The Trump Thread!!!

[DeadPresident]

Illegals cost more than they earn, take jobs away from USA citizens, and ahem add to crime. All the the above is true.

Firstly, what they earn is irrelevant. Secondly, show me the data. Thirdly, what's really important isn't what they earn or cost, but what they produce. Remove all non-US citizens from the labour force, pretty much guaranteed the expense to GDP will be far over $100bn. Fourthly, "add to crime" is the most oversimplified statement I've ever seen, you don't even care to say what crime. Crime that's probably irrelevant compared to what a bunch of other domestic issues are costing.

I agree the banks have too much power. Clinton and Bush are compromised and will listen to the banks more than Joe average citizen.

Obama let all the Wall Street crooks skate. As George Carlin aptly put it, you have the illusion of choice on Election Day. This is where I think Trump is different. He doesn’t owe favors to foreign interests or lobbyist because he isn’t a career politician.

Trump comes from money, like someone else said before, he's the stereotypical elite billionaire. Want to take a guess where he probably has a lot of his money invested? Yeah, probably with LTI's from the big banks. He's not going to do anything that'll affect their bottom line because it just means his investments devalue. Anyone involved in politics is going to listen to the banks and big business before they'll give a **** about civilian deaths on the street or increasing income disparity. It's the nature of politics, corporations and banks own the entire country. It's in no politician's interest to encourage the separation and diffusion of ownership.

Trump isn't different, he's a red herring that will still play by the exact same rules the "democracy" in the USA has created. You want to know why Obama let the Wall Street crooks skate? Because the American financial sector and institutions prop up the economy. If anything happens to them the economy will be ****ed for another decade at the very least. If you want to spend your time on something productive, stop defending and promoting a deceitful and ill-equipped capitalist for president and start educating yourself on how the global community can stem the tide of financial institutions making everyone poorer.

http://moveyourmoney.org.uk

Inform yourself about movements like this, and google the rise of the Solidarity Economy. Somebody might come along and improve prospects for the average American, but I promise you it won't be Trump. He might manage some superficial improvements temporarily, but in the background he'll be making out like a bandit doing God knows what with your tax money.

 

[Taarna]

Originally Posted by Taarna View Post
Illegals cost more than they earn, take jobs away from USA citizens, and ahem add to crime. All the the above is true.

DeadPresident Firstly, what they earn is irrelevant.

Says you. What they earn would be welcomed by many USA citizens who do not have jobs.

DeadPresident Secondly, show me the data.

How many links do you want in terms of what they cost? I'll stat with ABC news.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317

http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Neal...hcare-illegal-emergency/2013/05/09/id/503579/

Thirdly, what's really important isn't what they earn or cost, but what they produce. Remove all non-US citizens from the labour force, pretty much guaranteed the expense to GDP will be far over $100bn.

I am for work related stays. I am not for giving them any benefits on taxed dollars. They should go to the citizens and the states first.

Fourthly, "add to crime" is the most oversimplified statement I've ever seen, you don't even care to say what crime. Crime that's probably irrelevant compared to what a bunch of other domestic issues are costing.

Do you trust the FBI. They agree with Trump.


The FBI further documented gangs in Southwestern border regions consisting of up to 80 percent illegal aliens were committing a multitude of crimes in America, “including drug-related crimes, weapons trafficking, alien smuggling, human trafficking, prostitution, extortion, robbery, auto theft, assault, homicide, racketeering, and money laundering.”


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/fbi-data-backs-up-trump-claims-on-illegals-and-crime/#UPYZ4kaBv4Rf1sjz.99


http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/fbi-data-backs-up-trump-claims-on-illegals-and-crime/

 

[DeadPresident]

Says you. What they earn would be welcomed by many USA citizens who do not have jobs.

You keep diverting back to this, $100bn is a negligible sum. Any number of investment companies or trade and industry organizations could put a business plan together to fund projects that could produce that instantly - if somebody would invest the money.

How many links do you want in terms of what they cost? I'll stat with ABC news.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317

http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Neal...hcare-illegal-emergency/2013/05/09/id/503579/

I hate to sound like an academic snob, but quoting ABC or Fox as sources of "evidence" is laughable. Find me some data, where someone with expertise on a given topic actually did qualitative research, then we can talk.

I am for work related stays. I am not for giving them any benefits on taxed dollars. They should go to the citizens and the states first.

Again, focusing on something as minuscule as the cost of benefits to such a small group of people. You're fantastic proof that media scare tactics and diversion have got the American people focusing on everything that's completely irrelevant and nothing that could actually contribute to systemic improvement of living conditions for as many people as possible.

Do you trust the FBI. They agree with Trump.


The FBI further documented gangs in Southwestern border regions consisting of up to 80 percent illegal aliens were committing a multitude of crimes in America, “including drug-related crimes, weapons trafficking, alien smuggling, human trafficking, prostitution, extortion, robbery, auto theft, assault, homicide, racketeering, and money laundering.”


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/fbi-data-backs-up-trump-claims-on-illegals-and-crime/#UPYZ4kaBv4Rf1sjz.99


http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/fbi-data-backs-up-trump-claims-on-illegals-and-crime/

...You must be joking. Do I trust an intelligence agency? Surely you jest? More extensive border control I can get behind in concept. But of course, there's also the angle that if legal employment were readily available these people wouldn't resort to crime and it would actively contribute to the country's GDP because it could be taxed. Another news article posted as "evidence", again. A spin some news agency puts on a piece of data by cleverly omitting relevant information doesn't suddenly make any of what Trump says more credible. You come across as a textbook example of somebody whipped up by scare tactics of "them foreigners are takin' our jobs!". There are far more damaging things happening that are perpetrated by good ol' white collar business that deserve your attention.

Trump going on about illegal aliens as a source of problems in the USA is like a doctor trying to treat a kid's acne while he has a gaping bullet wound in his chest. The ability for news agencies to divert the public's attention onto non-topics is honestly disturbing. But hey man, do what you wanna do and believe what you wanna believe. If you think chasing down a scapegoat like illegal aliens is a good use of time while domestic financial services rob your country blind, by all means.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Didn't think anyone here would be championing Trump so damn hard. Donald Trump is EVERYTHING wrong with America. Arrogant, boastful, mean spirited, greedy and unapologetic. America will NOT be better off with that sentient fart as it's president. You think infrastructure, jobs, education, or the economy will improve with a billionaire in the drivers seat? He will do what he does best as president, MAKE HIMSELF MONEY. That's it. He'll irreparably damage foreign relations with his crass, insulting demeanor, and if ever there was a catalyst for further terror attacks it would be with a moron like Donald Trump at the helm. The only good that could come from his presidency is unifying the two parties against a common threat: the personification of American stupidity.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Trump going on about illegal aliens as a source of problems in the USA is like a doctor trying to treat a kid's acne while he has a gaping bullet wound in his chest. The ability for news agencies to divert the public's attention onto non-topics is honestly disturbing. But hey man, do what you wanna do and believe what you wanna believe. If you think chasing down a scapegoat like illegal aliens is a good use of time while domestic financial services rob your country blind, by all means.

Yep. Also, illegal immigration is decreasing (though not substantially).

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/24/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Donald Trump is campaigning on a platform that would be right at home in 2010. Illegal immigrants make up 3.5% of the nations population and around 5% of the workforce. Sounds to me like focusing on 3.5% of the populace as the reason for America's troubles doesn't make any sense whatsoever. There's more harm and evil done to this country by Wall Street, Banks and Corporations than that tiny 5% of workers could ever do.

 

[Victarion]

My problem with Trump is that he won't debate anyone. You kinda need to know how your candidate will do one-on-one with other people.

 

[Matt Mortem]

My problem with Trump is that he won't debate anyone. You kinda need to know how your candidate will do one-on-one with other people.

Is he not doing the big Republican debate this week?

 

[Victarion]

Was that the most recent one? He said something to the effect of "I don't debate."

 

[DeadPresident]

Debates are farcical anyways. It's a good indication of competence, but not a very good indication of intention. Trump could get somebody to coach and school him on good answers to hot topics to make him seem legit. Nothing will change the nature of the guy though, he's a vain snake. The fact that anyone thinks the same guy who performed for the Apprentice cameras would make even a logical candidate to clean the White House's windows is disturbing to the extreme.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I doubt Trump's ego would allow him to be coached for the debates anyhow. He'd just call the other candidates losers when they disagreed with him. Trump is a class act after all.

 

[DeadPresident]

The sad part is socially the USA is in a place right now where the average Joe would probably like nothing more than a wish fulfillment candidate that appears to be telling the established powers to go and **** themselves. When in actual fact, he's the exact opposite.

 

[Mechanix]

The sad part is socially the USA is in a place right now where the average Joe would probably like nothing more than a wish fulfillment candidate that appears to be telling the established powers to go and **** themselves. When in actual fact, he's the exact opposite.

It's ironic. People think he's some sort of champion for the little guy while conveniently forgetting that he stepped on many little guys to get where he is today.

Also, if he's so rude and disrespectful to citizens of his own country (like POWs), imagine how he would act towards foreign leaders.

 

[chaseter]

I wasn't aware you were a racist, good to know

Is that your only playing card? 'Illegals' aren't a race of people.

 

[Matt Mortem]

It's ironic. People think he's some sort of champion for the little guy while conveniently forgetting that he stepped on many little guys to get where he is today.

Also, if he's so rude and disrespectful to citizens of his own country (like POWs), imagine how he would act towards foreign leaders.

That's one of my biggest troubles with Trump. He will burn so many diplomatic bridges.

 

[Taarna]

I doubt Trump's ego would allow him to be coached for the debates anyhow. He'd just call the other candidates losers when they disagreed with him. Trump is a class act after all.

Who want's canned answers from a debate coach? I'd rather hear what the candidates think, not what they are told to say.

 

[Taarna]

DeadPresident says:

I hate to sound like an academic snob, but quoting ABC or Fox as sources of "evidence" is laughable. Find me some data, where someone with expertise on a given topic actually did qualitative research, then we can talk.

You must be one of those I don't care what various organizations report types.

I could have listed 5 more links, you won't accept the data.

Which source suits your erudite interests? I’ll take a look at them.

By the way the FBI data is rather good.

 

[DeadPresident]

You must be one of those I don't care what various organizations report types.

I could have listed 5 more links, you won't accept the data.

Which source suits your erudite interests? I’ll take a look at them.

By the way the FBI data is rather good.

No, I'm one of those "A news network doesn't do empirical research types". You didn't list data though, you listed opinions. Opinions crafted for particular reasons. I don't think you know what data actually looks like. This is the problem with people these days, they actually form their opinions based on what a news network says...come on, man.

The FBI data may be good, but the way a news source spins it is what's relevant, bruv. I've already listed what you should be looking at, the rest you can find on your own if you've got some initiative. I even suggested some extracurricular stuff like Move Your Money UK as an idea and the concept of the Solidarity Economy. Look up the Edelman Trust Barometer too if you feel like it. Peace.

You're looking at symptoms of a system, you're not looking at the sources of the problem. Start broadening your points of reference and consider a lot of out of the box options.

P.S, Voting for the Trump isn't out of the box.

 

[Victarion]

Yeah, quite a few people (young adult demographic) I know are favoring Trump for his bluntness and willingness to fix what needs fixing without "dancing around the issues." I like his attitude and the guy's clearly intelligent, but I need to see that he knows how to use it and can work with other people outside of the realm of big business.

 

[Mightmitenot]

Harvard Lampoon stings Trump.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...s-trump-with-fake-harvard-crimson-endorsement

 

[Matt Mortem]

Who want's canned answers from a debate coach? I'd rather hear what the candidates think, not what they are told to say.

And what Trump's thinks it's bigoted, greedy, jackassy, mean spirited thoughts. Not only do we not need Trump in politics, but we don't need him period.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I actually think Trump may end up being a good thing.

Someone so extreme, and unapologetic may force Republicans to actually reevaluate some of their positions.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I actually think Trump may end up being a good thing.

Someone so extreme, and unapologetic may force Republicans to actually reevaluate some of their positions.

It'd definitely be a wakeup call to the public. I think the politicians currently in the trenches aren't reexamining their stances any time soon.

 

[Taarna]

No, I'm one of those "A news network doesn't do empirical research types". You didn't list data though, you listed opinions. Opinions crafted for particular reasons. I don't think you know what data actually looks like. This is the problem with people these days, they actually form their opinions based on what a news network says...come on, man.

The FBI data may be good, but the way a news source spins it is what's relevant, bruv. I've already listed what you should be looking at, the rest you can find on your own if you've got some initiative. I even suggested some extracurricular stuff like Move Your Money UK as an idea and the concept of the Solidarity Economy. Look up the Edelman Trust Barometer too if you feel like it. Peace.

You're looking at symptoms of a system, you're not looking at the sources of the problem. Start broadening your points of reference and consider a lot of out of the box options.

P.S, Voting for the Trump isn't out of the box.

I agree, the media sucks in general and the FBI data is rather good. I also think Illegals are a huge cost drain, commit crimes, and a swiss cheese boarder defense is unwise these days.

In the news you might not be hearing Trump is not leading with Latino voters, ahead of Jeb Bush and Rubio. WOW.

Romney who is half Mexican got but 27% of the Latino vote. Trump might do better, but the real needle mover will be with the white vote, which can go up +10% or more...and that would seal the election.

http://www.youngcons.com/donald-trump-leading-in-hispanic-votes-according-to-poll/

 

[Taarna]

That's one of my biggest troubles with Trump. He will burn so many diplomatic bridges.

Matt,

Obama has been a disaster with USA allies.

His administration was caught spying on Germany

Israel, our best ally when push comes to shove aside from the UK is very upset with Obama.

The entire Middle East went south. Obama said no chem or bio weapons, and then does nothing when they are used. Horrible precedent to set.

ISIS is rampant.

The deal with Iran is terrible, no inspection for 20+ days? What is the point of an inspection? Giving Iran billion while at the same time letting them use 5,000 centrifuges that we know about?

Putin is doing what he wants in Eastern Europe.

Many felt Reagan would burn bridges, but he understood you make deals through strength, not we are sorry, here take this type of diplomacy. Billionaires are pragmatic when it comes to making deals. They have to be, but they also know what cards they have to play.

 

[Legendver2]

An issue I have about this whole Trump thing is that I find it weird that people *think* Trump is independent of the pitfalls of career politicians since he doesn't have to cater to lobbyists or whatever corporation is backing their campaign. I do hope people understand that in the grand scheme of things, compared to the super elite that actually run and own this country, Trumps $8b worth is but a fly. Sure he gives off the appearance that his money makes him independent from corporate backing this election, but that's only for election. Once you get in the White House, you pretty much have to abide by the same rules every president did. You can't use your money to pass legislation. You gotta go through loops and hoops and a bunch of BS to even get something to be considered on the floor. I'm sure he'll quickly find that since he doesn't *own* the country like he owns his business, his hands are going to be tied on alot of issues. You can't brute force your way through congress unless you plan to EO alot of stuff, and people already have a bad taste in their mouth after Obama did that.

So honestly, I doubt it even matters who you vote for, since the race is not decided by popular vote. Anybody will say anything during campaigning, it's just a matter of who says the right stuff that resonates. Once they're in office, the race is won, they don't have to do any of the stuff they "promised" during their campaign. Unless they violate an impeachable offense, they're not really bound by anything to fulfill any promise they make prior to winning. All they have to do is portray the appearance that they are working on the issues when re-election comes around. It's the same damn story every 4 years. If anyone thinks Trump is going to be different after the election, you're deluding yourselves.