The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - Part 154

[JackWhite]

I actually didn't mind the use of Gordon for the most part in TDKR. The only thing I felt was a missed opportunity is him having a mea culpa when he is "arrested" by the people of Gotham. And maybe a longer scene with him and Bruce in the hospital.

I really liked how Gordon had the close call with Bane in the sewers and nearly drowning to death. It really showed how with Batman being MIA, Gordon has to actually go into these really risky and dangerous situations that he wouldn't normally have to put himself in.

 

[shauner111]

I can't think of a better way to use Gordon in that story to be honest. I would love to hear some suggestions on how to make it better. No sarcasm from my end.

 

[BatLobster]

I don't think Gordon's role got diminished because of Blake, really. After all, they share a lot of screentime together. I think it was comparable to the size of his role in BB, relative to the size of both movies. His role was probably the most beefed up in TDK.

I enjoyed Gordon being the leader of the resistance. I love how he's his usual composed and reserved self even under the very bleakest of circumstances, but it's Foley no-showing that really pisses him off. Love that scene where he goes to his house and chews him out. I mean really, even when compared to BB Gordon has more "big" dramatic moments in TDKR. It's just that his TDK role was clearly the juiciest, and Oldman's best performance too out of three fantastic performances.

I missed the dynamic between Bats and Gordon, sure, but like Batman's appearances in the movie in general, it felt very meaningful when it happened.

 

[Brother Jack]

The only thing I think was a missed opportunity with Gordon was never getting to see him have to personally hunt down Batman. That moral dilemma was foreshadowed but never actually realized. But you'd have to rework the whole first half and Gordon's injury was essential to the story in several ways. It's the thing that solidifies Bane as a threat and brings Bruce out of his hermitage and back towards Batman. And it weakens the police even more than it already was under Foley's leadership, leading to Batman and Bane showing them up in big ways. Gordon's rash decision to order the whole police force underground was directly due to him getting hurt and seeing Bane's strength for himself.

 

[ThePhantasm]

He winds up essentially being the 'John Connor' of the film, aka the leader of the "resistance" group of the handful of free cops (a la No Man's Land) working from within the city to keep track of Bane's actions and the bomb's movements. In the finale, Gordon is instrumental in saving the city. In fact, without his knowledge of the bomb's movements and decoy trucks (and also without Gordon physically jamming the detonator signal against formidable odds), Batman would not have been able to save the city.

Gordon accomplishes very little. Sure, he tracks the trucks, but that's not much help as he's also duped by Miranda who knows he's tracking the trucks and gets them to switch the bomb's location. He basically finds the real bomb through luck. Sure, he accomplishes some stuff in the finale (mainly jamming the signal) but he's otherwise sidelined and kinda irrelevant in the film.

I found his supposed emotional arc unsatisfying. It seems to basically amount to a shift from "gee I wish Batman would come back, I'm paranoid" to "gee, there's a replacement Batman, whoopee!" His guilt over lying about Dent is never really resolved, that plotline just gets dropped.

While they were in short supply, the interactions between Batman and Gordon were effective, I thought, with the hospital scene being a stand-out. I also love Batman's return when he saves Gordon. "Light it up."

I don't deny they were effective. I wanted more of them.

 

[ThePhantasm]

The only thing I think was a missed opportunity with Gordon was never getting to see him have to personally hunt down Batman. That moral dilemma was foreshadowed but never actually realized. But you'd have to rework the whole first half and Gordon's injury was essential to the story in several ways. It's the thing that solidifies Bane as a threat and brings Bruce out of his hermitage and back towards Batman. And it weakens the police even more than it already was under Foley's leadership, leading to Batman and Bane showing them up in big ways. Gordon's rash decision to order the whole police force underground was directly due to him getting hurt and seeing Bane's strength for himself.

TDK's ending foreshadowed a lot of interesting things that never materialized in TDKR. That's a small part of why I find the third film so disappointing... it squanders and deflates the ending of TDK.

 

[Batsfan1]

TDK's ending foreshadowed a lot of interesting things that never materialized in TDKR. That's a small part of why I find the third film so disappointing... it squanders and deflates the ending of TDK.

What never materialized?

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

 

[BatLobster]

Personally, I think Gordon hunting Batman is one of those things that sounds cooler than it is. If Gordon actually thought Batman was guilty, and it was a scenario like the BTAS episode Over the Edge, that would be one thing. Or even if he wasn't sure and had his doubts, but had to do his job...that would be cool.

Gordon who's in on it, leading a wild goose chase and wasting everyone's time and valuable police manpower to hunt down the one guy he knows is the real hero? No thanks. It's an interesting thought, but it's not an actual plot point I'd want to see in a movie. The lie having a concrete result was a logical way to move the plot forward, if less sexy. Batman and Gordon acting out a big charade in front of the city on a nightly basis is not quite something I can envision both for the characters and for the plot of a movie. Also, if Gordon was contemplating resigning from the weight of the lie, I believe he would've resigned much sooner if he had to be actively hunting Batman.

 

[ThePhantasm]

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

Umm... thanks?

 

[Ryan]

TDK's ending foreshadowed a lot of interesting things that never materialized in TDKR. That's a small part of why I find the third film so disappointing... it squanders and deflates the ending of TDK.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Brother Jack]

Personally, I think Gordon hunting Batman is one of those things that sounds cooler than it is. If Gordon actually thought Batman was guilty, and it was a scenario like the BTAS episode Over the Edge, that would be one thing. Or even if he wasn't sure and had his doubts, but had to do his job...that would be cool.

Gordon who's in on it, leading a wild goose chase and wasting everyone's time and valuable police manpower to hunt down the one guy he knows is the real hero? No thanks. It's an interesting thought, but it's not an actual plot point I'd want to see in a movie. The lie having a concrete result was a logical way to move the plot forward, if less sexy. Batman and Gordon acting out a big charade in front of the city on a nightly basis is not quite something I can envision both for the characters and for the plot of a movie. Also, if Gordon was contemplating resigning from the weight of the lie, I believe he would've resigned much sooner if he had to be actively hunting Batman.

Fair points. But I was envisioning it as Batman's return after years of absence ala what actually happens in the movie. You're right in the sense that if Batman had just stuck around as in the open as he had been after the Two-Face murders there would be no lasting peace in the city, which was the macro reasoning for Batman's lie in the first place. So while the eight-year gap with the retirement may have seemed like an inorganic move after the end of Knight in hindsight it was the best choice they could've taken with all the directions the story could have gone.

 

[The Joker]

http://batman-news.com/2015/09/15/t...rage-into-the-the-dark-knight-batcave-photos/

If I was rich I would spend my money on things like that lol.

 

[titansupes]

Silly/lucky bastard.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

http://batman-news.com/2015/09/15/t...rage-into-the-the-dark-knight-batcave-photos/

If I was rich I would spend my money on things like that lol.

I hate him.

 

[BatLobster]

People are ridiculous and I love it.

On a sadder note, and I'm late to this news but if any of you were aware of Leonard Robinson, he was the guy who has for years visited sick kids in children's hospitals dressed as Batman. He tragically passed away in a car accident last month while he was checking the engine of his car (a Batmobile replica no less) on the highway.

RIP Lenny. Such a shame, he was making nothing but a positive impact on people's lives and would've been doing it for years to come. He is definitely one of those people that embodied the spirit of the character and in effect was Batman.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...d-sick-children-dies-batmobile-crash-maryland

From what I hear, someone took over the mantle so to speak and kept his remaining appointments, which is nice to know.

 

[The Shape]

Personally, I think Gordon hunting Batman is one of those things that sounds cooler than it is. If Gordon actually thought Batman was guilty, and it was a scenario like the BTAS episode Over the Edge, that would be one thing. Or even if he wasn't sure and had his doubts, but had to do his job...that would be cool.

Gordon who's in on it, leading a wild goose chase and wasting everyone's time and valuable police manpower to hunt down the one guy he knows is the real hero? No thanks. It's an interesting thought, but it's not an actual plot point I'd want to see in a movie. The lie having a concrete result was a logical way to move the plot forward, if less sexy. Batman and Gordon acting out a big charade in front of the city on a nightly basis is not quite something I can envision both for the characters and for the plot of a movie. Also, if Gordon was contemplating resigning from the weight of the lie, I believe he would've resigned much sooner if he had to be actively hunting Batman.

Very good points and I agree, for the most part.

I think the loose vision that many of us had for the sequel to TDK, especially after hearing it would be titled 'The Dark Knight Rises', was that Batman would be an outlaw in Gotham hunted by the police after taking the fall for Dent's murders (with Gordon still being his only secret ally). With the city turned against him and whatever new villain(s) threats he had to face, Batman would have had to fight to save the city again against all odds to ultimately be given redemption in the end.

I actually like that TDKR went in the complete opposite direction with its story, flipped the script on how everyone thought the film would start and end, and took a more literal approach to Batman's "rise" from the ashes, to to speak.

 

[shauner111]

Yup, and the big police chase that i saw in my head....happened. I thought it would be the prologue actually, that's the only thing that changed. But it still happened.

 

[Kane52630]

One of my favorite scenes of the trilogy.

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/129264946254/your-parents-death-was-not-your-fault-it-was

 

[The Joker]

The whole LOS training segments in Begins are gold. Great chemistry between Bale and Neeson. Really felt like mentor and student.

 

[BatLobster]

Bruce getting the gauntlets from the LOS/Ra's was such a cool idea. It was a nice way to get some Batman visual iconography sprinkled into the training scenes while still being 100% "ninja".

 

[JackWhite]

I love the look of unbridled rage in Bale's eyes after Ra's pushes him to the ground. Such an iconic scene from a great trilogy.

 

[AnneFan]

Personally, I think Gordon hunting Batman is one of those things that sounds cooler than it is. If Gordon actually thought Batman was guilty, and it was a scenario like the BTAS episode Over the Edge, that would be one thing. Or even if he wasn't sure and had his doubts, but had to do his job...that would be cool.

I think the time jump is largely responsible for the clash of moods people feel. We're told by Gordon Batman can "take it", and then next thing we see Bruce chilling in Wayne Manor as a recluse. I guess we could say Batman can "take it" because all the hate and anger over 'killing' Dent is directed at a symbol. It's like they're directing their fury at a ghost because nobody knows who Batman is. They just know what he looks like.

I think it makes plenty of sense for Batman to stay away from the streets for a while after TDK, avoiding police detection. And while he's away, the crime situation improves as the Dent Act is enforced. Meaning Batman doesn't have to return again anyway.

Bruce just didn't go and brood alone at Wayne Manor straight away either, based on this comment by Tatelia: "But a man who doesn't care about the world doesn't spend half his fortune on a plan to save it. And isn't so wounded when it fails that he goes into hiding."

 

[Reek]

Rub your chest... your arms will take care of themselves.

 

[Brother Jack]

The whole "will to act" sequence is my favorite in Begins. They were able to truncate Bruce's training to fit the story pacing while still making it feel epic.

A close second would be Batman's first appearance.

 

[Marvolo]

Rub your chest... your arms will take care of themselves.

Tho I really love this whole section of the film, that is some bad advice. Arms are more at risk in cold weather than the chest. In cold temperatures, the body restricts blood flow to the limbs to concentrate blood band heat in the torso to keep the organs functioning for as long as possible. This is one reason why tissue damage and frost bite happens more often and more quickly in toes and fingers.