied the audience need for ultimate justice. I hate to say it but this hyper sensitive and anti gun climate we exist in forced the creative team on this series to tip toe around its full potential because of the subject matter at hand. With a character like Frank its almost entirely impossible to neuter him but they definitely kept it low key for the most part.

The Punisher works best when he is let loose to do awful things to even worse people and having characters on the show like Dinah seemed like a waste of time. Also tacking on the subplot of an unstable vet committing terrorist attack was kinda frustrating. The season arc could have been done in a few episodes and I feel that there are far more interesting Punisher stories to tell such as the Welcome Back, Frank story or The Slavers.

What I did love about the series is that Jon Bernthal nailed The Punisher and Frank Castle. He is the definitive actor in the role and even beats out Thomas Jane who was my favorite up until this point. His friendship with Micro was a highlight of the series and Billy Russo, who Punisher fans know as Jigsaw, also has a great arc here that ties him closer to the Punisher instead of being some random thug Frank messed up. Exploring Frank's trauma and seeing the kind of stuff vets have to deal with coming home was also a subject I think the show handled well.

If the show gets a Season 2, which I hope it does, I hope they got this whole conspiracy thing about his family out of the way and focus on what The Punisher does best, take down the worst scum of the earth criminals that walk our streets. If i were to rank this series i'd probably say it comes in 3rd after Daredevil S1 and S2.

I give it a B+ score overall.

What I liked:
- Bernthal nails the Punisher. His movement, his guttural roar, his little mannerisms, everything about his acting was perfect.
- The friendship between Frank and Micro
- Frank's torture at the hands of his memories. His inner struggle with his guilt.
- Little call backs to the comics: Gnucci family, Castiglione name, Frank mostly using 1911's, the trench coat, Battle Van, "Welcome Back, Frank." being uttered.
- The skull was beautiful in the brief moments it appeared.
- Russo being closely tied to Frank makes him more than just a random thug he disfigured, its poetic.
- When Frank is actually Punishing people its a delight to watch

What I didn't like:
- Dinah's character and the whole Homeland stuff was too much of a distraction.
- Wilson's subplot was also lame and the fact Frank didn't finish him off himself was frustrating.
- The entire season could have been done in 5 episodes. It would have been more entertaining to see him systemically take out a mob family or show him actually Punishing awful criminals.
- While there was a lot of shooting I think more gunfights would have been nice.

What I'd like for the next season:
- More Punisher skull.
- If Netflix is dead set on 13 episode seasons then amp up the pace by having the season broken up into 3 or so arcs. 4 episodes per arc or something to that nature.
- If you're gonna add a character like Dinah then make it someone from the comics like Martin Soap and Molly Richtofen. I had zero interest in the Dinah character.
- Introduce villains like Buschwhacker who need to be a formidable adversarie to Frank.
- More action.
- Frank being a legend/boogeyman to criminals. They speak about him from stories they heard and have a legit fear of him. Same way they did for John Wick in his movies.

 

[righthooksrus86]

Overall Im really disappointed, but I guess it's half because I wanted something more along the lines of the Marvel MAX comics instead of the soap opera s**t we got in the first 9 episodes (Frank making out with Micro's wife really??)...and maybe also because I overhyped this show for myself. Im holding out hope that one day I'll see something like Up Is Down and Black is White or Kitchen Irish in live action.

 

[righthooksrus86]

Just finished the season and here are my initial thoughts on it on my first viewing, I might add more after I see it a second time in a month or so once I let it all sit.

I'll start off by saying that this series isn't at all what you think it will be. Don't go in expecting something like John Wick because this is honestly closer to First Blood than anything else. The opening is great and the name drops of things from the Punisher comics (Castiglione, Gnucci family) made me squeal in delight and seeing Frank kill guys with the skull on his chest and a trench coast made the Punisher fan in me happy as hell. Despite the show being violent and brutal at times I feel that Steve Lightfoot of Hannibal fame actually reigned in the character way too much and sadly I understand why.

The Punisher is a hard sell to a mass audience in the wake of the massacres of the past years. I hate to say it but Frank's methods and iconic image is bound to piss off or offend people in this day and age, having a series revolve around a man who has unparalleled military training and a proficiency with guns is almost suicide and you'd have to surround the series with characters to balance out Frank. Make no mistake, I LOVE the character of The Punisher because I feel there are times where the law is inadequate and a man like him would solve some problems the law willfully ignores. Frank Castle was born out of the 70s in NY where corruption and crime was rampant throughout the city and antiheroes like Dirty Harry or the Death Wish series satisfied the audience need for ultimate justice. I hate to say it but this hyper sensitive and anti gun climate we exist in forced the creative team on this series to tip toe around its full potential because of the subject matter at hand. With a character like Frank its almost entirely impossible to neuter him but they definitely kept it low key for the most part.

The Punisher works best when he is let loose to do awful things to even worse people and having characters on the show like Dinah seemed like a waste of time. Also tacking on the subplot of an unstable vet committing terrorist attack was kinda frustrating. The season arc could have been done in a few episodes and I feel that there are far more interesting Punisher stories to tell such as the Welcome Back, Frank story or The Slavers.

What I did love about the series is that Jon Bernthal nailed The Punisher and Frank Castle. He is the definitive actor in the role and even beats out Thomas Jane who was my favorite up until this point. His friendship with Micro was a highlight of the series and Billy Russo, who Punisher fans know as Jigsaw, also has a great arc here that ties him closer to the Punisher instead of being some random thug Frank messed up. Exploring Frank's trauma and seeing the kind of stuff vets have to deal with coming home was also a subject I think the show handled well.

If the show gets a Season 2, which I hope it does, I hope they got this whole conspiracy thing about his family out of the way and focus on what The Punisher does best, take down the worst scum of the earth criminals that walk our streets. If i were to rank this series i'd probably say it comes in 3rd after Daredevil S1 and S2.

I give it a B+ score overall.

What I liked:
- Bernthal nails the Punisher. His movement, his guttural roar, his little mannerisms, everything about his acting was perfect.
- The friendship between Frank and Micro
- Frank's torture at the hands of his memories. His inner struggle with his guilt.
- Little call backs to the comics: Gnucci family, Castiglione name, Frank mostly using 1911's, the trench coat, Battle Van, "Welcome Back, Frank." being uttered.
- The skull was beautiful in the brief moments it appeared.
- Russo being closely tied to Frank makes him more than just a random thug he disfigured, its poetic.
- When Frank is actually Punishing people its a delight to watch

What I didn't like:
- Dinah's character and the whole Homeland stuff was too much of a distraction.
- Wilson's subplot was also lame and the fact Frank didn't finish him off himself was frustrating.
- The entire season could have been done in 5 episodes. It would have been more entertaining to see him systemically take out a mob family or show him actually Punishing awful criminals.
- While there was a lot of shooting I think more gunfights would have been nice.

What I'd like for the next season:
- More Punisher skull.
- If Netflix is dead set on 13 episode seasons then amp up the pace by having the season broken up into 3 or so arcs. 4 episodes per arc or something to that nature.
- If you're gonna add a character like Dinah then make it someone from the comics like Martin Soap and Molly Richtofen. I had zero interest in the Dinah character.
- Introduce villains like Buschwhacker who need to be a formidable adversarie to Frank.
- More action.
- Frank being a legend/boogeyman to criminals. They speak about him from stories they heard and have a legit fear of him. Same way they did for John Wick in his movies.

Gotta say this is one of the things I wanted to see the most, But I guess it makes sense since everyone thinks The Punisher is dead. We only got Two episodes of of the Punisher skull!!! smh

 

[TheVileOne]

This series wasn't really a Punisher series. Sorry, but it wasn't.

What kind of ending was that for this season anyway? IMHO, that's something you could do if you want to give some type of ending to Frank Castle's character. As unrealistic as it is for the government to just let him go scotfree.

Here's the problem now. There's no need for The Punisher to exist anymore. He's cleaned the table for everything. His whole motivation was taking down the people behind his family's death. Now he's given that up. He accepted the government's deal, and he's going to group therapy. He said he doesn't have a war to fight anymore.

The whole point of The Punisher is that his war is against crime itself. As irrational as that is. But whoever said Frank Castle was rational. But this show changed all that around. He's not really interested in dispensing justice to the other drug cartels or mafia bosses.

So where does that really leave us for a second season? Nowhere.

I think the issue is that the writers and producers were scared to go that far with Frank Castle. His revenge was focused on the government conspiracy to give him a fixed end to his journey, so he can let go of it at some point. He basically does twice. At the start and at the end. I think Hollywood was too scared that they would be glorifying this type of character who just wants to murder criminals instead of beating them up and see them get arrested so they will eventually get back out and cause more trouble.

Unfortunately, I fear we will never get the "real" Punisher anymore at this point.

The soap opera stuff this season was mind-numbing. I saw what happened with Sarah and Frank coming a mile away. First of all, he's a wanted fugitive playing house with them. He's well known in New York. I refuse to believe Micro's family never saw his face before. And then you have Sarah kissing Frank, which was so telegraphed that would happen at some point.

The Lewis Wilson subplot was awful and basically went nowhere. Had nothing to do with the central plot really, and Frank had no connection to that character either.

Person of Interest was a superior Punisher series to this one really.

The other issue is the show really overdid it with Frank's beatings. He comes back from near death in multiple episodes and then he's up and about with just some cuts and bruises in a matter of hours.

 

[flickchick85]

Alright, so I really liked it for the most part. Random thoughts:

-I didn't hate Madani, and was glad she lived. Shohreh Aghdashloo as her mother was a waste of a great actress, though. I kept waiting for her character to become more significant.

-Nice to see you again, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio! A friend and I just had a conversation the other day wondering where she'd gone off to, lol.

-The Frank/Micro dynamic makes the show. It really does.

-I love Frank/Karen, but don't want an actual romance.

-Never much cared for Ben Barnes, but I thought he did well as Russo. There were no villains here on the level of Kingpin or Purple Man, but I'm still looking forward to his return as Jigsaw.

-The action was great, and exactly the kind of violence I would expect from the Punisher.

-The ending, however, was NOT. Seriously, that is the exact opposite of the ending a Punisher show should have. I was looking forward to seeing how they would find a way to segue this back into his war on criminals from DD S2, and realize his war is never ending, even after revenge. Not...this. That's not not The Punisher. Boo.

Overall, I'd rank it well behind DD and JJ, but still better than the other Marvel/Netflix endeavors.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think they radically changed Frank's character to appease the politically correct era of 2017. Maybe that wasn't it, but what kind of ending is that really? And how do you go back from that?

 

[flickchick85]

It almost felt like a last minute revision.

 

[Slick]

Q&A with Steve Lightfoot
http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/17/marvel-punisher-finale-spoilers-potential-season-2/amp/

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I think they radically changed Frank's character to appease the politically correct era of 2017. Maybe that wasn't it, but what kind of ending is that really? And how do you go back from that?

I don't think the end necessarily means that it's difficult to get into a second season. Maybe he actually does give living a second life a legitimate chance but eventually just come to terms with the fact that he cannot let evil exists when he can do something about it. Kind of how Matt eventually dons the Daredevil costume again.

 

[Dasher10]

I'd adapt Mother Russia and Man of Stone. Replace Rawlins role in the story with Richard Van Burien. O'Brien kidnaps/recruits Frank and sends him over to a Russian bio-lab to stop the Russians from developing a weaponized ebola strain. They recover it but the Russians shoot their plane down over Afghanistan. The Taliban get control of the virus and the Russians invade Afghanistan to get it back.

Frank and O'Brien are the only survivors of the plane crash. They're caught in a three-way battle between a Ranger batallion, the Taliban and a Spetznaz unit commanded by Nikolai Zhakarov who served in Afghanistan back in the 1980s. Frank and O'Brien recover the virus but are captured by the Russians thanks to a mercenary they hired from Anvil named Richard Van Burien who has a past history with Frank but was dishonorably discharged for massacring a village full of civilians. Van Burien kills Zhakarov and plans on stealing the virus for Jigsaw to sell to the highest bidder.

Frank is forced to kill Van Burien in an epic sniper duel and decides to destroy the virus in front of O'Brien and O'Brien decided to lie on her reports rather than let anyone have control of the virus. Frank is allowed to return to his normal life but Jigsaw informs the Gnucci family that Frank killed a number of them back when he was working construction and O'Brien learns that she's pregnant with Frank's child to set up a potential Season 3.

Perfect season 2 outline right there. Spend the first two episodes in New York City, then the next five in Russia, then the next six in Afghanistan. Avoids Netflix drift by splitting the season up into multiple arcs like Agents of SHIELD did.

I'd also replace Fury's role in the story with Sharon Carter if Jackson can't be scheduled but Van Camp can. Plus I feel like she'd ask for less money.

 

[Hotwire]

Spoiler

Billy killing Sam and then consoling Madani while washing Sam's blood off of her is some next level f***ed UP!

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I'd do 3 mini arcs for season 2.

First 4 episodes should adapt Welcome Back, Frank. Have Thomas Jane came in that arc since his movie was loosely based off of it.
Next 4 episodes should be Mother Russia/Widowmaker or an arc with Jigsaw.
Final 5 episodes should be the Slavers.

Frank works best in tight, concise smaller arcs instead of whole season type. DD S2's first 4 episodes with him were perfect except there should be way more focus on him in his series.

 

[Dasher10]

I'd do 3 mini arcs for season 2.

First 4 episodes should adapt Welcome Back, Frank. Have Thomas Jane came in that arc since his movie was loosely based off of it.
Next 4 episodes should be Mother Russia/Widowmaker or an arc with Jigsaw.
Final 5 episodes should be the Slavers.

Frank works best in tight, concise smaller arcs instead of whole season type. DD S2's first 4 episodes with him were perfect except there should be way more focus on him in his series.

I’d rather see season 2 be two into episodes, then Mother Russia, then Man of Stone. Season 3 would start with Welcome Back Frank, then Long Cold Dark, then In The Blood. (And Terry Crews needs to be Barracuda.)

Season 4 would be the Greg Rucka run with Slavers in the middle as the people Rachel practices on before taking on Stephanie Gerard.