The Simpsons to drop Apu from the show

Apu is a stereotype. But he's always portrayed positively. He's a hard working immigrant who runs his own business and is there for his family and friends.

The episodes of him gaining his citizenship and the arranged marriage were really well done.

He's been on the show for 20 years... And now people complain? To me it seems this "woke" thing is starting to go way over the top. People seem to define themselves by complaining about things.
 
I find Apu pretty cool actually and again I have been subject to loads of racism and bigotry with folks imitating the indian accent to me but that’s really not on the simpsons per say. These same racist pricks will stereotypically imitate how mexicans sound or other asians sound but that’s the ignorance and stupidity of these bigots in general. I don’t blame the simpsons for their crap behavior.

In general I think there is a need for more positive ‘normal’ portrayals of south asians in American entertainment without too much of an emphasis on ethnicity or culture. Within British tv, there are loads of characters who are played by south asian actors and they are portrayed like normal working folks for the most part without much of an emphasis on race, culture or playing up stereotypes. This hasn’t happened yet in American entertainment but these things take time so I am not too fussed. As an aside, I actually liked the depiction of Agent Nadeem and his family in Daredevil. That was a great role and opportunity to showcase some south asian talent.
Many of the people mad about Apu seem to have been bullied by non-Indian kids who imitated his accent and did his catchphrase at them. Seems less about the character and more about bigoted jerk kids who think they are funny mocking people with Indian ancestry.

Ignorant racists are always going to find something to mock others with. If it wasn't the Apu character than it would be something else.

The actor who played Agent Nadeem on Daredevil was British South Asian. His American accent was really good.

Dev Patel and Raza Jaffrey are also British South Asian actors that are on American TV/Films.
 
If anyone wants a good rebuttal to the documentary, check out Max G, aka hordiggitydemon, on YouTube. He did a Brain Dump video on why he believes Apu is a character worthy of staying. Can’t link due to language though.
 
Well, not like he's the only one pushing back on it, so... *Shrugs*

I'm actually fine with ditching Apu, personally. You sure as hell better be on board with canning every non-white, non-straight, non-Presbyterian (Baptist? whatever denomination the Simpsons themselves attend), non-mentally-sound, non-law-abiding, non-whateverthehell character from the show too though, for intellectual consistency's sake. Because stereotypes and potential for mean/cruel/ignorant people using said traits as insults.

Meaning, yeah, cancel the ****ing thing. If this is the threshold, Apu's off limits, there's no show unless hypocrisy's your out.
 
And would you complain about Smithers as some unnacceptable affront to the gay community, due to being voiced by a straight guy and written by straight people? :oldrazz:

Nah. You're not a useless human being.

You're 100% wrong. I really am a useless human being. My fridge is fully stocked, but I've been going to the grocery store every day after work to check on whether they've restocked the strawberry-banana wafers I wanted to try. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
So... Everyone's outrage *****, on all sides just subsided over this or at least what they imagined "this" event supposedly represented.


Here's what's actually known:

Hari Kondabolu released a small documentary called The Problem with Apu in 2017 expressing the affect Apu has had as a very visible Indian character on a show that's lasted over 3 decades on the wider culture but also on Indian-Americans like Kondabolu himself.

A producer of the Netflix Castlevania series, Adi Shankar, created a spec script contest which had ZERO connections to The Simpsons to challenge writers to see if they could reimagine Apu’s character. He claimed to then take the winning submission from this contest to the Simpson's team. He then started saying “I got some disheartening news back, that I’ve verified from multiple sources now: They’re going to drop the Apu character altogether,” said Shankar in an interview with IndieWire. “They aren’t going to make a big deal out of it, or anything like that, but they’ll drop him altogether just to avoid the controversy.”

Al Jean of the Simpsons eleven days ago then stated the obvious in a Tweet:

“Adi Shankar is not a producer on the Simpsons. I wish him the very best but he does not speak for our show. "


So... There's honestly no "there, there" hmmm? For anyone on any side of this "controversy".

It seems that if you had issues with Apu, or get where people like Kondabolu are coming from... Well it seems that Apu on an official level wasn't going to be "Maude Flandered".

If you were "outraged" by the "outrage"... Well, it seems that again... Apu wasn't likely being sent to the Phantom Zone.


I can see most sides to this represented by this tiny sample size of posters but I can't help but notice the irony of the usual suspects that always go into righteous indignation territory... BECAUSE they are offended by others, usually a not so powerful group (this isn't code for disenfranchisement BTW, I mean in terms of impactful numbers, though it's interesting the reactions you do get from some when certain groups simply use their freedom of speech to say anything on any subject... But I digress...) voicing some kind of issue or offense.


I think this image puts it well...

tumblr_pdtkc3h71S1qe3o5mo1_1280.jpg



So... Lots just turn out to want to be what they caricature others as. How about this as a possibility... There's no theoretically morally and ethically perfect position on... Anything? Why is that not possible? I wouldn't want Apu gone either but that doesn't mean I don't at least try to really and truly grapple with the position of those that find him or characters like him, problematic for the affect on the wider culture the character has had. I'm also not for creators to get "attacked by the mob" (I mean... As much as these days that I can keep a straight face when people warn us about "free speech" being ended by the "mobs" out there ready to "lynch" the "politically incorrect". Tell actual victims of mob violence in the world, say in modern India, if the affluent creators of a TV show and the show itself being criticized is at all like being dragged from your car and beaten to death because of rumors spread via online that you must be a pedophile because you are from "outside" the provence... Cuz it's just not no matter what scary language one inserts into these stories. A person getting "lynched" online is generally, no actually in danger of having fellow citizens break into their home, abduct them and then in a public setting have a death sentence carried out upon them in brutal act of extrajudicial "justice". Can the online world have some negative affects on a person, fairly or unfairly? Of course, but can we admit that the way we use these terms, like lynch mob, is just adding charged words to a situation that in no way resembles the history of lynching in the U.S.) for creating that which they freely choose to... But that is almost never what the dynamic is with these cases. The government isn't actually shutting down the Simpsons if Apu isn't axed, and these entertainments are usually the product of large and powerful corporate entities who, sorry to burst any bubbles, actually aren't as a rule, fighters of some kind of pure free speech ideology. These are businesses that operate in the field that is not about "fairness" to any side of this story. The corporations are when it comes to these projects actually ALWAYS taking the audience into account in some fashion as they did long before the term SJW was a glimmer in the vocabulary of your average Young College Republican. In other words, if the owners of the Simpsons made a decision either way, it's THEM making the decision. Maybe that decision is in fact informed by those complaining... Or maybe that decision is made by listening to the Apu defenders out there. In any case... The government isn't making them do anything, this would be as it's always been, simply an illustration of the back and forth relationship with the producers of media (larger and small media companies and the creatives they hire to make these shows) and the consumers of media (the audience, duh...) and ask any writer in Hollywood, this is eternal and it's something anyone over the age of 24 in the business likely has always understood.


My question is though... Look at the lifespan of this "outrage". It's a bit of a perfect storm being it has a pop culture staple of close to 40 years at its center. Some of ya'll took time out to take this story serious enough to continue coming back here for days, even though as noted, there's not really any new information of substance that's come to light. The truth is nothing much has changed since the documentary came out.. But the last few days has seen the EMOTION of this story explode all over. As can be easily ascertained by going back to page one of this thread, this got people's "ire" roused, sure it's the 1,000th thing that's gotten us all angry or "frustrated" that vectored into the body politic via social media, but that intense reaction is one that revolves around anger at a group that is voicing it's opinion on something that engenders a counter reaction which when boiled down to it is often not of import or impact upon the latter group but then the initial "outrage" by the former group while perhaps well intentioned, isn't often (not always, true) an issue that is as concretely impactful to others as it is to them.

But the argument was had anyway, wasn't it? Even though as of this time, nothing has actually happened and likely isn't going to. If anything the more likely outcome we all know is going to happen is that the Simpsons will get canceled sooner than later and Apu will probably appear in some capacity from now until that finale is produced and I have no doubt Apu would appear in the last episode of the Simpsons. No what I also don't doubt... Al Jean, Hank Azaria and Adi Shankar probably are sleeping soundly tonight and would probably have a more honest, clearer, and less emotionally charged conversation about this than what has actually happened since the issue was thrust back into the spotlight online. They'll be fine... But how are we as a group, the daily denizens of online world? This was just another squall in the grand culture war storm. What did any of us get out of this conversation? Read through from the first page of this thread and it's easy to come to the conclusion of... Not much.

What I would at least like is that we are honest with each other about what these fights are really about. Given that so far we've learned about no changes being made... It's clear to my mind that this is tangentially at best about most of the things brought up broadly on the web or specifically here on the Hype in regards to this story.
 
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I can only speak for myself, but my issue is with creators being pressured into changing things over the misguided notion that what they are doing is harmful or that it's no longer socially acceptable as determined by a minority of people. When boundaries are place upon the arts creativity suffers. The debate about Apu is really not even about Apu, it's about the fact the demographics in many Western cultures have changed from where they were decades ago, the problem being the biggest intellectual properties are from that era, Star Wars, Marvel, DC, Indiana Jones, The Simpsons, Jurassic Park, Disney animation, James Bond, Transformers etc, all of them created at time when the audiences were different. The issue if we haven't built much to add to that list that actually does reflect todays audiences better. I can only think of one franchise in the last 20 years that has, and it's the Fast and Furious series, and guess what? No one complains about it. You never hear any debate directed towards F&F. Why? Because it's its own mythology, with its own characters, with its own history, with its own world. Why do we see backlash directed at those who want to change existing mythologies? Because people like their existing mythologies. It's that simple.

There's an emotional attachment people can develop towards stories and characters and the moment you start screwing with that is the moment you start to anger people and cause division. You need only look at Star Wars to see how angry people were at how Luke was treated in The Last Jedi. This is what the issue with Apu and other instances like this boil down to. There needs to be some level of respect given to existing mythologies, to the creators of the material, as well as the people who are invested in said material. If their time is up the market will ultimately determine that, but we can't just destroy things because it isn't what you personally like. It's perfect fine if it's not your thing, but you have the option to not watch it. Better still, make your argument about generating new characters and mythologies, one that does reflect today's society better, you will get far more people on your side with that than you will for changing characters personalities, genders, ethnicities, sexualities, whatever, because it means you're not destroying something people already love. The argument needs to evolve from 'we need to change this' to 'we need to build from this'. That is how you end the culture wars.
 
They were not going to be able to remove him from the reruns anyway. The most that could happen is Apu moves away
 
Wow they actually pulled that?
 
I get why Hank Azaria doesn’t want to deal with this anymore.

I think they might as well retire the character at this point.

Then again, the show is 31 years old. I haven’t consistently watched it since Season 11 so I have my copies of the classics and they’re not going anywhere.
 
The Simpsons producers said in a statement that “We respect Hank’s journey in regard to Apu. We have granted his wish to no longer voice the character.” However, they refused to rule out another actor voicing the character or continuing with Apu on the show.Apu is beloved worldwide. We love him too. Stay tuned.”

‘The Simpsons’ Voice Actor Hank Azaria Reveals His Journey Away From The ‘Apu’ Character

If they plan to continue the character instead of retiring or killing him off Chef-style then I suppose you could get an actual Indian actor for the role, and re-characterize him to make him less stereotypical.
 
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Agreed, otherwise they would be showing no one else could voice Apu when they could be providing a job to an Indian actor while working on the character's portrayal.
 
It’s going to be a fine line with Apu. You still have to be stereotypical because that’s sort of the point with all these characters. But you can do it in such a way that’s a little more modern. We should still be able to laugh at Apu like any of the other characters of Springfield.

But at this point, 90s Simpsons are all that really matter anyway.
 
Raj from Big Bang Theory is pretty much still intact. If it's just the accent that's not really an issue I'd think.
 

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