The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[shauner111]

People's gripes about the last 30 minutes aside (I still like the climax a lot personally), I think it's an incredibly paced film. The way the dominos are lined up and fall in this film is so good. Constant setups and payoffs. Constant building tension. Ups and downs, victories and losses. Victories that turn into losses. Losses that turn into victories. No wasted moments. It's like a perfectly constructed rollercoaster ride.

It's a flippin' fantastic movie.

I’ll have to be the bummer again and disagree lol. I think the third act is horribly paced (up to the ferries it was a very well paced movie). I also don’t like the editing jumping from the ferries to whatever’s happening on the streets. I find it cuts off the momentum everytime they cut back to the boat.

 

[shauner111]

I also want to say that the second act is amazing, and all the Joker scenes ARE the best and most flawless scenes of the movie. So I do understand where folks are coming from when they say the rest of the movie is subpar when Joker isn’t on screen. It’s not that I necessarily agree with them but the problems that do arise always happen when they’re telling the story without Heath’s presence.

 

[BatLobster]

I’ll have to be the bummer again and disagree lol. I think the third act is horribly paced (up to the ferries it was a very well paced movie). I also don’t like the editing jumping from the ferries to whatever’s happening on the streets. I find it cuts off the momentum everytime they cut back to the boat.

To each their own! To me, Zimmer's score really powers that section of the movie and keeps it flowing tight. But I'm also a big fan of cross-cutting with parallel storylines in general. I also really like how the ferries adds this moral weight to everything that's going on. It's not just a race to stop people from dying, it's a fight to stop the city from having its soul ripped out. And love the idea that Batman is basing everything he's doing by placing his faith in the good in people. That is quintessential Batman to me. The "..we have to save Dent...I HAVE TO SAVE DENT!"...as Batman jumps off the roof and Zimmer's pounding Mollosus theme kicks in gets me...Every. Time.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The tension of this scene gets me EVERY time, specifically at 55 seconds in. That score!

 

[BatLobster]

The tension of this scene gets me EVERY time, specifically at 55 seconds in.

Dude, I was literally just about to post another clip from that channel. Bless that guy for uploading all those 4k clips lol. And yes, the score and tension of that moment is so good. Love that it's the one moment in the film where we see some hint of frustration from The Joker. Cause it's the one time he's been wrong.

Just was going to say I'm pretty sure I will never ever tire of watching this moment.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Dude, I was literally just about to post another clip from that channel. Bless that guy for uploading all those 4k clips lol. And yes, the score and tension of that moment is so good. Love that it's the one moment in the film where we see some hint of frustration from The Joker. Cause it's the one time he's been wrong.

Just was going to say I'm pretty sure I will never ever tire of watching this moment.

Oh yeah! The cinema I was at was laughing and applauding at this scene haha. Especially when the detonator jammed.

 

[Filmfreak]

Oh yeah! The cinema I was at was laughing and applauding at this scene haha. Especially when the detonator jammed.

Which was an unscripted moment, if I remember correctly?

 

[Drizzle]

I remember the summer of 2008 absolutely dragging until July 18th because of how much I was anticipating The Dark Knight. Thirteen years later and it naturally still holds up, thanks in large part to the stellar performances from the cast, particularly Ledger, Eckhart, Bale, Caine and Oldman as well as Wally Pfister's outstanding cinematography. To date, it's one of the few movies I've seen in a theater where I was bummed that it ended.

But whenever I watch it nowadays I find myself laughing at how bad most of the third act is (dialogue, editing and especially the performances from all the extras).

While I don't share the same disdain for the third act as you do, Nolan really has a talent for putting the strangest extras in his movies, whether it's extras who mug for the camera (like that one guy during Dent's press conference) and others that are clearly British and putting on a terrible American accent (Water department guy from Begins "The pressure, it's spiking!"). The worst of the bunch is the captain on the boat with the civilians with the absolute dumbest line in the TDK trilogy that he delivers with all the charisma of a sloth in a coma..."We're still here...that means they haven't killed us yet either."

 

[Gothamsknight]

Which was an unscripted moment, if I remember correctly?

Yes, it was

 

[shauner111]

While I don't share the same disdain for the third act as you do, Nolan really has a talent for putting the strangest extras in his movies, whether it's extras who mug for the camera (like that one guy during Dent's press conference) and others that are clearly British and putting on a terrible American accent (Water department guy from Begins "The pressure, it's spiking!"). The worst of the bunch is the captain on the boat with the civilians with the absolute dumbest line in the TDK trilogy that he delivers with all the charisma of a sloth in a coma..."We're still here...that means they haven't killed us yet either."

Lmao “why would they give us the detonator....to our owwwwn BOMMMB?”.

“Let’s put it to a vote!” - Will Ferrell impersonator #1

“He should TURN himself IN!” - Will Ferrell impersonator #2

“THOSE MEN HAAD THEIR CHAAAANCE!”
*whiny voice* “we don’t haaave tiiiiime for pen and paper” god I hate the ferry scenes with a passion

 

[Brother Jack]

The thing about TDK for me is the film is so venerated and has been so dissected and analyzed down to the microscopic level that there's practically nothing more to say about it that hasn't already been said a thousand times. It's cliche at this point to deem it the king of the cape flick, even though I would still agree that it is. That's why I find myself more drawn to discussing Rises; though perhaps not technically as good of a film, there's so much thematic meat on the bone that still feels unexplored in a lot of ways. I think it's a deeper film, fascinating despite and in some ways because of its blemishes.

By the way, TDK has closer to a Shakespearean 5-act structure than the traditional 3-act structure. It's not a perfect science, but after Rachel's death the film has two more big set-pieces that divide the remainder of the story between the business with the hospital and then the climax with the Pruitt building and the ferries. It's very condensed, but it's there to give room for Dent to become Two-Face and go on his killing spree.

 

[Gothamsknight]

TDKR is more relevant today than it was in 2012, and it certainly has more layers than people give it credit for.

 

[shauner111]

Rises is still my personal favourite.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

can't believe its been almost a decade

you all know I love the movie, I'm just not crazy about the 160 minute post credits scene

 

[The Joker]

Which was an unscripted moment, if I remember correctly?

I think Heath saved their butts there because this was a one off thing. They did not have spare buildings to blow up. They had to get it right first time. So Heath added in the whole fiddling with the detonator when the explosions temporarily stopped. You can see him jump a little when they start going off again. I don't think he was expecting it lol.

 

[BatLobster]

The thing about TDK for me is the film is so venerated and has been so dissected and analyzed down to the microscopic level that there's practically nothing more to say about it that hasn't already been said a thousand times. It's cliche at this point to deem it the king of the cape flick, even though I would still agree that it is. That's why I find myself more drawn to discussing Rises; though perhaps not technically as good of a film, there's so much thematic meat on the bone that still feels unexplored in a lot of ways. I think it's a deeper film, fascinating despite and in some ways because of its blemishes.

I do agree. I think people got so caught up comparing the movie unfavorably to its predecessor(s) and focusing on 'plot holes' that there was never enough discussion about what the film was and the themes it was grappling with. Or at the very least, a lot of the discussion seems to be reductionist. "I interpret the film was saying THIS, therefore bad." Not enough grappling with its nuances. You can't sum up that film with a bumper sticker 'message'. Like you said, a lot of meat on the bone there.

What Michael Mann says in that Fire Rises doc is true IMO. In some ways I don't think the movies have truly even gotten their due yet. TDK has, but I don't think the trilogy as a whole body of work necessarily has even been fully unpacked yet by a lot of people.

 

[Iceman]

Coming after TDK is a very difficult job. I know I enjoyed TDKR a lot more second time around when I was watching it more on its own merits rather than as the film immediately following TDK.

 

[Brother Jack]

Rises is still my personal favourite.

It might honestly be my favorite too. It's certainly the one that's most occupied my mind over the years. As a definite conclusion it does what very few superhero stories have ever done, in film, comics, or otherwise.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The sewer fight in the film is my favorite, but man the final fight on the stairs doesnt get enough credit. The music, the cinematography, and all the chaos around them is just so good. Bale and Hardy don't get enough credit either. And it's all very surreal too considering the past few years here in the USA.

 

[The Joker]

Coming after TDK is a very difficult job. I know I enjoyed TDKR a lot more second time around when I was watching it more on its own merits rather than as the film immediately following TDK.

Yeah that was a huge stigma TDKR had to deal with. Following in the footsteps of TDK. I mean it is natural to compare them as they are connected and continue a story, but at the end of the day you judge a movie on its own merits or lack thereof.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Any time I bring up TDKR to my brother or my friend, they say "Yeah it wasn't as good as TDK though". it's got a stigma sadly, which is a shame because it's a great conclusion to the trilogy and everything comes full circle. The prison escape alone still gives me chills. We began the trilogy with Bruce falling down the well and it ending with Bruce climbing out, so to speak. But TDK was so big, the comparisons are pretty much all that mattered to some.

 

[BatLobster]

That stairs shot with Batman anticipating Bane is one of my favorite shots in a Batman movie. "But the extras"...blah, blah...I don't care. That moment, with the music kicking in, is chill down your spine stuff. There's something so striking about seeing Batman in that type of contrasty daylight that hits different.

It might honestly be my favorite too. It's certainly the one that's most occupied my mind over the years. As a definite conclusion it does what very few superhero stories have ever done, in film, comics, or otherwise.

I have to echo that, to an extent.

TDK is still somewhat on a pedestal in my mind, partly because of that perfect subjective experience I had with it that I was talking about. And for all the obvious reasons that we know make it great.

But the emotional core of TDKR is an all-timer for me. The movie is...a lot of things. Huge, bombastic, epic, yes- silly at times, bleak, triumphant. Whatever one's feelings are on the film, you can't tell me it doesn't wrap up Bruce's story in an extremely emotionally satisfying way.

Even my friends who bash it begrudgingly acknowledge that the ending is absolutely amazing and gets them emotional every time haha.

 

[Drizzle]

I have often wondered if TDKR would have been less of a challenge to make had Ledger not passed away. My inclination is yes, because the Joker definitely would have been involved considering he was essentially the main attraction of TDK. That's not to say that Joker would have been the main villain of TDKR at all, but he did cast a large shadow. But I do give Tom Hardy a lot of credit for making Bane as memorable a villain as he was considering he had a tough act to follow.

 

[BatLobster]

I think that's part of the thing that wins me over on TDKR so much. It's a bit of an underdog. Nolan had an impossible task at the time. Sure, he got paid a ton to come back. Granted. But at that point, coming off TDK and Inception, he pretty much was in a position to do whatever he wanted. He could've walked away and let TDK be his mic drop on superheroes, which a lot of people thought he was going to do. Instead he chose to come back and finish the story that was started in Begins, and do something very different from TDK, which had essentially already become the most iconic film of the decade. Without the actor who primarily made that film so iconic. It was b*llsy.

I mean...I knew people who were casual fans and went into Rises only having seen TDK. They never even saw Begins, despite me urging them to countless times haha. That's how much huger a pop culture presence TDK had over Begins. Yet Rises goes all-in on picking up threads from that story. Some people may feel that it's weak and derivative, but personally, I absolutely love that and the way it bookends the trilogy. It gives a new resonance to a lot of moments in Begins and allows the three films to finally start to gel into a bigger overarching narrative.

I even recall an interview at the time where Nolan acknowledges that he's not sure if people are going to like it better than the last one, but he gave it everything he had. Something to that effect. That's pretty rare, cause Nolan tends to sell whatever project he's currently doing as the best thing he's capable of delivering at the time. I really wish I could find it, cause it was a rare acknowledgment that he kind of knew and accepted that the movie wasn't likely going to be able to fully escape TDK's shadow no matter how hard he tried to do something bold and different with it and he just had to do his best to tell a story he felt was worth telling.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I still don't get how anybody could have gone into TDKR thinking it would eclipse TDK. I mean, usually with films like TDK, you don't go any higher than that. I was expecting a great final installment, and that's what I got. and honestly, it's still by far the best 3rd film in a superhero trilogy (sorry civil war). That in and of itself is a big accomplishment. Return of the Jedi didn't top Empire, Godfather part 3 didn't top part 2, terminator 3....well, that shouldn't even be mentioned tbh.