The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[DoomRulz]

I love reading your posts about seeing TDK in theatres. There are few movies I can discuss in these terms! You guys are awesome.

One of my best friends and I saw TDK opening night, July 18. We went to a local AMC, whereby we had to wait in line. This of course was before assigned seating became commonplace. There was one guy there dressed up in a 1966 Bat costume which was a nice touch. I recall after we sat down, two men turned to us and asked, "OK, how excited are you guys for this film?". The magic trick scene resulted in grand applause, as did the film's finale when the credits rolled. It was the first film I saw in theatres multiple times (eight viewings, which was my record at the time!).

The midnight screening for TDKR was equally palatable. What I remember the most was how everyone went dead silent when Bane broke Batman's back. Of course, the Robin reveal led to a collective, "Aw yeah!" and when the credits rolled, the roof came off of that place. I don't think even Endgame or Infinity War (which were epic experiences unto themselves) received that kind of reaction from the crowd. Well, at the end that is. Cap's intro and Thor's return to Wakanda in IW as well the portal scene in EG were...well, I'm sure you can all imagine since you all saw them!

 

[shauner111]

I don’t miss being on my feet for an hour outside or in the lobby surrounded by sweaty ppl I’ll take waiting by sitting in a air conditioned cinema any day!

I’ll always love that trilogy. Such great memories in the theater for all 3. I bet they’ll re-release TDK in 2028 just like how i finally got to see Jurassic Park on the big screen in 2013.

 

[Gothamsknight]

They rereleased the trilogy in my state last summer for when there was no new movies. I rewatched batman begins and TDk at the cinema, and there was a group of teens with their caretaker watching the movie for the first time. No joke, the girl that was with them acted bored at first and halfway through she was on the edge of her seat. They all applauded at the end! Overheard another group of people saying how great of a film it still is. It was an honor for me to see it again at the cinema after 13 years. It brought back a flood of memories.

 

[Awest66]

I find this movie to be very misunderstood honestly. I just came off a Man of Steel analysis that said how Rises was about how "Batman represents the corrupt power structures that create men like Bane and how Gotham is better off without him but then asks us to cheer for him as he restores the corrupt structure by defeating Bane"

Do these people even bother to watch the movie?

 

[Gothamsknight]

I'll never understand how people could hate TDKR. It ties up everything and Bruces journey comes full circle. And let's be real, did anybody ever expect it to top TDK? TDK changed the industry and was the defining blockbuster of the 2000s. You can't really do that a second time in a trilogy.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Happy 13th birthday to the greatest comic book film of all time.

 

[The Joker]

13 years and still strongly holds the crown as the best. I bet it still will in another 13 years.

 

[BatLobster]

I can't believe it's a teenager now. They grow so fast...

This movie has only aged like a fine wine IMO, and will continue to. I feel like I've said pretty much everything I can say about this film, so I'll just say one thing that I think we take for granted now.

Doing a Batman sequel and not putting "Batman" in the title is b*lls on a filmmaker. The best part was seeing how beautifully that paid off in the end.

Our faith was rewarded.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I remember seeing the title for the first time and being shocked Batman wasn't in it. But oh man, that name has become iconic now. Wouldn't have it any other way! A testament to Nolans creative vision and risks he took. And it ALL paid off.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember seeing the title for the first time and being shocked Batman wasn't in it. But oh man, that name has become iconic now. Wouldn't have it any other way! A testament to Nolans creative vision and risks he took. And it ALL paid off.

Dude, I remember seeing it too and I immediately was like "yes". It told you absolutely nothing, yet absolutely everything at the same time at the type of movie they were aiming to make. You just knew it was going to be an epic ride.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Dude, I remember seeing it too and I immediately was like "yes". It told you absolutely nothing, yet absolutely everything at the same time at the type of movie they were aiming to make.

Exactly. It's interesting to look back and see how much this film took us all by surprise in pretty much every aspect. It's rare for a movie to exceed expectations like this.

 

[Rick190293]

Exactly. It's interesting to look back and see how much this film took us all by surprise in pretty much every aspect. It's rare for a movie to exceed expectations like this.

Completely agree. I have experienced other movies where the expectations were met too, IMO (Avengers, IW, Civil War), but none like this. EVERY minute paid off all the expectation with so many surprises that we just couldn't know what to expect next.
Still the best Batman movie ever, and, for me, the best comic book movie ever. And we've been so blessed after this trilogy, with Arkham games, Affleck's portrait (which was good despite the movies) and now Pattinson looking amazing. Bring it on!

 

[Awest66]

Happy Birthday to the movie that "changed things forever".

 

[shauner111]

Still think the ferries & Prewitt building stuff is where the movie takes a nosedive (ALL Nolan movies have third act problems). Luckily the final 10 minutes go out with a bang (in classic Nolan fashion). I don’t think it’s unbeatable.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I don't think it's impossible to beat, but it's been 13 years and nothing has really come close, in my mind. Even TDKR, which i loved, wasn't on the same level. I think it speaks volumes of the quality of TDK as a film, how to deliver on expectations and it's impact on the genre. Of course there's always potential for a bigger fish, but that hasn't happened. The movie with the most potential is Matt Reeves The Batman, but that's obviously impossible to determine because all we've seen is a 2 minute trailer. The director and cast is outstanding, and the trailer was incredible though so we'll see.

 

[shauner111]

All I’m gonna say is...the CBM genre doesn’t have many good films inside of it, so it’s not that difficult to stand out. TDK is good. But I’m sorry, it’s not a flawless masterpiece in my eyes. I’m almost 33 and I really don’t look at movies the same way I did when I was 19. Most of the dialogue in TDK is exposition or dinner speeches that seem really on the nose. People talk about Joker lacking subtlety...well...

There are plenty of things to love about TDK namely Ledger’s JOKER, the score, Bruce’s playboy act, the hammy Chechen, Michael Caine’s unrivalled dynamic with Christian Bale, the chase sequences with the bat-pod and of course the closing moments of the movie.

But whenever I watch it nowadays I find myself laughing at how bad most of the third act is (dialogue, editing and especially the performances from all the extras). I don’t think the Maggie/Rachel stuff really works and the chemistry isn’t there (not a new or unpopular opinion). The Two-Face stuff falls super flat and I never cared for the CG look since the reveal in the cinema. The Harvey scenes work better than the Two-Face scenes (which btw is just an angry heel version of Dent without the most interesting aspect: the split personality). Fights are painful to sit through and yes we’ve come a long way in cinematic hand to hand combat since 2008 so those scenes don’t age well. The sewer fight from Rises holds up a lot more. Oldman also makes SUPER weird choices in this movie. People criticize Tom Hardy but I can barely understand Gary in this film (he’s not like that in the other batman movies).

TDK’s script has some great zingers but if that’s the best screenplay then yikes. On one hand it deserves its spot at the top of the genre but on the other hand ppl absolutely overrate this movie. Just my honest opinion. It’s also a result of me not thinking too highly of Nolan’s style as much as I used to when I was 20.

 

[Filmfreak]

It's all subjective, I guess. Personally while I'm very much looking forward to the Matt Reeves Batman movie, nothing in the genre makes me as excited anymore as TDKR did because of TDK. The latter ticked so many boxes for me at the time, that I don't know if any movie in the genre will ever have a similar impact on a personal level. It's a combination of a number of things. The time it was released, my age, my slight fatigue with the superhero movies as of lately, favourite director, some of my all time favourite actors, tone, scope, everything just clicked perfectly.

 

[BatLobster]

Taking time on the film's anniversary to bash it. Shauner...

All kidding aside, it's fine, we grow and change, opinions can change, nothing wrong with that. I've never once made any sort of argument that TDK is a perfect film. Back in the days when people were bashing TDKR, I recall we'd often point out how TDK was guilty of a lot of the same types of things but people gave it a pass. I also just think....when you see a movie as many times as we've all seen TDK, of course you're gonna notice things and nitpick. It's like being in a long term relationship. I know pretty much every frame of the film. Lord knows I've sat around and picked my nits with it. And that's how it is for me with the whole trilogy, though I'm pretty sure I've seen TDK the most of all of them.

Personally though I have trouble faulting the story this movie tells. It tells arguably (and I would argue it), one of the great Batman stories, in any medium. It sums up the essence of the character in a way no Batman story before it had, IMO. Not in the comics, not in animation, not in the movies. It captures the Batman/Joker relationship amazingly and somehow manages to effectively sum up 80 years of history in their first encounter. And does so with an Oscar-winning performance. It is thematically super sharp, even if it's on the nose. Plenty of screenwriting gurus have analyzed it for its incredible storytelling efficiency and use of theme. If you spend too much time nitpicking the fight scenes or some cheesy extra acting, you can lose sight of all the damn strong, meaningful storytelling the movie is accomplishing while functioning as a super entertaining blockbuster.

For me though, personally speaking. I won't say that it's unbeatable as a Batman or a comic book movie. But I will say that I believe that it's probably unbeatable, for me, as an experience. And I think it's okay to accept that. I will never be 21 again, seeing a movie that was shot in IMAX on an IMAX screen for the first time again. Seeing The Joker for the first time on the big screen in 20 years, with that performance. The right time, the right elements. Perfect storm. I'm with @Filmfreak on that. It just checked so many boxes at once, included boxes I didn't even know I wanted checked. It was the purest example of what movies of this kind should be all about, IMO. It left me exhilarated, exhausted, fulfilled. I walked out of theater feeling like I'd be fine if they never made another Batman movie.

And it's a feeling I still carry with me to this day. I love the character, always have, and I love seeing new interpretations of it. I'm very excited for The Batman. But TDK (and the trilogy as a whole) just represents something a lot more than just a movie or even just a Batman movie for me. And that's the beauty of film, that subjective side we bring to it.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Taking time on the film's anniversary to bash it. Shauner...

All kidding aside, it's fine, we grow and change, opinions can change, nothing wrong with that. I've never once made any sort of argument that TDK is a perfect film. Back in the days when people were bashing TDKR, I recall we'd often point out how TDK was guilty of a lot of the same types of things but people gave it a pass. I also just think....when you see a movie as many times as we've all seen TDK, of course you're gonna notice things and nitpick. It's like being in a long term relationship. I know pretty much every frame of the film. Lord knows I've sat around and picked by nits with it. And that's how it is for me with the whole trilogy, though I'm pretty sure I've seen TDK the most of all of them.

Personally though I have trouble faulting the story this movie tells. It tells arguably (and I would argue it), one of the great Batman stories, in any medium. It sums up the essence of the character in a way no Batman story before it had, IMO. Not in the comics, not in animation, not in the movies. It captures the Batman/Joker relationship amazingly and somehow manages to effectively sum up 80 years of history in their first encounter. And does so with an Oscar-winning performance. It is thematically super sharp, even if it's on the nose. Plenty of screenwriting gurus have analyzed it for its incredible storytelling efficiency and use of theme. If you spend too much time nitpicking the fight scenes or some cheesy extra acting, you can lose sight of all the damn strong, meaningful storytelling the movie is accomplishing while functioning as a super entertaining blockbuster.

For me though, personally speaking. I won't say that it's unbeatable as a Batman or a comic book movie. But I will say that I believe that it's probably unbeatable, for me, as an experience. And I think it's okay to accept that. I will never be 21 again, seeing a movie that was shot in IMAX on an IMAX screen for the first time again. Seeing The Joker for the first time on the big screen in 20 years, with that performance. The right time, the right elements. Perfect storm. I'm with @Filmfreak on that. It just checked so many boxes at once, included boxes I didn't even know I wanted checked. It was the purest example of what movies of this kind should be all about, IMO. It left me exhilarated, exhausted, fulfilled. I walked out of theater feeling like I'd be fine if they never made another Batman movie.

And it's a feeling I still carry with me to this day. I love the character, always have, and I love seeing new interpretations of it. I'm very excited for The Batman. But TDK (and the trilogy as a whole) just represents something a lot more than just a movie or even just a Batman movie for me. And that's the beauty of film, that subjective side we bring to it.

Yup, couldn't have said it better myself. All in all, TDK was an experience for me, which is something you just don't get often. I do remember after the movie coming out, I had a passing thought that perhaps they shouldn't even use the Joker again because of how damn incredible he was in the movie. It gave us something that we weren't even expecting, despite all the hype surrounding it. I was pretty speechless after I left the movie because I was trying to take in all that I witnessed. It's not normal for a movie to be THIS good in the genre, and because of that, it also elevates it above the rest. It's not just the best comic book movie, but it's a GREAT movie. Most movies in this genre don't stick with me over a decade later. The Raimi movies have, and and boy do I love those, but TDK is something else. There's a reason that every time a big superhero movie is released it's compared to this one. It was more than a movie for me at that time, and if you were alive during that time, It was the main topic of discussion in pop culture after it's released. It's all I heard about in my high school classes that following fall, and it's a testament to what kind of event it was.

And on the film side of things, it's such a tight movie. Any film can be nitpicked, but a good movie is a good movie even with those nitpicks. I mean, this movie had best picture buzz at that time, even though it wasn't nominated. It was a cultural event, and every new comic book film owes something to TDK. The Batman included, which I'm positive Reeves would agree. Actually, I remember an interview with Sam Raimi back when he was gonna do S-M4 where he himself claimed TDK raised the bar too.

 

[BatLobster]

And on the film side of things, it's such a tight movie. Any film can be nitpicked, but a good movie is a good movie even with those nitpicks. I mean, this movie had best picture buzz at that time, even though it wasn't nominated. It was a cultural event, and every new comic book film owes something to TDK. The Batman included.

People's gripes about the last 30 minutes aside (I still like the climax a lot personally), I think it's an incredibly paced film. The way the dominos are lined up and fall in this film is so good. Constant setups and payoffs. Constant building tension. Ups and downs, victories and losses. Victories that turn into losses. Losses that turn into victories. No wasted moments. It's like a perfectly constructed rollercoaster ride.

It's a flippin' fantastic movie.

 

[The Joker]

I remember back in 2008/9 the naysayers were saying once the sting of Ledger's death dies down people will stop looking at the movie through sympathy goggles and see its not that good. Here we are 13 years later and its still the king of the CBM genre, and has influenced movies both inside and outside the CBM genre.

 

[Gothamsknight]

It's all subjective, I guess. Personally while I'm very much looking forward to the Matt Reeves Batman movie, nothing in the genre makes me as excited anymore as TDKR did because of TDK. The latter ticked so many boxes for me at the time, that I don't know if any movie in the genre will ever have a similar impact on a personal level. It's a combination of a number of things. The time it was released, my age, my slight fatigue with the superhero movies as of lately, favourite director, some of my all time favourite actors, tone, scope, everything just clicked perfectly.

I'm pretty burnt out on the comic book genre honestly, particularly the MCU. And TDKR still stands out as one of the best of the decade and even if it wasn't as incredible as TDK, I still found it so satisfying. Today, There's really only a few comic book films that I'm looking forward to and that select few are more director driven. Those are the only stories I'm interested in today. And I'd say Reeves The Batman is the only one I'm REALLY looking forward to. Nolans creative vision and WB's trust him in gave us something that didn't look like anything else in the genre before or since. It wasn't a cog in a machine, but a vision, with each entry being made as if it was the last. That's why each film in the trilogy can be looked as a good movie on it's own. Hopefully, WB have given Matt Reeves a similar amount of creative vision for what he wants to do. I do remember he walked when they weren't going to, so that's a good sign.

 

[shauner111]

Taking time on the film's anniversary to bash it. Shauner...

All kidding aside, it's fine, we grow and change, opinions can change, nothing wrong with that. I've never once made any sort of argument that TDK is a perfect film. Back in the days when people were bashing TDKR, I recall we'd often point out how TDK was guilty of a lot of the same types of things but people gave it a pass. I also just think....when you see a movie as many times as we've all seen TDK, of course you're gonna notice things and nitpick. It's like being in a long term relationship. I know pretty much every frame of the film. Lord knows I've sat around and picked my nits with it. And that's how it is for me with the whole trilogy, though I'm pretty sure I've seen TDK the most of all of them.

Personally though I have trouble faulting the story this movie tells. It tells arguably (and I would argue it), one of the great Batman stories, in any medium. It sums up the essence of the character in a way no Batman story before it had, IMO. Not in the comics, not in animation, not in the movies. It captures the Batman/Joker relationship amazingly and somehow manages to effectively sum up 80 years of history in their first encounter. And does so with an Oscar-winning performance. It is thematically super sharp, even if it's on the nose. Plenty of screenwriting gurus have analyzed it for its incredible storytelling efficiency and use of theme. If you spend too much time nitpicking the fight scenes or some cheesy extra acting, you can lose sight of all the damn strong, meaningful storytelling the movie is accomplishing while functioning as a super entertaining blockbuster.

For me though, personally speaking. I won't say that it's unbeatable as a Batman or a comic book movie. But I will say that I believe that it's probably unbeatable, for me, as an experience. And I think it's okay to accept that. I will never be 21 again, seeing a movie that was shot in IMAX on an IMAX screen for the first time again. Seeing The Joker for the first time on the big screen in 20 years, with that performance. The right time, the right elements. Perfect storm. I'm with @Filmfreak on that. It just checked so many boxes at once, included boxes I didn't even know I wanted checked. It was the purest example of what movies of this kind should be all about, IMO. It left me exhilarated, exhausted, fulfilled. I walked out of theater feeling like I'd be fine if they never made another Batman movie.

And it's a feeling I still carry with me to this day. I love the character, always have, and I love seeing new interpretations of it. I'm very excited for The Batman. But TDK (and the trilogy as a whole) just represents something a lot more than just a movie or even just a Batman movie for me. And that's the beauty of film, that subjective side we bring to it.

Well said. TDK’s theatrical experience probably won’t be topped. Not talking about excitement because I’m actually more excited for The Batman, but the experience of going to the cinema was just better in 2008 with the midnight screenings, ppl dressing up carefree. My first IMAX. I hated my 20’s though so I don’t have that same sentimental attachment to “being 21”. I get what you’re saying though.

I agree that it’s a very good story. Story has never been a problem for Nolan’s trilogy. I just don’t think the execution of that story was as good as ppl make it out to be. But that’s my problem with all Nolan movies. It’s beyond nitpicking a fight. They are legit problems that he has as a filmmaker and screenwriter. The Rachel stuff is a real issue in his movies (especially when you don’t care if she dies or not because the chemistry was never there within the casting and the work wasn’t put into the character enough. Andrea she is not!). Nolan’s focus on plot mechanics and shoving the themes down your throat go beyond nitpicking. It’s what I despise about his filmography, even if I still love to be dazzled by his strengths. TDK is no exception here.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember back in 2008/9 the naysayers were saying once the sting of Ledger's death dies down people will stop looking at the movie through sympathy goggles and see its not that good. Here we are 13 years later and its still the king of the CBM genre, and has influenced movies both inside and outside the CBM genre.

Yuppp. That's been pretty safely mythbusted at this point.

Well said. TDK’s theatrical experience probably won’t be topped. Not talking about excitement because I’m actually more excited for The Batman, but the experience of going to the cinema was just better in 2008 with the midnight screenings, ppl dressing up carefree. My first IMAX. I hated my 20’s though so I don’t have that same sentimental attachment to “being 21”. I get what you’re saying though.

I agree that it’s a very good story. Story has never been a problem for Nolan’s trilogy. I just don’t think the execution of that story was as good as ppl make it out to be. But that’s my problem with all Nolan movies. It’s beyond nitpicking a fight. They are legit problems that he has as a filmmaker and screenwriter. The Rachel stuff is a real issue in his movies (especially when you don’t care if she dies or not because the chemistry was never there within the casting and the work wasn’t put into the character enough. Andrea she is not!). Nolan’s focus on plot mechanics and shoving the themes down your throat go beyond nitpicking. It’s what I despise about his filmography, even if I still love to be dazzled by his strengths. TDK is no exception here.

It's all good. The hype/'experience' aspect is hugely subjective and personal. So that's cool if you're more excited for The Batman. That's great.

I don't mean to dismiss your criticisms as nitpicks. I guess what I meant to say is, I consider myself someone who's well aware of Nolan's tendencies and flaws as a filmmaker, but the strengths are so major and uniquely his for me that it really tips the scale for me. But if you feel differently, that's cool of course. His Batman movies definitely have his fingerprints (FINGUHPRINZZZ) all over them, so your mileage may vary depending on where you stand on him as a filmmaker.

Personally though, the film snob types (and comic book snobs) who have attacked him for years...meh. It's always kind of just revved my engine for him more, haha. Spielberg went through a similar thing for much his career. It's kind of what happens when you reach the top. Especially because Nolan was once an indie darling who "sold out". So a lot of the time that's where my defense of him is coming from. There have always been people trying to tear him down. But I think he's at a point where his accomplishments kind of speak for themselves and deserves more respect for all he's brought to film over the years than he often gets by certain 'types'.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I remember back in 2008/9 the naysayers were saying once the sting of Ledger's death dies down people will stop looking at the movie through sympathy goggles and see its not that good. Here we are 13 years later and its still the king of the CBM genre, and has influenced movies both inside and outside the CBM genre.

I remember seeing that too. Obviously that was complete nonsense haha.