The Avengers The under performance of WATCHMEN is proof why Marvel should not do THE ULTIMATES

[Sub-Zero]

Watchmen has been loved by most of the general public. Who cares if the critics don't like it.....

actually a lot of critics loved it. roger ebert actually got the message, and even elaborated on it. the general public is what hurt the movie. i think it dropped in box office revenue b/c people don't want to go to the movies and think.paul blart and medea were movies that you really don't have to think about to enjoy, and they both hit #1 two weeks in a row. the general public hasn't really heard of watchmen outside of what's been shoved down their throats since last july. i saw it twice and i thought it was awesome. i think to really appreciate it you need to read the comic, and almost none of the general public has.

avengers should do ok. no tdk numbers but with a great story it could have iron man numbers.

 

[sdc10]

actually a lot of critics loved it. roger ebert actually got the message, and even elaborated on it. the general public is what hurt the movie. i think it dropped in box office revenue b/c people don't want to go to the movies and think.paul blart and medea were movies that you really don't have to think about to enjoy, and they both hit #1 two weeks in a row. the general public hasn't really heard of watchmen outside of what's been shoved down their throats since last july. i saw it twice and i thought it was awesome. i think to really appreciate it you need to read the comic, and almost none of the general public has.

avengers should do ok. no tdk numbers but with a great story it could have iron man numbers.

I think the problem was that the movie may have been TOO much like the graphic novel. As a result it was much easier for the comic fans to identify the flaws with the movie, while at the same time alienating members of the general public who may have been turned off by word of mouth.

 

[November Rain]

Which is the poor one?

punisher

 

[Chewy]

Punisher was made by Lionsgate

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Indeed. Marvel Studios is so far 2 for 2.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Punisher was made by Lionsgate

really? i thought the first one with tom jane was, but the other one, that apparently no one saw, was made by marvel. i guess that's 0 for 2 for lionsgate. haha.

 

[Hectorminator]

Marvel's not gonna do a full-blown adaptation of The Ultimates Volume 1 because Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk were not full-blown adaptations of Ultimate Hulk or Ultimate Iron Man and those need to fit in with the upcoming Avengers movie. Duh.

 

[Docker2.0]

I think the problem was that the movie may have been TOO much like the graphic novel. As a result it was much easier for the comic fans to identify the flaws with the movie, while at the same time alienating members of the general public who may have been turned off by word of mouth.

Agreed! And whether people want to admit it or not, Watchmen did underperform at the BO. It was R rated but how many of us thought it would make $200M easily? Yeah I was one of those people. I think with minor editing, the movie could have made that much, given itself a pg rating, and made more......like giving Manhattan a pair of draws to wear instead of walking around............like that. Anyway, the thing that separates Watchmen from Avengers is 1)the Marvel name tag(which is big right now) and 2)more well known characters. Before Watchmen came out, if you asked who Silk Spectre was on the street and they would say some porn star. Avengers will do great at the BO.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Agreed, and who is that lovely specimen of female anatomy in your avy, Dock? Wowza.

 

[GregComicFan]

All Watchmen showed us is that it's story wasn't mainstream-friendly. That was quite obvious from anyone who has read the book.

I agree.

 

[Docker2.0]

Agreed, and who is that lovely specimen of female anatomy in your avy, Dock? Wowza.

Silk Spectre.


Seriously, a porn star named with the last name Jolie.....

 

[bubbadoom]

I think it is fair to say WATCHMEN underperformed with a $107 million b.o. against a $150 million budget.

 

[TheVileOne]

Ultimates isn't mainstream friendly either if they want this movie to play to the little kids and action figure crowd like Iron Man.

Just saying, if the movie was a celluloid copy of the Ultimates, it would probably bomb.

 

[Docker2.0]

Dude if you think a movie with Cap, IM and the Hulk together would bomb, I got some dead hookers in my closet that want to have sex with you.

 

[TheVileOne]

It would bomb because no one would go to see a movie if for instance that Hank/Jan scene from the comics was filmed exactly as is.

Just remember folks. The crossover audience between comics and mainstream moviegoers for these types of movies is miniscule. So catering to the Ultimates crowd is a foolish idea.

No one is going to like Cap if he does *****e-ish things so Cap can be *flawed*. Iron Man is our flawed hero.

 

[kedrell]

Ultimates isn't mainstream friendly either if they want this movie to play to the little kids and action figure crowd like Iron Man.

Just saying, if the movie was a celluloid copy of the Ultimates, it would probably bomb.

Funny how TDK(being darker than dark and all) WAS mainstream friendly.

 

[TheVileOne]

TDK is still more mainstream friendly than The Ultimates.

 

[kedrell]

Well TDK-ish is about how dark(or serious, yeah that's a better word) an adaption of the Ultimates would have to be.

 

[TheVileOne]

Nope. And that's Batman. Batman is different. Batman is not Ultimates. There is no NURSE EATING HULK in The Dark Knight.

 

[kedrell]

A nurse eating Hulk? Boy will she get fat.t:

 

[Infinity9999x]

Let's be honest, it is very unlikely that Marvel will do a completely faithful adaption of the first 6 issues of THE ULTIMATES comic for the live action AVENGERS movie, since THE ULTIMATES (as written in the comics) would not appeal to the non comic book reading all ages general audience. This is one of the reasons why the 2 ULTIMATE AVENGERS movies were an amalgamated version of the original 616 AVENGERS and THE ULTIMATES. If the under performance of the WATCHMEN movie has taught us anything, it's that MOST (NOT ALL) non comic book readers/moviegoers DO NOT have any interest in superhero movies where the MAIN heroes in the movie are either (a) full blown insane or (b) morally corrupt to down right evil. I believe that MOST people want heroes who have (a) have easilly forgivable and/or redeemable flaws (b) who actually act like heroes and (c) who they would want to be (or would like to imagine themselves being). I also think that MOST (NOT ALL) people want (and expect) superhero movies to be more fantasy with a touch of realism as opposed to being ultra realistic with elements of fantasy.

Faulty logic for a few reasons.

1.) Watchmen didn't under-perform. It did quite well for an R-rated movie, especially one based on a cult comic book that 99% of the general audience has never heard of before. The only reason it's considered a "flop" is because it cost so much to make, but it still made it's budget back in world wide totals. Add in the $ that's going to be made off the multiple DVD releases, and it's going to be doing quite well.

2.) The Ultimates isn't close to being as dark, or having characters as f*&cked up as the people in Watchmen. It was much more family-friendly. Yes, it was still adult, but if you made a straight adaptation of the first volume of the Ultimates, there's nothing in there that would push it over a Pg-13 rating.

3.) We're not going to be getting a straight adaptation of the Ultimates. We know this for a fact just by watching The Incredible Hulk. Betty Ross isn't a publicity mongol, Banner wasn't knowingly working on the super-solider serum, and Hulk isn't a crazy monster that wants to screw the crap out of Betty and eat people. The characterizations of Betty/Bruce were very much in line with the 616 interpretation.

So, all that aside, it's basically confirmed that we won't be getting a straight Ultimates adaptation.

 

[TheVileOne]

Ultimates isn't ****ing family friendly. The heroes are stuck up *****e-nozzles and downright sadistic at times.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Ultimates isn't ****ing family friendly. The heroes are stuck up *****e-nozzles and downright sadistic at times.

I said more family friendly than Watchmen, not family friendly.

Though, while it is very adult, if you translated the first volume of the Ultimates directly to screen, there's nothing in it that would bumb it over a Pg-13 rating. It's not close to as f*&cked up as Watchmen is.

 

[TheVileOne]

That's like saying Basic Instinct is more family friendly than Showgirls. One rating lower.

Also its not just about what it would rate. Its about that these are not how these heroes should be represented onscreen to a mainstream moviegoing audience for the first time ever.

Just remember, the crossover appeal between moviegoers and comic readers is miniscule at best. Watchmen proves.

Avengers should not be a movie that caters to the Ultimates fanbase. It should be a movie most everyone can enjoy.

 

[Infinity9999x]

That's like saying Basic Instinct is more family friendly than Showgirls. One rating lower.

Also its not just about what it would rate. Its about that these are not how these heroes should be represented onscreen to a mainstream moviegoing audience for the first time ever.

Just remember, the crossover appeal between moviegoers and comic readers is miniscule at best. Watchmen proves.

Avengers should not be a movie that caters to the Ultimates fanbase. It should be a movie most everyone can enjoy.

Exactly, which was my point. I said it's more family friendly than Watchman, I wasn't saying it's the same as Lion King.

And I really don't see much that would upset the mainstream audience besides the way the Hulk was portrayed, and as I said above, we already know we won't be getting that Hulk. Thor, Iron Man, Cap, Hawkeye, and Black Widow don't do anything too drastic at all, and the only other theme that would be fairly intense is the Pyms relationship. Though I really don't see that as being that "dark." Yeah, it's adult, but spouse abuse has been a theme the general public has seen for years. It's been portrayed in just about every teen drama since the 80's, and the Lifetime channel releases a new movie about it pretty much every other minute. Nothing the Gen. Audience is going to find too disturbing.

However, I'm not saying we should get a straight Ultimate adaptation. I would like the movies to use Elements from both. I think the things the Ultimates did best was the formation of team, and the whole plot of Cap trying to get used to being frozen for 60 years. I'm on the fence about the whole Thor/God subplot thing, I really don't care either way if they include it or not.

And then, I loved the way they handled the Skrulls, however, I would definitely replace Klieser with Red Skull.