The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - Part 151

[The Joker]

I would say Bale a lot more so than Keaton. There's not much meat to Keaton's portrayal. He feels like a side character in both of his movies, especially in Batman Returns. Nine times out of ten when anyone praises Keaton it's because of the voice and his eyes, and they post a couple of screenshots where he looks cool in shadows. Basically shallow stuff like in Beast's post.

While I enjoy Keaton's Batman his character barely scratched the surface of both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Especially the latter. Whereas Bale's explored both and really got to the soul of it. In Batman Begins alone it did more with the character than Burton did in two whole movies. Heck I feel Schumacher delved more into Batman in Batman Forever than Burton did. The episode, I am the Night, in BTAS did more with him than Burton did.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

That's a critique of the writing moreso than the actor, so I still stand by my statement. With what they had to work with... BOTH actors fully did the character proud.

For example, one critique I would throw at Bale's Batman was that he practically had no atmosphere surrounding him (excluding parts of Begins), but that's a fault of Nolan and Pfister and should never reflect on Bale.

I just feel that both actors... whatever the outside circumstances... got into those suits and did the character justice.

 

[The Joker]

I don't necessarily agree with that, because in the hands of a lesser actor it can fall flat no matter how good the material is. You need a great actor to sell it.

I agree Keaton did the best with what he had, but his Batman just did not tick enough of the necessary boxes. Bale had a lot more deeper and emotionally complex material to work with and challenge him and he sold it. Which is why I think Bale did a lot more justice to the character. He gave us a lot more and did it well.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Hmm... You make a good point, but it is true to say that while any actor can elevate a script, there will always be limitations. Keaton was confined by his scripts and didn't get the chance to explore the many facets of the character.

I don't know, while I agree Bale had more fat to chew on, resulting in more emotional highlights... it's Keaton that made the more indelible impression on me with the character.

 

[Beast]

Well, i never had to listen to any of my friends make fun of Keaton, so that´s a big point to him. Bale simply didn´t hit the right notes, and he had great material to work with. That voice is pathetic. It is as simple as that. Keaton projected the kind of mysticism that i always associated with Batman. He really looks like a mysterious creature in the first film. Bale´s Batman looks like a cop in a suit.

"WHERE´S THE TRIGGER??!!! WHERE IS IT???? WHERE´S THE TRIGGER? GRRAGRRAGRRRAA GRRAA"

Keaton sounded freaking cool everytime he opened his mouth. Batman is supposed to be cool. I want my Batman to be cool. I don´t want Batman to sound like a ******. DA TRIGGER!!!GRAAGRRRAGRAAA! WHERE IS ITTTT???????????"



Even as Bruce Wayne, Bale did nothing fantastic, even though he was a better Bruce Wayne than Keaton.

 

[Snow Queen]

Keaton does nothing for me personally. Glad he works for other people but not for me. Bale's was much much better, in my opinion.

 

[shauner111]

Well, i never had to listen to any of my friends make fun of Keaton, so that´s a big point to him. Bale simply didn´t hit the right notes, and he had great material to work with. That voice is pathetic. It is as simple as that. Keaton projected the kind of mysticism that i always associated with Batman. He really looks like a mysterious creature in the first film. Bale´s Batman looks like a cop in a suit.

"WHERE´S THE TRIGGER??!!! WHERE IS IT???? WHERE´S THE TRIGGER? GRRAGRRAGRRRAA GRRAA"

Keaton sounded freaking cool everytime he opened his mouth. Batman is supposed to be cool. I want my Batman to be cool. I don´t want Batman to sound like a ******. DA TRIGGER!!!GRAAGRRRAGRAAA! WHERE IS ITTTT???????????"



Even as Bruce Wayne, Bale did nothing fantastic, even though he was a better Bruce Wayne than Keaton.

Bale did nothing fantastic as Bruce, OK, but then..what do you want Bruce to be like?

Batman looked like a cop in a suit? Uhh no.

 

[AnneFan]

Keaton was the shadowy outsider. The guy who threw a party yet nobody knew what he looked like. Thus he didn't really have a social Bruce aspect to play. Batman was his life. Bale had the playboy facade, and his Bruce died with Gotham thinking he was nothing but a party boy. He didn't want to be Batman forever and he eventually handed over the reigns. There are clear differences between the two. While I prefer Bale's characterisation and performance, I agree with Pfeiffer-Pfan in that both did very well with the material given.

 

[BatLobster]

I've got nothing but love for Keaton, but inevitably Bale feels more like a more of a total package.

It's also really annoying that people always point to the trigger scene as if it's the perfect example of Bale's voice. First of all, Bale's voice is different all from scene to scene through the trilogy. Secondly it was one climactic scene where the circumstances were as extreme as you could get. Gotham was about to get nuked and Batman was desperate. I loved that part, it was so cathartic to see Bruce get to unleash some fury as he beat the crap out of Bane, especially after all Bruce had been through in the movie.

 

[The Joker]

The Mods just told me Beast has two other regular usernames, Bruce Begins and Kal-El.9859. So is Beast like your account where you stir it up?

 

[BatLobster]

Ha yeah, that's pretty weird. Could've sworn Bruce Begins was a fairly agreeable guy.

What if all of them are milost?

 

[Snow Queen]

Ha yeah, that's pretty weird. Could've sworn Bruce Begins was a fairly agreeable guy.

What if all of them are milost?

Aren't we all Milost?

 

[Beast]

I don´t think it matter if it is one scene, two scenes or three scenes. Bale has plenty of scenes where he sounds absolutely awful. The fact that one made me cringe several and the other didn´t is more than enough for me to consider Keaton the best Batman.

Bale had more to play with. But that has nothing to do with what i´m talking about. That has to do with the writing.

The Mods just told me Beast has two other regular usernames, Bruce Begins and Kal-El.9859. So is Beast like your account where you stir it up?

That´s not true at all and you shouldn´t accuse people without proof. Even if we shared the same IP(wich i doubt), it could just be the same proxy. Plenty of people use proxies and at my University some computers are set to use proxies by default. So don´t judge.

 

[The Shape]

I feel that Keaton's character scratched the surface of Bruce/Batman in B89 as much as Bale's did in any of the Nolan films. It was just presented to the audience in a very different way that didn't require the character to have as much screentime or dialogue.

I do agree, however, that Keaton's Batman got screwed in Batman Returns and he was essentially relegated to side-character status.

 

[The Shape]

I´m not gonna miss Bale that much. He is a fine Bruce Wayne, but there´s nothing really that special about him as Batman. He is actually wasting his talent by playing Batman. Playing Batman or Bruce Wayne isn´t really that challenging. Bale´s voice in the last two movies was cringe worthy, and i don´t think i should be embarrassed while watching Batman talk. It should sound cool, not stupid.

That look Keaton gives, in the last act, when The Joker says "shall we dance?", is 10 times more intense and intimidating than anything Bale does in TDK trilogy.

Well, i never had to listen to any of my friends make fun of Keaton, so that´s a big point to him. Bale simply didn´t hit the right notes, and he had great material to work with. That voice is pathetic. It is as simple as that. Keaton projected the kind of mysticism that i always associated with Batman. He really looks like a mysterious creature in the first film. Bale´s Batman looks like a cop in a suit.

"WHERE´S THE TRIGGER??!!! WHERE IS IT???? WHERE´S THE TRIGGER? GRRAGRRAGRRRAA GRRAA"

Keaton sounded freaking cool everytime he opened his mouth. Batman is supposed to be cool. I want my Batman to be cool. I don´t want Batman to sound like a ******. DA TRIGGER!!!GRAAGRRRAGRAAA! WHERE IS ITTTT???????????"



Even as Bruce Wayne, Bale did nothing fantastic, even though he was a better Bruce Wayne than Keaton.

 

[Beast]

[YT]3m5xGvkI2K8[/YT]

 

[Young Superman]

Love this pic.

 

[The Joker]

That´s not true at all and you shouldn´t accuse people without proof. Even if we shared the same IP(wich i doubt), it could just be the same proxy. Plenty of people use proxies and at my University some computers are set to use proxies by default. So don´t judge.

Yes it is true. One of the administrators checked your profile and said your I.P. is a match for those two names. So I'm not accusing you without proof. That is my proof.

You got caught. The ones that come in here criticizing like you nearly always do have something to hide. Though they're usually former banned users. They said the only reason you're not banned is because those two other names you have are not banned user names. If you think I'm lying then feel free to PM one and ask yourself.

 

[Beast]

Yes it is true. One of the administrators checked your profile and said your I.P. is a match for those two names. So I'm not accusing you without proof. That is my proof.

You got caught. They said the only reason you're not banned is because those two names are not banned user names. If you think I'm lying then feel free to PM one and ask yourself.

Maybe you just don´t understand the concept of proxy. A single ip can be shared by a huge number of people. Several people can also share the same network by being in the same location. Same street, same school, same workplace, etc. So no, you have no proof of anything, since an ip can be shared by many people. Sometimes, even a computer is shared by many people. Unless you´re seeing me, wich you aren´t, you don´t know who i am and you don´t know if i use any other username.

 

[The Shape]

Yes it is true. One of the administrators checked your profile and said your I.P. is a match for those two names. So I'm not accusing you without proof. That is my proof.

You got caught. The ones that come in here criticizing like you nearly always do have something to hide. Though they're usually former banned users. They said the only reason you're not banned is because those two other names you have are not banned user names. If you think I'm lying then feel free to PM one and ask yourself.

We're allowed to have up to 3 usernames on the Hype? That's total BS.





*scrambles to create 'ManOfMurder' and 'GalGadotsSkinny' usernames*

 

[The Joker]

Maybe you just don´t understand the concept of proxy. A single ip can be shared by a huge number of people. Several people can also share the same network by being in the same location. Same street, same school, same workplace, etc. So no, you have no proof of anything, since an ip can be shared by many people. Sometimes, even a computer is shared by many people. Unless you´re seeing me, wich you aren´t, you don´t know who i am and you don´t know if i use any other username.

Don't be absurd. If checking an I.P. was so unreliable to identify anyone then people would not be checked by that method and formerly banned users caught out and banned on the basis of their IP's matching. If your IP had matched any former banned user when they checked you out then you wouldn't be here now making this flimsy argument to me.

I know who you are. You don't need to admit to it. I posted the Admin findings here to give everyone else a heads up about who you really are.

 

[The Shape]

Maybe you just don´t understand the concept of proxy. A single ip can be shared by a huge number of people. Several people can also share the same network by being in the same location. Same street, same school, same workplace, etc. So no, you have no proof of anything, since an ip can be shared by many people. Sometimes, even a computer is shared by many people. Unless you´re seeing me, wich you aren´t, you don´t know who i am and you don´t know if i use any other username.

Just give it up dude, nobody cares.

 

[Beast]

Don't be absurd. If checking an I.P. was so unreliable to identify anyone then people would not be checked by that method and formerly banned users caught out and banned on the basis of their IP's matching. If your IP had matched any former banned user when they checked you out then you wouldn't be here now making this flimsy argument to me.

I´m not being absurd. I´m telling you that an ip can be used by a huge number of people, wich it can. So i´m right, you´re wrong. It doesn´t really matter if you choose to ignore the facts. I´m just telling you how it is. Deal with it, or don´t. Do whatever makes you feel more rewarded.

 

[Shikamaru]

So I was over in the Marvel boards, where we briefly discussed Bruce in TDK (related to whether or not he had a character arc). To which I gave a brief explanation, to which someone replied.

I just wanted to comment on this one thing, this isn't what TDK is about, at all. The very fact that at the end of the film he quits being Batman is pretty much the opposite of 'Learning that Batman is who he is and there is no escape from it' He quits because the organized crime was stopped and his girlfriend died and he was all sad about that.

I was hoping with the approaching BvS and that fact that it has been 6 years since TDK came out, that all the 15-year-old emo *****es that loved that movie would've grown up and realized its nothing special at all and spits in the face of a lot of history and tone of the characters (Two-Face anyone?). Nolan didn't like Batman or comic books, he wanted to tell his pretentious little story and that was it. Heath was great as the Joker, but even that was blown out of proportion.

I guess we all have to suffer the Nolanite syndrome for a few more years at least. Maybe one day people will understand that 'super-serious' and 'grimdark' don't necessarily equate to 'good' and 'intellectual'. Its ok to laugh and be taken seriously at the same time.

Granted his overall opinion is still a small minority, since most people still love the Nolan films (and I don't see that changing anytime soon). But at least his first paragraph could be an indication to what milost and I were fearing the most. That as time goes on and the films sink in, TDK and TDKR would get lumped in together and it would tarnish TDK to an extent, maybe not with the GA then at least in the fan community.

And while some of you would list Star Wars and Indiana Jones as examples of where that didn't happen, I think there's two major differences between them and TDKT. First, there's about a 2-decade gap between the first trilogies and the prequels/Crystal Skull. They can be viewed more stand-alone whereas Rises came out just a few years after and was in many ways "TDK Part 2" in its marketing. Begins was a sleeper hit, TDK is the film that really took the franchise off. Second, due to the rise of TV and Hollywood training viewers more and more to think in franchises, I feel people have even more of a boxset mentality in the present than the past, for better or worse. Case in point, Marvel's just revealed a three-act trilogy of their own, except with each "phase" of films representing one part as opposed to an individual film per part.

 

[shauner111]

[YT]3m5xGvkI2K8[/YT]

Clever...

Let's take a scene from Keaton and then take a scene where Bale's Batman is supposed to be out of breath. Great comparison.

We can always take Keaton's "im batman" - which i dig. And then compare it to Bale's, which i think is a way better delivery.

Maybe you just don´t understand the concept of proxy. A single ip can be shared by a huge number of people. Several people can also share the same network by being in the same location. Same street, same school, same workplace, etc. So no, you have no proof of anything, since an ip can be shared by many people. Sometimes, even a computer is shared by many people. Unless you´re seeing me, wich you aren´t, you don´t know who i am and you don´t know if i use any other username.

Maybe you just need to grow up. You're caught, who cares.