The Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 60

[Iceman]

Someone said it best about plans...

And DC have been floored in every round. Got to be at least a technical knockout by now.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I’m still of the mind that if WB/DC releases Batgirl in its entirety, maybe their fortunes will reverse. It’s like that curse Madame Zeroni put on the Yelnats family in Holes.

At this point, I think Batgirl would flop as well. I think it would likely do better than Blue Beetle will end up doing, but I don't imagine it would make money. The DC Brand is in the toilet. There is a curiosity factor for Batgirl that would boost it, but I don't think enough

 

[Iceman]

Damn, really sorry for those involved in it. It’s come too late with CBM origins like this having been done so many times by this point, in too stacked a window, and at the worst possible time within the DC calendar (with the DCEU already deader than dead and before the GA know about the DCU where there could at least be some hope).

 

[Iceman]

At this point, I think Batgirl would flop as well. I think it would likely do better than Blue Beetle will end up doing, but I don't imagine it would make money. The DC Brand is in the toilet. There is a curiosity factor for Batgirl that would boost it, but I don't think enough

I think it would have piqued people’s interest on streaming. Not sure it would have been a box office success at this point in time. I want to see it one day somehow.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think it would have piqued people’s interest on streaming. Not sure it would have been a box office success at this point in time. I want to see it one day somehow.

I think it should see life as a streamer movie. Low cost investment since it was basically done and you don't have to pay to put it in theaters or do a massive marketing campaign. Prob would do enough to justify it

 

[MadVillainy]

Snyder was a problem. But we know now that he wasn't the only problem.

Oh for sure. He wasn't THE problem. The fact that he was hired and given free reign was the problem. He was the wrong guy but the fact that no one reeled him in was a bigger problem.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think they should've kept Jaime a teenager and leaned into the YA angle.
Same mistake they made with Shazam imo

 

[Iceman]

Know whats even sadder? DC came out the gate swinging in the midst of the pandemic with DC Fandome and it really looked like they had their s*** together with an exciting slate of movies over the next several years. Remember how hyped we all were here? And there was something for everyone: "You want more Wonder Woman? Here's a bright new fun movie coming out," "You want the Snyder cut? Well here it is!" "We got the Guardians of the Galaxy director taking a fresh swing at Suicide Squad!" "We got an awesome new elseworlds Batman movie from an acclaimed director!" Everything just looked awesome.

You’re right. It really is sad after how excited everyone was during Fandome, it was such an awesome time on the Hype. It was a great event and I thought if they could keep doing something like that every year that we could turn the corner.

Unfortunately we were nowhere near the lows given how Shazam and Flash have performed, and how Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 will perform. I’m not going to let anything get in the way of my blind faith that Superman Legacy will come and save the day, but DC fans have really been through the ringer and it’s sad to acknowledge now that the Fandome event was a false dawn.

 

[Iceman]

Just saw this on BOT and man this is just straight up embarrassing and sad. It's crazy that both Universal with its failed Monster's Universe and now Warner Bros with the DCEU are the only studios in history to have ever been successful at completely running a shared universe into the ground.

It's especially ironic too since both studios are about have two BIG hits coming this weekend with Barbie and Oppenheimer which shows they aren't completely incompetent either.

This really isn't good news for Aquaman 2 either.

Barbenheimer shows how important it is to have top creators at the helm.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You’re right. It really is sad after how excited everyone was during Fandome, it was such an awesome time on the Hype. It was a great event and I thought if they could keep doing something like that every year that we could turn the corner.

Unfortunately we were nowhere near the lows given how Shazam and Flash have performed, and how Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 will perform. I’m not going to let anything get in the way of my blind faith that Superman Legacy will come and save the day, but DC fans have really been through the ringer and it’s sad to acknowledge now that the Fandome event was a false dawn.

My wife watches all these movies with me, but she got into them largely cause of me. I was talking to her this week about the entire state of DC, and when I mentioned the reboot with Superman Legacy, her exact words to me was she is sick of getting just Superman and Batman movies (Robert Pattinson being an exception cause she loved that Batman) and that she wishes they started with other characters, preferably versions that don't suck like Flash. Her exact words lol. So she isn't exactly hyped for Superman Legacy. I don't think that means anything as a large trend, but I found her apathy interesting

 

[kguillou]

Oh for sure. He wasn't THE problem. The fact that he was hired and given free reign was the problem. He was the wrong guy but the fact that no one reeled him in was a bigger problem.

People will get mad at me for saying this but I think "free reign" was ultimately the achilles heel for all the directors after Snyder too and ultimately led to where we are. Alot of creative decisions made on these movies that should have had a bit of intervention/oversight.

 

[KBX]

I would not be oppose to DC being like early 90s Marvel and licensed out their heros…..

If Legacy truly does flop we will have a conversation

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I think what makes it even more frustrating is that Warner Bros had every chance/opportunity in the world to change this sinking ship around once they saw those lackluster BO results for MOS.

The only reason that movie did as well as it did is because it had a great marketing campaign behind it, but it ended up being super divisive among general audiences and failed to even cross a billion worldwide.

That right there should have been enough of a warning sign of the bad things to come, but instead of changing direction they just doubled down on Synder's vision which is why they are in this mess in the first place.

Now, I still have faith in Superman: Legacy but Warner Bros needs to really get there crap together when marketing that thing and it needs to be a quality film first and foremost.

 

[Moncton]

My wife watches all these movies with me, but she got into them largely cause of me. I was talking to her this week about the entire state of DC, and when I mentioned the reboot with Superman Legacy, her exact words to me was she is sick of getting just Superman and Batman movies (Robert Pattinson being an exception cause she loved that Batman) and that she wishes they started with other characters, preferably versions that don't suck like Flash. Her exact words lol. So she isn't exactly hyped for Superman Legacy. I don't think that means anything as a large trend, but I found her apathy interesting

I think there's something to that, comic book fans think Superman is still very relevant but I am not so sure the general public really does. They tried Superman Returns, MOS, even Superman and Lois despite being liked only gets average viewership.

 

[MadVillainy]

People will get mad at me for saying this but I think "free reign" was ultimately the achilles heel for all the directors after Snyder too and ultimately led to where we are. Alot of creative decisions made on these movies that should have had a bit of intervention/oversight.

You're right
People online like to pretend or they legit think that every time a movie ends up bad that it's due to execs or business men doing some BS. But a lot of times especially with these big blockbusters you need some level of oversight.
Filmmakers are these infallible people who never do anything wrong. As we've seen with a lot of these Netflix Original movies "carte blanche" isn't always a good thing.

You can't tell for sure but some times an artist needs someone in their corner going like "Nah that's not it man" or "Maybe try this"

 

[MadVillainy]

I think there's something to that, comic book fans think Superman is still very relevant but I am not so sure the general public really does. They tried Superman Returns, MOS, even Superman and Lois despite being liked only gets average viewership.

The whole "is he relevant" argument never made sense to me because he's only really irrelevant because he's had some not great movies.
It's a very tired thing with Superman that "he's not relatable" (but apparently super genius, super ripped billionaires are) or that "he's not relevant".

If the MCU can take these B and C list Marvel characters and make them stars, then someone can with Superman. They just need to a) give him an appealing personality like he has in the source material b) show why it would be cool to be Superman c) stop trying to deconstruct him d) stop degrading him for the sake of boosting Batman e) give him some kick ass action scenes.

The last Superman movies didn't do poorly because Superman wasn't relevant. It's because they made the character dull and/or weren't what the audience wanted. Audiences are way more accepting than some think they are

If Pirates of the Caribbean, which was a theme park ride, and Guardians of the Galaxy can be hits, there's no reason Superman cannot with the right mindset behind it

 

[MadVillainy]

I think what makes it even more frustrating is that Warner Bros had every chance/opportunity in the world to change this sinking ship around once they saw those lackluster BO results for MOS.

The only reason that movie did as well as it did is because it had a great marketing campaign behind it, but it ended up being super divisive among general audiences and failed to even cross a billion worldwide.

That right there should have been enough of a warning sign of the bad things to come, but instead of changing direction they just doubled down on Synder's vision which is why they are in this mess in the first place.

Now, I still have faith in Superman: Legacy but Warner Bros needs to really get there crap together when marketing that thing and it needs to be a quality film first and foremost.

WB really wanted to be a filmmakers studio. And on one hand that gave us stuff like Fury Road and TDKS, but then it landed us in the mess by not saying no to Snyder who (and this has been said to death and I'd rather just stop talking about him) doesn't get the appeal of Superman and arguably not Millerverse Batman.

 

[Iceman]

My wife watches all these movies with me, but she got into them largely cause of me. I was talking to her this week about the entire state of DC, and when I mentioned the reboot with Superman Legacy, her exact words to me was she is sick of getting just Superman and Batman movies (Robert Pattinson being an exception cause she loved that Batman) and that she wishes they started with other characters, preferably versions that don't suck like Flash. Her exact words lol. So she isn't exactly hyped for Superman Legacy. I don't think that means anything as a large trend, but I found her apathy interesting

I know a bunch of GA people who were really into CBMs up to Endgame and their enthusiasm has reduced every time I’ve spoken to them since. It’s not a Marvel or DC thing with them, just a general lack of interest right now. I don’t even bring them up any more.

 

[Iceman]

People will get mad at me for saying this but I think "free reign" was ultimately the achilles heel for all the directors after Snyder too and ultimately led to where we are. Alot of creative decisions made on these movies that should have had a bit of intervention/oversight.

Yep, even Gunn himself could have benefited from it.

 

[Moncton]

The whole "is he relevant" argument never made sense to me because he's only really irrelevant because he's had some not great movies.
It's a very tired thing with Superman that "he's not relatable" (but apparently super genius, super ripped billionaires are) or that "he's not relevant".

If the MCU can take these B and C list Marvel characters and make them stars, then someone can with Superman. They just need to a) give him an appealing personality like he has in the source material b) show why it would be cool to be Superman c) stop trying to deconstruct him d) stop degrading him for the sake of boosting Batman e) give him some kick ass action scenes.

The last Superman movies didn't do poorly because Superman wasn't relevant. It's because they made the character dull and/or weren't what the audience wanted. Audiences are way more accepting than some think they are

If Pirates of the Caribbean, which was a theme park ride, and Guardians of the Galaxy can be hits, there's no reason Superman cannot with the right mindset behind it

I don't mean relevant in terms of character traits, I mean as a brand. Despite not seeming like it, there has been a lot of Superman content over the past 15-20 years and nothing really hit big. The latest Superman and Lois is very well liked but the viewership is not great. And unlike Batman , he doesn't really have the villains that the public is excited to see him take on. I am sure a Superman film can be a hit, but I don't think many people have a huge anticipation to see one again.

 

[Iceman]

I would not be oppose to DC being like early 90s Marvel and licensed out their heros…..

If Legacy truly does flop we will have a conversation

If SL flops anything can happen. Nervous clueless execs who have no idea what’s going wrong would be capable of measures we haven’t seen to date IMO.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't mean relevant in terms of character traits, I mean as a brand. Despite not seeming like it, there has been a lot of Superman content over the past 15-20 years and nothing really hit big. The latest Superman and Lois is very well liked but the viewership is not great. And unlike Batman , he doesn't really have the villains that the public is excited to see him take on. I am sure a Superman film can be a hit, but I don't think many people have a huge anticipation to see one again.

And still as a brand, Superman can be fine. It doesn't matter if he didn't have hit for years. If they can make numerous dead or unheard of franchises into hits, they can for Superman.

Superman properties didn't take off because of the brand. They didn't take off because a lot of those properties stunk. S&L I hear is good but is on the CW and CW doesn't really pull numbers like that anyway so I'm not surprised.

Superman as a brand will be fine once they make a "good" movie. No one was excited to see numerous heroes and franchises and then they made "good" movies to turn it around.

The whole relevance argument with Superman is not very logically sound when there are so many irrelevant franchises that get turned into hits

 

[MadVillainy]

idk why but Superman is like the biggest major character that everyone likes to overthink. He's really not THAT THAT complicated of a character or story.

Adapting Supes isn't like adapting the Silmarillion or something

 

[Moncton]

And still as a brand, Superman can be fine. It doesn't matter if he didn't have hit for years. If they can make numerous dead or unheard of franchises into hits they can for Superman.

Superman properties didn't take off because of the brand. They didn't take off because a lot of those properties stunk. S&L I hear is good but is on the CW and CW doesn't really pull numbers like that anyway so I'm not surprised.

Superman as a brand will be fine once they make a "good" movie. No one was excited to see numerous heroes and franchises and then they made "good" movies to turn it around.

The whole relevance argument with Superman is not very logically sound when there are so many irrelevant franchises that get turned into hits

I hope so as a huge Superman fan, I think sometimes characters that aren't as well known as Superman may have an advantage because there are no preconceived notions going in. But I have liked most of the Superman stuff lately, even the show Krypton which I don't think many even remember came out lol.

 

[Sithborg]