The Walking Dead "The Walking Dead" General Stuff & Thaaaangs Thread - Part 10

[Elevator Man]

@Leenie
I agree with you about season 4, which was a definite improvement over season 3, imo. Character-driven is how I've described season 4 as well. And that's what I admire most about it. Season 4 gets a lot of unnecessary flack also. I don’t think that’s fair b/c that season had to deal with some of the baggage Mazzera left from the previous season.

Rick, Carol, Michonne, Carl, Daryl, and even the Governor each go through an arc. I guess some critics mistake character development for boredom.

Season 4 dealt with a lot of interesting subplots, plot lines, and characters e.g. Rick resigning from leader to farmer to shield Carl and himself from the zombie apocalypse, while slowly and inevitably succumbing to the savagery of it, the zombie flu outbreak, Michonne's backstory, Carol becoming one of the strongest characters of the show, Rick banishing Carol for committing reprehensible act, the return of the Gov., fall of the prison, group being separated, "The Grove", the introduction of Abe, Eugene, & Rosita and their mission to travel to D.C. to put an end to the zombie apocalypse, the Claimers, Terminus, etc.

My main dislike was Tyreese becoming unlikable and weak, which unfortunately escalated the following season.

 

[Leenie]

@Leenie
I agree with you about season 4, which was a definite improvement over season 3, imo. Character-driven is how I've described season 4 as well. And that's what I admire most about it. Season 4 gets a lot of unnecessary flack also. I don’t think that’s fair b/c that season had to deal with some of the baggage Mazzera left from the previous season.

Rick, Carol, Michonne, Carl, Daryl, and even the Governor each go through an arc. I guess some critics mistake character development for boredom.

Season 4 dealt with a lot of interesting subplots, plot lines, and characters e.g. Rick resigning from leader to farmer to shield Carl and himself from the zombie apocalypse, while slowly and inevitably succumbing to the savagery of it, the zombie flu outbreak, Michonne's backstory, Carol becoming one of the strongest characters of the show, Rick banishing Carol for committing reprehensible act, the return of the Gov., fall of the prison, group being separated, "The Grove", the introduction of Abe, Eugene, & Rosita and their mission to travel to D.C. to put an end to the zombie apocalypse, the Claimers, Terminus, etc.

My main dislike was Tyreese becoming unlikable and weak, which unfortunately escalated the following season.

I pretty much agree with everything here.

I found Tyreese to be very likable in many ways (I mean, he saved the baby! He also forgave Carol; he was seriously a good person). He was undoubtedly weak, though. I don't like how the show portrayed his niceness as weakness, and I think the show really screwed up in season 5 with that. The writers pretty much wrote themselves into a corner with Tyreese to the point where they had to kill him off, which is very unfortunate. Tyreese altogether was a missed opportunity for the show. It's a shame, because I love the actor they cast for the character.

 

[Broseph44]

He was a missed opportunity for sure.

 

[Schlosser85]

Tyreese felt pointless. It was like they just randomly killed him off because they didn't know what to do with him. Probably partly because his purpose was already largely served by Daryl.

I didn't like the show's Tyreese most of the time. He was too angsty and whiny. It got old.

 

[Elevator Man]

I pretty much agree with everything here.

I found Tyreese to be very likable in many ways (I mean, he saved the baby! He also forgave Carol; he was seriously a good person). He was undoubtedly weak, though. I don't like how the show portrayed his niceness as weakness, and I think the show really screwed up in season 5 with that. The writers pretty much wrote themselves into a corner with Tyreese to the point where they had to kill him off, which is very unfortunate. Tyreese altogether was a missed opportunity for the show. It's a shame, because I love the actor they cast for the character.

I see where you coming from. Tyreese was a noble person with morals. No doubt. I just didn't like how he suddenly turned weak by resigning from duties as going out on supply runs and clearing the prison fences from hordes of walkers b/c he didn't like it. I mean what good is he to the group then.

He became unlikable for me during 0403-0404 after Karen died. I understood he loved Karen and that he wanted justice for her and David but he went about it the wrong way. Attacking the only two people (Rick and Daryl) who tried to help him cope, then barked orders at Rick and demanded he find Karen's killer.

Then becoming careless, when he joined Daryl, Michonne, and Bob on the supply run for antibiotics e.g. sitting in a car being surrounded by walkers, and when he was ridding that abandoned auto repair shop of those vines and refusing to let go of the walker that came at him. There wasn't any need for that kind of behavior when the sick people at the prison, which also included his own sister and Glenn, were counting on him to get the medication to survive. All this reckless behavior and hostility over a woman we as a viewer hardly knew, was unnecessary drama, imo. Sure it paid off in "The Grove" and Gimple was giving Tyreese an arc about forgiveness, but I just wasn't a fan.

 

[Leenie]

I see where you coming from. Tyreese was a noble person with morals. No doubt. I just didn't like how he suddenly turned weak by resigning from duties as going out on supply runs and clearing the prison fences from hordes of walkers b/c he didn't like it. I mean what good is he to the group then.

He became unlikable for me during 0403-0404 after Karen died. I understood he loved Karen and that he wanted justice for her and David but he went about it the wrong way. Attacking the only two people (Rick and Daryl) who tried to help him cope, then barked orders at Rick and demanded he find Karen's killer.

Then becoming careless, when he joined Daryl, Michonne, and Bob on the supply run for antibiotics e.g. sitting in a car being surrounded by walkers, and when he was ridding that abandoned auto repair shop of those vines and refusing to let go of the walker that came at him. There wasn't any need for that kind of behavior when the sick people at the prison, which also included his own sister and Glenn, were counting on him to get the medication to survive. All this reckless behavior and hostility over a woman we as a viewer hardly knew, was unnecessary drama, imo. Sure it paid off in "The Grove" and Gimple was giving Tyreese an arc about forgiveness, but I just wasn't a fan.

Yup, that's why I think the show depicted Tyreese's compassion as weakness; that if you care about the living, then you don't have the mental stamina to make it in the apocalypse. As a result, we see Tyreese in the series as someone who is overly emotional and unstable, and that's almost the only side we got to see from him in the show. Very unfortunate.

I would have been more okay with Tyreese's end game if he had stayed alive a lot longer for him to progress (or deteriorate, rather) to that fragile point. We barely get to know him in season 3, and the next thing we see from him is emotional instability. It would have been nice to see Tyreese's compassion work well for him for a while until a certain point. His character development was very, very rushed.

 

[Reek]

Just bring in Negan already, it's the only hope!

 

[Teelie]

Rumors have again run rampant Negan will be showing up near the end of the season, maybe the second or third episode prior to the finale.

 

[Kane52630]

#neverfoget

 

[Sawyer]

Rumors have again run rampant Negan will be showing up near the end of the season, maybe the second or third episode prior to the finale.

The casting call that seemed to indicate Negan's involvement was for 6x16, I believe.

 

[FrozenBanana00]

God I hated Negan in the comics. He was such an ass. It'll be great to see his evilness on screen though.

 

[BrollySupersj]

In all season 6 promos, we see a Walker covered in mud, and practically a skeleton. It has no eyes, ears, and nose. So how can it possibly detect anything around? Details like this really make me suspect the cause of the Walkers is supernatural, and not scientific.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I thought Walkers would eventually decay to the point they were no longer a threat. If skeletons are walking around then that seems to go against what we've seen / heard so far.

 

[demitri_vampiro]

great show, but a few things are a bit off.

the walkers are very slow moving and its weird that throughout the show you see small groups camping in the open, but military, which is organised, didnt survive. military bases are well protected from outsiders, they have fuel reserves and weapons.
marine should be up and running since walkers cant swim.

also sometimes it is presented how dangerous it is being in unprotected areas like woods, but other times we see characters walk or rest as if there is no danger.

 

[Leenie]

Well, season 5 is on Netflix now; decided to start watching it.

I'm currently on the second episode of this season. While the first three episodes of the season are pretty great overall, there's some really, really dumb stuff here and there.

Bob's death could have totally been prevented. It was so dumb of the group to go down in that hole with the water zombies in the first place, but why did they push that one shelf over? Just to save Gabriel (who bailed on the group)? They didn't need him alive at all, and using the shelves as a shield from the zombies was working extremely well before they pushed one down! Yeah, really dumb. I had forgotten how silly that was.

 

[Nightmare]

Anxious to hear your thoughts on the rest of the season..

 

[Man in the Suit]

TV Review: ‘The Walking Dead,’ Season 6

Picking up where season 5 left off, while embarking on new plots, “The Walking Dead” looks very much at the top of its game, with strong character material mixed with a massive set piece in the extended premiere made possible, no doubt, by its enormous popularity. Blessed and cursed with a vagabond mentality, the first episode finds the gang still trying to fit into a gated community, where the promise of security is balanced against the cultural clash separating the battle-hardened travelers from those sheltered within. Add one familiar face to the mix, and it’s a pretty irresistible feast.

Said face belongs to Lennie James, who appeared in the show’s early days, an actor who has a way of classing up whatever joint he visits. James’ Morgan turned up again at the close of last season, and having known Rick (Andrew Lincoln), the square-jawed sheriff, in those days when he could honestly proclaim, “We don’t kill the living,” it’s fascinating to see the character through his old pal’s eyes. James also has a couple of priceless little scenes with co-stars Melissa McBride and Danai Gurira, underscoring the gallows humor that’s found in this script from showrunner Scott M. Gimple and Matthew Negrete.

Of course, “Walking Dead” features a large ensemble, and has a way of shedding them when one least expects it. One of the challenges with this current crop is that they’re such a tough group it’s hard to see some of the more recent additions succumbing, and as with some of last season’s casualties, most fans would likely hate to lose them.

That said, the show has constantly reinvented itself by both shifting venues and turning over characters, a formula that has kept the program’s soap opera aspects fresh, even if the threat from marauding zombies remains continuous. The real treat in this episode, on that score, involves a detailed operation deftly chronicled in flashback, cutting back and forth between its implementing and planning.

Granted, “The Walking Dead” has a way of front-loading its seasons (witness last year’s spectacular escape from Terminus) and wrapping them up with major cliffhangers, while meandering a bit – sort of like a you know what – in between. What bodes somewhat better this time around is not only the return of James but the fact that the main cast can at least initially be found in the same place, creating interactions that tend to be lost when the group gets scattered. There’s also an intriguing dynamic in Rick especially trying to educate the community he’s inherited and its leader (Tovah Feldshuh), essentially preaching a maxim from the movie “Wyatt Earp,” in which the hero says, “This is a harsh land. It doesn’t suffer fools.”

In a perverse way, AMC’s experiment with spinoff “Fear the Walking Dead” only enhances the original, having demonstrated that even a zombie apocalypse can be rendered mundane and lifeless by plodding storytelling and weak characters. And while the ratings were unsurprisingly good enough to justify a renewal, those six weeks in L.A. have likely done nothing quite so much as stoke appetites for another gory helping of the real deal.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/reviews/...eview-andrew-lincoln-lennie-james-1201601890/

 

[danoyse]

My tickets for the fan premiere at Madison Square Garden came in tonight. One more week!!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

TV Review: ‘The Walking Dead,’ Season 6

http://variety.com/2015/tv/reviews/...eview-andrew-lincoln-lennie-james-1201601890/

Awesome, can't wait, just halfway through season 4 now of my rewatch, the Governor was such a good villain and played so well. Got season 5 arriving next week as well so will binge that before season 6 starts.

 

[Broseph44]

I'm so ready for season 6. I have always loved this show through each season. Even when people though it was slow and what not. Character development people, stuff like that makes a huge difference. This is one of my favorite shows. I need it back. This fear the walking dead ******** is so sad and bad. Give me the real ****.

 

[Leenie]

I finished rewatching the first half of season 5, which has its high points and its rock bottom/near-shark jumping points.

I actually tried to sit through the hospital stuff again, but I ended up fast-fowarding through a lot of parts. The hospital storyline makes zero sense, and I'd much rather rewatch season 2 about a dozen more times than this tripe. The only hospital episode I watched the entire way through was the one with Carol and Daryl, because duh; it's Carol and Daryl.

The things about the mid-season finale that still blow my mind in all of wrong ways: Why did the group just LET Dawn take Noah? Rick is a former sheriff, for crying out loud. How does no one know how negotiations work? Dawn had NO leverage in the situation whatsoever, but the group still folded. And the way that Beth got herself killed was beyond stupid (even T-Dog's death was far better than hers; at least he saved Carol). Can't even stab the wench in the neck, Beth? You picked her shoulder? LOL. I'm channeling Comic Book Guy here: Worst Walking Dead moment ever.

There are a lot of unanswered questions about the hospital storyline, too: The house where Beth and Daryl got a lot of supplies before the bombardment of walkers came in? The same one with the funeral home? What the heck was up with that house? Was is just a house with bait for the hospital to lure possible victims in? But if that was the case, then why was the funeral home there? How did Daryl and Beth not know that walkers were behind the door with Daryl's trap? The walkers would have made a louder noise than a dog with that trap, which led me to believe that someone had planted the walkers there, but nope! None of this is explained. This is a prime example of bad writing.

I'm looking forward to the second half of season 5. I remember the Tyreese episode also being beyond stupid, but I loved the rest of it. Hopefully it still holds up.

 

[Elevator Man]

I agree that they could've written a better exit for Beth's character. I know I'm in the minority on this but the Beth/Dawn/Grady Hospital arc didn't bother me as much as it did others. Beth grew on me as a character. She became more than just a human jukebox/Judith's babysitter/dead shirt who was mostly kept in the background.

I'll get into my personal problems with season 5, which I thought was a solid season, once you finish re-watching the 2nd half.

 

[Kane52630]

Fear the Walking Dead Flight 462: Part 1

 

[Leenie]

I finished the second half of season 5. I breezed through it, actually. The only episode I disliked in the second half is the one where Tyreese died. His "visions" came across as a power point presentation; I thought it was laughably bad, and painfully dragged out. Tyreese: A character with wasted potential ...

After that episode, though, the season really picked up. I absolutely love the Alexandria episodes in this season, for several reasons. Firstly, the show desperately needed a different setting/change of pace. Secondly, the different setting allowed for a LOT of character development/growth. And Lastly, the season ends with a great setup for the next season. I think that season 5's finale is the strongest finale of the whole series thus far.

I'm excited for Sunday now.

 

[Elevator Man]

I enjoyed season 5 overall and thought it was a strong season for the most part. But off the top of my head here’s a few complaints that I have about it.

Tyreese becoming more of a liability than valued member to the group.

He didn’t kill Martin after he threatened to take Judith‘s life and even Tyreese‘s own. I know the death of Micah, Lizzie, and his girlfriend Karen traumatized him, but it was asinine how he refused to kill a walker that was a couple of feet away from him, Carol, and Judith at the beginning of “No Sanctuary”. Again I know he has morals and he’s trying not to let this post apocalyptic world change him the way it’s changed Rick and Carol, but anyone/thing that’s a threat to him and his group should be dealt with immediately.

Then Tyreese telling Sasha to forgive the termites/hunters, who cut off and ate half of Bob’s leg and were scheming to kill them and the group. Seriously?

His plan B overriding Rick’s plan A to rescue Beth from the Grady Hospital backfired.

So in season 4 Tyreese with just his hammer survived a horde of walkers surrounding him outside of a car without a scratch but for some reason can’t detect a snarling walker (in a mostly vacant house )coming up from behind him and eventually taking a bite out of his arm. BS!

There really wasn’t any hope for this character to improve in Season 5. And though I thought the episode where Tyreese bit the dust was well made and acted. I just wasn’t emotionally invested in it b/c I found the character poorly written.

This season had a difficult time balancing characters.

Season 5 was probably the largest group Rick’s had. And b/c of that some characters suffered screen time e.g. Rosita. Certain characters were either in the background with little to no lines. And even being absent for certain episodes e.g. Gabriel (during the first couple of Alexandria episodes). With the show adding more characters the writers resort to tactics like putting Tara into a coma.

It was strange that the episode of Rick‘s meltdown, which followed after Maggie eavesdrop on Gabriel’s deceitful conversation with Deanna, that both characters were surprisingly absent. It’s very questionable why that is b/c I think Gabriel and Maggie should’ve been in that scene, where Rick had his meltdown. It would’ve definitely added even more weight to that great moment. I hope Gimple and co. figure this out in season 6 b/c from the looks of it they’re introducing quite a bit of new characters this upcoming season.

Carol being temporarily written out for most first half of the season.

Something else I’ve notice in the first half of each season (since season 3) the writers been finding ways to take Carol temporarily out of the plot/story.

In season 3 after T-Dog sacrificed himself to save her she was presumed dead by the group, but was later discovered by Daryl and was trapped behind a closed door with a walker blocking the front of it. So she was absent for about 2 or 3 episodes.

In season 4 Rick banished Carol for the murders of Karen and David and hadn’t showed up again until the second episode of mid season 4. But that actually worked from a story stand point.

Then in season 5 she and Daryl went to Atlanta to find and rescue Beth but was then injured and abducted by the Grady Memorial deputies. During that point she was unconscious for most of that period until Beth’s demise.

The point I’m trying to make is that it’s getting repetitive and even predictable how Carol is always being used to write out of the story for a short amount of time just b/c they’re having a hard time shuffling the large cast screen time. Hopefully that’ll be the last they attempt this with Carol.

Maggie being oblivious to Beth’s absence.

Daryl told her in “No Sanctuary” (season 5 premiere) that Beth was abducted and was last seen alive by him. He even gave a description of the vehicle that took her. Maggie is reminded again that she has a missing little sister when Michonne mentions they’ve found her ("Coda" Mid-season 5 finale).

Now I know at that point finding Beth is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. And for all she knew the people who abducted Beth might’ve killed her already. My problem is the writers never gave us a moment that reflects this. She was quick to travel to DC with Glenn and some strangers, but never thought about Beth.

I’m also surprised nobody in Rick’s or Abe’s group knew about the vehicles with the crosses on the back came from Grady Memorial. B/c based on her conversations with Daryl (in “Consumed“) Carol seemed to have visited that area in Atlanta (pre-zombie apocalypse) quite often.

They should’ve added a moment where Maggie makes a difficult decision to go to DC and mentions to the group that she believes Beth is either dead or isn’t (as Rick did about Andrea’s absence from the group during the Season 2 finale). Maggie won’t search for her b/c it would be an impossible task and she’d be better off not knowing the truth about Beth’s whereabouts. It’s callous but would give the viewer an explanation as to why Maggie seemed to neglect her own sister being alive and missing. Heck adding a simple conversation with Glenn (during “Self Help”) where she mentions to him that she misses Beth and wonders if she’d like DC or if she‘s alive and safe, etc would’ve given us an idea that she thought about or even remembers Beth.

That really seemed out of character for Maggie to forget her own sister, who I thought she had a strong bond with three seasons prior. I wish “Them” could’ve explored more of Maggie’s guilt b/c I honestly think the writers gave us an inadequate excuse. Though I'm a Maggie fan, I wasn’t a fan of how they handled Maggie in season 5 and hope they make up for it this upcoming season.

DC subplot was unfocused.

It was made a big deal out of in mid season 4, but not so much this season. The trip to DC never seemed that important to Rick or even Carol. I wish we had a moment where the group was divided about going or not. It would‘ve added more weight. And would’ve been interesting seeing some of them question Rick’s decision to stay or go. I guess we kind of got that in “The Distance” when Rick was conflicted about going to Alexandria.

Also Eugene’s lie got swept under the rug and didn’t leave that big of an impact as it should’ve. We never got to see Rick’s reaction to the lie. Michonne didn’t seemed surprised when Glenn told her, but that wasn‘t enough, imo. I would’ve liked a moment where the group mentioning it and giving their opinions about it. And Eugene having to earn everybody’s trust again.

Plus the 17 day time jump after Beth died undermined it. They only made it to DC by default. If they hadn’t somewhat fulfilled Beth’s promise to get Noah to his family at a safe zone in Virginia and crossed paths with Aaron they wouldn’t be in DC right now.

Pete being a "gifted" doctor

The writers did a poor job of proving to me that Pete’s a doctor. Sure the show has scenes of characters telling us he is, but never actually showing us.

On the way to Alexandria Aaron pointed out to Noah that he knew a gifted surgeon who could fix his limp. “I’ve seen him do some amazing things” or something or other. But the writer’s never gave us evidence that Pete’s a doctor or even a gifted one for that matter. Not once in the show did we as a viewer see him helping and healing people. All we’ve seen of the character is that he drinks 24-7, smokes, talks to Rick but pretty much does nothing of any importance in Alexandria.

We never see him helping Tara with her head injury. Carol had to request him to help Tara before threatening to kill him. I never believe for a second that he was doctor. Town drunk, but not a gifted doctor. That’s again b/c of poor writing.

They could’ve easily solved the problem by writing a scene where the group first enters the gates and he’s giving each check ups and relieving Eric’s ankle injury. During “Spend” in the aftermath with the construction crew being temporarily overran by walkers they could’ve showed him attending to Francine’s injury. They could’ve done a better job of writing the character. He came off one dimensional. He’s basically Ed Peletier 2.0.

Jessie being a victim of domestic abuse.

The writers also could’ve done a better job of showing the viewer that Jessie was being beaten by Pete. For someone who’s constantly getting beaten she has no visible scars or bruises. And b/c of that I had a hard time believing she was a victim of domestic abuse.

Again they decided not to show but only tell. We get this information that Jessie’s being beaten off camera. Jessie’s youngest son Sam tells Carol (off camera) who then tells Rick. I guess they were trying to avoid the clichés but it came off kind of dull and uninteresting, imo.

I’m not someone who enjoys watching women (let alone Alexandra Breckenridge) being abused, but I wish they could’ve hinted at it better that Jessie was a victim of spousal abuse.

And what really ticked me off about that whole situation was that Deanna knew about it and didn’t do anything to prevent it b/c Pete’s “occupation“. And b/c of that I lost what little respect I had for her character. It disgusted me b/c she’s a woman/leader (who I thought had morals) that was okay with another woman being abused by her husband. She sets a real good example for Alexandria.

Unnecessary drama caused by Gabriel in Alexandria.

I also didn’t care for the subplot with Gabriel twisting the truth about Rick’s group to Deanna b/c the writers didn’t take it anywhere. They made a big deal about Maggie eavesdropping the conversation to not go anywhere with it. The entire following episode both characters were suspiciously absent.

And Maggie seemed to keep what she heard to herself. She could’ve told Glenn and gave an explanation why she didn’t tell Rick or the others. For example b/c she feared for Gabriel‘s life.

In “Conquer” Deanna mentioned about that conversation at the meeting and nobody in Rick’s group bat an eye. We saw Maggie react? But she already knew about it. I guess the writers decided to give Maggie a short term memory this season.

The point I’m making is that if the writers didn’t want to make a big deal about Gabriel twisting the truth about Rick to Deanna then they could’ve omitted Maggie eavesdropping on it. It didn’t really add much to the story, imo.



Now don’t get me wrong I enjoyed this season and still think it’s a great season overall. Carol officially became a valued member of the group, the fall of Terminus, “Tainted Meat!”, the demise of the termites/hunters at the church, Beth/ Dawn hospital plotline (I know I’m in the minority on that one), Abe’s back story, Carol/Daryl centric episode in Atlanta, “Them“ (which is an underrated episode that captured the essence of TWD, imo), Alexandria, Morgan’s return. This season had a lot of pros that outweigh the cons I had with it. Bring on Season 6.

Oh and I apologize for the long post. Had to get this off my chest.