The Avengers Roll of the Pyms in Avengers

[Son of Coul]

She doesn't have to be ditzy like Zur described, but they can pull off the Thor-cuteness/Hank-ignorance thing if they make it real enough.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

You don't have to make her ditzy at all, she just really likes Hank and that's her priority sometimes. Why can't a female character be attracted to a male without being characterized as ditzy? She could totally take care of business but her preoccupation is with Hank, and it comes up at inappropriate times.

Also, Fury wouldn't have a huge selection of people to choose anyway because most of them are chosen for their unique ability. He isn't going to turn down a superhero because she is a flirt. Tony is a flirt, but he gets a pass? I realize everyone loves a strong female character who doesn't need men, but in this genre all women are either that or they turn out being hostages.

 

[chris moore]

Maybe Jan's interest in Hank could be used as a way of highlighting his pre-occupation with science. Not that Hank is an arrogant jerk in the movie-verse or anything like that (too much risk of going down the wife beating, pill popping ultimate route, which I absolutely loath as a treatment for Hank). But more that he wants to be a hero, but constantly finds himself more engrossed in his research than in the priorities of the mission/threat. His and Jan's skills (whether the have their abilities pre-film or accidentally/purposefully get them at the start of the movie) are valuable (strength, stealth, durability), so Fury wants them to be in the field. And if Jan is made an army brat to give her a bit more of a reliable military edge for Fury's peace of mind. Then Jan insists on Hank being included and defends him whenever Fury berates him for his mind not being in the game and a threat to the safety of the team. Hank tends not to realise her devotion to him by bargaining her membership for his, and defending him to Fury. This creates distance between them until her life becomes viably threatened by something and breaks Hank out of his shell to be the hero he wants to be but doesn't believe he can be.

 

[VictorShade]

Maybe Jan's interest in Hank could be used as a way of highlighting his pre-occupation with science. Not that Hank is an arrogant jerk in the movie-verse or anything like that (too much risk of going down the wife beating, pill popping ultimate route, which I absolutely loath as a treatment for Hank). But more that he wants to be a hero, but constantly finds himself more engrossed in his research than in the priorities of the mission/threat. His and Jan's skills (whether the have their abilities pre-film or accidentally/purposefully get them at the start of the movie) are valuable (strength, stealth, durability), so Fury wants them to be in the field. And if Jan is made an army brat to give her a bit more of a reliable military edge for Fury's peace of mind. Then Jan insists on Hank being included and defends him whenever Fury berates him for his mind not being in the game and a threat to the safety of the team. Hank tends not to realise her devotion to him by bargaining her membership for his, and defending him to Fury. This creates distance between them until her life becomes viably threatened by something and breaks Hank out of his shell to be the hero he wants to be but doesn't believe he can be.

This sounds good.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Maybe Jan's interest in Hank could be used as a way of highlighting his pre-occupation with science. Not that Hank is an arrogant jerk in the movie-verse or anything like that (too much risk of going down the wife beating, pill popping ultimate route, which I absolutely loath as a treatment for Hank). But more that he wants to be a hero, but constantly finds himself more engrossed in his research than in the priorities of the mission/threat. His and Jan's skills (whether the have their abilities pre-film or accidentally/purposefully get them at the start of the movie) are valuable (strength, stealth, durability), so Fury wants them to be in the field. And if Jan is made an army brat to give her a bit more of a reliable military edge for Fury's peace of mind. Then Jan insists on Hank being included and defends him whenever Fury berates him for his mind not being in the game and a threat to the safety of the team. Hank tends not to realise her devotion to him by bargaining her membership for his, and defending him to Fury. This creates distance between them until her life becomes viably threatened by something and breaks Hank out of his shell to be the hero he wants to be but doesn't believe he can be.

Like it a lot!

 

[chris moore]

See - gives them an important role and significant character development without overshadowing anyone else or pointlessly introducing a personality trait/relationship that gets more screen time than it needs on its own.

I really don't get people's problems with including the Pyms.
You have the kind of interaction with ramifications for the team as a whole that I outlined above.
You introduce them in a similar fashion to how the Avengers formed, by making them founding members, but with the twist that rather than Rick Jones sending out a radio transmission to get help to deal with the threat, the Pyms (and Hawkeye on security detail for their South American research) discover a major threat and send out the word while simultaneously accidentally getting their powers (see probably two pages back for that), which brings Fury and a team of agents in to help. On recovering Clint, Hank, and Jan, the threat becomes obvious that its one the Avengers initiative is being created for.

And there you go! Sensible intro, sensible character importance, genuine ties to the original books, faithful characterisation, and variation of power sets. What's to hate?

 

[chris moore]

The Pym's are in a remote part of South America. Hank is doing research on some pockets of strange energy he detected, which he believes may prove be a natural source of some extra-dimensional particles he has recently synthesised. His work is jointly funded by the government, and Janet Pym's father's company. Their babysitter is S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Clint Barton, callsign: Hawkeye. He hasn't been given this assignment because he's disgraced or anything. But because the nature of the work is too secretive to risk involving too many people, and Hawkeye is so frickin' good that he's better than a whole security team.

Movie starts:
While conducting a monitoring experiment away from the lab in the jungle, Hank discovers this pocket is not what he was looking for and that energy from it is being drawn away from the immediate area, and the three of them trace is back to the source. They discover this to be a group of men conducting experiments on some locals. Hawkeye recognises the leader as Baron Zemo, grandson of the WW2 Nazi war criminal. Hank deduces the experiments are siphoning off what appears to be ionic energy from the energy pockets, and attempting to infuse the locals with it.

Spotted, Zemo's men try to kill them, and Hawkeye easily takes down several before telling Hank and Jan to get back to the transport, reach safety, and bring Fury up to speed. They make it back to the lab, but a few of the bad guys who evaded Clint are right behind.

Inside, Hank realises the firefight risks destabilising the containment field surrounding his newly synthesised Pym particles, and begins trying to disconnect the cylinder. He's right. As Jan manages to hit the panic button to alert S.H.I.E.L.D, a grenade launcher causes a massive explosion that ruptures the containment field, and the Pym particles surge into the room, enveloping Hank and Jan, and everything else in the lab.

Here's the kicker - Hank, wanting to protect Jan reflexively thinks of shielding her with his body. Jan reflexively thinks of hiding. The resultant mental stresses cause the Pym particles infusing Hank's body to shunt mass to him, while they affect Jan in the opposite way, shrinking her. All the inorganics in the room however, simply become unstable and trigger an even bigger explosion that kills the three guys attacking them, and knocks Hank (shielding Jan, but now increasing in mass and durability) unconscious. Hawkeye returns later to find an unconscious Hank lying naked on the jungle floor, with Jan lying on his chest. Except Hank is at least 30ft tall (not his upper limit), and Jan is only a couple inches tall (not her lower limit). Hawkeye (not having a clue what the hell is going on) recovers some comm equipment and tries to get a signal - just as several S.H.I.E.L.D choppers appear above the jungle canopy. Comment from Hawkeye.

The opening credits roll. All this could be done well in about 10 minutes as the fight only needs to begin before Hank and Jan get sent running and we leave Hawkeye to do the rest of his thing offscreen.

Main plot leading on - grandson of Nazi war criminal and master race scientist attempting to create an army of ionic powered soldiers. Cap brought in because of his familiarity with the Zemo's during WW2. Eventually the energy turns out to be extra-dimensional in that it originates from one of the nine worlds and Loki has been leaking it through to Midgard in order to provide Zemo with his army which he then hopes to use himself to assault Asgard.

 

[UnkillableMick]

Here's my idea.

Disney logo. Marvel Logo. BLACKNESS. The Arctic Ocean. Ice floats by as the credits roll. The camera bursts out of the water to reveal boats, hovercrafts, helicopters and an enormous Helicarrier above the water as THE AVENGERS appears onscreen.

Onboard the Helicarrier. Agent Coulson stalks down a hallway, looking nervous. He enters Nick Fury's room and says "he's onboard." Fury tells Coulson to notify the Pyms.

Lab. SHIELD scientists Hank and Janet Pym stand over the frozen body of Captain America.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, better to have them already established and working with SHIELD. It's not like they got their powers by an accident. Pym's a self made man after all.

 

[chris moore]

The Avengers starting with the thawing of Cap means that a good deal of the movie would most likely have to focus on his reintegration into society and his coping with the modern world. That makes it X1 where sure there were other X-Men in it, but it was pretty much Wolverine 1.
Although if it were handled like the Ultimates thawing, or the threat came along fast enough or was linked to their success in finding Cap, then it might be possible to organically demonstrate Cap's adaptation to the situation.

 

[UnkillableMick]

The Avengers starting with the thawing of Cap means that a good deal of the movie would most likely have to focus on his reintegration into society and his coping with the modern world. That makes it X1 where sure there were other X-Men in it, but it was pretty much Wolverine 1.
Although if it were handled like the Ultimates thawing, or the threat came along fast enough or was linked to their success in finding Cap, then it might be possible to organically demonstrate Cap's adaptation to the situation.

It's already been confirmed that Avengers will deal with Cap's thawing and reintegration into the modern world.

 

[roach]

where was that confirmed

 

[UnkillableMick]

where was that confirmed

I can't find a link anywhere, but I know I read somewhere someone saying that The Avengers would be the second half of Cap's origin.

 

[roach]

I can't find a link anywhere, but I know I read somewhere someone saying that The Avengers would be the second half of Cap's origin.

I havent seen anything that said that...not that I am the authority on all quotes about the Avengers. I think that would be a bad step because 1) What if Cap flops and the GA doesnt really care about Cap and 2) It takes away from character moments for Cap 2

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It's already been confirmed that Avengers will deal with Cap's thawing and reintegration into the modern world.

I thought it would deal with that. I assumed that of the main 4 Avengers, Cap would probably get the most focus because of that situation.

 

[chris moore]

I don't remember hearing that either.
But like I said, if the thawing/discovery occurs because of the main threat, or as the main threat appears, then it could be an opportunity to showcase Cap's adaptation skills by after initial panic and mistrust he realises what is required of him and pushes down all that fear of being alone and that realisation that everyone he loves is dead. Montage of rapidly learning computers skills and going over DoD reports etc (akin to Tony's Mark 2 design and building sequence - and not any longer), with some friendly visits from team members as he grows to see he has a new unit assembling around him.

But then maybe the thawing could be integrated into the opening scene with the Pyms and Hawkeye. Make it an arctic research expedition as the northen lights, blue ice etc have all been suggested to have special properties. Could be a similar source the Pyms are looking for when they stumble across Zemo's lot. A resultant explosion opens up a crevasse and sends the Pyms and their lab down into it. The containment field destabilises, releases the Pym particles, and gives them their powers. Hawkeye gets back to base just as SHIELD choppers arrive and Zemo's lot scatter. He slides down the steep sides of the crevasse to get to the Pyms where he finds (as before) Hank unconscious but 30ft tall, with Jan unconscious but 6" tall. Looking up he also sees at the end of the cavern opened up by the explosion - what looks like a man sized shape in a wall of ice. Suitable comment.

 

[roach]

im pretty sure they said he was going to be thawed out at the end of Cap

 

[Anubis]

I don't remember hearing that either.
But like I said, if the thawing/discovery occurs because of the main threat, or as the main threat appears, then it could be an opportunity to showcase Cap's adaptation skills by after initial panic and mistrust he realises what is required of him and pushes down all that fear of being alone and that realisation that everyone he loves is dead. Montage of rapidly learning computers skills and going over DoD reports etc (akin to Tony's Mark 2 design and building sequence - and not any longer), with some friendly visits from team members as he grows to see he has a new unit assembling around him.

But then maybe the thawing could be integrated into the opening scene with the Pyms and Hawkeye. Make it an arctic research expedition as the northen lights, blue ice etc have all been suggested to have special properties. Could be a similar source the Pyms are looking for when they stumble across Zemo's lot. A resultant explosion opens up a crevasse and sends the Pyms and their lab down into it. The containment field destabilises, releases the Pym particles, and gives them their powers. Hawkeye gets back to base just as SHIELD choppers arrive and Zemo's lot scatter. He slides down the steep sides of the crevasse to get to the Pyms where he finds (as before) Hank unconscious but 30ft tall, with Jan unconscious but 6" tall. Looking up he also sees at the end of the cavern opened up by the explosion - what looks like a man sized shape in a wall of ice. Suitable comment.

NO ACCIDENTAL POWERS!

 

[chris moore]

The problem with intentional powers is that unless you have an Abraham Erskine situation where the only person who knows the process dies, there is absolutely nothing to stop Fury from forcing Hank to duplicate Pym particle exposure on a bunch of Marines, thereby creating an army of Giant Men and making Hank and Jan's presence superfluous.

Besides which, why in the semi-realistic world these movies are being set in, would Hank allow his girlfriend to expose herself to superpowers just to join him on teeny adventures in ant land? Testing the process on himself because he's impatient - sure. But not repeating it on his girlfriend unless she's in dire straits... or its an accident

 

[roach]

The problem with intentional powers is that unless you have an Abraham Erskine situation where the only person who knows the process dies, there is absolutely nothing to stop Fury from forcing Hank to duplicate Pym particle exposure on a bunch of Marines, thereby creating an army of Giant Men and making Hank and Jan's presence superfluous.

They could come up with something to explain that away..using your same theory whats to prevent Fury from having Tony build a bunch of suits for a bunch of Marines or Shield agents

Besides which, why in the semi-realistic world these movies are being set in, would Hank allow his girlfriend to expose herself to superpowers just to join him on teeny adventures in ant land? Testing the process on himself because he's impatient - sure. But not repeating it on his girlfriend unless she's in dire straits... or its an accident

you are assuming that they would be two scientists and not two test subjects that are picked for the project...or that Hank is the scientist and Jan is the test subject

 

[the dmg]

The problem with intentional powers is that unless you have an Abraham Erskine situation where the only person who knows the process dies, there is absolutely nothing to stop Fury from forcing Hank to duplicate Pym particle exposure on a bunch of Marines, thereby creating an army of Giant Men and making Hank and Jan's presence superfluous.

If Fury wanted to, he could have easily taken the IM suits to reverse engineer the technology and mass produce for an army because he was able to bypass JARVIS, but he didn't. So why would he do the same with them?

 

[Anubis]

Basically.

 

[chris moore]

In the case of biological powers though, the best part of them is often that they'll never happen again so we get nice unique heroes. Cap was intentional but the creator died and no one else has been able to do it. Hulk was accidental, and an attempt to recreate it without him didn't work. Even Tony, as much as his abilities come from the suit, the ACCIDENT (although intentional attack) that caused shrapnel to get so close to his heart forced him to build something to save his life - but it went on from there because the circumstances forced him to turn that into a wepon to save his life.
With the Pyms, the original story simply had Hank testing the particles on himself - for no reason. I mean, I know we didn't get on the page if he conducting endless in vitro experiments on cell lines, or progressed to animals or anything. But the intentional exposure to a new particle type without any forced reason like a threat or something is just plain daft. If Hank refused to give up the secret of how he discovered the particles - then sure he would be the only one (unless his research was funded by the government or something, cos he doesn't have his own billions sitting around like Tony, in which case the government could fully force him to reveal the process). But if its a simple matter of getting your hands on Hanks stash of Pym particles and drinking the solution, battering yourself with a ray etc, and its already been proven safe cos Hank aint dead - then in this case, there'd be nothing and no reason to stop Fury from taking them.

 

[roach]

But we know that Hank and Jan arent the only growing and shrinking people in the Marvel universe.

 

[The Geek Vault]

I want to see the Pym's as scientists and in the second one they become heroes. Also I don't think War Machine is going to be in Avengers at the end of Iron Man 2 he tells Tony he can have his suit back. I think the line up will be ...

Iron Man
Captain America
Thor
Hulk
with Nick Fury, Black Widow and Hawkeye coming in only when completely necessary.