Apocalypse The Timeline

[CyclopsSummers]

Lol but he was K.O.
So new timeline conserves Logan and Victor engaging in WWI and WWII but not their involve in vietnam war

 

[Super Jim]

^ Not sure that that could be said. They could have been involved in Vietnam from anytime between the 1950's (when the "war" began) until 1973, when the war concluded for the US.

 

[DigificWriter]

Since Singer and Co. have not yet provided a definitive answer as to whether or not the original timeline still exists or has been completely overridden, I've decided to treat things just as the Star Trek franchise does, with the reality comprising events from First Class, DoFP, Origins: Wolverine, X-Men, X2, The Last Stand, and The Wolverine comprising "Universe A" and the reality comprising everything from Apocalypse on comprising "Universe B".

That preserves the integrity of the franchise as a whole while also accounting for what Singer and Co. chose to do in pulling a "Star Trek 2009" with the events of DoFP.

 

[Super Jim]

^ Actually, wouldn't Universe A be everything we saw/know from Origins (Wolvie's history), and Apocalypse's pyramid building, First Class, X1 through X3 and The Wolverine;

while Universe B is all of the same stuff up until 1973, with everything after being (possibly) different, including the 1983 Apocalypse movie, and the 2023 Wolvie wake-up scene? We can also assume that most of the characters that were in these now other timeline movies were sill born around the same time that they were previously. For example, Scott, Jean, Ororo and Kurt we're all born back in the 60's, so they are still the same; while Colossus, Kitty, Bobby and Rogue were all seen in that 2023 Wolvie wake-up scene, and appeared to be the same (Rogue was still wearing her gloves and had the white hair streak).

The point is that yes, there are two timeline, but they diverged in 1973, though many, of not most that happened in the OT likely still happen(ed).

Major point is that although some things that we saw in Origins, X1, X2, Last Stand and The Wolverine may now have not happened in this new timeline; at the same time some, or even most of them may have.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I included DoFP in "Universe A" because it seems to clearly be the 'divergence point' for "Universe B", at least if we're assuming that the Star Trek 2009 model can be applied to it in full (which does seem to be the case), but you could easily make the argument that it does in fact belong to "Universe B" rather than "Universe A".

 

[Super Jim]

^ You're right in that the moment Wolverine wakes up it's now a new timeline...

 

[DigificWriter]

Just based on what I've seen, I'd argue that the specific divergence point is the moment Kitty sends him back in time.

Either way, though, DoFP would be sequentially last as far as chronology goes, giving you the following orders:
Order #1
Universe A:
First Class
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men
X2
Last Stand
The Wolverine
DoFP

Universe B:
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Gambit

Order #2
Universe A:
First Class
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men
X2
Last Stand
The Wolverine

Universe B:
DoFP
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Gambit

 

[Super Jim]

Just based on what I've seen, I'd argue that the specific divergence point is the moment Kitty sends him back in time.

Either way, though, DoFP would be sequentially last as far as chronology goes, giving you the following orders:
Order #1
Universe A:
First Class
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men
X2
Last Stand
The Wolverine
DoFP

Universe B:
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Gambit

Order #2
Universe A:
First Class
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men
X2
Last Stand
The Wolverine

Universe B:
DoFP
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Gambit

Huh?

That doesn't make any sense. The divergence doesn't happen in 2023, which is when Kitty sends Wolverine's mind back in time. It happens in the past in 1973 from the moment Wolverine's older mind takes control (switches places with, whatever) his younger self.

That's back in 1973, so the events of DoFP didn't happen in the original timeline. Yes, we've all asked questions like, 'then in the OT how did Professor X start to hope again' and 'then in the OT how did Magneto escape', but the how doesn't matter. It must have happened, just in a different way.

So everything that happened in 1973, from the moment Wolvie wakes up, it's a new timeline.

Yes, we don't see the change to the future until Mystique makes her choice at the end of the movie, but that just shows the fact that most things that did happen in the OT will/have still happened in the new timeline. Sure, that statement can't be said for everything, but due to the 2023 wake-up scene we know that much happened the same way. Same characters, played by the same actors and actresses, in the same mansion, with the same looks, with the same relationships, etc.!

You explain that DoFP is chronologically last, but that's only partially correct. Yes, both 2023 scenes, the one with the battle against the Sentinals and the one when Wolvie wakes up, happen last chronologically, but all of the 1973 stuff happens in 1973, which means it's inbetween Origins, which happens post 1973, and X1.

As far as your Universe B, you need to add the Wolvie wake-up scene after Gambit for it to be correct, because that scene happens in the new timeline!

 

[DigificWriter]

DoFP starts in Universe A but ends up spawning and concluding in Universe B.

 

[dax]

^ Not sure that that could be said. They could have been involved in Vietnam from anytime between the 1950's (when the "war" began) until 1973, when the war concluded for the US.

^That and the incident where Victor kills his senior officer and then gets gunned down and locked up in a Vietnamese prison may have still happened. The only difference is Logan isn't around to back him up or be locked up with him since he is now in New York gaurding the mob boss's daughter.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Victor killing his senior officer and getting emprisoned ... Maybe these events set after 1973, thats why it has been cancelled in new timeline.
Logan goes back in his normal life when US army dont need him for missions. Future Logan in 1973 told to Xavier : "I made many wars. But I've ever seen that war (against future sentinels)". It refers to intro of x-men origins, all wars he participed alongside with Creed

Just based on what I've seen, I'd argue that the specific divergence point is the moment Kitty sends him back in time.

Either way, though, DoFP would be sequentially last as far as chronology goes, giving you the following orders:
Order #1
Universe A:
First Class
Origins: Wolverine
X-Men
X2
Last Stand
The Wolverine
DoFP

Universe B:
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Gambit

And Wolverine 3 for new timeline

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Huh?

That doesn't make any sense.


As far as your Universe B, you need to add the Wolvie wake-up scene after Gambit for it to be correct, because that scene happens in the new timeline!

*Original Tieline:
First Class
Origins
X1
X2
X3
Wolverine
All scenes against future sentinels in DOFP, all scenes in 25moments

*New Timeline
First Class
All scenes in 1973 when Logan gets his body in past in DOFP
Apocalypse
Deadpool
Gambit
Wolverine 3
End of DOFP new 2023

 

[Super Jim]

Lets see if our breakdown matches (I get a bit more specific):

In order:

Original Timeline

Apocalypse scene creating the pyramids
All Origins scenes up to 1962
First Class
Origins main story
X1
X2
Last Stand
The Wolverine
DoFP 2023 battle scene

Original Timeline

Apocalypse scene creating the pyramids
All Origins scenes up to 1962
First Class
DoFP 1973 story (from Wolvie "waking" up to him being pulled out of the water)
Apocalypse
Deadpool (Assumed)
Gambit (Assumed)
Wolverine 3 (this could be after the DoFP Wolvie wake-up scene - don't know yet)
DoFP 2023 Wolvie wake-up, everyone alive scene

As you can see, that 2023 wake-up scene is very important to the new timeline as it defines many things. It tells us that some things that happened during X1 to X3 in the OT likely happened again in the new timeline. I mean, Rogue still had the white streak in her hair, her and Bobby were together, Kitty and Colossus were at the school, so was Hank, Storm, Jean and Scott. Maybe those things didn't happen in the identical way as what we saw in X1 to X3 and even Origins, but it's possible that some things did.

One thing that does bother me about DoFP is Logan working for the mob boss. Up to that exact point, when older Wolvie's mind wakes up in his 1973 self, everything should have been exactly the same. After Origins, if I had asked you where Wolverine was in 1973 I expect everybody would have said in Vietnam, with Victor. Trying to remember, as it does pertain, whether they showed the years of all of the Vietnam, or working for Stryker stuff, in Origins? Does anyone remember/know? To me, it doesn't make sense that Wolvie was working for a mob boss in 1973, but maybe he was on leave??? That's a stretch, but I can suspend belief at times...

Anyway, to see if they created another continuity issue (though an easily overlooked one) we would need to know if the years were specified for all of the Vietnam stuff, including when they were imprisoned and when Stryker came to them, and then when all of that working for Stryker stuff happened. anyone know?

 

[kasjan]

original timeline

apocalypse scene creating the pyramids
all origins scenes up to wwii
x1, fc scenes in 1944
the wolverine (scenes in 1945)
first class
dofp 1973 scenes from old xavier's memories
origins since end of vietnam war to logan leaving team-x
last stand scene with little jean
origins main story (x1, x2 logan's memories)
last stand scene with little warren
x1
x2
last stand
the wolverine
dofp 2023 battle scene

fixed!

 

[DigificWriter]

It's getting way too far 'into the weeds', IMO, to try and break-down exactly what in each movie takes place in which reality, and is only something that obsessive fanboys are going to even care about.

 

[Super Jim]

Bravo to kasjan!

That should cover everything.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with trying to map out what happened in the OT and what happened in the new timeline, especially since there's a lot of crossover.

We now have a pretty good understanding of what is current movie canon in the new timeline, based on everything we know.

Just wait until they add in another time travel movie, which will create a couple of new timelines and what we'll need to do to keep track of things!

 

[marvelrobbins]

Let's simply things here.

Just like Star Trek 2009 erased most of trek with possable exception of enterprise save for series finale we are left with these after time travel of
DOFP

1:Post credit scene of DOFP
2rigins through WWII
3:1944 scenes of FC
4:WWII flashback of the wolverine
5:main 1962 part of FC
6:1973 Scenes of DOFP from wolverine waking up to Beast asking xavier about wolverine
7:Mystique as stryker finding wolverine
8:2023 ending of DOFP that wolverine wakes up In

Anything else is ilrelvent to Apocalypse,Deadpool,Gambit,and wolverine.

Unlike some here i still call X2 best X-Men film.

 

[Mars123]

I still think x2 is the best.

Dofp needed a action sequence in the middle of the film. X2 had pyro and the polic and storms tornado sequence.

Dofp middle sequence was beast banging magnetos head in a fountain.

 

[kasjan]

Before DOFP debut Singer said about few timelines, just wait and see what happens.

 

[MakeMinesMarvel]

Only one who remembers the old movies is Wolverine and he's retiring.

Yay!

 

[marvelrobbins]

Wolverine will eventully be recast.

 

[x-er]

Huh?

That doesn't make any sense. The divergence doesn't happen in 2023, which is when Kitty sends Wolverine's mind back in time. It happens in the past in 1973 from the moment Wolverine's older mind takes control (switches places with, whatever) his younger self.

That's back in 1973, so the events of DoFP didn't happen in the original timeline. Yes, we've all asked questions like, 'then in the OT how did Professor X start to hope again' and 'then in the OT how did Magneto escape', but the how doesn't matter. It must have happened, just in a different way.

So everything that happened in 1973, from the moment Wolvie wakes up, it's a new timeline.

Yes, we don't see the change to the future until Mystique makes her choice at the end of the movie, but that just shows the fact that most things that did happen in the OT will/have still happened in the new timeline. Sure, that statement can't be said for everything, but due to the 2023 wake-up scene we know that much happened the same way. Same characters, played by the same actors and actresses, in the same mansion, with the same looks, with the same relationships, etc.!

You explain that DoFP is chronologically last, but that's only partially correct. Yes, both 2023 scenes, the one with the battle against the Sentinals and the one when Wolvie wakes up, happen last chronologically, but all of the 1973 stuff happens in 1973, which means it's inbetween Origins, which happens post 1973, and X1.

As far as your Universe B, you need to add the Wolvie wake-up scene after Gambit for it to be correct, because that scene happens in the new timeline!

What I can't wrap my head around is how nothing in the future changes throughout the film despite all the tampering Wolverine does with the past.

As soon as you send someone back in time and that person alters something, it should have some sort of ripple effect on time.

 

[dax]

One thing that does bother me about DoFP is Logan working for the mob boss. Up to that exact point, when older Wolvie's mind wakes up in his 1973 self, everything should have been exactly the same. After Origins, if I had asked you where Wolverine was in 1973 I expect everybody would have said in Vietnam, with Victor. Trying to remember, as it does pertain, whether they showed the years of all of the Vietnam, or working for Stryker stuff, in Origins? Does anyone remember/know? To me, it doesn't make sense that Wolvie was working for a mob boss in 1973, but maybe he was on leave??? That's a stretch, but I can suspend belief at times...

Anyway, to see if they created another continuity issue (though an easily overlooked one) we would need to know if the years were specified for all of the Vietnam stuff, including when they were imprisoned and when Stryker came to them, and then when all of that working for Stryker stuff happened. anyone know?

I looked on Google for X-men timeline and there's this chart from Empire Magazine that points out what year a certain event takes place. It says that Wolverine and Sabertooth survived execution by firing squad and were imprisoned in 1975. It also points out that William Stryker came to their cell during that time to recruit them into Team X and then Wolverine quits the team in 1979. Lastly, the rest of Origins: Wolverine is set in 1987 so hopefully, that clears things up.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I still think x2 is the best.

Dofp needed a action sequence in the middle of the film. X2 had pyro and the polic and storms tornado sequence.

Dofp middle sequence was beast banging magnetos head in a fountain.

Although I agree with this (DOFP was a let down), I actually thought the Paris Peace Accords scene (Beast banging Magneto's head, among others) was when the tension in the movie picked up.

If only the Mystique make up during that scene outside wasn't that obvious...

What I can't wrap my head around is how nothing in the future changes throughout the film despite all the tampering Wolverine does with the past.

As soon as you send someone back in time and that person alters something, it should have some sort of ripple effect on time.

That was explained in the movie

 

[x-er]

^ No it wasn't.

Kitty sends the X-Men updates back in time in order to change their hideout and the effect is almost instant (one or two minutes). The update that was sent with Wolverine lasted hours but the future didn't see its effects at any point. Like the stadium that got dropped over the white house by a mutant. That happened while the hand gate was active but it had absolutely no bearing on the future.

It doesn't make sense. I mean, you can't say "oh we're going to change this one thing that happened in the past", then go and change a lot of other things, and expect only that "one thing" to have an effect on the future.