The Topher Grace/ Eddie Brock Thread

[Shockdingo]

That's what I would have done. Also, it would have given Raimi more time to make Brock a more interesting character, and thus a more interesting villain. So many people b*tch and moan about how Venom is "too one dimensional" and such. Well, if you don't like it, change it! Raimi could have used this opportunity to make Brock a better villain but instead he was thrown in as more an afterthought.

Personally, I would have made Brock a bit of a mentor figure to Peter. Someone that Pete tags along with on journalism assignments and such. I would have had Brock be an alright guy, but someone who also could be a major jerk. I'd make him a typical imperfect person, someone who wants to the do the right thing but more often then not does the wrong thing.

I would have changed out the Sandman family storyline and replaced it with Brock. Have Brock be the one with the sick daughter, except he's trying to take care of her on his own. His wife left, and a good deal of blame lies with Eddy, because he wasn't the ideal spouse.

Eddy needs money to get his daughter medical treatment, but he also has a gambling problem and owes money to some bad people. So when he's desperate, he rips off Peter's pics to pay the debts off. Then, when Pete gets the black costume he exposes Brock (much like in the movie) but doesn't realize that by getting Brock fired he's also pretty much screwed the guy and his daughter because now Brock can't pay off the gambling debts fully.

The guys who Brock owes money come to his house and kill his daughter to teach him a "lesson" and Brock, overtaken by grief goes to commit suicide at a church, and you know what happens from there.

The sad thing is, I just thought that up, and I think it makes Brock more interesting as a character, and it would give him a better motive as a villain, because not only did Peter ruin his life, he inadvertently ended Brock's daughter's.

Oh darn it! That would have been especially tragic. It makes me sad that this isn't the route that was taken in the movies,ultimate and now deemed impossible in the new cartoon series. I wish you were the writer! Seriously, dude, if you ever write up a screen play or something. I will voice it for you.

 

[Blader5489]

That's what I would have done. Also, it would have given Raimi more time to make Brock a more interesting character, and thus a more interesting villain. So many people b*tch and moan about how Venom is "too one dimensional" and such. Well, if you don't like it, change it! Raimi could have used this opportunity to make Brock a better villain but instead he was thrown in as more an afterthought.

Personally, I would have made Brock a bit of a mentor figure to Peter. Someone that Pete tags along with on journalism assignments and such. I would have had Brock be an alright guy, but someone who also could be a major jerk. I'd make him a typical imperfect person, someone who wants to the do the right thing but more often then not does the wrong thing.

I would have changed out the Sandman family storyline and replaced it with Brock. Have Brock be the one with the sick daughter, except he's trying to take care of her on his own. His wife left, and a good deal of blame lies with Eddy, because he wasn't the ideal spouse.

Eddy needs money to get his daughter medical treatment, but he also has a gambling problem and owes money to some bad people. So when he's desperate, he rips off Peter's pics to pay the debts off. Then, when Pete gets the black costume he exposes Brock (much like in the movie) but doesn't realize that by getting Brock fired he's also pretty much screwed the guy and his daughter because now Brock can't pay off the gambling debts fully.

The guys who Brock owes money come to his house and kill his daughter to teach him a "lesson" and Brock, overtaken by grief goes to commit suicide at a church, and you know what happens from there.

The sad thing is, I just thought that up, and I think it makes Brock more interesting as a character, and it would give him a better motive as a villain, because not only did Peter ruin his life, he inadvertently ended Brock's daughter's.

That would never happen in a Spider-Man movie, regardless of the villain or the director.

 

[omid17]

That would never happen in a Spider-Man movie, regardless of the villain or the director.

agreed

 

[Infinity9999x]

That would never happen in a Spider-Man movie, regardless of the villain or the director.

I'm confused. Why not exactly?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Oh darn it! That would have been especially tragic. It makes me sad that this isn't the route that was taken in the movies,ultimate and now deemed impossible in the new cartoon series. I wish you were the writer! Seriously, dude, if you ever write up a screen play or something. I will voice it for you.

Thanks I'm actually trying to get a book published, once I edit it, but I really don't know how to go about it other then just sending it in to random publishers. It's hard to find time to work on it though, being still in highschool and all.

 

[DACrowe]

Well getting Spidey to be inadvertantly responsbile for the murder of a little girl...that **** Marvel would never put in the comic, much less the movies which other than Harry's death and the symbiote in general have lived in the '60s "golden era" Spidey days that were bright and colorful.

I think making it so that Brock has a sympathetic angle to losing his job (better than in the comics) would be nice...but y'know Doc Ock was sympathetic, Sandman was written as sympathetic, Harry is sympathetic, **** some people mistakingly feel sorry for Norman Osborn (when it is all self-made and ego)...Venom would be one too many (especially if Lizard is next).

And Sam did change Venom for the better, he just didn't have enough screentime. But a villain who is completely evil and everything in reverse and perverse that is Peter Parker is brilliant. The only reason people like Venom is because he looks like "Evil Spider-Man" and you explain he isn't and it's just an image but he is called "the Evil Spider-Man." Well Raimi simply made that premise and concept a reality and got rid of the lame backstory and pathetic excuse for a motive that Eddie Brock had in the comics and made Brock of a dooplenganger for Peter Parker, but a shallow immoral guy who is really Peter with a bad upbringing and a lack of ideological moral compas via western civilization. He is Peter's mirror image, only distorted to be on the other side of the spectrum. He was THE evil Spider-Man.

so I do think he improved upon the concept, but I do agree he needed more screentime.

 

[Blader5489]

I'm confused. Why not exactly?

It's way too dark and requires far too much emphasis on Eddie (you have four other main characters to focus on, remember). And you will never, ever see a little girl--or any kid for that matter--be killed in a Spider-Man movie.

 

[Arcturus]

But what's done is done, and I was pleased with Venom and Topher Graces portrayal of Eddie Brock. I just wish he had a little more screen-time, in fact, I wish they kept the scene with Eddie showing up at Gwen's house intact. And also, the original meeting of Venom and Sandman in the park.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Well getting Spidey to be inadvertantly responsbile for the murder of a little girl...that **** Marvel would never put in the comic, much less the movies which other than Harry's death and the symbiote in general have lived in the '60s "golden era" Spidey days that were bright and colorful.

I think making it so that Brock has a sympathetic angle to losing his job (better than in the comics) would be nice...but y'know Doc Ock was sympathetic, Sandman was written as sympathetic, Harry is sympathetic, **** some people mistakingly feel sorry for Norman Osborn (when it is all self-made and ego)...Venom would be one too many (especially if Lizard is next).

Ahh, I don't think I made myself clear enough. I do want Venom to be slightly sympathetic, because at some points he'll seem like a nice guy. He'll give Peter advice on life, maybe buy him a drink while their out on an assignment, but I'd also have him do things that would get you thinking "wow, this guy's an ass."

For example, maybe Brock would steal Peter's picks a few times. The first few times Peter doesn't say anything, because he kind of likes Brock, but when Peter finally confronts him about it, Brock flips out on the kid, threatens to ruff him up if he doesn't keep his mouth shut.

Besides that I'd also indicate in smaller actions throughout the movie that convey the sense that Brock really isn't that nice of a person. Yeah, you still feel bad for him that his daughter dies, but it's also largely his fault.

And Sam did change Venom for the better, he just didn't have enough screentime. But a villain who is completely evil and everything in reverse and perverse that is Peter Parker is brilliant. The only reason people like Venom is because he looks like "Evil Spider-Man" and you explain he isn't and it's just an image but he is called "the Evil Spider-Man." Well Raimi simply made that premise and concept a reality and got rid of the lame backstory and pathetic excuse for a motive that Eddie Brock had in the comics and made Brock of a dooplenganger for Peter Parker, but a shallow immoral guy who is really Peter with a bad upbringing and a lack of ideological moral compas via western civilization. He is Peter's mirror image, only distorted to be on the other side of the spectrum. He was THE evil Spider-Man.

I agree here. I like what Raimi did with Brock, but he just needed more. Also, I'm not saying you couldn't incorporate the mirror image theme into the story above.

I would portray Brock as very similar to Peter, but as I've said, his actions throughout the movie would show that he really isn't a very good guy. Maybe at some point I'd have Brock have a convo with his dad on the phone, and show the dad to be a complete a-hole, to show that Brock didn't really get good upbringing either.

And the tragedy of his daughter really serves to mirror Peter even more. Brock loses a loved one in his life, but instead of vowing to destroy the evil that took his daughter (as Peter did with Ben) he's consumed by vengeance and only seeks to place the blame for his daughter's death on everyone but himself. The exact opposite of what Peter did, which was blame himself for Ben's death completely.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I loved how Brock was like an evil twin to Peter in this film. I think it's one of the things that made us so attached to Brock's character in this film and so interested in his down fall to depression. I'm sure people will say that Brock should have had more to him, but as I have said before, I really think he was greatly developed.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I loved how Brock was like an evil twin to Peter in this film. I think it's one of the things that made us so attached to Brock's character in tihs film and so interested in his down fall to depression. I'm sure people will say that Brock should have had more to him, but as I have said before, I really think he was greatly developed.

For the amount of screentime he had, I agree with you. They really did develop him very well considering that he probably only had 15 to 20mins of footage shown.

 

[Victarion]

That's what I would have done. Also, it would have given Raimi more time to make Brock a more interesting character, and thus a more interesting villain. So many people b*tch and moan about how Venom is "too one dimensional" and such. Well, if you don't like it, change it! Raimi could have used this opportunity to make Brock a better villain but instead he was thrown in as more an afterthought.

Personally, I would have made Brock a bit of a mentor figure to Peter. Someone that Pete tags along with on journalism assignments and such. I would have had Brock be an alright guy, but someone who also could be a major jerk. I'd make him a typical imperfect person, someone who wants to the do the right thing but more often then not does the wrong thing.

I would have changed out the Sandman family storyline and replaced it with Brock. Have Brock be the one with the sick daughter, except he's trying to take care of her on his own. His wife left, and a good deal of blame lies with Eddy, because he wasn't the ideal spouse.

Eddy needs money to get his daughter medical treatment, but he also has a gambling problem and owes money to some bad people. So when he's desperate, he rips off Peter's pics to pay the debts off. Then, when Pete gets the black costume he exposes Brock (much like in the movie) but doesn't realize that by getting Brock fired he's also pretty much screwed the guy and his daughter because now Brock can't pay off the gambling debts fully.

The guys who Brock owes money come to his house and kill his daughter to teach him a "lesson" and Brock, overtaken by grief goes to commit suicide at a church, and you know what happens from there.

The sad thing is, I just thought that up, and I think it makes Brock more interesting as a character, and it would give him a better motive as a villain, because not only did Peter ruin his life, he inadvertently ended Brock's daughter's.

Absolutely beautiful. To add to this, I would have started developing Brock in Spider-Man 1. That way come Spider-Man 3, things would come to a big conclusion with Green Goblin 2 and Venom.

pet peeve: Name the disease his daughter has. That was one of the things of 3 that bugged me just a tad-they never said what Sandman's daughter was sick with.

---Morzan

 

[The Joker_1000]

Yeah, that was kind of stupid. Flint made a big deal out of how sick she was & they never even said what she was sick with. It's probably something able to be cured, though.

 

[IamProdigy]

Really?

So, what was the main problems?

Exactly...it all comes down TO the writing.

Spider-Man 1 and 2; incredible writing, dialogue, everything...everything in Spider-Man 3 was forced; the villains' stories were forced, even with Harry's in this movie; the whole thing, just a way for Raimi to complete the trilogy, not giving it all as he did with the first two movies.

 

[omid17]

Yeah, that was kind of stupid. Flint made a big deal out of how sick she was & they never even said what she was sick with. It's probably something able to be cured, though.

Why do you think he needed the moneyt:

 

[IamProdigy]

I'm on this thread, so feeling like complaing about this...300 or Transformers, what should I vote for as best action movie? Hard choice right there...

 

[Blader5489]

Exactly...it all comes down TO the writing.

Spider-Man 1 and 2; incredible writing, dialogue, everything...everything in Spider-Man 3 was forced; the villains' stories were forced, even with Harry's in this movie; the whole thing, just a way for Raimi to complete the trilogy, not giving it all as he did with the first two movies.

LOL!

You are delusional.

 

[IamProdigy]

LOL!

You are delusional.

LOL!

Says you. One person.

 

[Blader5489]

LOL!

Says you. One person.

If you think SM1 and 2 had "incredible writing and dialogue," then you need to go out and watch more movies. Or read more.

I'm not calling their scripts bad or anything, just far from "incredible."

 

[Matt Murdock]

LOL!

Says you. One person.

I think you're pathetic...

and delusional.

 

[IamProdigy]

If you think SM1 and 2 had "incredible writing and dialogue," then you need to go out and watch more movies. Or read more.

I'm not calling their scripts bad or anything, just far from "incredible."

Compared to movies such as To Kill A Mockingbird, or Casablanca, or The Shawshank Redemption, no, but as in comic-book adaptations, yes, it was incredible writing for a Spidey movie...Spider-Man 3 lacked everything that the first two had.

 

[IamProdigy]

I think you're pathetic...

and delusional.

Good job Spidey's Super-Fan!!!

Like I care.

 

[Blader5489]

Compared to movies such as To Kill A Mockingbird, or Casablanca, or The Shawshank Redemption, no, but as in comic-book adaptations, yes, it was incredible writing for a Spidey movie...Spider-Man 3 lacked everything that the first two had.

To be honest, I don't care what you think. At all. When you said that SM3's major flaw was that it wasn't you imagined it to be, I knew you wouldn't be worth my time. And I'll continue to treat your posts as such--a waste of my time.

 

[IamProdigy]

To be honest, I don't care what you think. At all. When you said that SM3's major flaw was that it wasn't you imagined it to be, I knew you wouldn't be worth my time.

And...here you are replying to my posts?

If you don't care, stop talking to me

 

[Infinity9999x]

Absolutely beautiful. To add to this, I would have started developing Brock in Spider-Man 1. That way come Spider-Man 3, things would come to a big conclusion with Green Goblin 2 and Venom.

pet peeve: Name the disease his daughter has. That was one of the things of 3 that bugged me just a tad-they never said what Sandman's daughter was sick with.

---Morzan

Yes, ideally I would have started Brock's arc in SM1 as well, with him having small cameos in 1 similar to Conners, a slightly larger role in 2, and concluding it in 3.

Of course, in the perfect world, I would have split the symbiote saga into two movies and thus haver Spider-man wear the symbiote for a full movie. My third movie would have dealt with Spider-man learning about his new suit and having to fight Harry and Sandman. I would have left Venom for SM4. This way you avoid smashing too much into 3. This way Brock can slowly develop over 3 movies, so he wont take away too much from the main villains in the earlier movies, and he'll really get to shine in 4.

Also, I'd probably make Brock's daughter have some sort of heart disease. It wouldn't be incurable, but he would definitely need a good amount of money to help her.