Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[NotSoLongAgo]

This isnt the spider-man I grew up with!

 

[Flint Marko]

Did something substantial actually happen, or is this the typical "jumping to conclusions followed by endless complaining" that this board is so notorious for?

 

[PeterBenParker]

Ah, MCU police are in full effect.

 

[Flint Marko]

You mean people who don't complain everyday about a movie we know very little about? How unreasonable of us

You inadvertently answered my question though, so thanks.

 

[PeterBenParker]

You mean people who don't complain everyday about a movie we know very little about? How unreasonable of us

You misspelled "praise every little thing we get about the film and take shots at those wanting something more familiar" but alright.

I'm sorry, but the whole "we don't know a lot about this therefore we shouldn't complain" thing is just bogus. If that's the case, nobody should discuss anything about the film (nor any film) good or bad BECAUSE we know little about it -- voiding the purpose of a discussion thread in the first place. We have set photos, comic con descriptions, rumors/scoops/news, interviews, etc.

 

[harryoscop]

Did something substantial actually happen, or is this the typical "jumping to conclusions followed by endless complaining" that this board is so notorious for?

Nope, somebody on Twitter suggested I bump the thread and I thought it was a good idea considering all of the stuff that's come out since this thread was created.

My skepticism/concerns in order:


- Tony Stark taking over the movie or/and suiting up to help Spidey defeat the Vulture or possibly defeating him by himself.


- Tony being too involved in the plot


- Tony dating Aunt May and replacing/taking Uncle Ben's role (a vital figure in every version of Peter Parker, even the Ultimate cartoon realizes this)


- Tony's supporting characters having too much screen time.

- Tony is rumored to be teaching Peter the meaning of responsibility in this movie which would be a slap in the face to the Spider-Man character and his core.


- Peter continuing to be Tony's puppet boy, as well as being irresponsible with twisted priorities like he was portrayed in Civil War. Basically missing the entire point of why Lee & Ditko created him in the first place.




- No Jameson/Daily Bugle. You'd think after it's absence in the Webb series, they'd want to include it in this movie, as well as take advantage of the crossover potential for JJ and the Daily Bugle.



- Adrian Toomes being radically altered from his comic-counterpart


- Many of the supporting Spidey characters 'seem' to have been twisted, swapped and mangled beyond recognition into "In Name Only" versions of their former selfs: Sally Avril Betty Brant, Laura Lynton Sally Avril and Ganke Lee Ned Leeds. You could also add Flash Thompson too but I wanna give him a chance because of the great actor.


- Shocker not having a recognizable costume or adapting the Ultimate look.

All v

 

[Flint Marko]

You misspelled "praise every little thing we get about the film

When have I praised every little thing we get about the film? Do tell, I must've missed that.

and take shots at those wanting something more familiar" but alright.

I'n not taking shots at people for wanting something close to the source material, I'm taking shots at people complaining everyday about a movie they haven't seen.

I'm sorry, but the whole "we don't know a lot about this therefore we shouldn't complain" thing is just bogus. If that's the case, nobody should discuss anything about the film (nor any film) good or bad BECAUSE we know little about it -- voiding the purpose of a discussion thread in the first place. We have set photos, comic con descriptions, rumors/scoops/news, interviews, etc.

When have I ever said that people should never complain? Do tell, I must've missed that.

 

[harryoscop]

You misspelled "praise every little thing we get about the film and take shots at those wanting something more familiar" but alright.

I'm sorry, but the whole "we don't know a lot about this therefore we shouldn't complain" thing is just bogus. If that's the case, nobody should discuss anything about the film (nor any film) good or bad BECAUSE we know little about it -- voiding the purpose of a discussion thread in the first place. We have set photos, comic con descriptions, rumors/scoops/news, interviews, etc.

Nailed it.

 

[Repulsor Blast]

i'm skeptical about:

- ultimate cartoon similarities / inspiration
- underwhelming fight scenes
- inconsistent power level / nerfed spider-man
- it having a lower budget and their being less / less good action scenes as a result
- too much mcu tie in
- too much sony desperation due to poor box office and, as a result, an obnoxious marketing campaign that spoils way too much
- cgi on spider-man looking like a video game like a lot of tasm2 cgi (tasm1 spidey cgi was really good, as was raimi for the time)

but most of all i'm concerned about the script and director that it will be a Thor 2 and not a Spider-man 2.

 

[PeterBenParker]

When have I praised every little thing we get about the film? Do tell, I must've missed that.

I have plenty.

I'n not taking shots at people for wanting something close to the source material, I'm taking shots at people complaining everyday about a movie they haven't seen.

And yet those complaints are peoples opinions, in which you like to clamor should be expressed freely. The catch, of course, being that you're allowed to express yours and yet that contradicts with you placing people complaining on your ignore list, does it not?

Also, you're definitely taking shots just to take shots -- even with source material. Ned Leeds? Tinkerer? Heck, you even made a snarky/sarcastic remark about wheatcakes in context of people getting upset over change after change.

It gets even worse. There are rumors that there's a scene in which Peter eats bacons and eggs for breakfast - instead of wheat cakes! How dare Marvel change something so drastically important! First the Tinkerer, one of the most iconic villains of all time, is younger, and now wheat cakes?!

Is nothing sacred?!?

Marvel has clearly proven that they have no idea what they're doing.

Yet that's okay because it's just taking jabs but when it's people having gripes..

I'm sure the eternal hissy-fit that is the Spider-man section of the Hype will continue, but I have faith in Marvel. They're steering this ship, and I have no doubt they will continue their winning streak with Homecoming.

Sometimes I'm genuinely embarrassed to call myself a Spider-man fan. In my ten years of being here, this section has always had a certain reputation due to the median age of regular posters being younger, but it's gotten significantly worse.

How exactly are people supposed to respond to that, exactly?

Speaking of which..

Question: What happens if we do get footage and some of our whining turns out to be for a greater truth? Do we suddenly start seeing, "Wait for the film" comments?

I guess that is your philosophy. That's fine, just be warned that doesn't apply to everyone.

I think Resident Evil: The Final Chapter looks like poop based off the trailer, which makes me less inclined to see the film. Now, I haven't really liked any of the films, so should I go see this one if I had a bad experience with the previous ones? Unlikely.

Spider-Man, obviously, is a different ballpark but if I come away from the trailer disliking it, that's going to make me less excited for the film. Will I see the film? Sure, 'cause I've seen every single Spidey film thus far because he's my favorite superhero and character of all-time but a trailer can shift an opinion. Look at Green Lantern's trailers compared to the film.

When have I ever said that people should never complain? Do tell, I must've missed that.

Oh, I'm sorry -- you said people shouldn't be whining incessantly. My mistake.

Fact of the matter from before still stands. People have a right to complain (in your case, whine) about whatever they want, just as you have the right to ignore or respond to it. However, as I said, responding defeats the purpose of your ignore list.

And you know what? As much as I don't enjoy all this, you all have a right to complain about this as much as you want.

Case closed. If it's not insulting to you, if it's not bothering you, if it's not trollish or anything of the sort, then you yourself said it's fair game and fair game it shall be as long as it's done within reason and to us it is. You may disagree, more power to you, but that's just how it'll remain.

Spoiler

Keep in mind though, those that do complain (such as myself) have positives about the film thus far, too. I guess it's just easier to be pessimistic than optimistic, especially since this all started with me from Civil War. Sadly I didn't have the enjoyment as many of you did with the take and I'm still keeping just enough hope for Homecoming to win me over.

That said, I still have Michael Keaton, Tony Revolori, Zendaya, Martin Starr, LMG, Donald Glover, etc. keeping me going. t:

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

You spent way too much of your life on that, my god

 

[harryoscop]

Hey, I mean, 'least he nailed the heck out of that post.

 

[BatsDC]

Nope, somebody on Twitter suggested I bump the thread and I thought it was a good idea considering all of the stuff that's come out since this thread was created.

My skepticism/concerns in order:

- Tony Stark taking over the movie or/and suiting up to help Spidey defeat the Vulture or possibly defeating him by himself.

- Tony being too involved in the plot

- Tony dating Aunt May and replacing/taking Uncle Ben's role (a vital figure in every version of Peter Parker, even the Ultimate cartoon realizes this)

- Tony's supporting characters having too much screen time.

- Tony is rumored to be teaching Peter the meaning of responsibility in this movie which would be a slap in the face to the Spider-Man character and his core.

- Peter continuing to be Tony's puppet boy, as well as being irresponsible with twisted priorities like he was portrayed in Civil War. Basically missing the entire point of why Lee & Ditko created him in the first place.

- No Jameson/Daily Bugle. You'd think after it's absence in the Webb series, they'd want to include it in this movie, as well as take advantage of the crossover potential for JJ and the Daily Bugle.

- Adrian Toomes being radically altered from his comic-counterpart

- Many of the supporting Spidey characters 'seem' to have been twisted, swapped and mangled beyond recognition into "In Name Only" versions of their former selfs: Sally Avril Betty Brant, Laura Lynton Sally Avril and Ganke Lee Ned Leeds. You could also add Flash Thompson too but I wanna give him a chance because of the great actor.

- Shocker not having a recognizable costume or adapting the Ultimate look.

All v

You do realise half these concerns aren't actually founded in anything

There's nothing to suggest that your concerns about Stark replacing Uncle Ben or taking over the movie will happen. This is the reason people are frustrated with the repetition of your concerns, because they're not really supported by anything, rather "well this could happen", and often it manifests in posts like "haha Iron Man: Homecoming" or "Stark's lap dog" etc, which is on its way to being as bad as the criticism found in the Sharon Carter thread

Can understand the concerns about Vulture and the supporting cast, tho

 

[Dark Raven]

An overbearing amount of puns.

Having seen Civil War now since this thread was created, I don't think puns are the problem with Spider-Man. If anything, he could do with using some.

His humour still wasn't up to scratch in that movie. Yes, he might've talked a lot, but he certainly didn't joke in the way that Spidey in the comics and cartoons does. His humour was somewhat lacking.

Most of the time he just expressed wide-eyed wonder or naivete. For example, he'd say things like "You have a metal arm? That's awesome dude!" Comic Spidey would not have stopped there. He would've added something slightly insulting to that like "How many other body parts are prosthetic? Do you have metal penis too?"

Or he says things like "You have the right to remain silent". He should've done that by webbing someone's mouth shut when they were talking too much and he's getting bored of hearing them, not just saying saying it like an over-eager hero who thinks he's going to take these fugitives in and reading them their rights like a cop.

In fact, he could've said it right here like so:

F: I don’t know if you’ve been a fight before but there’s usually not this much talking.

SM: Sorry, my bad. But you have the right to remain silent (webs Falcon's mouth shut).

It's all about the context here.

And then when he tosses a car at Bucky and says" Hey buddy, I think you lost this", this could've been something else he tossed. Maybe during the fight they could'v come across an abandoned prosthetic leg or an abandoned bird cage and he could've tossed that at Bucky or Falcon and said "I think you lost this." It suddenly changes the feel from just tossing a random object to tossing something related to them which could be slightly insulting.

Or: "Are those wings carbon fibre?" How does this demonstrate humour? It just sounds like an overly-inquisitive, nerdish Spider-Man. Instead he should've said something like "Hey bird brain, did you buy those wings at Dick's Sports Store? I've been meaning to get a pair myself."

And there were many other times he could've actually interjected some humour into some of his lines instead of either just asking questions or stating who is right or wrong.

For instance, instead of saying "Mr Stark, what should I do?" He could've said "Do you want me to just take minutes of this meeting here, or do you actually want me to do something?" It's partly about the attitude. He says the same thing essentially, but he's less of Stark's puppet.

Or "Guys, look. I’d love to keep this up but I’ve only got one job here today and I gotta impress Mr. Stark, so, I’m really sorry." Again, this is just more evidence of being Stark's puppet. He could've said "Guys, look, I'd love to stay and chat but I've got to make this short and sweet. Homework calls." No mention of impressing Stark.

Or "That thing does not obey the laws of physics at all." Who cares about the laws of physics? Make a frisbee joke or something! Comic Spidey would've done something like that. His opponents might have some sophisticated tech or impressive weapon, but Spidey would reduce it to something simplistic and mundane (like a kid's frisbee instead of a vibranium alloy shield that doesn't obey the laws of physics).

Or this dialogue:

CA: Look kid. There’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand.

SM: Stark said you’d say that. He also said to go for your legs.

CA: Did Stark tell you anything else?

SM: That you’re wrong. You think you’re right. And that makes you dangerous.

More missed opportunities where Spidey is just speaking like a naive boy. It could've gone like this instead:


CA: Look kid. There’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand.

SM: Well, remind me not to skip Civil War history class again. Maybe I'll do better next time. Tell me, do you offer resits?

CA: Did Stark tell you anything?

SM: What am I? Stark's puppet boy?

And his mention of TESB as an old movie just made him seem very green. That wasn't exactly classic comic-book Spidey humour.

Going through each of Spidey's lines in this movie, I don't think he was all that funny. He was certainly more talkative than Tobey Maguire, but still not really humorous. Andrew Garfield's humour was sometimes hit and miss, but at least the attitude was there and there were more amusing lines on the whole.

Now just imagine if Asa Butterfield had been Spider-Man instead and how much worse the delivery would've been.

Maybe Tom needs to get himself a comedy coach. Or they need to look at the comics for some Spidey lines.

If Peter had more of an attitude in the first place, then saying some of these somewhat snarky things to these heroes wouldn't have sounded out of place. But of course if he's doe-eyed and overly earnest like Maguire, then it might not fit. It doesn't have to be too cocky like Garfield, but they should surely be able to get the right balance between the two.

 

[harryoscop]

Having seen Civil War now since this thread was created, I don't think puns are the problem with Spider-Man. If anything, he could do with using some.

His humour still wasn't up to scratch in that movie. Yes, he might've talked a lot, but he certainly didn't joke in the way that Spidey in the comics and cartoons does. His humour was somewhat lacking.

Most of the time he just expressed wide-eyed wonder or naivete. For example, he'd say things like "You have a metal arm? That's awesome dude!" Comic Spidey would not have stopped there. He would've added something slightly insulting to that like "How many other body parts are prosthetic? Do you have metal penis too?"

Or he says things like "You have the right to remain silent". He should've done that by webbing someone's mouth shut when they were talking too much and he's getting bored of hearing them, not just saying saying it like an over-eager hero who thinks he's going to take these fugitives in and reading them their rights like a cop.

In fact, he could've said it right here like so:

F: I don’t know if you’ve been a fight before but there’s usually not this much talking.

SM: Sorry, my bad. But you have the right to remain silent (webs Falcon's mouth shut).

It's all about the context here.

And then when he tosses a car at Bucky and says" Hey buddy, I think you lost this", this could've been something else he tossed. Maybe during the fight they could'v come across an abandoned prosthetic leg or an abandoned bird cage and he could've tossed that at Bucky or Falcon and said "I think you lost this." It suddenly changes the feel from just tossing a random object to tossing something related to them which could be slightly insulting.

Or: "Are those wings carbon fibre?" How does this demonstrate humour? It just sounds like an overly-inquisitive, nerdish Spider-Man. Instead he should've said something like "Hey bird brain, did you buy those wings at Dick's Sports Store? I've been meaning to get a pair myself."

And there were many other times he could've actually interjected some humour into some of his lines instead of either just asking questions or stating who is right or wrong.

For instance, instead of saying "Mr Stark, what should I do?" He could've said "Do you want me to just take minutes of this meeting here, or do you actually want me to do something?" It's partly about the attitude. He says the same thing essentially, but he's less of Stark's puppet.

Or "Guys, look. I’d love to keep this up but I’ve only got one job here today and I gotta impress Mr. Stark, so, I’m really sorry." Again, this is just more evidence of being Stark's puppet. He could've said "Guys, look, I'd love to stay and chat but I've got to make this short and sweet. Homework calls." No mention of impressing Stark.

Or "That thing does not obey the laws of physics at all." Who cares about the laws of physics? Make a frisbee joke or something! Comic Spidey would've done something like that. His opponents might have some sophisticated tech or impressive weapon, but Spidey would reduce it to something simplistic and mundane (like a kid's frisbee instead of a vibranium alloy shield that doesn't obey the laws of physics).

Or this dialogue:

CA: Look kid. There’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand.

SM: Stark said you’d say that. He also said to go for your legs.

CA: Did Stark tell you anything else?

SM: That you’re wrong. You think you’re right. And that makes you dangerous.

More missed opportunities where Spidey is just speaking like a naive boy. It could've gone like this instead:


CA: Look kid. There’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand.

SM: Well, remind me not to skip Civil War history class again. Maybe I'll do better next time. Tell me, do you offer resits?

CA: Did Stark tell you anything?

SM: What am I? Stark's puppet boy?

And his mention of TESB as an old movie just made him seem very green. That wasn't exactly classic comic-book Spidey humour.

Going through each of Spidey's lines in this movie, I don't think he was all that funny. He was certainly more talkative than Tobey Maguire, but still not really humorous. Andrew Garfield's humour was sometimes hit and miss, but at least the attitude was there and there were more amusing lines on the whole.

Now just imagine if Asa Butterfield had been Spider-Man instead and how much worse the delivery would've been.

Maybe Tom needs to get himself a comedy coach. Or they need to look at the comics for some Spidey lines.

If Peter had more of an attitude in the first place, then saying some of these somewhat snarky things to these heroes wouldn't have sounded out of place. But of course if he's doe-eyed and overly earnest like Maguire, then it might not fit. It doesn't have to be too cocky like Garfield, but they should surely be able to get the right balance between the two.

Damn, Raven you should've been the one to write the "quips" for Spider-Man. It's like they were more concerned with making Peter drool over Stark than making him the sassy, wise-cracker that Spidey should be. More evidence of them sacrificing parts of Spider-Man's character to make him into a "Robin-esque" sidekick for Tony.

It's sad as hell when a guy on an internet forum (no offense, dude) makes infinitely better quips and understands the character better than the Major movie Studio.

 

[Dark Raven]

Damn, Raven you should've been the one to write the "quips" for Spider-Man. It's like they were more concerned with making Peter drool over Stark than making him the sassy, wise-cracker that Spidey should be. More evidence of them sacrificing parts of Spider-Man's character to make him into a "Robin-esque" sidekick for Tony.

It's sad as hell when a guy on an internet forum (no offense, dude) makes infinitely better quips and understands the character better than the Major movie Studio.

No offence taken. And thanks. But it is definitely very sad when they've been talking up how funny this new Spider-Man is going to be, and then he turns out to not be very funny at all. Now one could argue that he only had 15 minutes and he might be better in his own movie, but they should've used those 15 minutes to the fullest to demonstrate Spidey's full wit. Even the lines I've suggested above could've been rewritten to be more quippy. He's not really quippy at all.

And remember when many of us wanted Dylan O'Brien for Spidey? Well why was that? Part of it was that even in his delivery of lines which weren't meant to be funny (ie even in his interviews when he was responding to someone) his whole attitude and mannerisms gave off this comedic feel. Tom doesn't do that so far. He's more the doe-eyed, earnest type, which perhaps they were going for as an over-reaction to Garfield to try to make the character more like Magure again.

But an actor can be both of these things. Michael J Fox had an earnestness about him in Back To The Future, but every line he delivered sounded funny or had the potential to. And it doesn't help when Holland doesn't have very funny lines to begin with. Every quip the writers might give to Stark, they need to think about whether some of that can go to Peter instead.

 

[SpideyJJ]

Having seen Civil War now since this thread was created, I don't think puns are the problem with Spider-Man. If anything, he could do with using some.

His humour still wasn't up to scratch in that movie. Yes, he might've talked a lot, but he certainly didn't joke in the way that Spidey in the comics and cartoons does. His humour was somewhat lacking.

Most of the time he just expressed wide-eyed wonder or naivete. For example, he'd say things like "You have a metal arm? That's awesome dude!" Comic Spidey would not have stopped there. He would've added something slightly insulting to that like "How many other body parts are prosthetic? Do you have metal penis too?"

Or he says things like "You have the right to remain silent". He should've done that by webbing someone's mouth shut when they were talking too much and he's getting bored of hearing them, not just saying saying it like an over-eager hero who thinks he's going to take these fugitives in and reading them their rights like a cop.

In fact, he could've said it right here like so:

F: I don’t know if you’ve been a fight before but there’s usually not this much talking.

SM: Sorry, my bad. But you have the right to remain silent (webs Falcon's mouth shut).

It's all about the context here.

And then when he tosses a car at Bucky and says" Hey buddy, I think you lost this", this could've been something else he tossed. Maybe during the fight they could'v come across an abandoned prosthetic leg or an abandoned bird cage and he could've tossed that at Bucky or Falcon and said "I think you lost this." It suddenly changes the feel from just tossing a random object to tossing something related to them which could be slightly insulting.

Or: "Are those wings carbon fibre?" How does this demonstrate humour? It just sounds like an overly-inquisitive, nerdish Spider-Man. Instead he should've said something like "Hey bird brain, did you buy those wings at Dick's Sports Store? I've been meaning to get a pair myself."

And there were many other times he could've actually interjected some humour into some of his lines instead of either just asking questions or stating who is right or wrong.

For instance, instead of saying "Mr Stark, what should I do?" He could've said "Do you want me to just take minutes of this meeting here, or do you actually want me to do something?" It's partly about the attitude. He says the same thing essentially, but he's less of Stark's puppet.

Or "Guys, look. I’d love to keep this up but I’ve only got one job here today and I gotta impress Mr. Stark, so, I’m really sorry." Again, this is just more evidence of being Stark's puppet. He could've said "Guys, look, I'd love to stay and chat but I've got to make this short and sweet. Homework calls." No mention of impressing Stark.

Or "That thing does not obey the laws of physics at all." Who cares about the laws of physics? Make a frisbee joke or something! Comic Spidey would've done something like that. His opponents might have some sophisticated tech or impressive weapon, but Spidey would reduce it to something simplistic and mundane (like a kid's frisbee instead of a vibranium alloy shield that doesn't obey the laws of physics).

Or this dialogue:

CA: Look kid. There’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand.

SM: Stark said you’d say that. He also said to go for your legs.

CA: Did Stark tell you anything else?

SM: That you’re wrong. You think you’re right. And that makes you dangerous.

More missed opportunities where Spidey is just speaking like a naive boy. It could've gone like this instead:


CA: Look kid. There’s a lot going on here that you don’t understand.

SM: Well, remind me not to skip Civil War history class again. Maybe I'll do better next time. Tell me, do you offer resits?

CA: Did Stark tell you anything?

SM: What am I? Stark's puppet boy?

And his mention of TESB as an old movie just made him seem very green. That wasn't exactly classic comic-book Spidey humour.

Going through each of Spidey's lines in this movie, I don't think he was all that funny. He was certainly more talkative than Tobey Maguire, but still not really humorous. Andrew Garfield's humour was sometimes hit and miss, but at least the attitude was there and there were more amusing lines on the whole.

Now just imagine if Asa Butterfield had been Spider-Man instead and how much worse the delivery would've been.

Maybe Tom needs to get himself a comedy coach. Or they need to look at the comics for some Spidey lines.

If Peter had more of an attitude in the first place, then saying some of these somewhat snarky things to these heroes wouldn't have sounded out of place. But of course if he's doe-eyed and overly earnest like Maguire, then it might not fit. It doesn't have to be too cocky like Garfield, but they should surely be able to get the right balance between the two.

Lol some of these quips actually made me chuckle a little.

 

[Flint Marko]

And yet those complaints are peoples opinions, in which you like to clamor should be expressed freely. The catch, of course, being that you're allowed to express yours and yet that contradicts with you placing people complaining on your ignore list, does it not?

Also, you're definitely taking shots just to take shots -- even with source material. Ned Leeds? Tinkerer? Heck, you even made a snarky/sarcastic remark about wheatcakes in context of people getting upset over change after change.

Yet that's okay because it's just taking jabs but when it's people having gripes..

How exactly are people supposed to respond to that, exactly?

Hey guy, let's look at my original quote:

I'm not taking shots at people for wanting something close to the source material, I'm taking shots at people complaining everyday about a movie they haven't seen.

"I'm" = "I am" = present tense.

Finding jokes I made months ago doesn't contradict this, but thanks for playing

I guess that is your philosophy. That's fine, just be warned that doesn't apply to everyone.

I think Resident Evil: The Final Chapter looks like poop based off the trailer, which makes me less inclined to see the film. Now, I haven't really liked any of the films, so should I go see this one if I had a bad experience with the previous ones? Unlikely.

Spider-Man, obviously, is a different ballpark but if I come away from the trailer disliking it, that's going to make me less excited for the film. Will I see the film? Sure, 'cause I've seen every single Spidey film thus far because he's my favorite superhero and character of all-time but a trailer can shift an opinion. Look at Green Lantern's trailers compared to the film.



Oh, I'm sorry -- you said people shouldn't be whining incessantly. My mistake.

Fact of the matter from before still stands. People have a right to complain (in your case, whine) about whatever they want, just as you have the right to ignore or respond to it. However, as I said, responding defeats the purpose of your ignore list.



Case closed. If it's not insulting to you, if it's not bothering you, if it's not trollish or anything of the sort, then you yourself said it's fair game and fair game it shall be as long as it's done within reason and to us it is. You may disagree, more power to you, but that's just how it'll remain.

Spoiler

Keep in mind though, those that do complain (such as myself) have positives about the film thus far, too. I guess it's just easier to be pessimistic than optimistic, especially since this all started with me from Civil War. Sadly I didn't have the enjoyment as many of you did with the take and I'm still keeping just enough hope for Homecoming to win me over.

That said, I still have Michael Keaton, Tony Revolori, Zendaya, Martin Starr, LMG, Donald Glover, etc. keeping me going. t:

All you've proven here is that I'm consistent, so I don't know what your point is. Of course you all have the right to complain about the same unsubstantiated fears and doubts every single day, just as we all have the right to let you know how immature and short-sighted it is.

That being said, this is the skepticism thread, so I'm out - hopefully this is where you all can focus your premature trepidations as opposed to the other threads, allowing for a wider range of more thoughtful discussion in this section.

You do realise half these concerns aren't actually founded in anything

There's nothing to suggest that your concerns about Stark replacing Uncle Ben or taking over the movie will happen. This is the reason people are frustrated with the repetition of your concerns, because they're not really supported by anything, rather "well this could happen", and often it manifests in posts like "haha Iron Man: Homecoming" or "Stark's lap dog" etc, which is on its way to being as bad as the criticism found in the Sharon Carter thread

Can understand the concerns about Vulture and the supporting cast, tho

 

[harryoscop]

You guys keep saying our concerns are unwarranted but have yet to provide any evidence of this being the case. All of our concerns are legitimate, substantiated and valid.

 

[Dark Raven]

Now in Homecoming, I expect Spidey to belittle Vulture's tech, make fun of his age, strategy etc. I don't want to hear him inquiring about the tech like he's at a science fair.

Spidey says these things to undermine the villains' confidence and distract and annoy them in order to gain the upper hand, not to marvel at their equipment.

 

[harryoscop]

Now in Homecoming, I expect Spidey to belittle Vulture's tech, make fun of his age, strategy etc. I don't want to hear him inquiring about the tech like he's at a science fair.

Spidey says these things to undermine the villains' confidence and distract and annoy them in order to gain the upper hand, not to marvel at their equipment.

We could end up with something like:

Spidey: Mr. Stark said you're a bad guy


Vulture: Kid, do you think I give a damn about what that sleazy business tycoon thinks about me?


Spidey: I gotta impress him so he'll let me join the Avengers, i'm really sorry.


Vulture: Whatever, Kid, you're not stopping me.


Spidey: Sweet wings, are they made of carbon aluminum?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

OK, saying stuff like RDJ will totally take over the movie is a case of being unfounded. We have no access to the script. We have seen literally NOTHING of RDJ in ANY of the pix with the exception of his car.

Dark Raven, however, does bring up concerns about the quipping, based on how he was written in Civil War. I agree with most of what he said.

Some of Raven's quips I don't think Peter would say (like the penis joke, in fact I think his curse in Civil War was a bit out of character).

Also, I think you missed the point of "I think you lost this." Pete didn't pick up a random thing and fling it at Bucky. I don't remember off hand what it was, but Bucky hurled it at Spidey, who sensed it and ducked out of the way, caught it with his web, and hurled it back at Bucky. That was actually a case where it was written correctly and what was funny about the quip.

But, yeah, that was really his only quip. So hopefully, the writers will give him more quips.

Which goes back to concerns of the writers...

My only hope is these guys bring their "A" game. I see one of the writers playing Sam in Freaks and Geeks, and I hope that some where in him is a Spider-Man fan who can do this. Also, they are not the only ones getting writing credit and the director is too. So hopefully they can pull it off.

And I agree about Michael J. Fox. Maybe this was just Spidey being thrown in this situation with his heroes. Maybe, once he's been at this for a while and going against villians, Tom will be able to pull off the more quippy Spider-man.

 

[BatsDC]

You guys keep saying our concerns are unwarranted but have yet to provide any evidence of this being the case. All of our concerns are legitimate, substantiated and valid.

... Are they? Maybe. But not in the way you presented them above.

Tony Stark taking over the movie or/and suiting up to help Spidey defeat the Vulture or possibly defeating him by himself.
- Beyond Stark being in the movie, there is nothing to suggest that he will be "taking over the movie". The same argument, based on that, could be made for any character. We have no idea how big - or small - his role might be. The possibly defeating Vulture by himself is totally invented by you. That's not even a valid concern. That's just being overly dramatic and making up reasons to be upset about Stark. That won't happen.

Tony being too involved in the plot
- If he fits the plot, I don't see how this would be an issue. Really this seems to be the same as your "taking over the movie" point, so this shouldn't count as a seperate concern.

Tony dating Aunt May and replacing/taking Uncle Ben's role (a vital figure in every version of Peter Parker, even the Ultimate cartoon realizes this)
- Again, nothing to suggest this will happen. It'd go against Stark's character - he's "taking a break" with Pepper, and clearly not over her. How can he take Uncle Ben's role if the only role Uncle Ben would have is being dead and a memory? Peter has already learnt his lesson from Uncle Ben, hence his speech in Civil War.


Tony's supporting characters having too much screen time.
- You mean Happy? The sole supporting character from the Iron Man franchise in the movie? Who was added to the cast way into filming, suggesting his role is tiny? Who is probably going to just be in one, maybe two scenes, tops? 'Kay.

Tony is rumored to be teaching Peter the meaning of responsibility in this movie which would be a slap in the face to the Spider-Man character and his core.
- Never heard that rumour; wouldn't make sense, so likely bull. Where did that even come from? This is honestly the first time I've seen it mentioned. Again, Peter already learnt this lesson from Uncle Ben.

Peter continuing to be Tony's puppet boy, as well as being irresponsible with twisted priorities like he was portrayed in Civil War. Basically missing the entire point of why Lee & Ditko created him in the first place.
- This I don't understand. He wasn't Tony's "puppet boy" - that's a deliberate skewing and misunderstanding of his role in the film. I also don't see how he was irresponsible, or had twisted priorities... If anything, he was doing the right thing, given what he knew at the time. I didn't see anything in Civil War that suggested that the MCU version of Spidey was going against the character Lee & Ditko created. Part of the problem here is you're assuming that what we saw in Civil War is all there is to his character, whereas that was an introduction. We don't get to see all the facets of his personality beacuse in Civil War he's merely a minor character in a much larger narrative. Perfect example of this is Ant-Man - we get a very narrow view of his personality in Civil War, which makes him kinda one-dimensional. But look at his solo movie, and you see a lot more. The same will be the case here. Difference here is we don't have Spidey's solo movie yet, so we can't see that broader picture yet. But to assume there wouldn't be any change to his character, any deeper look at Peter's psyche, just seems to me as yet another way of bashing what we have and being negative.

I noted that your other concerns were totally valid, if in some cases presumptuous - although the counters to those would be also. There's nothing wrong with the concerns laid out above in principle - yeah I get not wanting Stark to be too tied to the Spidey mythos. I'd probably prefer that too.

But saying Stark will 'hijack' the movie, take out the Vulture by himself, saying he'll be Aunt May's love interest, or even taking Uncle Ben's place... None of these are likely scenarios. You're making huge exaggerations, both in these assumptions but also in regards as to what was actually presented in terms of Peter's character, particularly in terms of his relationship with Stark. That's what becomes kinda tiresome and wearing to see over and over again. Not legitimate concerns, not insightful contributions to discussion, but instead endless variations of "Stark's lap dog", "muh Mr Stark", "Iron Man: Homecoming", etc. etc.. That's not raising concerns. It's just being over-reactionary and repetitive.

 

[Dark Raven]

We could end up with something like:

Spidey: Mr. Stark said you're a bad guy


Vulture: Kid, do you think I give a damn about what that sleazy business tycoon thinks about me?


Spidey: I gotta impress him so he'll let me join the Avengers, i'm really sorry.


Vulture: Whatever, Kid, you're not stopping me.


Spidey: Sweet wings, are they made of carbon aluminum?

MCU Spidey is a barrel of laughs!

About as funny as a student in a science lesson.

 

[Dark Raven]

OK, saying stuff like RDJ will totally take over the movie is a case of being unfounded. We have no access to the script. We have seen literally NOTHING of RDJ in ANY of the pix with the exception of his car.

Dark Raven, however, does bring up concerns about the quipping, based on how he was written in Civil War. I agree with most of what he said.

Some of Raven's quips I don't think Peter would say (like the penis joke, in fact I think his curse in Civil War was a bit out of character).

Also, I think you missed the point of "I think you lost this." Pete didn't pick up a random thing and fling it at Bucky. I don't remember off hand what it was, but Bucky hurled it at Spidey, who sensed it and ducked out of the way, caught it with his web, and hurled it back at Bucky. That was actually a case where it was written correctly and what was funny about the quip.

But, yeah, that was really his only quip. So hopefully, the writers will give him more quips.

Which goes back to concerns of the writers...

My only hope is these guys bring their "A" game. I see one of the writers playing Sam in Freaks and Geeks, and I hope that some where in him is a Spider-Man fan who can do this. Also, they are not the only ones getting writing credit and the director is too. So hopefully they can pull it off.

And I agree about Michael J. Fox. Maybe this was just Spidey being thrown in this situation with his heroes. Maybe, once he's been at this for a while and going against villians, Tom will be able to pull off the more quippy Spider-man.

I don't remember what it was about the "I think you lost this" and what was hurled at him. I only just remember the line. But my point was that if he tossed, say, an abandoned bird cage or bird house at Falcon and said "Hey buddy, I think you lost this", that would be more typical of Spidey in that he would be hitting home the point that he thinks Falcon is just some bird man.