The Wrestling Thread Mustache You a Question

[Wheels]

I still say Heyman is not a WCW guy. He was very bitter towards WCW, so why would he want to be involved with that brand?

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

does anyone know if the nwo revolution is out on blu ray in the uk. i've seen it on amazon but it doesnt state if its an import or not. as its region locked i cant imported it

also is the blu ray worth the extra money

 

[Kaleb]

We’re told Triple H has a lot of momentum right now after getting the deal done to induct Bruno Sammartino into the WWE Hall of Fame. As a result, Vince McMahon is giving him more and more freedom to make changes, lay out future plans, etc.

One major focus for Hunter has been the new training center WWE is looking to open in Orlando, FL. While some of the ideas are nothing particularly groundbreaking like the desire to be bigger than the NXT facilities in Tampa with more rings, there is one idea that has people excited.

Hunter wants the Orlando facility to include a state of the art injury rehabilitation inside the training compound. Not only would injured developmental workers rehab there but when someone from the main roster gets injured, they’ll be sent to Orlando for rehab so the company can monitor their progress.

Regarding the developmental changes, they are building a new facility in Orlando that will be far more state-of-the-art than Steve Keirn’s current Tampa gym. There is no time frame on when it will be ready and everyone will be scheduled to move, other than it will be before the end of the year.

The new facility is going to be similar to a major college and major professional sports training facility. It will be larger than the Tampa gym, with far more rings, plus there will be weight gym at the facility and they are in the process of hiring a team of strength and conditioning coaches. I don’t know of any pro wrestling company in history that has hired strength and conditioning coaches, and that the weight and cardio training is likely to be either mandatory, or it won’t serve you well if you don’t do it, so it’s mandatory in reality. There will be tape watching rooms and interview rooms, a trainers room.

The feeling is that right now developmental, which has been weak for years, is now with the more extensive recruiting, the strongest it has ever been, even above the early 00s period where they had Orton, Cena, Batista and Lesnar all in OVW at the same time.

good on HHH

 

[Trainwreck2100]

good on HHH

too bad there's no place in that gym to teach these guys how to deliver a damn promo

 

[Kaleb]

too bad there's no place in that gym to teach these guys how to deliver a damn promo

hah, so true, I wish they could go back to doing backstage promos .

 

[Wheels]

too bad there's no place in that gym to teach these guys how to deliver a damn promo

Dusty has taught promo classes for years. There's only so much you can teach regarding promos. Guys have to find their own voice. Windham Rotunda needed to find the Bray Wyatt character to showcase his mic skill.

 

[Slushy]

@ Van, I wanted Austin to win, but in hindsight. I didn't mind him losing as it was a huge reason for his character to turn back heel.

@ultimate evil, there's some extra segments or TV spots on the Blu Ray version, but the main reason why I bought it was because they put a Legends Of Wrestling Roundtable with guest Kevin Nash as a format exclusive. He gives some interesting insight (like Goldberg was going to take down the New World Order if he hadn't injured his arm breaking the limo window) even if he is a colossal *****e. I'm sure Fremantle's website should have info on a release date.

 

[The Sage]

Don't get me wrong, they were good matches, but I wouldn't consider them Cena's best.

Previous RAW matches - Nothing to remember aside from Cena defeating Punk in their first encounter in easy fashion then Punk winning in a rematch a few years with help from Nexus.

Money In The Bank 2011 - Loved the buildup and Chicago's emotion, but it was too botchy for my taste. (Plus I think Christian Vs. Orton from OTL was the best match of that year)

SummerSlam 2011 - Better in-ring match, but HHH took away the focus.

Night of Champions 2012 - The best of their PPV trilogy (on a technical standpoint) and had Punk pinned Cena in screwy fashion, this would've been my favorite match from last year.

RAW - Can't comment since I had to work that night, but I've been told its the best TV of 2013 so far.

Their RAW matches before the Pipebomb I don't consider part of their series because since they took place before Punk became a true top star.

Money in the Bank 2011 - A couple of botches but it didn't detract from the epicness of that night. Cena stepped it up and brought out some technical skill he rarely shows.

Summerslam 2011 - It was definitely better in the ring. Triple H barely did anything to get focus. He acted like a regular ref until that screwy ending that lead Del Rio cashing in. That match I really like, because it was back and forth and Cena stepped out of the box again.

RAW, August 22nd 2011 - No one remembers this match I guess, but it was another good bout that ended in screwy fashion.

Night of Champions 2012 - Funny enough, to me this is the weakest of their series, but it's still great.

RAW 2013 - Their best encounter, IMO.

Punk brings out the best in Cena. He does more than normal when he's in the ring with him. The only other two people who did that were Edge and Shawn Michaels. Cena's matches with Orton always had some sort of lag into them, maybe because of Orton's style.

 

[Dr. Evil]

good on HHH

The part where regular roster superstars can go there to rehab reminds me a bit of how Major League Baseball does it with their regular roster players.

For those not aware, Major League Baseball teams send players coming off the disabled list on "rehab assignments" for a week, maybe more depending on the recovery period. A rehab assignment consists of games played with the minor league teams before the Major league team decides whether or not he's ready to be activated.

 

[The Sage]

Thank you! I was trying to find the perfect rivalry to describe them, and came up with Stone Cold/Bret Hart, but I think The Rock vs. Stone was better.

I just want Vince to continue the rivalry eventually and not fully ignore. I do believe they can have a signature match. That Money in The Bank 2011 I think was a memorable match and their Raw match will be memorable too.

It's still the best match of the year so far.

Honestly, I'd like to see Cena lose at WrestleMania and just flipswitch. His angle has been about redemption, and WWE's done a nice job incorporating Cena's divorce as part of his "collapse" after losing to Rock last time. This would be a great opportunity to put Cena in the WHC picture to return some prestige to that title, but as a heel. A vicious heel. I know Cena's capable of vicious, and that's something I'd want to see.

I've said before how it would behoove WWE to "revive" WCW under Paul Heyman and have it "take over" SmackDown, and you could make Cena their "Hogan" in terms of comparability to the heel turns, with Cena leading the Shield.

WWE has a huge opportunity to completely change their MO as Levesque gains more creative control.

Just my thoughts.

Since they're doing the rematch, I feel like Cena has to win. If not, then Rock will have rolled in, beaten both top stars two times each, and roll out. I guess an alternative would be to have Rock lose at Extreme Rules, but Wrestlemania is the bigger stage and the main one that counts.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Anyone makeup their minds yet on whether Mania 29 is worth a buy or even watching?

 

[Kaleb]

not gonna watch it, might youtube all the decent matches but not gonna watch it the whole ppv.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

@ultimate evil, there's some extra segments or TV spots on the Blu Ray version, but the main reason why I bought it was because they put a Legends Of Wrestling Roundtable with guest Kevin Nash as a format exclusive. He gives some interesting insight (like Goldberg was going to take down the New World Order if he hadn't injured his arm breaking the limo window) even if he is a colossal *****e. I'm sure Fremantle's website should have info on a release date.

cheers mate i spoke to a friend who collects wwe dvd and he says the blu was released in the uk but hard to get due to the whole silvervison thing.

i'm looking at they're site right now and going to grab some stuff in the clear out sale anyone got any major recommendations.

 

[The Sage]

If my friends want to get together and order it, I might. But on my own, I'd skip it.

 

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol
True. That's the only problem I have with Michaels. I know coutless others have done the same, and I don't condone them for that, but as many have probably realised I had a problem with Michaels, well that is it.

Thats also my big sticking point with him working during the Attitude Era as a full time wrestler. Austin's rise was undeniable and unstoppable but Michaels may have still caused some problems. And I think there's a chance he may have tried to hold the Rock down. That just wouldn't have been right. They had a lot of similar appeal and Michaels was pretty protective of his spot back then. Even when he was hurt and had no choice but to hang 'em up he was at the very least a little bitter about doing the job. Not just because his dream career was done but he probably still wanted to be the top dog.

It seems like his injury happened at a pretty convenient time for everyone almost like it was always meant to go that way.

Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
It's amazing that he is feuding with Tensai, and Tensai was the last "failure out of the box" gimmick that we knew was going to fail horribly but wwe went with anyway.

Yeah I think it was obvious that it was a dud before he even made his debut. It was the wrong choice even though Albert had worked in Japan for a while. Should have just made him a tough guy instead of a culturally driven gimmick.

WWE just has a terrible track record with Asian wrestlers and gimmicks. They have no idea how to execute them 90 percent of the time. Makes me glad Muta never worked for them in any signifigant way that I know of.

Originally Posted by I'm Venom
He came back last year, looked really strong with wins over Punk and Cena, and I was enjoying his work. Once Johnny Ace was demoted to nothing more than a pencil-pusher, LORD Tensai was done.

I think you've hit on an important point a lot of people haven't touched on. Albert/Tensai may have been one of the last signings during the Johnny Ace talent relations regime. Since Johnny Ace had worked in Japan himself he may have been all for the signing under this gimmick. He may have been one of the guys supporting Albert. Once Laurinatiis lost power that just sped up the eventual outcome.

Originally Posted by AntMan
The problem with the Tensi gimmick was they had him speaking japanese It's one thing to have this guy who was never accepted by American fans who went to Japan, but it was too gimmicky. WWE was trying to create another Vader or Bam Bam but they weren't that gimmicky and Matt Bloom just isn't as athletic as those guys. He can't do backfilps and stuff.

It was ridiculous because EVERYBODY over the age of 16 knew this guy was Albert/A-Train. It hasn't been that long ago and his look wasn't even radically different enough like say...Papa Shango to Kama Mustafa. You could look at Tensai and it was just hard to shake that old connection. He's midcard at best anyway and combine that with a forced, badly handled gimmick and his run as a serious monster heel was doomed before it even took off. From the very beginning its come off as silly.

Like you said he's a big man and an ok worker but was never a great big man worker. Not in The States anyway.

Originally Posted by bullets
I sort of miss Shawn when he was heeling it up in DX. I wanted to see that side of him again, but we got a good trade off. It would of been nice to see him feud with Rock. It's kind of a shame that match never happened.

Its probably the biggest missed opportunity of the last 15 years. As far as I know Rock was one of the few top AE stars Michaels never really got to work with in a big one on one match. Maybe he did before Miavia was a big star but it just wouldn't have been the same. Seems like they always just miss each other. One was hanging up his boots just when the other one was on the rise or returning.

That's true. It's gotten so bad the only place to go is up. Triple H does have some awesome entrances. If he had a lot of input into those I can see he'd be good at coming up with grandiose theatrics for stuff like Mania. Also he's friends with Criss Angel. I think time will tell , but I'm not worried about it.

I think he does understand the character theatrics and the importance of grand presentation. In some ways he'll always be old school in terms of the wrestling product he prefers but he knows how to present it with a modern slant. Thats essentially how his entire character and career have been executed.

Originally Posted by AntMan
I think Triple H has a deeper love of wrestling than Vince does. He was just a fan at one point. Vince has always been on the inside of the business. For example, If Triple H didn't reach out to Bruno we wouldn't see him in the HOF.

I agree. I mean Vince was a fan at one point but I've never felt he LOVED this business the same way Triple H did when he was a fan. I think Vince was in love with, the larger than life stars, the grandness of it all, and what it could be. He loved the potential the business had and the broad kind of product they could sell. Triple H loved every part from every angle. He was a fan of specifc storylines, and groups, and characters. He's a smaller detail guy.

Vince has always been more of a big picture guy. He's never been the best at all the little day to day/everyday creative things or the psychology of matches. Thats why WWE was always better when he was willing to delegate those responsibiities a little bit more to talented people he trusted. Vince knew how to sell what someone like a Pat Patterson booked. Pat knew the kind of finishes that would get them where Vince wanted to end up.

Originally Posted by AntMan
Metallo, you're thinking of Eric Escabar.

Thats it. Thanks. Shows how much of an impression he made on me. What ever happened to him anyway? Did he go back to developmental and get released?

Its obvious they put him with Vickie to get him heat and get him over as a heel but damn he just wasn't ready.

Originally Posted by sweetre15
Dolph has gotten to win twice this week and I personally hope that means it's rebuilding time for Ziggler's credibility as an opponent.

I sure hope so. At least it means his losing streak is over. Lets hope they keep it that way.

Originally Posted by AntMan
Whaaaaa? Metallo you know people love getting behind losers. If a guy jobs enough eventually casuals will stop caring. That's why I don't buy the you shouldn't care about wins and losers stuff. Sorry, I don't want talented people looking like crap.

Yeah there have been plenty of cases of talented guys being jobbed into oblivion to the point that it hurt their standing. The Popes usage in WWE AND TNA is one example. Can anybody really say he's not talented? But he was kept off tv and when he was around he jobbed. He had far less value as a star after that.

Benoit and Guererro obviously had more talent and potential to go higher than WCW thought but they were getting wrongly and unfairly stuck with the image of midcarders for life. Especially Guererro. I really hated how they used him in later years.

Nattie Niedhart is extremely talented...but I think they've really hurt her image with the crowds. Same was true with Victoria before her. People know these ladies are the real deal when it comes to wrestling talent but expectations for them and the division eroded when it was clear WWE didn't give a sh**. Once TNA started pushing Victoria/Tara the way she should have ebeen for years before the crowds got behind her again. They had a reason to.

Originally Posted by The Sage
I'm late but...CM Punk's DVD is one of the best I've ever seen. What he struggled against to make it to the top, and the politics dealt to him. He really is a Paul Heyman guy. It's not just a phrase.

It was funny listening to him, but he said a lot of things that we had said over the years. For example, Miz main-eventing Wrestlemania 27 instead of him...made no sense when Punk was clearly the better heel.

It really was a joke. Someone like Punk should have been in that spot and the spot should have been treated seriously. The only plus side is Miz was clearly chosen to take the fall for a reason. They put him there to be a secondary figure in the main event. The title was secondary too. Both took a backseat to building the Rock/Cena rivalry. Miz was just a tool. A plot device. Doomed to fail. At least Punk avoided such piss poor treatment but he still should have been put in the main event in a match that meant something. They still could have built up the Rock/Cena feud at the same time. As it is now the WM27 main event is a forgetabble throwaway match.

Originally Posted by Slushy
Is Fandango a terrible wrestler or is he another one of those good / decent workers stuck with a terrible gimmick?

Good question. I think someone who watches NXT might be able to answer because I'm also curious to know the answer.

And why the username change? I got confused for a second.

Originally Posted by Kaleb

LOL at HBK and Diesel. Is that Inoki Vader is wrestling?

Originally Posted by AntMan
I just think Brock is in a better position to help guys if he's winning matches. it might not harm Lesnar to lose to Triple H, but it sure doesn't help anyone and it doesn't give me anything I want. The big matches at WrestleMania this year are okay, but nothing I'm excited about.

Agreed. Not only does it do no good but the match is a waste of time. Is anyone really dying to see this rehash? Both their time could be spent on two other matches that could help the show draw. Lesnar's involvment alone at WrestleMania is going to draw some interest just because some people want to see what he will do.

A win over Brock Lesnar now after he's taken only one real questionable loss would do more for someone than beating Lesnar after Triple H gets to stand victorious over him.

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne
I think the bind that creative was in this year was that two matches had to happen again. Triple H v. Brock was built up from last year. Rock vs. Cena was also built up from last year. With Punk vs. Undertaker, I think that just came down to no one else being able to face the Undertaker, except for Cena, but they just would have rather wanted him with Rock instead of Punk.

I think you're right. They have to know right now there is no one else good enough that is availible to help Undertaker deliver a match up to his current standards or our expectations.

Punk was the best choice but they kind of fouled up the buildup before Paul Bearer died. Before that this feud felt so ho-hum after the epic buildups and importance focused on the Undertaker vs HBK and HHH four part saga.

Originally Posted by The Sage
The push of Daniel Bryan, and even Shield is likely an effect of the "Pipebomb".

I love that the documentary highlighted that Pipebomb gave Punk plenty of attention. ESPN, GQ, various radio stations, other areas...the man became an instant star.

The Pipebomb gave WWE what Vince craved: mainstream attention, and it didn't require a part-time wrestler/full-time Hollywood star like the Rock. All it took was a talented wrestler with an amazing ability to speak, and good booking. Bam! They got it.

I agree. Punks sucess may have caused them to be more willing to give smaller more talented mat wrestlers or wrestlers with indie backgrounds a chance. It also caused them to let some people have a bit more edge.

Yes Punk is the proof that high quality unpredictable and exciting storylines can garner mainstream attention without outside hooks and gimmicks. Its fine to use that stuff but deliver a product that can draw people in too. Thats the way it should be. Celebrity alone isn't enough to turn the tide. Lawrence Taylor at WM11 didn't but Mike Tyson at WM14 did for a reason. The celebrity was used to draw attention to an already exciting modern wrestling product and accentuate it.

Cena/Rock II is the only rematch that needed to happen, and even they could've put them on the Summerslam card, or the Royal Rumble instead of Wrestlemania. Or they could've just dismissed having the rematch and did something different, like Rock vs Punk at Mania with Punk winning. That could've added a layer to the Cena/Punk feud: Punk able to beat the man Cena couldn't.

Triple H/Lesnar II on the other hand...didn't need a rematch at all. No one was really asking for it. This is about Triple H getting a win to balance the scales between them.

A Punk/Cena/Rock triple threat would have solved a TON of problems. Hell they could have made it an elimination three way. That way Cena and Punk could have gotten the rub and/or a win from the Rock. Cena eliminates Rock and Punk beats Cena.

It would have created a question of what to do with Undertaker but if they REALLY needed to have him in a match they could count on to be good they could have put him in there against Chris Jericho. They could depend on him to carry Taker to a solid bout. Punk could have tried to end the streak at WM30 if Austin decides not to ever wrestle again.

 

[Wheels]

It's still the best match of the year so far.



Since they're doing the rematch, I feel like Cena has to win. If not, then Rock will have rolled in, beaten both top stars two times each, and roll out. I guess an alternative would be to have Rock lose at Extreme Rules, but Wrestlemania is the bigger stage and the main one that counts.

I don't see why a desperate Cena, who senses victory being snatched from him once again, can't cheat to win. Then you have even more heat because Cena turned heel and beat The Rock to close the show.

Of course we're probably going to get a Super Cena moment with Cena winning clean.

 

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by Kaleb
This,but I would turn ryback heel (pair him up with a manager ,heck maybe even Heyman so ge gets some reaction) and keep Cena face.

Great idea. I think this is the best option for Ryback. He's not quite working as a face but he's got the look and push to be a monster heel. His promos are nothing special but a manager solves that problem. Someone like Jim Mitchell would be a good candidate too.

It would help with the Goldberg comparisons too. Pushing a new Goldberg/Warrior hybrid--except as a heel--would at least be another difference.

Originally Posted by The Sage
CM Punk is John Cena's greatest rival. Their in-ring chemistry is unbeliveably good, they just click in a match.

And it's also who they are and what they represent in the wrestling world. Cena's the walking WWE brand with the chiseled, bodybuilder-ish looks. He's what Vince sees as what a wrestler should be and he pushes him.

CM Punk's the guy from the indies, non-bodybuilder physique. He's the modern day everyman. He doesn't look like a star at first, but when he gets in the ring or has a mic in his hand, he blows you away.

Cena's the guy you know was always going to make it to the top because he fits the mold. CM Punk is the guy who made it to the top despite not fitting the mold.

That to me, is what the comparisons to Rock/Austin are. Austin was the everyman of his time who didn't fit the mold but had to get pushed because people loved him. Rock may have started off rough, but he had that physique and the wrestling pedigree behind him.

Punk put it best in a promo from the RAW before Summerslam 2011: Cena's the lion, he's the hyena.

It's a Wrestlemania epic that's waiting to happen. And truthfully, it would mean even more if Cena's the heel walking in, and Punk's the face. I think if done right, that their match could eclipse Brock/Rock, even be the last match.

Agreed. Their in ring chemistry is great but so is their character chemistry. They play off of each other so well as you say. The fact that their differences are highlighted is something that makes their rivalry even more enjoyable. Those character differences even influence the in ring work. Its a perfect example of all the great parts of pro wrestling coming together for one cohesive entertaining show.

Its what makes every great rivalry what it is. Flair/Steamboat, Hart/Michaels, Hogan/Savage, Austin/Rock, Flair/Sting, Hogan/Piper, Undertaker/Michaels Cena/Edge and Cena/Punk all had these great elements that could be compared and contrasted.

Its just like comics. The heroes greatest foes are usually people who are their opposite in some or all ways.

Punk IS Cenas greatest rival. I agree. I'd say their rivalry has passed Cena/Edge. Like all great rivalries one reason you know its great is because it never gets tired or stale. The fact that Punk makes Cena better all around (the Cena more people want to see) says it all.

Originally Posted by NDX
Not dvds you'd want to admit to buying.

These days a dvd titled "Tylene Buck: Hardcore" probably has a different kind of wrestling from what she did on WCW tv.

Originally Posted by Van Petrol
Loving the discussion about the Cena-Punk rivalry and the comparisons to Rock-Austin. We need to get at least one WrestleMania main event for the WWE title between the two before either hang it up. They're both in, or approaching their mid 30's now, and with Punk talking about retiring in the next few years, time may not be on our side.

Hoping we get it at WrestleMania 30.

I agree. Its got to happen. A lot of those great Wrestlemania main event matches between two great rivals weren't their first in ring encounters either. Hart and Michaels and Rock and Austin also wrestled each other long before they met on the big stage.

Originally Posted by Slushy
Cena's feuds with Edge and Orton were better.

Wha? No way. Not Cena vs Orton anyway. I guess an argument can be made for Cena vs Edge being better but the Cena/Orton rivalry was overhyped and it never came close to being AS good as WWE claimed it to be. They pushed it hard and promoted it as a great rivalry for the ages but it never really worked like great rivalries of the past did.

For one thing Punk has hit a peak of high quality work that Orton never has. Some of those Cena/Orton matches are forgettable. Cena and Punk haven't had one forgettable match. Not a single one.

Even the Cena/Batista feud was a far bigger deal AND better than the Cena/Orton rivalry

Originally Posted by Kaleb
Cena vs Punk = Rock vs Austin/HBK vs Bret

Cena vs Orton = HHH vs Stone Cold,while Cena vs Edge = Hogan vs Piper.

I can kind of see the bold part. Edge was a rulebreaker just like Piper.

If Rude had gotten a top level push and had a woman like Sherri with him in WWF I'd call Rude the Edge of his day in some ways.

Orton/HHH 09 = Roberts/Savage...only not anywhere near as good. But they are very similar and can be compared.

Cena vs Batista has a lot of simiarities to Hogan/Warrior and it could have been much closer to that if WWE had played their cards right. Difference is it wasn't generation vs generation or a passing of the torch. Warrior also wasn't pushed as a guy who might dominate over Hogan as a tougher meaner guy the way Batista was with Cena. And Big Dave was also a heel later.

Originally Posted by The Sage
- TNA officials were happy with the way Thursday's Impact Wrestling in Chicago went, from the crowd reaction to the production to the wrestlers in-ring work. The feeling is that it's good to get out of the Impact Zone from an aesthetic point of view.

The show LOOKED great. Impact being live and on the road makes a huge difference in the shows creative atmosphere. It gives each new show a freshness. Much better than seeing the same Impact Zone every week.

- Advance sales for other upcoming Impact tapings have been good so far. TNA is working hard to make sure the on-sales are an "event" in each market.

Thats good to know. I really hope this is a sucess for them and they cn make it work. Being honest I know it might not since financially its very difficult.

- There is talk of holding this year's Bound For Glory pay-per-view in Chicago.

I hope so. Its a great wrestling town and BFG would probably get a pretty good and much needed turnout.

Originally Posted by Havok83
Oh god, what irritates me so much about Smackdown is how much of it is a rehash of Raw. They spend way too much time showing clips and talking about Raw instead of showcasing original content

Fandango is awful. I think he's had like the worst wrestling debut Ive ever seen.

When someone says a debut is worse than Shockmaster's you know its horrible. At least Shockmaster was unintentionally hilarious. There's NOTHING entertaining about Fandango himself. I can't even get joy out of making fun of him. The gimmick just flat out sucks.

Originally Posted by Slushy
Re: Cena's feuds

Cena had way better matches with Edge whether it was TLC, Last Man Standing, or Steel Cage. Hell, their match at Royal Rumble 2006 showed they didn't even need gimmicks to put on a good match.

As for Orton, the pinnacle of their feud was at SummerSlam 2007, a tremendous main event. Orton may have lost that match, but he one upped twice Cena by beating him in a good match Hell In A Cell and ended his Wrestlemania winning streak in a fun triple threat match involving HHH. Both losses were high profile. You may have not liked it, but I felt Cena and Orton always delivered in their matches. Well, except for that Iron Man match, which I wasted an hour of my life watching. : /

And both feuds involved Cena Sr. which them personal and added to them.

Big difference is WWE had to force promoting Orton vs Cena as this great thing. If it was so great they never would have needed to push it so hard. WIth Punk vs Cena they haven't had to do that as much. People just instantly know it. They don't need to be told over and over how great it is. Thats a sign of greatness.

Orton was also WWE's other golden boy. Their chosen son to take on Cena. It was easily and obviously going to happen at some point. Punk wasn't that yet he's delivered a great rivalry with Cena despite a lot of obstacles. He made it happen by making the match MUST HAPPEN despite not being one of their favorites and it was still an amazing sucuss on multiple fronts.

I don't think the overall Cena vs Orton or Cena vs Edge feuds got as much attention as the overall Cena vs Punk feud has either.

Money In The Bank is a B ppv and the MITB where Cena first wrestled Punk probably ended up being a bigger deal than any ppv Cena wrestled Edge or Orton on bar Wrestlemania and Wrestlemania is the biggest deal the company has going anyway. Cena and Punk did far more on their own to make MITB 2011 a bigger deal.

As far as in ring work and quality of storytelling the best of Punk vs Cena easily stacks up to anything Cena did with Edge or Orton.

Originally Posted by AntMan
I still say Heyman is not a WCW guy. He was very bitter towards WCW, so why would he want to be involved with that brand?

Agreed. It doesn't make any sense to go that way. Heyman is everything WCW wasn't. He's the antithesis of WCW. He'd never WANT to see WCW come back. If anyone should be glad to see it dead and want it to stay that way it should be Paul Heyman.

WCW was a bloated corporate giant that focused on the big picture but couldn't see the forrest for the trees. It was the estableshment and at its worst everything thats wrong with the estableshment. More so than even WWE is today. It was a machine and the people lower on the totem pole were cogs that got lost in the machine and weren't seen as important.

Heyman is the underground. He's the anti-authority anti-estableshment figure. He's a renegade and a rebel. Thats playing out NOW in this thing with him and Lesner vs Triple H, Vince McMahon, and WWE. They are the people in charge and he's sticking it to them as an outsider.

If ANYONE was going to bring WCW back under the WWE umbrella it should have been Eric Bischoff. If they really want to risk big for heat hire Vince Russo to do it. He might get the wrong kind of heat though.

Originally Posted by Kaleb
We’re told Triple H has a lot of momentum right now after getting the deal done to induct Bruno Sammartino into the WWE Hall of Fame. As a result, Vince McMahon is giving him more and more freedom to make changes, lay out future plans, etc.

One major focus for Hunter has been the new training center WWE is looking to open in Orlando, FL. While some of the ideas are nothing particularly groundbreaking like the desire to be bigger than the NXT facilities in Tampa with more rings, there is one idea that has people excited.

Hunter wants the Orlando facility to include a state of the art injury rehabilitation inside the training compound. Not only would injured developmental workers rehab there but when someone from the main roster gets injured, they’ll be sent to Orlando for rehab so the company can monitor their progress.

Regarding the developmental changes, they are building a new facility in Orlando that will be far more state-of-the-art than Steve Keirn’s current Tampa gym. There is no time frame on when it will be ready and everyone will be scheduled to move, other than it will be before the end of the year.

The new facility is going to be similar to a major college and major professional sports training facility. It will be larger than the Tampa gym, with far more rings, plus there will be weight gym at the facility and they are in the process of hiring a team of strength and conditioning coaches. I don’t know of any pro wrestling company in history that has hired strength and conditioning coaches, and that the weight and cardio training is likely to be either mandatory, or it won’t serve you well if you don’t do it, so it’s mandatory in reality. There will be tape watching rooms and interview rooms, a trainers room.

The feeling is that right now developmental, which has been weak for years, is now with the more extensive recruiting, the strongest it has ever been, even above the early 00s period where they had Orton, Cena, Batista and Lesnar all in OVW at the same time.

All that sounds good to me. Now like Trainwreck2100 said instead of only focusing on the physical/mechanics of wrestling they also need to focus on the entertainment/character side. They need to teach rookies the psychology of the business. This is a decent start to improving WWE developmental but its going to take much more than this to teach new talent how to really work and cut good promos.

They really need to expand their developmental system across the country as well as recruit even more promising talent from good indie groups and from other countries.

I know the world is much "smaller" than it used to be decades ago because of technology and different regional tastes aren't as extreme as the used to be but it would still benefit rookies to learn how to work a crowd in Orlando just as well as a crowd in Chicago or London. Different crowds still have different energies. Knowing how to read those different crowds is important for any good worker when he needs to improvise or change things on the fly.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Before.

Then yeah, Carrell hasn't done anything great since then. I think all his movies sucked since Crazy Stupid Love.

good on HHH

This is excellent. I'm glad McMahon is relying more on Triple H because he's definitely doing many things right and I believe he will try to bring back more traditional wrestling ideas. I believe adding more managers was his idea also.

Now if he can only resurrect the cruiserweight division.

It's still the best match of the year so far.

Yep. I just can't wait to see them again in the ring. This is WWE's biggest rivalry and I just want them to realize that.

Anyone makeup their minds yet on whether Mania 29 is worth a buy or even watching?

Maybe, though if Punk is injured I may not watch.

 

[Slushy]

My 10 favorite Austin matches:

Vs. Steamboat - Bash At The Beach 1994

Vs. Bret Hart - Kuwait 1996

Vs. Helmsley - Buried Alive

Vs. Michaels - King Of The Ring 1997

Vs. Foley - Over The Edge 1998

Vs. Kane - King Of The Ring 1998

Vs. Undertaker - SummerSlam 1998

Vs. Shamrock - RAW September 1998

Vs. Maivia - Wrestlemania 17 (although I think WM 15 is a forgotten gem)

Vs. Angle - Unforgiven 2001


What about you guys?

Anyone makeup their minds yet on whether Mania 29 is worth a buy or even watching?

I'm only watching it for Rock Vs. Cena II which will be better than last year's bout.

I'm sure Punk Vs. Undertaker will be match of the night.

Edit: I'm sure Del Rio Vs. Swagger will deliver, but sadly the crowd won't give a sh**.

Everything else is either more rematches or just complete filler. Not worth $65 if you ask me.

 

[Zanham]

Anyone makeup their minds yet on whether Mania 29 is worth a buy or even watching?

I think it is. If you like big match hype then you'll probably like this PPV.

As it is, it roughghly looks like the card will be close to this:

WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Alberto Del Rio(c.) vs Jack Swagger

WWE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
The Rock(c.) vs John Cena

MATCH FOR 'THE STREAK'
Undertaker vs C.M. Punk

HELL IN A CELL or MMA MATCH w/ Triple H's career or WWE on the line???
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar

INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Wade Barrett(c.) vs ????

U.S. CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Antonio Cesaro(c.) vs ????

MULTI-TEAM TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Team Hell No(c.) vs ???? vs ???? vs ????

WOMENS CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Kaitlyn(c.) vs ????

The Shield vs Orton, Sheamus, and Ryback or Big Show

Some mystery match involving Big Show or Ryback and maybe Mark Henry if it's Ryback.

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The only match that makes no sense for Wrestlemania is the one involving The Shield. Them against Big Show or even Undertaker in a handicap match would have been more fitting in my eyes and that's what i though it was going to end up as, especially when Orton and Sheamus didn't come down to aid Big SHow last week on RAW.

As for the big four matches:

Swagger/Del Rio: Despite what a lot of people are saying, I like this feud and the tone of this match. Not only that but Swagger and Del Rio should have a really good match.

Rock/Cena: It's been over two years ongoing feud/story. We all suspect Cena to get the win so it's worth watching just to see how it goes down.

Undertaker/Punk: Only way this match is compelling is if Punk wins because there is no way he can be seen as a believable threat after losing two straight to Rock and with Undertaker being Undertaker.

Triple H/Lesnar: Like Rock/Cena, this is a rematch and has been talked about for awhile. It's not the main reason to buy the PPV but it doesn't hurt it and is a real solid match further down from the main event.

The only way WWE could convince me to not buy this PPV is to leave the U.S. Championship and Intercontinental Championship matches off and add some things that would make no sense at the time.

 

[nite-owl]

 

[Van Petrol]

Thats also my big sticking point with him working during the Attitude Era as a full time wrestler. Austin's rise was undeniable and unstoppable but Michaels may have still caused some problems. And I think there's a chance he may have tried to hold the Rock down. That just wouldn't have been right. They had a lot of similar appeal and Michaels was pretty protective of his spot back then. Even when he was hurt and had no choice but to hang 'em up he was at the very least a little bitter about doing the job. Not just because his dream career was done but he probably still wanted to be the top dog.

It seems like his injury happened at a pretty convenient time for everyone almost like it was always meant to go that way.

I agree. And it's something for Michaels, that he was able to return after Rock and Austin had all but left. Only thing is we could have seen some awesome rivalries and moments between Michaels, Austin and Rock. I don't hate Michaels, just wasn't a fan of his politicing back in the day. I'm a massive admirer of his in ring work, and the classics he has put out over the years, as well as his willingness and contribution in helping to elevate and put others over when he returned.

I agree. Its got to happen. A lot of those great Wrestlemania main event matches between two great rivals weren't their first in ring encounters either. Hart and Michaels and Rock and Austin also wrestled each other long before they met on the big stage.

Agreed. I think we'll all have been cheated if it doesn't happen.

 

[The Sage]

Agreed. Their in ring chemistry is great but so is their character chemistry. They play off of each other so well as you say. The fact that their differences are highlighted is something that makes their rivalry even more enjoyable. Those character differences even influence the in ring work. Its a perfect example of all the great parts of pro wrestling coming together for one cohesive entertaining show.

Its what makes every great rivalry what it is. Flair/Steamboat, Hart/Michaels, Hogan/Savage, Austin/Rock, Flair/Sting, Hogan/Piper, Undertaker/Michaels Cena/Edge and Cena/Punk all had these great elements that could be compared and contrasted.

Its just like comics. The heroes greatest foes are usually people who are their opposite in some or all ways.

Punk IS Cenas greatest rival. I agree. I'd say their rivalry has passed Cena/Edge. Like all great rivalries one reason you know its great is because it never gets tired or stale. The fact that Punk makes Cena better all around (the Cena more people want to see) says it all.

Perfectly put, Metallo. That's exactly it.

 

[Wheels]

WWE wants fans to see Rock vs Cena on the same level as Hogan vs Andre and Hogan vs Rock, but really it's on the level of Hogan vs HBK. There's no magic to Rock vs Cena at all and it didn't live up to the expectations . That crowd wasn't as hot as Detroit or Toronto and the match wasn't good enough on it's own to make up for that.

 

[Kaleb]