The Thomas Haden Church/Sandman Thread

[AsianHulk]

you think that Sandman is one of villain to Spidey movie and comics.even the Hulk and Fantastic Four.Sandman could smashed by the Hulk.

 

[Mr Jide]

It takes a special man to marry a porn star.

 

[Juggernaut33]

It takes a special man to marry a porn star.

She is a human being, you know, plus she is not doing porn movies anymore.

 

[Syncos]

I thought Church did great in the role of Sandman, but I hated how useless of a character he was. He was just added as a obstacle for spiderman to loose against without the symbiote, and to win against with it. To try and make him a valued character, they even tied him to Bens death. Ridiculous.

 

[FNSpidey]

I thought Church did great in the role of Sandman, but I hated how useless of a character he was. He was just added as a obstacle for spiderman to loose against without the symbiote, and to win against with it. To try and make him a valued character, they even tied him to Bens death. Ridiculous.

Spidey didn't "lose" against Sandman. He had to save a couple of innocent policemen, so Sandman managed to get away. If that's losing, then Spidey has lost to all of his villains multiple times.

And winning against him in the black suit doesn't have anything to do with it. He didn't simply win, he tried to kill him. That's why Sandman's there and that's why he's tied to Ben's death. So Spider-man can feel what it's like to have a reason to seriously hate someone and desperately want revenge (like Venom and Harry). In Raimi's words, to make him see less black and white, less "him and the bad guys". Under the right circumstances, he's not very different than the "bad guys".

But Pete's the hero, so in the end he's able to forgive Marko and not go on living in hatred, which would eventually destroy him. Venom is the opposite of Spider-man, so refusing to let go of his hatred, he destroys himself.

So Sandman's indeed necessary for the story. As is Venom, to demonstrate what Peter could've become. As is Harry, to finally resolve his storyline. And all of them fit nicely under the theme of revenge and forgiveness.

Plus, in the process, we get three great villains and Symbiote Spider-man. An excellent combination of movie themes and comic book material.

 

[Qwerty©]

I thought Church did great in the role of Sandman, but I hated how useless of a character he was. He was just added as a obstacle for spiderman to loose against without the symbiote, and to win against with it. To try and make him a valued character, they even tied him to Bens death. Ridiculous.

The character was much, much more than that.

He was there to show the futility of revenge, and that ties into the whole message of the movie.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Spidey didn't "lose" against Sandman. He had to save a couple of innocent policemen, so Sandman managed to get away. If that's losing, then Spidey has lost to all of his villains multiple times.

And winning against him in the black suit doesn't have anything to do with it. He didn't simply win, he tried to kill him. That's why Sandman's there and that's why he's tied to Ben's death. So Spider-man can feel what it's like to have a reason to seriously hate someone and desperately want revenge (like Venom and Harry). In Raimi's words, to make him see less black and white, less "him and the bad guys". Under the right circumstances, he's not very different than the "bad guys".

But Pete's the hero, so in the end he's able to forgive Marko and not go on living in hatred, which would eventually destroy him. Venom is the opposite of Spider-man, so refusing to let go of his hatred, he destroys himself.

So Sandman's indeed necessary for the story. As is Venom, to demonstrate what Peter could've become. As is Harry, to finally resolve his storyline. And all of them fit nicely under the theme of revenge and forgiveness.

Plus, in the process, we get three great villains and Symbiote Spider-man. An excellent combination of movie themes and comic book material.:UP:

Exactly, Sandman defenitley was needed for the Film. think of it this way, Peter wanted revenge on Sandmn and when he got the Symbiote he defeaated him but not for long. Now after Peter rips the Symbiote off himself in the Belltower, he's back to normal. At the end of the Battel royal Peter says to Sandman "we always have a choice". But because Sandman explained what really happened Peter realizes that we all have done terrible things but we have to forgive eachother which is why Peter forgives Sandman. It was such a great ending of the Battel Royal IMO. And forgivness is one of the resons Sandman was needed.

 

[Mr Jide]

She is a human being, you know, plus she is not doing porn movies anymore.

Seriously?!?!?!?

So what if she aint doing them anymore, the fact is, she did it, got umped by loads of guys for years, my guess is, she's a little more than worn if you know what I mean.
Hell, I had some of her movies a couple years back but like I said, when you marry into the porn industry and you have no part in it, it takes something special.

 

[TLH]

I too wished The Armor car fight / case was a little longer because it was like a classic Spidey vs. Sandy fight pulled striaght out from The pages of The Comic books. However I realized that if it was longer what else could spidey do since Sandy would just be counter attacking his every move .

And as for The Underground train tunnel / Sewer Drain fight between Black Symbiote Spider-Man vs. Sandman, I loved that too and I know for a fact it was cut short . I hope Sony release the director's cut . I want to see the whole fight .

You're right. I found the editting splice where a part is missing. When they are fighting in between the two subway trains and Spidey punches Sandman and he gets hit in the face by the train, there is a rough transition from that to them falling over the tracks. Watch it carefully...if I'm seeing correctly it didn't make any sense for them to go from in between two sets of tracks to falling over the edge. Plus, there was that scene in the trailer where Spidey whacks Sandman with a pole.

 

[Kaizer104]

You're right. I found the editting splice where a part is missing. When they are fighting in between the two subway trains and Spidey punches Sandman and he gets hit in the face by the train, there is a rough transition from that to them falling over the tracks. Watch it carefully...if I'm seeing correctly it didn't make any sense for them to go from in between two sets of tracks to falling over the edge. Plus, there was that scene in the trailer where Spidey whacks Sandman with a pole.

I think there's another one as well. After Spider-Man breaks the water pipe and it flushes out at Sandman, he randomly swings in towards the camera. Afterwards, it shows he's still sitting on that same pipe, watching Sandman be washed away.

 

[FNSpidey]

You're right. I found the editting splice where a part is missing. When they are fighting in between the two subway trains and Spidey punches Sandman and he gets hit in the face by the train, there is a rough transition from that to them falling over the tracks. Watch it carefully...if I'm seeing correctly it didn't make any sense for them to go from in between two sets of tracks to falling over the edge. Plus, there was that scene in the trailer where Spidey whacks Sandman with a pole.

Not really. After Spidey punches Sandman (in slow motion) and Sandy turns his head, an oncoming train hits him again, causing him to fall onto Spidey and both of them over the edge. You're right about the shot with the pole, though.

I think there's another one as well. After Spider-Man breaks the water pipe and it flushes out at Sandman, he randomly swings in towards the camera. Afterwards, it shows he's still sitting on that same pipe, watching Sandman be washed away.

Again, we never see where Spidey sits after swinging away. To me it looked like he got out of the water's way and landed near one of the side walls to watch Sandman perish.

I'm not saying there aren't shots missing, just that the current editing doesn't really have any problems.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Sandman

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/toyfare/005307780.cfm

 

[Red]

Anyone else notice the chain around his neck?

Does it matter that he has a chain around his neck?

Yes it may have some importance in the story. Perhapes it holds a picture of his daughter.

Bumped for an "I told you so"

 

[Victarion]

I thought Church did great in the role of Sandman, but I hated how useless of a character he was. He was just added as a obstacle for spiderman to loose against without the symbiote, and to win against with it. To try and make him a valued character, they even tied him to Bens death. Ridiculous.

No, Sandman was there to add to the story. Let me explain: Harry went after Peter without knowing the entire story of how his father died-that Spider-Man didn't really kill the Green Goblin, but that Norman caused his own death. Sandman would've been inthe same position as Peter, and Peter in the same position as Harry.

If I've confused you, then maybe someone else here could explain. So it was really the symbiote that was superfluous here. Peter would've danced with his darkside without need of the symbiote. I kinda think the story would've been more powerful that way.

---Morzan

 

[XXTBWCXX]

I have many opinions about Spider-Man 3 and still thinking that Sandman's canon wasn't needed and it put a mockery into the character, but the best scene in the movie would have to be Flint Marko turning into Sandman. It was, to me, to most powerful and emotional scene in the whole movie and I give kudos to Thomas Haden Church.

 

[Darkness Falls]

Sandman was very important to the story
as many have said before it taught peter about revenge and forgiveness

I give kudos to Thomas Haden Church
for his preformance especially in the forgiveness scene and when he first becomes sand

Brilliant

 

[Otto Octavius]

Sandman

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/toyfare/005307780.cfm

Wow, those look cool

 

[Spade]

Sandman was very important to the story
as many have said before it taught peter about revenge and forgiveness

I give kudos to Thomas Haden Church
for his preformance especially in the forgiveness scene and when he first becomes sand

Brilliant

I completely disagree. His long, drawn-out rivalry with Harry did that well enough without the film having to go back to SM1 so as to make Flint relevant to SM3. Haden Church's acting in this movie didn't help either. If he wasn't stoic, he was crying. It was like they decided that his sole significance to the story was to emote and hoped the audience filled in the background gap themselves.

 

[omid17]

sandman's charactor was not entertaining at all

 

[The Joker]

I completely disagree. His long, drawn-out rivalry with Harry did that well enough without the film having to go back to SM1 so as to make Flint relevant to SM3.

Agreed!

The Uncle Ben connection was SO contrived and stupid.

Haden Church's acting in this movie didn't help either. If he wasn't stoic, he was crying. It was like they decided that his sole significance to the story was to emote and hoped the audience filled in the background gap themselves.

Church is a good actor, he just didn't get to show it much, IMO. His character spent most of the time in CGI form. Sand storms, sand monsters etc.

Church didn't get much of a chance to put his acting skills to use. His scenes were so brief, too. Very little dialogue.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

(Regarding the addition of the Sandman character in the franchise) : Why?
Just let it in pause, it's the first steps of a philosophical question

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Sandman was very important to the story
as many have said before it taught peter about revenge and forgiveness

I give kudos to Thomas Haden Church
for his preformance especially in the forgiveness scene and when he first becomes sand

Brilliant

Agreed, Sandman was great in the film and I felt bad for him when he started crying at the end. Very emotional scene.

 

[Blader5489]

If he wasn't stoic, he was crying. It was like they decided that his sole significance to the story was to emote and hoped the audience filled in the background gap themselves.

Actors emoting? What madness!

Church is a good actor, he just didn't get to show it much, IMO. His character spent most of the time in CGI form. Sand storms, sand monsters etc.

Just in the battle royale. He spent more time in "human form" than anything else.

 

[The Joker]

Just in the battle royale.

And the sand truck. In fact, he had no dialogue in that scene at all. He walks down the street, runs from the Cops, and then Church isn't seen again until inside the armoured car.

He spent more time in "human form" than anything else.

In the scenes he was, he had little to no dialogue. His two "big" scenes were with his family, and confessing to Peter.

Church was wasted in this movie, IMO. He had no memorable villain lines, he wasn't menacing in any way.

"I don't want to hurt you. Leave now". Boring.

 

[Blader5489]

And the sand truck.

I forgot about that, but it was, what, five seconds? Not a big deal.

he wasn't menacing in any way.

I think that was the point.