The Shield

[Herr Logan]

You are taking the show too seriously Mein Friend. It is just a show, I could care less how viewers feel about Vic or what not. I am entertained by these guys and I know they are evil slugs deserving of a beat down. Lem is probably the least evil among them as he has not done the things Shane and Vic have, Lem does not know about killing Terry and those sorts. Still, he is a crooked cop on the take. He is bad. Do I care? nah it is just a TV show.

Dutch strangles a cat and had kiddy porn on the laptop. Why aren't you complaining about him? To me abusing children is the worst thing smeone could do.

Is there anyone on this show who is pure good? Claudette wanted to turn her back on the old pot grower. They all have dirty fingers it seems, to some degree anyway.

I'm not taking the show too seriously. I'm taking it seriously when I see comments from viewers who don't have a clue. Whether or not you care about how viewers feel is irrelevant to everything I said. If I care and you don't, then you have absolutely nothing to say on that topic.

Why wasn't I complaining about Dutch strangling a cat and having kiddy porn on his computer? Well, because noone mentioned Dutch since I subscribed to this thread or made any comments denouncing a character who became a liability to Dutch. It wasn't relevant to the specific topic at hand. Is it clicking now? Dutch strangling that cat horrified me. I mean, I knew he had psychological flaws and vast weaknesses in his work habits (he's brilliant, but his overdependence on psychological profiles is a weakness), but strangling a cat after a scumbag serial rapist tells him a childhood dog-killing story is beyond anything I saw him capable of. I couldn't even believe it when he almost planted a bra clip in that obese killer's house, and was not surprised when he stopped and reversed his decision. Awkward geek or not, he was a likable character who was an example of what a straight detective is like as opposed to Vic & friends. As for the kiddy porn, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but I thought he said he got it from the computer of a suspect and it was part of his investigation. He's not always honest, but the scene played out like a throw-away joke at his expense, so I didn't see it as a solid red flag.

The biggest problem I have with Claudette Wims is not that she wanted to let the old pot grower go. It's that she had every single conviction that the drugged-out public attorney defended overturned. Innocent people do get put on trial, in prison and even put to death, but considering how difficult it is most of the time to get a suspect all the way to trial (especially the amount of evidence required for a self-serving DA to feel that the case is a viable win), most of the people who gets arraigned and convicted are guility of at least of the charges brought against them. If Claudette wanted to overturn convictions of defendants who didn't have a competent laywer, she should hqave reopened the cases and gone over the details for each individual case.

I don't see how the question of "who is pure good" is relevant. I was talking about how people in the real world react to ideas put forth by a fictional product. I care, and you don't. The fact remains that if you don't care, then that only means that you don't have a counter-argument.

 

[oregondude]

I'm not taking the show too seriously. I'm taking it seriously when I see comments from viewers who don't have a clue. Whether or not you care about how viewers feel is irrelevant to everything I said. If I care and you don't, then you have absolutely nothing to say on that topic.

Why wasn't I complaining about Dutch strangling a cat and having kiddy porn on his computer? Well, because noone mentioned Dutch since I subscribed to this thread or made any comments denouncing a character who became a liability to Dutch. It wasn't relevant to the specific topic at hand. Is it clicking now? Dutch strangling that cat horrified me. I mean, I knew he had psychological flaws and vast weaknesses in his work habits (he's brilliant, but his overdependence on psychological profiles is a weakness), but strangling a cat after a scumbag serial rapist tells him a childhood dog-killing story is beyond anything I saw him capable of. I couldn't even believe it when he almost planted a bra clip in that obese killer's house, and was not surprised when he stopped and reversed his decision. Awkward geek or not, he was a likable character who was an example of what a straight detective is like as opposed to Vic & friends. As for the kiddy porn, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but I thought he said he got it from the computer of a suspect and it was part of his investigation. He's not always honest, but the scene played out like a throw-away joke at his expense, so I didn't see it as a solid red flag.

The biggest problem I have with Claudette Wims is not that she wanted to let the old pot grower go. It's that she had every single conviction that the drugged-out public attorney defended overturned. Innocent people do get put on trial, in prison and even put to death, but considering how difficult it is most of the time to get a suspect all the way to trial (especially the amount of evidence required for a self-serving DA to feel that the case is a viable win), most of the people who gets arraigned and convicted are guility of at least of the charges brought against them. If Claudette wanted to overturn convictions of defendants who didn't have a competent laywer, she should hqave reopened the cases and gone over the details for each individual case.

I don't see how the question of "who is pure good" is relevant. I was talking about how people in the real world react to ideas put forth by a fictional product. I care, and you don't. The fact remains that if you don't care, then that only means that you don't have a counter-argument.

Lol. No dude, the point of my posting was that it is a TV show, why let what other viewers think about it or certain characters bother you? Who cares? Eveyone gets out of it something different. You seem to have some "Dutch" in you, your arrogance and self worth. I don't care what other people take out of this "fictional" show as I watch it and am entertained. If others root for the "bad cops" on the show so be it, who cares. I don't. Nothing to argue about. I rooted for the shark in Jaws when I saw it int he theater at the age of 4. Nobody around me could seem to figure that out. I wanted the shark to eat everyone. I remmeber leaving the theater asking my dad why the shark did not just eat everyone and my dad was laughing as everyone was looking at us. Everyone pulls for different characters dude. Don't take it personally or be so judgemental.

 

[That-Guy]

Herr Logan, I would hope that my previous posts in this thread as well as countless others would support that fact that I'm not a "moron..." In regards to my statement that I think Army (or Armie, or however you want to spell his name) is a prick and I hope he gets taken out, it's not because I am under the impression that Vic and the Strike Team are by any means squeaky clean and can do no wrong. They've all done horrible things, but I think what the show does so well is that it shows you just how rough life can be while being a cop and unless you've lived the life. Getting shot at and seeing some of the things they see is bound to have an affect on your psyche and make you question the morality or immorality of your actions. I'm not saying that every cop out there goes through this, but in a place as dangerous as inner-city California, I would say its a safe bet that a fair share of police out there are being pushed to their limits.

I'm not saying that this excuses their behavior, only that it makes it more understandable. Is Vic a hero? Hell no. But I think it's unfair to label him completely as a villain because he has done some heroic or at least good things (the way he helped the woman and her kid in the last episode is a good example of this). Also, you have to take into consideration that the reason some viewers may think of Vic as a "good guy" is because in a world as corrupt and evil as this, there are always worse people out there. Vic may in some sense be a bad guy, but I wouldn't classify him as "evil." Evil characters on the show are people like Antione or that face-down serial killer from the first season. Vic may be a sociopath and very Machiavellian at times, but he does live by his own moral code that often saves lives rather than takes them. So yes, I like Vic and the Strike Team... I'm not saying I agree with what they do, but I can't say 100% that if I was in the exact same situation, I wouldn't do the same thing because I don't know. And as for Army, I just made the note that I want him to die because A. he turned his back on the only people who tired to help him, B. he's a total screw-up, and C. he just gets on my nerves for whatever reason. And that's okay, because its all just fiction. Maybe if these were all real people, my opinions would be different, but its just a very realistic TV show. There's no reason to make it more than it is.

 

[Herr Logan]

Lol. No dude, the point of my posting was that it is a TV show, why let what other viewers think about it or certain characters bother you? Who cares? Eveyone gets out of it something different. You seem to have some "Dutch" in you, your arrogance and self worth. I don't care what other people take out of this "fictional" show as I watch it and am entertained. If others root for the "bad cops" on the show so be it, who cares. I don't. Nothing to argue about. I rooted for the shark in Jaws when I saw it int he theater at the age of 4. Nobody around me could seem to figure that out. I wanted the shark to eat everyone. I remmeber leaving the theater asking my dad why the shark did not just eat everyone and my dad was laughing as everyone was looking at us. Everyone pulls for different characters dude. Don't take it personally or be so judgemental.

I did perhaps take it a bit too seriously. Then again, maybe not. The truth is, we live in a world full of primarily ignorant people who are easily influenced by dangerous ideas. I've looked at the message boards for "The Shield" on the FX site (not recently, but in years past), and there are an astounding number of complete morons there who have utterly twisted ideas on how to treat people in real life. The name of the game is tribalism, and when I see someone make a comment denouncing a person (even fictional) who separates himself from a dangerous and unethical group of people, that strikes a chord that is very relevant to real life. Almost every social problem that humans feel strongly about is due to tribalistic behavior. Currently, we live in an age where a national "us versus them" mentality is practically out of control and the world is suffering for it. That's why I don't let it slide when I see comments like that put forth. If I misread the intent behind that comment, I'll be thrilled to find that out.

As for what you said about there being some "Dutch" in me, this is true. There's an equal amount of "Vic" in me, but with both cases, only some of those traits are present in me. Both characters are very arrogant, and both are skilled enough so that at least some of it is justified.

It may come as a surprise, but hearing that you rooted for the shark at age four doesn't quite evoke the same response in me as what set me off in the first place.

 

[Herr Logan]

Herr Logan, I would hope that my previous posts in this thread as well as countless others would support that fact that I'm not a "moron..." In regards to my statement that I think Army (or Armie, or however you want to spell his name) is a prick and I hope he gets taken out, it's not because I am under the impression that Vic and the Strike Team are by any means squeaky clean and can do no wrong. They've all done horrible things, but I think what the show does so well is that it shows you just how rough life can be while being a cop and unless you've lived the life. Getting shot at and seeing some of the things they see is bound to have an affect on your psyche and make you question the morality or immorality of your actions. I'm not saying that every cop out there goes through this, but in a place as dangerous as inner-city California, I would say its a safe bet that a fair share of police out there are being pushed to their limits.

I'm not saying that this excuses their behavior, only that it makes it more understandable. Is Vic a hero? Hell no. But I think it's unfair to label him completely as a villain because he has done some heroic or at least good things (the way he helped the woman and her kid in the last episode is a good example of this). Also, you have to take into consideration that the reason some viewers may think of Vic as a "good guy" is because in a world as corrupt and evil as this, there are always worse people out there. Vic may in some sense be a bad guy, but I wouldn't classify him as "evil." Evil characters on the show are people like Antione or that face-down serial killer from the first season. Vic may be a sociopath and very Machiavellian at times, but he does live by his own moral code that often saves lives rather than takes them. So yes, I like Vic and the Strike Team... I'm not saying I agree with what they do, but I can't say 100% that if I was in the exact same situation, I wouldn't do the same thing because I don't know. And as for Army, I just made the note that I want him to die because A. he turned his back on the only people who tired to help him, B. he's a total screw-up, and C. he just gets on my nerves for whatever reason. And that's okay, because its all just fiction. Maybe if these were all real people, my opinions would be different, but its just a very realistic TV show. There's no reason to make it more than it is.

I apologize if I misread the situation.

What you just said about Vic supports my comparison between Mackey and Venom. The biggest difference (besides the obvious physical differences) is that Mackey is more sane than Venom, and Venom is a better person than Mackey at heart.

I have all kinds of "understanding" when it comes to Vic and his team using excessive force against absolute scumbags. I have absolutely no understanding when it comes to killing an innocent person (cop or not) to keep yourself free and clear of the law when you're a career criminal. I have no understanding when it comes to protecting drug dealers and gang-bangers for profit. Vigilantism is something I can condone if the vigilante has covered all the angles and made sure no innocent people got hurt (even the Punisher currently measures up to that standard), but mercenary types who hurt innocents and help other people hurt innocents are scum. That doesn't mean they aren't entertaining, interesting and well-written scum. It just means I don't want people to start thinking that's actually an acceptable way to act.

Anyone ever notice that Mackey is often written like a hard boiled detective with corny one-liners? I think that's strange and cool at the same time.

 

[oregondude]

I did perhaps take it a bit too seriously. Then again, maybe not. The truth is, we live in a world full of primarily ignorant people who are easily influenced by dangerous ideas. I've looked at the message boards for "The Shield" on the FX site (not recently, but in years past), and there are an astounding number of complete morons there who have utterly twisted ideas on how to treat people in real life. The name of the game is tribalism, and when I see someone make a comment denouncing a person (even fictional) who separates himself from a dangerous and unethical group of people, that strikes a chord that is very relevant to real life. Almost every social problem that humans feel strongly about is due to tribalistic behavior. Currently, we live in an age where a national "us versus them" mentality is practically out of control and the world is suffering for it. That's why I don't let it slide when I see comments like that put forth. If I misread the intent behind that comment, I'll be thrilled to find that out.

As for what you said about there being some "Dutch" in me, this is true. There's an equal amount of "Vic" in me, but with both cases, only some of those traits are present in me. Both characters are very arrogant, and both are skilled enough so that at least some of it is justified.

It may come as a surprise, but hearing that you rooted for the shark at age four doesn't quite evoke the same response in me as what set me off in the first place.

You have some valid statements gaijin. You are a worthwhile human being. yes it is a shame some ass holes cannot seperate fact from fiction.

 

[Herr Logan]

You have some valid statements gaijin. You are a worthwhile human being. yes it is a shame some ass holes cannot seperate fact from fiction.

That's the first time in a long time I've been told I was a worthwhile human being. Same to you, pal.

 

[hey yo its sean]

I'm surprised no one is talking about the Vic/Corrine/Dutch situation.

 

[Herr Logan]

I'm surprised no one is talking about the Vic/Corrine/Dutch situation.

Is that even an issue anymore? Looks like Corrine might be done with Dutch.

 

[hey yo its sean]

Is that even an issue anymore? Looks like Corrine might be done with Dutch.

Well i know people have been wondering about what would've happened when Vic found out, and now that we actually know, i thought more people would have commented on it. Guess not.

 

[That-Guy]

I thought what Vic did about it was pretty funny. Everybody thought he'd kick the crap out of Dutch or go ballistic on someone else or something, but instead, all he did was make a couple snide remarks and the next thing you know, Dutch dug his own hole.

 

[oregondude]

I thought what Vic did about it was pretty funny. Everybody thought he'd kick the crap out of Dutch or go ballistic on someone else or something, but instead, all he did was make a couple snide remarks and the next thing you know, Dutch dug his own hole.

So who wins in a fist fight,

Dutch or Shane?
Aceveda (sp?) or Vic
Lem or Shane?

Some of these guys have been building up some serious tension between them, we are due for an in house blowout at some point. Who will it be and who will win?

 

[Elijya]

OH SNAP!

 

[Wolfwood]

Holy crap that was awesome, Dutch finally let his claws out.

That preview for the season finale was depressing as hell....I seriousely hope Lem isn't the one that dies, although they just said someone wont return so I guess that could mean Glenn Close will leave. She's done such a great job though, I'd like to see her stick around for awhile.

 

[Elijya]

dude, Glenn Close *****-slapped aceveda

and while I'm thinking about it, isn't Glenn a guy's name?

 

[Pyro Man]

Yeah we already know Rawlings is probably a goner seeing as Glenn Close is leaving. I think somebody else is gonna bite it though maybe even several. Here's who I think the most likely candidates seem to be besides Rawlings:
1) Shane
2) Aceveda
3) Antwon Mitchell (duh)

 

[Herr Logan]

Yeah we already know Rawlings is probably a goner seeing as Glenn Close is leaving. I think somebody else is gonna bite it though maybe even several. Here's who I think the most likely candidates seem to be besides Rawlings:
1) Shane
2) Aceveda
3) Antwon Mitchell (duh)

Rawlings is definitely leaving? Man, that sucks. I really would like it if Glenn Close stayed on as Monica Rawlings. She's excellent on the show. I thought it was great to have a truly idealistic and strong police captain overseeing such a corrupt and troubled precinct. Vic Mackey truly respects her, I think, so he might even almost feel guilty once in a while when he's pulling something behind her back (which he always is), whereas he never thought it was worth feeling guilty for lying to Aceveda.


Shane's a completely dip$hit, but now that he and Vic are cool with each other again, I really like their little moments together, especially in the beginning of last week's episode ("Eatin' ain't cheatin'," what the safe-cracker guy said about pathological liars and narcissists having little problem passing a lie detector test and Vic commenting that that takes care of Shane, but what abour Armie). I hope he doesn't leave. Walton Goggins does a good job.
I could definitely live with Aceveda leaving, since his character is sleazy as all get-out and it really does disturb me to be reminded of what happened to him in the previous season. I think he's well played, but now that he isn't the captain of the barn, maybe he should move on. I do like how Antwon Mitchell seemingly automatically agrees to run Aceveda's little "errand." Aceveda definitely speaks his language, two-faced sleaze that he is.

 

[That-Guy]

Yeah, I can’t wait for next week. My guess is Captain Rawlings will get killed next week or possibly leave the Barn because her seizure policy will get flushed down the toilet. I really hope she stays on though, because I think she’s a GREAT character (which is nothing unusual on this show, I might add). I’m pretty sure Antoine will get killed, although part of me hopes he doesn’t because he’s sort of like the “Lex Luthor” of the show in that he’s the bad guy everyone wants to take down yet they can never seem to get him.

If I had to pick one character I’d LIKE to see get killed, again I have to say Armie, ‘cause he’s a disloyal moron. It’s true, in many ways, the Strike Team isn’t any “better” than he is, but hell, they get things done, and it’s fun seeing them kick ass together and the only person I wouldn’t mind seeing drift a rift between them again is Tavon (when is he coming back by the way?)

I guess if I had to pick one character from the original cast to leave the show, I’d have to say Acevada. He’s just become such a despicable character this season in SO many ways that if he left, it would almost be a relief. I’m not knocking the writing or the acting there… both are top notch, it’s just that he’s become such a loathsome bastard lately that if he got killed or thrown in jail, I wouldn’t mind.

As for this week’s episode was great, as always. I laughed my ass off when that Russian guy blew himself up. Also, there was some terrific acting in this episode… Dutch and Rawlings in particular. It was great to see Dutch beat the sh** out of that ass hole bald cop. And I really loved that part at the end where Vic said to Acevada, “You’re not a cop, and you never were.” Brilliant. Damn it, I wish the seasons of this show were longer!

 

[Lord Nemesis]

This episode was funny.

 

[oregondude]

Yeah, I can’t wait for next week. My guess is Captain Rawlings will get killed next week or possibly leave the Barn because her seizure policy will get flushed down the toilet. I really hope she stays on though, because I think she’s a GREAT character (which is nothing unusual on this show, I might add). I’m pretty sure Antoine will get killed, although part of me hopes he doesn’t because he’s sort of like the “Lex Luthor” of the show in that he’s the bad guy everyone wants to take down yet they can never seem to get him.

If I had to pick one character I’d LIKE to see get killed, again I have to say Armie, ‘cause he’s a disloyal moron. It’s true, in many ways, the Strike Team isn’t any “better” than he is, but hell, they get things done, and it’s fun seeing them kick ass together and the only person I wouldn’t mind seeing drift a rift between them again is Tavon (when is he coming back by the way?)

I guess if I had to pick one character from the original cast to leave the show, I’d have to say Acevada. He’s just become such a despicable character this season in SO many ways that if he left, it would almost be a relief. I’m not knocking the writing or the acting there… both are top notch, it’s just that he’s become such a loathsome bastard lately that if he got killed or thrown in jail, I wouldn’t mind.

As for this week’s episode was great, as always. I laughed my ass off when that Russian guy blew himself up. Also, there was some terrific acting in this episode… Dutch and Rawlings in particular. It was great to see Dutch beat the sh** out of that ass hole bald cop. And I really loved that part at the end where Vic said to Acevada, “You’re not a cop, and you never were.” Brilliant. Damn it, I wish the seasons of this show were longer!

13 Episodes is not nearly enough. I wonder if we started a petition to extend the seasons to 20 episodes, and got enough sig's of FX would do it?

Aceveda is misunderstood it seems. This is a guy who in the first few seasons was strictly black and white in his views on justice, right and wrong. He had some crap happen to him which made him seek revenge, get it now he struggles with his own inner demons and said "black and white" views. You see him doing things that he despises, the hooker and struggling with the rapist guy. You can plainly tell he is not happy with himself at all.

I for one want to see him stick around and see how his character come through these "trials" he is encountering.

You guys talk about him being a sleaze, well there is no bigger sleaze on the show than Vic followed very closely by Shane. Think about it, Vic and Shane killed another cop to protect themselves. Calling for Aceveda's head based on his downward spiral just seems wrong when he is very much higher on the morailty scale than Vic.

I think it is going to be Danni or her partner, I forget the dudes name. They have had minor roles this season, I bet one of them gets written out. Since Danni took a slug last night, I bet it is her partner.

personally I want the balding vulture looking detective to go by by, he bugs me. Billings, that his name?

 

[That-Guy]

Yeah, Billings is his name. I wouldn't mind if he got wasted.

As for Acevada... yeah, okay I can see where you're coming from there; in many ways, Vic is the biggest sleazeball on the show, but that doesn't mean that Acevada is by any means innocent either. I think the only reason you may have more sympathy for his is because we've actually been able to witness his decline, where as with Vic, the story began when his descent was already in motion.

Nevertheless, Acevada wasn't so squaky clean at the beginning of the show. He pulled some sleazy deals too in an effort to further his political career. Okay, none of the things he did were as bad as killing someone, but they shouldn't be overlooked either.

 

[oregondude]

Yeah, Billings is his name. I wouldn't mind if he got wasted.

As for Acevada... yeah, okay I can see where you're coming from there; in many ways, Vic is the biggest sleazeball on the show, but that doesn't mean that Acevada is by any means innocent either. I think the only reason you may have more sympathy for his is because we've actually been able to witness his decline, where as with Vic, the story began when his descent was already in motion.

Nevertheless, Acevada wasn't so squaky clean at the beginning of the show. He pulled some sleazy deals too in an effort to further his political career. Okay, none of the things he did were as bad as killing someone, but they shouldn't be overlooked either.

Agreed. Really nobody on this show is free from some sleaze.

Man did that rapists wife go off the deep end or what? Think she was really ebing harrassed or was she makin things much worse than they were to get attention? Dutch might just turn out to be the pimp of the Barn if his luck keeps going. Hungry like the wolf right?

 

[hey yo its sean]

Next Tuesday will be the best day evar... First The Shield's season finale, and an hour later, Batman Begins.. w00t!

 

[oregondude]

Next Tuesday will be the best day evar... First The Shield's season finale, and an hour later, Batman Begins.. w00t!

Yeah well knock on wood, batman begins does not suck!!!

 

[Wolfwood]

I still think it's Lem, looking at the preview, its looks like he gets surrounded by himself. Although, The Shield's previews have been missleading before. I'd be sad as hell if he died.