The Worst President in History?

Admiral_N8 said:
Ok, gotcha :up:

But I wouldnt form an opinion on the entire population of Bush-voters based on just your area...not saying you did though. :supes:

it wouldn't be in my place to ;)
 
Admiral_N8 said:
Ah here we go, the "Bush fixed the election because he knew EXACTLY which county [out of the 10s of thousands] he had to fix" crowd.

How can you call it the religious vote? Kerry and Bush are the same religion. If they voted based on their religion how would that have worked?

Is it really so hard to believe that people in Ohio just didnt like Kerry?

it's because even though kerry was a religious man, he would have allowed abortion and gay marriage. and abstinence plus
 
Abaddon said:
30 years from now,he'll be remembered as a hero.

Bush-style thinking at it's finest. "We will be greeted as liberators." :rolleyes:
 
JoLiE_MeNdEz said:
it's because even though kerry was a religious man, he would have allowed abortion and gay marriage. and abstinence plus

So its not about their religion, its about thier policies.
 
Carter, Buchanon, A. Johnson, Jackson, Polk, L. Johnson, Kennedy, Hoover, McKinley, and Harding are worse than Bush.
 
In all the history classes I've taken, Grant is pretty much thought of as a bad president.
 
Abaddon said:
Not exactly. I think history will be a little more forgiving.

I hope not. I'm going to make it my mission to make sure everybody I meet throughout my life who didn't live during the Bush administration knows how bad he was.
 
Admiral_N8 said:
So its not about their religion, its about thier policies.

no it's about some of the voters religious beliefs getting in the way. as i stated many people here spoke out that he was a baby killer and a *** lover. saying it was against what they believed in. the ones that i talked to anyway, which were many.
 
Matt said:
Yea...by default shouldn't William Henry Harrison be the worst president? The dude did LITERALLY nothing. He died in 30 days because he was too stubborn to wear a coat on a below freezing day. By default he has to be the worst president.

He's one of the worst b/c he had practically no agenda and got office by lying (they made him look to be a man of the people saying he was born in a log cabin even though he wasn't.)
 
KingOfDreams said:
I hope not. I'm going to make it my mission to make sure everybody I meet throughout my life who didn't live during the Bush administration knows how bad he was.


And you'll be the old crotchety man nobody listens to. Its out of our hands.
 
Spidey-Bat said:
He's one of the worst b/c he had practically no agenda and got office by lying (they made him look to be a man of the people saying he was born in a log cabin even though he wasn't.)

To a lesser extent, Bush was touted as a common man/man of the people too though he was born rich.
 
Admiral_N8 said:
Ah here we go, the "Bush fixed the election because he knew EXACTLY which county [out of the 10s of thousands] he had to fix" crowd.

How can you call it the religious vote? Kerry and Bush are the same religion. If they voted based on their religion how would that have worked?

Is it really so hard to believe that people in Ohio just didnt like Kerry?

Rule 1 of politics. People vote with their wallets. They didn't do that in Ohio. They voted on religion...as for fixing of the Cuyohoga...it is the largest county in Ohio, Bush knew damn well he needed it to win Ohio. What about Ohio's Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell promising Bush he had nothing to worry about? The odds the majority of a predominantly (75 %) black, democrat county, suddenly deciding "I'm voting Bush" are astronomical. Ohio's election was queerer than a 2 dollar bill.
 
JoLiE_MeNdEz said:
no it's about some of the voters religious beliefs getting in the way. as i stated many people here spoke out that he was a baby killer and a *** lover. saying it was against what they believed in. the ones that i talked to anyway, which were many.

How does thinking you kill babies in abortion mean you are religious? I know many athiests who are against abortion.
 
KingOfDreams said:
To a lesser extent, Bush was touted as a common man/man of the people too though he was born rich.


Well he was touted as a common man in that he was simple-minded and wasn't very eloquent. He didn't come off as the kind of demagogue most people have in their minds when they think of politicians.
 
hippie_hunter said:
Carter, Buchanon, A. Johnson, Jackson, Polk, L. Johnson, Kennedy, Hoover, McKinley, and Harding are worse than Bush.

Regardless of your personal disdain for Kennedy, Jackson, and LBJ...they are considered by historians to be in mid to upper tiers.
 
Matt said:
Rule 1 of politics. People vote with their wallets. They didn't do that in Ohio. They voted on religion...as for fixing of the Cuyohoga...it is the largest county in Ohio, Bush knew damn well he needed it to win Ohio. What about Ohio's Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell promising Bush he had nothing to worry about? The odds the majority of a predominantly (75 %) black, democrat county, suddenly deciding "I'm voting Bush" are astronomical. Ohio's election was queerer than a 2 dollar bill.

"Rule 1 Vote with their wallets" very true. So what makes you think that the Ohioans all thought Kerry was going to be able to save them somehow? Kerry didnt provide any good evidence or reason to believe that he would make their situation any better.
 
Matt said:
Rule 1 of politics. People vote with their wallets. They didn't do that in Ohio. They voted on religion...as for fixing of the Cuyohoga...it is the largest county in Ohio, Bush knew damn well he needed it to win Ohio. What about Ohio's Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell promising Bush he had nothing to worry about? The odds the majority of a predominantly (75 %) black, democrat county, suddenly deciding "I'm voting Bush" are astronomical. Ohio's election was queerer than a 2 dollar bill.
I think it's safe to say that when there are counties with 140% participation rates, you're on to something. This election was worse than 2000.

Oh, and about Bush: Worst. President. Ever.
 
KingOfDreams said:
What was so bad about Kennedy and LBJ?
They were great Presidents. LBJ is probably our most underrated President ever.

In his first year, Johnson faced conflicts with everyone from Senators to speechwriters who wanted to honor Kennedy's legacy, but were reluctant to support new propositions by Johnson. Johnson used his famous charm and strong-arm tactics to push through his new policies. In 1964, upon Johnson's request, Congress passed a tax-reduction law and the Economic Opportunity Act, which was in association with the War on Poverty. Johnson also hired Jerri Whittington, the first African-American White House secretary, and appointed Jack Valenti as his "special assistant."

.....

The Great Society program became Johnson's agenda for Congress in January 1965: aid to education, attack on disease, Medicare, urban renewal, beautification, conservation, development of depressed regions, a wide-scale fight against poverty, control and prevention of crime, and removal of obstacles to the right to vote. Congress, at times augmenting or amending, rapidly enacted Johnson's recommendations. Millions of elderly people found succor through the 1965 Medicare amendment to the Social Security Act.

Under Johnson, the country made spectacular explorations of space in a program he had championed since its start. When three astronauts successfully orbited the moon in December 1968, Johnson congratulated them: "You've taken … all of us, all over the world, into a new era…."
Nevertheless, two overriding crises had been gaining momentum since 1965. Despite the beginning of new anti-poverty and anti-discrimination programs, unrest and rioting in black ghettos troubled the nation. President Johnson steadily exerted his influence against segregation and on behalf of law and order, but there was no early solution. Several changes were made during the Johnson administration to relieve the hostile political atmosphere. In response to the civil rights movement, Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which effectively outlawed most forms of racial segregation, and the Immigration and Nationality Services Act of 1965, which dramatically changed US immigration policy. He also nominated former civil rights attorney Thurgood Marshall, who had argued and won the landmark Supreme Court case Brown v. Board of Education, to the positions of Solicitor General and later Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, making him the first African-American to serve in either capacity.
The other crisis arose from Vietnam. Despite Johnson's efforts to end Communist insurgency and achieve a settlement, fighting continued. Controversy over the war had become acute by the end of March 1968, when he limited the bombing of North Vietnam in order to begin negotiations.
In a surprising move, Johnson withdrew as a candidate for re-election (which candidacy was being seriously challenged by other Democrats). He said he was withdrawing so he could devote his full efforts, unimpeded by politics, to the quest for peace.

Vietnam aside I have nothing but respect for our most activist President:up:
 
Admiral_N8 said:
How does thinking you kill babies in abortion mean you are religious? I know many athiests who are against abortion.


Because a fetus up until a certain month is nothing more than a clump of cells. It is incapable of thought, self awareness or consciousness. The concept of a soul is entirely religious and prior to...say...month 4 or 5...the soul is the only argument anti-abortion activists have as it is a clump of cells.
 
Admiral_N8 said:
"Rule 1 Vote with their wallets" very true. So what makes you think that the Ohioans all thought Kerry was going to be able to save them somehow? Kerry didnt provide any good evidence or reason to believe that he would make their situation any better.

Anything is better than the economic hit Ohio took between 2001 and 2004.

You ignored the other points.
 

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