The REAL Marvel issue numbers....

[Elijya]

Well, hold on, to use that argument, are the characters appearing in Adjective less, New X-Men, and Astonishing not the real X-Men because they aren't in Uncanny? One could make a claim that the All New, All Different X-Men weren't the same as the X-Men we knew at the time. X-Factor was also completely shifted when Peter David took over.

Another aspect is the reprint era. Thor was clearly the leading character of JIM for several years before it bore his name, but Detective Comics doesn't need to have "Batman" in it's name to be counted as a Batman issue. Conversely, should X-Men be counted all the way up to present numbers even though several years were reprints?


(I know X-Men wasn't in the tally, and I don't really care all that much, just bringing up some points for debate)

 

[hippie_hunter]

Avengers was canceled at #503. Neither New Avengers or Mighty Avengers count towards it's numbering.

Ghost Rider is at volume 6 currently. Volume 1 (1967 - Starring Carter Slade) lasted 7 issues. Volume 2 (1973 - 1983 - Starring Johnny Blaze) lasted 81 issues. Volume 3 (1990 - 1998 - Starring Danny Ketch) lasted 94 issues. Volume 4 (2001 - 2002 - Starring Johnny Blaze) lasted 7 issues. Volume 5 (2005 - 2006 - Starring Johnny Blaze) lasted 6 issues. And the current volume 6 (Starring Johnny Blaze) is at 11 issues. Thus it is currently at #206.

And plus Captain America should be at #575 (#653 if you count Captain America Comics), the Incredible Hulk at 586, Thor at 587, and Dr. Strange at 263. If you count the 60 issue Mark Spector: Moon Knight (1989 - 1994), Moon Knight's numbering should be at #168

Tales of Suspense, Tales to Astonish, Journey into Mystery, and Strange Tales count towards their numbering despite being renamed.

 

[Elijya]

Back in 1968, the "First issue = more sales" mentality probably wasn't as prevalent as it is today. They probably decided on keeping the old numbering for people who were buying the books at that time and were following issue numbers, just so they wouldn't get too confused....

I don't really know why....

If this was never answered....

The "First issue = more sales" mentality was non existent, that's completely true. In fact, it was rather the opposite from what I understand. The issue numbers were a non-issue for several decades, no one payed them any mind until the 1960s when they occasionally started trying to do special issues for #100, 200, etc. in some places.

But the main reason had to do with publication. If a distributer was already ordering so many copies of, say, Tales of Suspense, to cancel it and launch a new Iron Man book wouldn't guarantee the distributor would order as many copies of a title which was already selling in favor of an unknown quantity, a title whose sales hadn't been proven yet. An even more major reason had to do with Marvel's publishing restrictions. If I recall correctly, Marvel books were being distributed by DC (or other company) for a period, and there was a limit to the number of titles they could release every month (somewhere between 8-12) So that's why you had anthology books, and the emergence of the Avengers. Since you couldn't have individual titles for every character because of the restrictions, why not throw them together into a team? Or have them share an anthology title.

The restrictions were lifted towards the end of the 60s (when Goodman sold the company) which was why there was a sudden influx of new Marvel titles 1968-1970, like Sub-Mariner, Silver Surfer, Conan, Iron Man (and conversely Cap taking over the numbers of Tales of Suspense)

 

[CConn]

I so wish Marvel would go back to the original numberings on a lot of books. I mean, in some cases, it makes some sense (IE, a new numbering for Flash every time a new character takes up the mantle), but the renumbering for a lot of Marvel titles have just been totally pointless. I mean, if they were to change it back right now, would anyone really care if they were buying Iron Man #453 rather than Iron Man #19?

 

[Elijya]

It might piss off/confuse the hell out of the people who jumped on at the most recent relaunch


Most of the number reverts did something nice, which was to run both the old and new numbers together for a few months, one in light print, the other in bold, and they switched in the middle

 

[CConn]

It wouldn't confuse anybody if they did the double numbers thing you mentioned.

 

[Themanofbat]

Avengers was canceled at #503. Neither New Avengers or Mighty Avengers count towards it's numbering.

That is a valid opinion... one that I thought of doing... I'm not really sure.

Ghost Rider is at volume 6 currently. Volume 1 (1967 - Starring Carter Slade) lasted 7 issues. Volume 2 (1973 - 1983 - Starring Johnny Blaze) lasted 81 issues. Volume 3 (1990 - 1998 - Starring Danny Ketch) lasted 94 issues. Volume 4 (2001 - 2002 - Starring Johnny Blaze) lasted 7 issues. Volume 5 (2005 - 2006 - Starring Johnny Blaze) lasted 6 issues. And the current volume 6 (Starring Johnny Blaze) is at 11 issues. Thus it is currently at #206.

Well, I didn't count the Carter Slade comics because it's not the same character. But there is an argument there, I suppose. But your volumes 4 & 5 don't count because they were mini-series, and as I've stated before, mini-series don't count. Otherwise, you'd have to add TONS of numbers to all the A-listers who still have on-goings as well as lots of minis.

If you count the 60 issue Mark Spector: Moon Knight (1989 - 1994), Moon Knight's numbering should be at #168

Marc Spectre: Moon Knight's 60 issue run is included in my list.

Tales of Suspense, Tales to Astonish, Journey into Mystery, and Strange Tales count towards their numbering despite being renamed.

That would be a big problem, because then Amazing Spider-Man should be +1 at whatever current issue it's at because of Amazing Fantasy #15.

And a LOT of those old antholgy books not only had ONE but TWO major players in the book... such as Tales of Suspense, which featured both Captain America and Iron Man. So if I did as you suggest, then one comic would represent in the numbering of two characters, and that doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, hold on, to use that argument, are the characters appearing in Adjective less, New X-Men, and Astonishing not the real X-Men because they aren't in Uncanny? One could make a claim that the All New, All Different X-Men weren't the same as the X-Men we knew at the time. X-Factor was also completely shifted when Peter David took over.

Another aspect is the reprint era. Thor was clearly the leading character of JIM for several years before it bore his name, but Detective Comics doesn't need to have "Batman" in it's name to be counted as a Batman issue. Conversely, should X-Men be counted all the way up to present numbers even though several years were reprints?


(I know X-Men wasn't in the tally, and I don't really care all that much, just bringing up some points for debate)

I thought about what you said, and I decided to eliminate the "New Avengers" from the counting, and simply go with Mighty Avengers, because that team is more of what the original Avengers were... a government sanctioned team of Marvel's biggest players to fight off the biggest threats.

So I have readjusted the numbers...

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Technically, your numbers are off. You got separate slots fer the different Spidey adjectives, yet She-Hulk started out as SAVAGE She-Hulk an' ya got them all counted together. Same with Avengers/New/Mighty. They're three different books.

The purpose of this thread, as I grasped it, was to make sense of the VOLUME issue an' show what books woulda been if left alone. Different titles shouldn't count towards the same volumes. If yer gonna split up the Spideys, gotta split them all.

 

[Themanofbat]

Technically, your numbers are off. You got separate slots fer the different Spidey adjectives, yet She-Hulk started out as SAVAGE She-Hulk an' ya got them all counted together. Same with Avengers/New/Mighty. They're three different books.

The purpose of this thread, as I grasped it, was to make sense of the VOLUME issue an' show what books woulda been if left alone. Different titles shouldn't count towards the same volumes. If yer gonna split up the Spideys, gotta split them all.

Well, She-Hulk did indeed start off as "Savage She-Hulk", then got cancelled and began again as "Sensational She-Hulk", then got cancelled again and so forth.

Since they were seperate titles of the same character, I can lump them inot one, just as the current volume of She-Hulk, when it hit #3, celebrated her 100th issue.

Same goes for Moon Knight... different title for the same character at different times.

I have the Spidey books seperated because at one point or another, these books have co-existed.

Make sense?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Seems kind of a bass ackwards way of doin' it.

 

[Not Jake]

You're so dumb. Spidey has to be split up into separate books because he's had long-running stints on separate titles coinciding with each other. He always has at least 3 books at the same time. You can't lump all those into one big Spider-Man category. However She-Hulk only ever has one titular book, and it's never around for very long.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That is a valid opinion... one that I thought of doing... I'm not really sure.

They're two completely different titles than Avengers. It doesn't count.

Well, I didn't count the Carter Slade comics because it's not the same character. But there is an argument there, I suppose. But your volumes 4 & 5 don't count because they were mini-series, and as I've stated before, mini-series don't count. Otherwise, you'd have to add TONS of numbers to all the A-listers who still have on-goings as well as lots of minis.

Minis do count if they're simply titled after the title character such as Ghost Rider, Sub-Mariner, and Martian Manhunter.

Marc Spectre: Moon Knight's 60 issue run is included in my list.

Oh yeah it is. You forgot the six issue Moon Knight mini series in 1985.

That would be a big problem, because then Amazing Spider-Man should be +1 at whatever current issue it's at because of Amazing Fantasy #15.

And a LOT of those old antholgy books not only had ONE but TWO major players in the book... such as Tales of Suspense, which featured both Captain America and Iron Man. So if I did as you suggest, then one comic would represent in the numbering of two characters, and that doesn't sit right with me.

Except the Amazing Spider-Man didn't continue from Amazing Fantasy. Amazing Fantasy was canceled after issue #15 and the Amazing Spider-Man started shortly afterwards as a brand new comic under a completely different name. Thor, Captain America, Hulk, and Dr. Strange were continuations of their respected anthology titles. Hence why they count.

 

[Themanofbat]

Amazing Spider-Man #585

ASM#1-441, 501-585 vol.1
ASM#1-59 vol.2

Fantastic Four #563

FF#1-416, 501-563 vol.1
FF#1-13 vol.2
FF#1-71 vol.3

Avengers #524

Avengers#1-402, 500 to 503 vol.1
Avengers#1-13 vol.2
Avengers#1-85 vol.3
Mighty Avengers #1-21

Hulk #499

Hulk#1-6 vol.1
Hulk#102-474 vol.2 (Tales to Astonish was renamed Hulk after #101)
Hulk#1-111 vol.3
Hulk#1-9 vol.4

Captain America #496

Captain America#100-454 vol.1 (Tales of Suspense was renamed Captain America after #99)
Captain America#1-13 vol.2
Captain America#1-50 vol.3
Captain America#1-32 vol.4
Captain America#1-46 vol.5

DareDevil #495

DareDevil#1-380 vol.1
DareDevil#1-115 vol.2

Iron Man #479

Iron Man#1-332 vol.1
Iron Man#1-13 vol.2
Iron Man#1-89 vol.3
Iron Man#1-35 vol.4
Iron Man#1-10 vol.5

Thor #474

Thor#126-502 vol.1 (Journey into Mystery was renamed to Thor after #125)
Thor#1-85 vol.2
Thor#1-12 vol.3

Spectacular Spider-Man #290

SSM#1-263 vol.1
SSM#1-27 vol.2

Ghost Rider #205

GR#1-81 vol.1
GR#1-93 vol.2
GR#1-31 vol.3

Marvel Team Up #186

MTU#1-150 vol.1
MTU#1-11 vol.2
MTU#1-25 vol.3

Silver Surfer #178

SS#1-18 vol.1
SS#1-146 vol.2
SS#1-14 vol.3

She-Hulk #134

SH#1-25 vol.1
SH#1-60 vol.2
SH#1-12 vol.3
SH#1-37 vol.4

Moon Knight #124

SH#1-38 vol.1
SH#1-60 vol.2
SH#1-26 vol.3

Dr. Strange #96

DS#169-182 vol.1 (Strange Tales was renamed Dr. Strange after #168)
DS#1-81 vol.2

 

[Hellion]

Amazing Spider-Man #585

ASM#1-441, 501-585 vol.1
ASM#1-59 vol.2

Fantastic Four #563

FF#1-416, 501-563 vol.1
FF#1-13 vol.2
FF#1-71 vol.3

Avengers #524

Avengers#1-402, 500 to 503 vol.1
Avengers#1-13 vol.2
Avengers#1-85 vol.3
Mighty Avengers #1-21

Hulk #499

Hulk#1-6 vol.1
Hulk#102-474 vol.2 (Tales to Astonish was renamed Hulk after #101)
Hulk#1-111 vol.3
Hulk#1-9 vol.4

Captain America #496

Captain America#100-454 vol.1 (Tales of Suspense was renamed Captain America after #99)
Captain America#1-13 vol.2
Captain America#1-50 vol.3
Captain America#1-32 vol.4
Captain America#1-46 vol.5

DareDevil #495

DareDevil#1-380 vol.1
DareDevil#1-115 vol.2

Iron Man #479

Iron Man#1-332 vol.1
Iron Man#1-13 vol.2
Iron Man#1-89 vol.3
Iron Man#1-35 vol.4
Iron Man#1-10 vol.5

Thor #474

Thor#126-502 vol.1 (Journey into Mystery was renamed to Thor after #125)
Thor#1-85 vol.2
Thor#1-12 vol.3

Spectacular Spider-Man #290

SSM#1-263 vol.1
SSM#1-27 vol.2

Ghost Rider #205

GR#1-81 vol.1
GR#1-93 vol.2
GR#1-31 vol.3

Marvel Team Up #186

MTU#1-150 vol.1
MTU#1-11 vol.2
MTU#1-25 vol.3

Silver Surfer #178

SS#1-18 vol.1
SS#1-146 vol.2
SS#1-14 vol.3

She-Hulk #134

SH#1-25 vol.1
SH#1-60 vol.2
SH#1-12 vol.3
SH#1-37 vol.4

Moon Knight #124

SH#1-38 vol.1
SH#1-60 vol.2
SH#1-26 vol.3

Dr. Strange #96

DS#169-182 vol.1 (Strange Tales was renamed Dr. Strange after #168)
DS#1-81 vol.2

I love this thread...and now I bow down to you

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Wow, lookit all them books that'd be hittin' 500 if Marvel hadn't mucked with the numbering. Gonna be awesome when a mainstream monthly title finally hits 1,000. The UK's got us beat out thanks to their weekly books.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

DC's gonna have that honor first over here, of course.

 

[kguillou]

Heh, unless Marvel keeps Amazing Spiderman 3x monthly . He'll probably be the first, but i doubt the 3x monthly's gonna last that much longer.

 

[Havok83]

Avengers #524

Avengers#1-402, 500 to 503 vol.1
Avengers#1-13 vol.2
Avengers#1-85 vol.3
Mighty Avengers #1-21

Wouldnt New Avengers have been included in the count since it was the series that was relaunched out of the conclusion of the original Avengers series?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Heh, unless Marvel keeps Amazing Spiderman 3x monthly . He'll probably be the first, but i doubt the 3x monthly's gonna last that much longer.

I don't think even at 3 times per month ASM could catch up to Detective Comics or Action Comics (can't remember which one's number is higher).

 

[Themanofbat]

I don't think even at 3 times per month ASM could catch up to Detective Comics or Action Comics (can't remember which one's number is higher).

I looked at the math at the begining of last year, and if Action Comics conitnues at 12 issues/year and ASM continues at 36 issues per year, it would currently take about 11 1/2 years for both books to be hitting #1000, and it would be roughly at the same time...



However, I doubt that ASM could keep up that pace for so long, and DC would wisen up early on and double Action Comics for a few months every summer just to maintain that edge...

 

[Themanofbat]

I looked at the math at the begining of last year, and if Action Comics conitnues at 12 issues/year and ASM continues at 36 issues per year, it would currently take about 11 1/2 years for both books to be hitting #1000, and it would be roughly at the same time...



However, I doubt that ASM could keep up that pace for so long, and DC would wisen up early on and double Action Comics for a few months every summer just to maintain that edge...

I just checked, and it would take Action Comics 10 1/2 years and ASM 11 1/2 years.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, that's good. It's only right that Action should hit #1,000 first.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Shouldn't it be right that Detective hits #1000 first, considering it started before?

 

[imdaly]

Nevermind