The Squared Circle (All things Pro Wrestling)

[brainchild81]

Curling>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything

 

[Heretic]

HHH should be where he is right now for one reason...he's one of the few legends around.

We all know that if a top tier legend is still around, still over, and can still have a decent match, then they deserve to be at the top of the card. That doesnt mean that they should dominate, and certainly they should put over new top tier talent. But there are few legitimate legends right now...and they are needed in order to make the stars of today seem like they deserve to be legends. You keep HHH, Taker and HBK around in order to help turn Cena, Orton and Y2J into guys who can be considered legends so they can do the same to others later in their careers.

But yeah...the missing element is that they dont seem to be advancing many people, if any. When was the last time someone was elevated because of a feud with Undertaker???

 

[brainchild81]

Prob never. He's not much better than HHH when you think about it.

I remember O'Haire used that fireman's carry type finisher - it was kind of like Cena's current "Attitude Adjustment" but the direction of the fall was reversed. I don't think anyone else does is currently using it. Maybe it's time for a guy who needs a finisher to bring it back - at least it's more unique than the DDT or flatliner/downward spiral/mic check that so many guys have gone to.

Ditto. Shelton & OJ are currently using it but I'm sure there's more

 

[RetroNaz]

You were lucky to miss out on commercials hyping the return of Jay Leno.

His name shall not spoken in these parts!

 

[Heretic]

Sounds like a good plan. This could give them time to streamline the product & get it near perfect b4 going h2h against Raw. TNA won't do it tho. They'll go h2h against Raw w/the halfassed product they have & get *******d by the halfassed but more well known Raw.

Exactly.

I will go a step farther and say that they should put a UFC show up against the second hour of Raw. So, wrestling fans would tune into the X Division show after you add some top tier guys to that Division (and I'd put some knockouts on there as well, with video packages for the Impact storylines). At 8 pm many people are just waiting for Raw, and you give them wrestling to watch. Then followed by Epics. Thats a show that is already being produced, so its no extra expense. While your audience would mostly be watching Raw, you would have some flip backs when things got boring. At the same time, some UFC fans may turn it on out of boredom waiting for their show to come on. Some might be hooked into starting early to watch the X Division show. You experiment once a month with expanding to 2 hours for huge main events, maybe an iron man match or something...and keep people hooked...and then eventually make it two hours every Monday.

Its a plan so easy a moron could think it up...which is a few ntches higher than what TNA has.

 

[ARROGANCE]

Could someone be kind enough to send me a link about the urban legends of the wrestlers.


thank you

 

[Heretic]

Does TNA realize that after all the hype and money they spent, Impact is now getting the same ratings they were a few years ago?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I know I am late on this, but I just watched the show tonight from DVR.

They are missing out on an opportunity by not putting John Morrison in Money In The Bank. Why exactly does Dolph Ziggler deserve it over Morrison? Oh well - I am officially cheering for Christian in MOTB.

And I kinda hope Jericho retains at WM. I don't want to see Edge get the title as a face (tho I know it's inevitable). Not that his current direction isn't working, because I think it is, but I like Edge so much better as a heel.

 

[Calavera]

i kinda like dolph zeigler. tho the obvious choice is morrison

 

[RetroNaz]

Does TNA realize that after all the hype and money they spent, Impact is now getting the same ratings they were a few years ago?

lol well I think in this case, your signature is rather relevant to this point.

 

[Kaleb]

I know I am late on this, but I just watched the show tonight from DVR.

They are missing out on an opportunity by not putting John Morrison in Money In The Bank. Why exactly does Dolph Ziggler deserve it over Morrison? Oh well - I am officially cheering for Christian in MOTB.

And I kinda hope Jericho retains at WM. I don't want to see Edge get the title as a face (tho I know it's inevitable). Not that his current direction isn't working, because I think it is, but I like Edge so much better as a heel.

I agree, I really want to see Jericho retain the title. I just really dont trust Edge and everytime I see him on tv I expect him to turn heel again.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

i kinda like dolph zeigler. tho the obvious choice is morrison

Dolph is awesome, I just wish Vince thought so

 

[Metallo]

Does TNA realize that after all the hype and money they spent, Impact is now getting the same ratings they were a few years ago?

A few years ago they were getting below a 1.0. Like .8 on average

You mean a few MONTHS ago.

They aren't going to get a magic ratings jump overnight or even within a few months. It'll take years of people steadily getting used to the product. TNA didn't expect that and no one else should. Its unrealistic.

March 8th will be very telling about what a future move will mean.

The Jan 4 Impact was a big success despite some stiff competition that night so if they can do higher ratings or even KEEP ratings against the stronger Raw its a good sign.

Part of the reason the ratings went so high in the 90's was the excitement generated by the direct competition along with the interesting storylines. Neither are around much right now for either TNA or WWE.

WWE's selling a more recignizable brand thats synonymous with wresting in most peoples mind. If "you" (the public) wanna watch wrestling in America you watch WWE because thats all most know of or are used to. WWE = wrestling.

Thats habit. Its not always WWE's great storylines that are doing that becase quite frankly most of them are not great. Mediocre at best.

Its going to take TNA years to get their names out there in that way if they ever even do. Marketing is going to be almost just as important as the on screen product in some ways.

A great product won't mean squat if nobody knows TNA Impact is on and isn't watching. They need to get their name out there and put on a good show to keep people hooked. If the move to Mondays gives Spike incentive to market TNA more then I can't blame them.

 

[Metallo]

www.lordsofpain.net

News on tonight's WWE RAW
guest host, Backstage WWE release reaction
By Brian Cantor
Mar 1, 2010 - 1:22:25 AM

-- While it remains unclear how much of Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong's drug shtick will emerge during their guest hosting gig on Monday's PG edition of WWE RAW, the WWE.com website preview has not shied away from puns related to drug use.

Despite actively fining wrestlers who are caught smoking marijuana, WWE's preview for RAW reads as follows:

"One Trippy RAW - RAW will be taken to a higher level when comedy legends Cheech and Chong guest host live from Oklahoma City. Taking a break from their comedy tour, the duo will no doubt want to ensure everyone has a great time."

-- Sources say that of the five WWE releases confirmed over the weekend, only referee Scott Armstrong's "future endeavors" message caught the locker room by true surprise. Details have not emerged, but the feeling is that there is likely a greater story involved. (Source: F4WOnline.com)

WWE Changes Another PPV Name, Paul Burchill Update, Sheik Retirement Match, Bret
By Marc Middleton
Mar 1, 2010 - 4:40:28 AM

- Bret Hart will be holding a book signing at The Changing Hands Bookstore during WrestleMania weekend in Tempe, Arizona, not far from Phoenix. For more information, call 480-730-0205.

- The Millennium Wrestling Federation out of Massachusetts is advertising a "retirement match" for WWE Hall of Famer The Iron Sheik on April 24th. Sheik will be teaming with TNA's Jay Lethal to take on Dylan Kage. The next night, April 25th, MWF will be holding an Iron Sheik Appreciation Night where fans are involved in a new Sheik shoot interview. MWF is the same promotion that John Cena Sr. is involved with.

- Recently released WWE talent Paul Burchill will be appearing on May 8th in White Plains, NY at the New York Wrestling Fan Fest.

- WWE released their full pay-per-view calendar for the rest of 2010 to media partners this past week and the most notable change from what we've seen is the May pay-per-view titled Wild Card has been changed to WWE Over The Limit. Survivor Series is still being advertised for November but it's expected that name will be changed but not confirmed.

 

[Heretic]

A few years ago they were getting below a 1.0. Like .8 on average

You mean a few MONTHS ago.

They aren't going to get a magic ratings jump overnight or even within a few months. It'll take years of people steadily getting used to the product. TNA didn't expect that and no one else should. Its unrealistic.

March 8th will be very telling about what a future move will mean.

The Jan 4 Impact was a big success despite some stiff competition that night so if they can do higher ratings or even KEEP ratings against the stronger Raw its a good sign.

Part of the reason the ratings went so high in the 90's was the excitement generated by the direct competition along with the interesting storylines. Neither are around much right now for either TNA or WWE.

WWE's selling a more recignizable brand thats synonymous with wresting in most peoples mind. If "you" (the public) wanna watch wrestling in America you watch WWE because thats all most know of or are used to. WWE = wrestling.

Thats habit. Its not always WWE's great storylines that are doing that becase quite frankly most of them are not great. Mediocre at best.

Its going to take TNA years to get their names out there in that way if they ever even do. Marketing is going to be almost just as important as the on screen product in some ways.

A great product won't mean squat if nobody knows TNA Impact is on and isn't watching. They need to get their name out there and put on a good show to keep people hooked. If the move to Mondays gives Spike incentive to market TNA more then I can't blame them.

Actually, no...I was right. TNA did hit 1.2 ratings off and on over the past few years. June, July, September, November and December of 2007 in fact.

In fact, if memory serves, TNA actually got higher ratings in 08 than they did in 09...something like that. I know that they were ding well for awhile and then started sinking back down again because they could not maintain any sort of momentum. You know, kinda like what happened in the past month.

 

[Metallo]

That wasn't their average rating though. Those were usually their HIGH. Just like right now their average rating of today is higher than their average rating of three years ago.

Did they consistently do 1.2 every week in 2007? No.

You can't compare their BEST ratings from that year with their average week to week ratings.

 

[Metallo]

Its COMMON SENSE that the rating was going to come down in the last month. Not even WWE could have sustained that kind of rating if they were a newer company. Peoples interest got piqued with the Monday night show then steadily dropped. but I wouldn't say they've "lost" momentum. Ratings go up and down. WWE's ratings go up and down. There are various reasons for that.

That was going to happen and everyone knew it was going too happen coming of a live Monday supershow.

The curiosity factor over what they were going to do after Hogan came in on the 4th got interest. Hogan's appearance was a short term boost but that was obvious. Its going to take a long time of people getting used to Impact to sustain any kind of regular interest. All thats not some big shock to TNA, Spike, or anyone else with realistic expectations.

You have to look at LONG TERM growth not a short term snapshot. The product is subjective but in terms of long term growth and viewership TNA is slowly building up from where it was 3 or 4 years ago.

It can take 20 years to build a wrestling company. Vince expanded WWE but he didn't build it from scratch. He bought the WWWF from his dad and used its infrastructure. WWWF broke away from the NWA in the early 60's but was around as part of it before even then. The WWWF/WWF name was already strongly recognized by many when Vince bought it and before his expansion.

WCW was also around for years before it grew and it had a legacy from various territories/promoters/stars to build off of. Before Turner bought out JCP's wrestling interests it was already quite popular in parts of North America and outside North America.

TNA more or less started from scratch in 2002.

 

[BlackLantern]

what happens when football starts??? has TNA thought of that yet...the WWE takes a hit when MNF starts up each fall, its why they scale a lot of things back during the first month of the football season

 

[The Sage]

I know I am late on this, but I just watched the show tonight from DVR.

They are missing out on an opportunity by not putting John Morrison in Money In The Bank. Why exactly does Dolph Ziggler deserve it over Morrison? Oh well - I am officially cheering for Christian in MOTB.

And I kinda hope Jericho retains at WM. I don't want to see Edge get the title as a face (tho I know it's inevitable). Not that his current direction isn't working, because I think it is, but I like Edge so much better as a heel.

I agree, I really want to see Jericho retain the title. I just really dont trust Edge and everytime I see him on tv I expect him to turn heel again.

Aww come on guys I"m sure Edge will be a good face. I think he'll do well. He may end up like HHH used to be eventually, meaning he can only go so long as a face and has to be a heel before the year is over.

And too, want Jericho to retain.

 

[Metallo]

what happens when football starts??? has TNA thought of that yet...the WWE takes a hit when MNF starts up each fall, its why they scale a lot of things back during the first month of the football season

`

WWE never takes a HUGE hit. Their ratings aren't cut in half. TNA would likely do around slightly less than what they do now. More of TNA's fanbase right now is the wrestling faithful compared to WWE's audience which is made up of die hards, kids, and casual fans. The wrestling faithful will watch both shows regardless and others will DVR them.

You DO know people can do that now right? DVR? And you DO know that networks are beginning to look at those numbers before making any assumptions on ratings. First night ratings count but that doesn't mean people don't watch. The Neilsons are fast becoming an archaic system anyway and you really only matter if you've got one of those boxes.

I would imagine USA and Spike have factored in Football. Do you really think they haven't?

 

[BlackLantern]

`

WWE never takes a HUGE hit. Their ratings aren't cut in half. TNA would likely do around slightly less than what they do now. More of TNA's fanbase right now is the wrestling faithful compared to WWE's audience which is made up of die hards, kids, and casual fans. The wrestling faithful will watch both shows regardless and others will DVR them.

You DO know people can do that now right? DVR? And you DO know that networks are beginning to look at those numbers before making any assumptions on ratings. First night ratings count but that doesn't mean people don't watch. The Neilsons are fast becoming an archaic system anyway and you really only matter if you've got one of those boxes.

I would imagine USA and Spike have factored in Football. Do you really think they haven't?

no not a huge hit, but its noticeable the first couple weeks of MNF

yes and no, and its actually a story ive been following for some time now...the networks do look at DVR and online numbers, but its very cursory...high DVR or online viewership isn't a determining factor in whether a show gets cancelled or not....Terminator had seriously high DVR numbers and still got canned

networks make most of their money off of ad revenue (selling commericials during their programming) and no one is watching commericals if they are DVRing shows

my whole point was that the WWE, TNA, and the NFL all covet the same demographic

 

[Heretic]

This concept that people wont watch wrestling because its the wrong day of the week is absurd. People tried TNA, gave it a few weeks, and are now tuning out because the product is not entertaining them enough to stay. If they werent making the move to Mondays then the Thursday ratings would fall to a 1.1 in March...which means they are LOSING viewers, not gaining. They will go to Mondays and get hammered and have the excuse of being against WWE. It's all a charade with TNA.

 

[BlackLantern]

This concept that people wont watch wrestling because its the wrong day of the week is absurd. People tried TNA, gave it a few weeks, and are now tuning out because the product is not entertaining them enough to stay. If they werent making the move to Mondays then the Thursday ratings would fall to a 1.1 in March...which means they are LOSING viewers, not gaining. They will go to Mondays and get hammered and have the excuse of being against WWE. It's all a charade with TNA.

my question has been "what is TNA doing to attract new viewers"?? the people watching TNA now are the die hard TNA fans and probably some casual viewers with Hogan there, but they aren't watching every week

 

[Metallo]

But Terminator and shows like that aren't wrestling and wasn't Terminator on a network while these two wrestling shows are on cable? Bit of a difference there.

I'd say wrestling skews a bit younger than football which has a broader audience anyway. A lot of the same people that watch wrestling will keep watching and they still have that younger demographic that advertisers try to reach and they'll still have it when footballs off.

Thats a key point: Just because a lot of people will choose to watch football live over wrestling on Mondays that doesn't mean they aren't going to come BACK to wrestling once football season is over. The cable networks fator this in and weather that storm.

This isn't a new phenomina.

 

[BlackLantern]

But Terminator and shows like that aren't wrestling and wasn't Terminator on a network while these two wrestling shows are on cable? Bit of a difference there.

I'd say wrestling skews a bit younger than football which has a broader audience anyway. A lot of the same people that watch wrestling will keep watching and they still have that younger demographic that advertisers try to reach and they'll still have it when footballs off.

Thats a key point: Just because a lot of people will choose to watch football live over wrestling on Mondays that doesn't mean they aren't going to come BACK to wrestling once football season is over. The cable networks fator this in and weather that storm.

This isn't a new phenomina.

I think the number of people that "go back" has been getting smaller each year as the WWE has skewed younger

just my opinion