World "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers) - Part 1

[Spider-Aziz]

FIRST STEPS

I don't know how Eddie hides himself like that.

Spidey should be well aware that fists don't work against mister Sandman.

Most of the damage to the oil tanker is Spider-Man's fault. I know damage happens in super powered battles, but when the damage endangering people is mostly the fault of the hero I get annoyed. Guess I should thank Homecoming for making me pay attention to this stuff.

How did Eddie follow Spidey? Or make his own web and have enough strength to swing the distance?

I love the party footage, the action, and the last appearance of Sandman. But I guess this is my current least favorite episode.

Sally is as entertaining as always.




GROWING PAINS

Stage auditions to announce the title of each chapter is done nicely.

How is the suit designed for Colonel Jameson fits him the minute he hulked out? Including the gravity shoes.

Spores on the symbiote infected Colonel Jameson on his lonesome cause... they needed to adapt that part I guess....?

How did Eddie know where John lives?

"I'm so stuffing Parker in a locker" Rhymes.

"Peter Parker is Spider-Man". An intense conclusion for a good episode.



IDENTITY CRISIS

I still don't like how Robbie is made in this show when it comes to his relationship with Spider-Man.

The way they keep showing Hobie Brown doesn't have an appointed voice actor is amusing.

I love the interview segments, but why go to prison?

This show has the best Spider-Man vs Venom battles, bar none.

Are people dense here? Too much care of who Spider-Man really is, now one is focusing on the damage caused by Venom, or the people endangered by him.

Venom: "You never could score a basket to save your life"
Spider-Man: "Just not used to being the ball" Not before 2012 anyway.
Lame joke, I'm not taking it back.

I never could get behind the gene cleanser splitting between the symbiote and the host.

George Stacy knows who Spider-Man is alright, at least he started suspecting with this episode.

Flash and Sally are awesome, more credit goes to Flash.
This is the best Flash in animation. We have good takes on the character in Disney shows and the 90s cartoon, but this one is the best.





Ranking the episodes so far:

1. Interventions
2. Shear Strength
3. Bluprints
4. Catalysts
5. Reinforcement
6. Identity Crisis
7. Nature vs Nurture
8. Persona
9. The Uncertainty Principle
10. Competitions
11. Group Therapy
12. Natural Selection
13. Survival of the Fittest
14. Market Forces
15. The Invisible Hand
16. Destructive Testing
17. Reaction
18. Interactions
19. Growing Pains
20. First Steps

Up to this point I think season 1 is better, I prefer season 2 for the most part, but season 1 is tighter and more neatly packed.

 

[Herofan]

Undoubtedly the best Venom in animation, and the best he's been as a villain.

I think he was better done in TAS (admittedly pretty inconsistent between season 1 and 3 but both versions were good).

What is Spectacular Eddie's motivation for hating Peter and Spider-Man? That, aside from general disloyalty, he cost him his job, I just thought that felt more bitter and poignant in TAS, including that it was not just his job but also his reputation (even though of course Eddie was actually the one who committed fraud but understandable that he would try to not admit that).

Also I haven't seen season 2 but why would Eddie want to become Venom again, why would he not feel regret or at least ambivalent that the symbiote made him evil? What with not just attacking Spider-Man but also trying to hurt May and also Gwen?

 

[Jordacar]

I think Eddie/Venom had better characterization on Spectacular, but TAS is still my favorite telling of the black costume saga.

 

[zeptron]

The explanation was that in Spectacular, Eddie nursed extreme jealousy for how Peter seemed to get all the lucky breaks in life and he doesn't.

What I liked about Spectacular's Venom is that the creators used the story from the Ultimate comics with Peter and Eddie being childhood friends. Because once Eddie became Venom, it made things more personal for Peter as his childhood friend was now one of his worst enemies. While Eddie in Spectacular was friends with Peter and generally a good guy, who did have morals, he also did have some mental issues that started to slip out as the first season went on. His story there kinda rivaled Two-Face's in Batman TAS.

Another thing is, Spectacular Venom actually used the info he had on Peter rather than just chasing him around and making vague threats and not following up on them. The only thing I didn't really care for much was his voice.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

What is Spectacular Eddie's motivation for hating Peter and Spider-Man? That, aside from general disloyalty, he cost him his job,

Strangely, I'll quote Harry Osborn from the Amazing Spider-Man 2 for this; "You don't give people hope, you take it away."
And vengeance is blind, so he did not think "Boy, symbiote is alive, I'm back in business", instead he was like "This is communicating to me" (so there is a little curiosity) and then the bond happened.

I just thought that felt more bitter and poignant in TAS, including that it was not just his job but also his reputation (even though of course Eddie was actually the one who committed fraud but understandable that he would try to not admit that).

That is a truly great take on the character, and the first to actually show he can be better than his comic book origin.

Also I haven't seen season 2 but why would Eddie want to become Venom again, why would he not feel regret or at least ambivalent that the symbiote made him evil? What with not just attacking Spider-Man but also trying to hurt May and also Gwen?

It's his other, it completes him.
I think leading him to May was just the trap, he didn't want to hurt her. With Gwen his mind slowly changed to that point. He became ruthless in season 2 and really addicted to the suit after bonding again.

 

[Mistah K88]

Well, with Eddie the key was when he screamed out

"We're NOT BROTHERS! Our parents may have died together, but you had your precious aunt and uncle!"

That was Eddie's true feelings about Peter slipping out via the Symbiote's influence. Eddie is like that close friend who secretly hates you.

Also, there was his final appearance where he mentions that the symbiote only loves Eddie for the hate...So I took that as Eddie not REALLY hating Peter, but going out of his way to do so. Kind of like how someone who is a racist will see all sorts of things that disproves stereotypes, but will go out of their way to believe that said stereotypes are still completely factual.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

ACCOMPLICES

Lots of smoke compressed in that small canister.

I'm still not fond of the idea of Silver Sable being the daughter and accomplice of Silvermane.

George Stacy definitely knows, he did not mask it with the line "Wisecracks don't save lives Pete, as I'm sure you may know"

This is the first time after 'the Invisible Hand' to give us a valued role for Frederick Foswell. Heh, the Big Man of the classic comics investigating the Big Man of this world.

Too bad we're denied knowing more about Roderick Kingsley in this world, I really want to see where they wanted to go with him.

I'm sure Silver Sable doesn't have super powers. Spider-Man is a glorified punching bag in this episode.

Rhino & Spidey is a more entertaining partnership than the one from 'the Uncertainty Principle'.

How come the sleeping gas that made Rhino sleep had no effect on cops earlier? I assume it's the same type of gas at least.

I wonder if there were any plans for Peter to open up to Captain Stacy. At least I hope nothing in that plan involved Chameleon.


Great episode, but has its moments of not being the best




PROBABLE CAUSE

Spider-Man is a glorified punching bag a second episode in a row. He wasn't this much of a punching bag for Venom, someone who obviously has more strength than he does.

I'm fond of every other moment of this episode, from Flash & Harry downtime, Sally being her usual self and then showing she has a heart, the Enforcers being more professional than vengeful.




GANGLAND

Vulture turned from blaming Octavius to being his right hand man.

I'll Miguel Ferrer.

Pete is a jerk to Liz, and Gwen is fine with it. I agree with Mark on not wanting Peter to see his sister in this episode.

Poor Jonah. His wife is voiced by that dynamite gal from Wreck-It Ralph.

Spider-Man: "Please tell me the fat lady is not singing". What's the significance of the fat lady song?

After two episodes in a row of being basically a glorified punching back, it's nice to see Spider-Man taking down three foes in one episode.

Man, the musical number used add some really fine touches.

is as great as always.






Ranking the episodes so far:

1. Interventions
2. Shear Strength
3. Gangland
4. Bluprints
5. Catalysts
6. Reinforcement
7. Identity Crisis
8. Nature vs Nurture
9. Probable Cause
10. Persona
11. The Uncertainty Principle
12. Competition
13. Group Therapy
14. Accomplices
15. Natural Selection
16. Survival of the Fittest
17. Market Forces
18. The Invisible Hand
19. Destructive Testing
20. Reaction
21. Interactions
22. Growing Pains
23. First Steps

I still think season 1 is better, I prefer season 2 for the most part, when Spidey is not a glorified punching bag for his foes.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Hey Aziz. The 'fat lady' song is a reference to an expression that says "it ain't over til the fat lady sings." I believe it was first coined in the US during a sports game. The meaning of the phrase is basically don't assume the outcome of something until it's actually over. And saying 'fat lady sings' is a reference to the opera where typically the women are fat. And singing the final part of the opera.

Also, in first steps, I disagree that the boat sinking was Spider-Man's fault. It was Sandman's.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Hey Aziz. The 'fat lady' song is a reference to an expression that says "it ain't over til the fat lady sings." I believe it was first coined in the US during a sports game. The meaning of the phrase is basically don't assume the outcome of something until it's actually over. And saying 'fat lady sings' is a reference to the opera where typically the women are fat. And singing the final part of the opera.

Fascinating, I hope to remember this.
Thanks buddy.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Fascinating, I hope to remember this.
Thanks buddy.

As always, you're welcome bud

Btw, I'm enjoying your episode reviews.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Btw, I'm enjoying your episode reviews.

I'm honored.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This is it, the final arc, the end that came too soon for a great show, but we can at least take solace that it was a great way to end the show.



SUBTEXT

Admittedly, the switch from present to flashback is not my ideal way for storytelling. At least it's not poorly done.

Harry talking about addiction is a real neat touch to the story

Miles Warren is an ideal mad scientist, he does a good job with his homework.

How did Spider-Man's reflection appear on the goggle of Green Goblin? He was too far in the shadow of the shades the webhead was perched on.


Terrifying episode, and quite the tear jerker. Just that one mistake holds it back from being a perfect episode.




OPENING NIGHT

Now this is one of my favorites, and the source of an avatar request I'm very pleased to have worked on, so thanks for the pleasant opportunity UltimateWebhead.

Silhouette build up in the spoiler scene is awesome.

I wonder how George Stacy really feels about seeing one of his students being there, and I know he knows. I know I said that a lot.

The title represents the opening of the school stage play, but it works fine for the opening of the Vault albeit being daytime.

Selina Drew? Nice combination of the first name of Catwoman and the surname of the first Spider-Woman for Black Cat to sneak in.

Liz Allan in this show can teach Kirsten's MJ a lesson or two about being patient, mainly in Spider-Man 2 and her talk about "An empty seat".

Rhyming Goblin is some of the most jolly entertainment. I did not know what is a hearse before this show.

As much as I love the Amazing Spider-Man 196-200, I prefer the burglar regretting killing a man as done here.

Funny, dramatic, action packed, tense... THIS ONE HAS IT ALL.
Remember these sweet taglines on the covers of 60s Spidey comics? They sure do apply to this wonderful episode.




FINAL CURTAIN

Lovely mystery with the Goblin, lovely tense material, strong action... greatness all around.

I think I'll change my stance now about favorite arc and favorite villain for the show, I'll go with Green Goblin as the best all the way.







Ranking the episodes so far:

1. Interventions
2. Opening Night
3. Shear Strength
4. Gangland
5. Bluprints
6. Catalysts
7. Final Curtain
8. Reinforcement
9. Identity Crisis
10. Nature vs Nurture
11. Subtext
12. Probable Cause
13. Persona
14. The Uncertainty Principle
15. Competition
16. Group Therapy
17. Accomplices
18. Natural Selection
19. Survival of the Fittest
20. Market Forces
21. The Invisible Hand
22. Destructive Testing
23. Reaction
24. Interactions
25. Growing Pains
26. First Steps

Here ends my Spectacular Spidey-Thon, and with it I can honestly say that this is almost an ideal show. I mean the best way to gauge a show or a movie for being great is to watch it with a more critical view, and wait a good anniversary for it like I waited for the 10th glorious anniversary for such a glorious show.

No thug knocking Spidey unconscious with the butt of his gun, no dimension hopping, no time travel, no battle against otherworldly threats (sans the symbiote, cause that's one of his best suits), no shift in the size, no nonsensical storytelling, no strange way for Spidey to travel to Egypt or South America in an unexplained manner to fight giant mummies (this I took from the 70s Spider-Woman cartoon), no weird or awkward background for the spider-sense, Hammerhead doesn't sound like a 90s Disney Saturday morning cartoon character, no one saying stuff like "Spider-Man needed to do things that way or that way", no thugs telling each other "Spider-Man is too much of a rookie he doesn't know how to fully use his powers", no big continuity errors, no fourth wall breaking that comes especially breaking neatly tense moments, no "I need my team to do my job", and especially no Madamme Web.
And a good role for the not neglected team of fully realized supporting cast members, particularly the now often marginalized cast of the Daily Bugle.

None of the nonsense in all the other Spider-Man shows, that is.

One thing this show is underwhelming in is its take on Joe Robertson.

 

[Mistah K88]

I'd say Robbie was a little underutilized, which I would honestly say that a lot of the Bugle staff was aside from Jonah. However I believe that this would have been remedied had the show gotten more seasons. We all know that Ned and Betty would have been expanded upon due to the circumstances of Hobgoblin being confirmed in Season 3. It was stated that Tombstone's unique relationship with Robbie would also have shown up, which is believable now that L. Thompson Lincoln is at a different place in life after being knocked from his perch.

Also with his son Randy, he would have graduated high school and left to Empire State University in Season 3. Which would have put him in the same circles as Eddie's roommate Josh. So I could see an adaption of "Crisis on Campus" down the line, provided the series made it to the college DTVs.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I wonder how that story before the Tablet of Time could have been like for this show.

Given how Robbie and Lonnie communicate no longer in comics, I'd be interested in seeing how they'd go that route for this show as well.

 

[Mistah K88]

You know, because this series was “restricted” to Spider-Man’s corner of the Marvel universe it was always fun to see characters that we probably would not have seen otherwise, plus the love for the older stories definitely made it fun seeing who would have popped up. Would we have seen someone like Molten Man otherwise? Possibly, but I do think being restricted to Spider-Man’s corner definitely helped things.

We KNOW the Gang War would have continued on, possibly with Hammerhead becoming his own boss. We can also assume that Hobgoblin would have been involved as Kingsley was involved a bit at the genesis of the Gang War, as well as a Goblin having an involvement of that same arc. With Greg’s love of classic stories and the fact that they would have been “restricted” to Spidey’s corner only I’m definitely curious to see what Crime bosses in Spidey’s history we could possibly have seen had the show gone forward. Due to the plans with John Jameson and Kraven being connected, I’m inclined to believe that there is a possibility that the Lobo Brothers could have been used, they could do what they did with Silvermane and connect the Lobo Brothers to a Stan Lee era mob boss based on their name/theme (Francisco “Lucky” Lobo [who’s gang Green Goblin tried to usurp in the comics]). Greg said he had plenty of crime bosses to use, since he couldn’t use Kingpin (which is true), so sticking to Spider-Man’s specific lane I’m curious to learn if he had any in mind. I still to this day wonder if they would have used someone like Crime Master, Lucky Lobo, the Rose (obviously they couldn’t use Richard Fisk, but they probably could use the identity) and the like… Especially since I think the only mob related villains they’ve used in other media are Kingpin, Mr. Negative, and Hammerhead… For all we know Belladonna could have been given something to do outside of trying to murder Kingsley and become a player in the gangs of New York herself haha…

However something that we haven’t really discussed too much is the revelation of Spider-Man’s identity due to Venom blabbing it to the Daily Bugle and possibly other news outlets in order to disrupt Peter’s life. Just like every major arc in the series, nothing is wrapped up with a tidy bow at the end. While Peter was “cleared” of being Spidey, we all know that Captain Stacy knows Peter is Spidey due to Venom’s snitching, with George Stacy pretty much giving Spider-Man and Peter subliminal messages when around him. In addition to this, one of the interviews that do make you think is Curt and Martha Connors, who we can guess seem to believe that Spider-Man and Peter are one in the same based on their pondering after being asked the question. They know Peter was bitten by one of their genetically modified spiders, and probably put things together based on that with the addition to some of Peter’s other dealings. I’m curious to know if Spider-Man’s “identity crisis” would have reared its ugly head again if we were to see the Connors again.

Even though the show is dead in the water and doesn’t seem to be ever coming back, it still is kind of fun to reminisce and speculate on how things could have gone. I mean all we KNOW for sure is that Hobgoblin and Scorpion would have shown up. However then we have things like Morris Bench and Cletus Kassidy having introductions in season 2, as know that even minor plot points tended to spill into future seasons.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

^Great post there.

One of the things I love and haven't mentioned here is that they mostly stuck to the Stan Lee characterization of Spider-Man refusing to unmask himself, instead he'd pull a lot of effort to throw suspicion off of himself.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

^Great post there.

One of the things I love and haven't mentioned here is that they mostly stuck to the Stan Lee characterization of Spider-Man refusing to unmask himself, instead he'd pull a lot of effort to throw suspicion off of himself.

I agree. I'd rather have a Spider-Man that diligently protects his identity.

As for Mistah K's post, if the identity crisis ever reared its ugly head, imo, if the Connors were involved in it somehow, I believe they'd protect Peter's secret.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'll say that after listening to Greg explain his Venom, I think conceptually it's the best version of him. It kinda fixes all my problems with Venom and makes him feel like a "third archenemy".

I mean, traditional Venom can't really feel like an "archenemy" because he was never conceptualized like that. He was an 80s slasher villain, kinda like Alien. He's cool in ASM #300 but there's not in there you can reuse and make appealing. There's some responsibility themes the 90s show added to him but it still wasn't enough IMO.

Anyhow, Greg fixed this by turning him in a more psychological villain. Eddie could have used more development, but I would argue the symbiote and Peter's conflict with it is the most fleshed-out it's ever been. On my first viewing I didn't like how the symbiote didn't make Peter violent like in the 90s show, but I think getting him to sell out for money might be darker since not every villain can push him to that point. That and the idea of it feeding on "negative emotions" is a good metaphor for substance abuse without dropping the horror theme.

Now that I think about it, the symbiote in this could also be a metaphor for narcissists. I mean, attaching themselves to lonely people and isolating them more is what narcissists do. The symbiote both protects and puts down Peter and Eddie like a narcissist, "makes its victims believe in a world where only them and the narcissist exist" (a quote I read in a psych article once). If the victim fights back, it will hit your weak spots. (Intervention, anyone?) And once the victim rejects the narcissist, they develop an obsession for vengeance.

So the more I think about it, the symbiote might be the best thing about this show besides GG. It's just that with only the symbiote having a clear motivation, Venom's motivation comes across as just revenge.

 

[Mistah K88]

I just had a thought... Did Harry secretly hate Peter too? He practically begged Peter to try out for football with him, thinking he had a one up due to his steroid usage (not knowing Peter had enhancements of his own), then got annoyed that Peter was doing better than him...


Also I'm not sure if you guys read this or not but in Spectacular Spider-Man#302

https://www.avclub.com/peter-parker...acul-1824023531/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Take a look at Adult and teenage Peter's clothing. So...is this a win?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I just had a thought... Did Harry secretly hate Peter too? He practically begged Peter to try out for football with him, thinking he had a one up due to his steroid usage (not knowing Peter had enhancements of his own), then got annoyed that Peter was doing better than him...

Maybe that was his way to prove to himself that he can best Peter at something, so he can better show off to his father that he's not a disappointment.

Also I'm not sure if you guys read this or not but in Spectacular Spider-Man#302

https://www.avclub.com/peter-parker...acul-1824023531/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Take a look at Adult and teenage Peter's clothing. So...is this a win?

I think I'd say that, but I prefer the season 2-onwards shirt for 90s cartoon Peter.
This started as my favorite Spider-Men story, better than the ones with Miles.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

A 10-year-anniversary interview with Weisman, Cook and Keaton.

Enjoy!

http://www.comicsonline.com/2018/04/comicsonline-exclusive-the-spectacular-spider-man-10th-anniversary-reunion-interviews/

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Part 2 with a video.

http://www.comicsonline.com/2018/04/26029/

 

[Venom 1988]

Cool thanks for sharing

 

[Mistah K88]

It's amazing how after 10 years, a show with only 26 episodes is still hailed as one of the best media adaptions of Spider-Man. Even the episodes that were less than stellar were never BAD. I'd even say that you start to appreciate episodes that you were "meh" on when they first premiered.

What episode of the series did you feel neutral when it originally ran, but grew to love years after the show ended? (if any)

 

[Spider-Aziz]

A 10-year-anniversary interview with Weisman, Cook and Keaton.

Enjoy!

http://www.comicsonline.com/2018/04/comicsonline-exclusive-the-spectacular-spider-man-10th-anniversary-reunion-interviews/

Great interview, thanks for sharing.

It's amazing how after 10 years, a show with only 26 episodes is still hailed as one of the best media adaptions of Spider-Man. Even the episodes that were less than stellar were never BAD. I'd even say that you start to appreciate episodes that you were "meh" on when they first premiered.

What episode of the series did you feel neutral when it originally ran, but grew to love years after the show ended? (if any)

When I reviewed the episodes last month, I thought the weakest episodes were still pretty good, nothing lesser than a 7.5/10. I never found myself bored or annoyed while watching an episode of the show when it was newly airing.