Superman Returns There's trouble in River City friends with SR's poor BO and so-so DVD sales

[lexlives]

The numbers are out and, as some of us predicted, SR did just so-so in DVD sales. Coming no where near BB's almost 7 million units sold. Less than X3 and in 16th place for the year - I predicted 16, 17 or 18. Not tooting my horn (like I would never do that) - but it was obvious this film did not appeal to audiences and would not do robust DVD numbers.

The BO was a bigger disappointment to be sure. So too sales of the video game and toys.

To be honest, is this the foundation that makes for a successful sequel? Successful as in the BO which is all that matters to WB.

Cause, if a Singer sequel goes forward and does just so-so - even slightly better than SR - this franchise is dead for good.

Is that a risk you want to take? Do you have "faith in Singer"? Do you want more screen time for the kid? Maybe superpowers as has been rumored? Or do you want a Kal-centric film - is it so "out there" to want that? And am I a "hater" for wanting a film about Supes - and not Jason?!

You all need to think hard about this. I have. The Singer continuity with its total mis-characterization of Superman - the kid is just a symptom of a much bigger problem - is a failed concept that will, I guarantee you, fail in a sequel too.

Then where will we fans be? Up the creek - for good. The title of this thread is a "take off", but the seriousness of the matter can no longer be denied. Audiences did not embrace SR, no matter the format.

To put it bluntly - the SR "team" from Singer to the writers to the actors and the PR folks failed to deliver. Why would WB, or any studio for that matter, bring them back for a redux? Would you if it were your life savings you were betting on this riverboat gamble - which is, at best, what a sequel would be?

Its crunch time folks. Your choice a final Singer produced Superman film in 3 years and nada for 2 or 3 decades after or a halt to the Singer continuity and, in 6 or 7 years a re-boot. With a chance of 3 films - cause ain't no way Singer is gonna get a third film. Routh was prophetic on that at the DVD launch - he said he always wanted to make two films as Superman. A Freudian slip? Maybe, but who really knows - this project has been star-crosssed from day one.

I have created a blog in an attempt to do something about this. Will post a link if enough are interested.

 

[Papa Burgundy]

ok i love sr. love love love love it. the movie made nearly 400 mil worldwide so this film will still make a profit, just not as big as wb hoped. and it still made 200 million here. yes i know 200 million is about what it cost to make but 200 million dollars worth of tickets still means alot of people saw it. not every movie is gonna make spiderman type numbers. thats the huge numbers everyone is aiming for 350-400 million dollars. but then again when hasnt it been about money.

 

[lexlives]

ok i love sr. love love love love it. the movie made nearly 400 mil worldwide so this film will still make a profit, just not as big as wb hoped. and it still made 200 million here. yes i know 200 million is about what it cost to make but 200 million dollars worth of tickets still means alot of people saw it. not every movie is gonna make spiderman type numbers. thats the huge numbers everyone is aiming for 350-400 million dollars. but then again when hasnt it been about money.

But Pap, even you admit it did not do well. The DVD was so-so at best.

Do you not think that could be an indication that the Singer vision or continuity is flawed? Are you totally confident a Singer sequel can do huge numbers - as in 250 mil plus - as that is the minimum WB expects.

Do you want to risk it all on Singer and Routh or would you, on reflection, prefer a reboot in 6 or 7 years?

You need to think about this as a sequel is a huge, huge risk - some posts here even say Singer needs to wrap it up in a sequel as he may not get a third chance.

This is not where we should be as Superman fans!

 

[lexlives]

BTW, I just got an e-mail from a "co-hater", underground of course, at the BT forums that someone has linked to this post there. Maybe I should take that as a compliment - or not? I hope whomever linked does not get banned as I was - ages ago - from BT.

 

[Showtime]

The problem is when it is all said and done the movie has made money, is it POTC2? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Is it Lady in the Water or Poseidon? NO. You are making things seem worse than they are, just as supporters tend to make things seem better than they are. It is really somewhere down the middle, the question is, "Is that where WB wants to be, the middle?"

 

[lexlives]

The problem is when it is all said and done the movie has made money, is it POTC2? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Is it Lady in the Water or Poseidon? NO. You are making things seem worse than they are, just as supporters tend to make things seem better than they are. It is really somewhere down the middle, the question is, "Is that where WB wants to be, the middle?"

You git it - does WB want to be in the middle? I don't think so - hope not anyway - these numbers give no confidence for a sequel doing well and WB has to be looking at that.

Weak movies at the BO are given a second chance cause they performed lots better on DVD.

BB did 8 last year at the BO but better on DVD. Hulk did better on DVD , rank-wise, than at the BO.

But SR did 5 or 6 at the BO but 16 on DVD.

That is a poor showing and is a "bad" sign as to how a sequel will do.

As I said, WB has to be re-evaluating things now, and Legendary too, as the numbers with these DVD rankings simply - to be blunt - do not support them pouring in another 175 million or so into a Singer sequel.

The huge negative buzz already out there over a potential Singer sequel makes it, IMO, almost untenable now - coupled with the DVD numbers - for WB to continue with Singer. The next few months should be interesting as this all plays out.

Let's pray they indeed come to that conclusion cause very indication is a sequel will be a financial disappointmet if not a disaster.

 

[I Am The Knight]

So write them letters. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

[lexlives]

So write them letters. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Exactly - we can bitc* and moan on MB's but the way to get WB's attention is write them. No e-mails - old-fashinoed letters. If you want to save the film franchise then get off your duf** and write! You owe that to Big Blue!

 

[Showtime]

I think all big companies re-evaluate, whether their product is super successful or not. I know that WB was unhappy with the result, but they were 100% behind Singer, before, during, and after production. I strongly believe based on information that they are not wavering on going forward with a proven commodity like Singer. Fox is still trying to wrestle him back to the X-Men franchise. Singer is not looked upon with such hatred outside the realm of Superherohype. He is respected by his peers in the film industry and the company that hired him understands his value. Could they go in another direction? Sure. Will they? I doubt it, they are going to go with him for the sequel. This huge negative buzz, is only spewing forth from the depths of the Hype boards, maybe some other less prominent boards. Nowhere else.

 

[Super Kal]

well, before the movie came out, i went to other boards and asked them what they thought, and the overall response i got was negative.

 

[lexlives]

I think all big companies re-evaluate, whether their product is super successful or not. I know that WB was unhappy with the result, but they were 100% behind Singer, before, during, and after production. I strongly believe based on information that they are not wavering on going forward with a proven commodity like Singer. Fox is still trying to wrestle him back to the X-Men franchise. Singer is not looked upon with such hatred outside the realm of Superherohype. He is respected by his peers in the film industry and the company that hired him understands his value. Could they go in another direction? Sure. Will they? I doubt it, they are going to go with him for the sequel. This huge negative buzz, is only spewing forth from the depths of the Hype boards, maybe some other less prominent boards. Nowhere else.

You are totally wrong in the negative buzz being SHH, Go to the DC boards or Superman Cinema. More telling go to the general movie boards.

There is no desire or excitement for/about a sequel. The DVD numbers only confirm that.

Yes, Fox is right now trying to lure Singer away for the new X-Men prequel trilogy and I hope he bails and goes witht that. Surely less grief for him cause he would be under the microscope he would be if WB actually gives a green light. Plus the X-Men sequel will have a larger budget by far than a Superman sequel.

My opinion, Singer and WB will come to a polite parting of the ways in the next few months nd the Superman franchise will be put on indefinite hold.

That means not another Superman film for 7 or 8 years, but it is the best thing, the absolute best thing, that can happen to this franchise.

If Singer gets another shot he will kill the Superman film franchise.

Now given the less than robust DVD sales and rentals and the negative buzz all over the internet - go search for yourself - I think it is becoming increasingly impossible for WB to continue with Singer. As I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few months.

 

[Showtime]

The DC boards and the Superman Cinema boards are most definately not ALL OVER THE INTERNET. Let's not make mountains out of molehills. For every bit of negativity there is positive to be found. Again, this movie is not as hated as you make it out to be. You need to have some perspective, the fandom is split right down the middle. There is not an overwhelming sense of hate or an overwhelming sense of love. It is what it is, the hyperbole doesn't fit the actuality of it all.

 

[Showtime]

well, before the movie came out, i went to other boards and asked them what they thought, and the overall response i got was negative.

I don't see an overwhelming negativity even on these boards. It seems to be pretty even. Everything about this movie seems to have been right in the middle.

 

[lexlives]

The DC boards and the Superman Cinema boards are most definately not ALL OVER THE INTERNET. Let's not make mountains out of molehills. For every bit of negativity there is positive to be found. Again, this movie is not as hated as you make it out to be. You need to have some perspective, the fandom is split right down the middle. There is not an overwhelming sense of hate or an overwhelming sense of love. It is what it is, the hyperbole doesn't fit the actuality of it all.

Split right down the middle is not where WB wants to be with fans going into a sequel. They were or had most fans on their side going into SR - before the "kid" rumors sufaced and the suit photos appeared.

So, at best, WB will be starting out behind where it did with SR in terms of fan supprt. With no great interest among general audiences for a sequel as the DVD sales indicate.

That has to give WB pause and it should scare any fan - cause if a sequel fails, as is a real possibility by all measures we have right now, Superman is dead as a film venue! Think about that.

 

[Showtime]

Split right down the middle is not where WB wants to be with fans going into a sequel. They were or had most fans on their side going into SR - before the "kid" rumors sufaced and the suit photos appeared.

So, at best, WB will be starting out behind where it did with SR in terms of fan supprt. With no great interest among general audiences for a sequel as the DVD sales indicate.

That has to give WB pause and it should scare any fan - cause if a sequel fails, as is a real possibility by all measures we have right now, Superman is dead as a film venue! Think about that.

You have to choose a stance though, on one hand you are saying the whole internet is a buzz with negativity but on the other you are preaching that middle ground is not enough. Did you see the kid rumors on television? I didn't. Did you see the kid rumors on CNN, MSNBC, FOX NEWS respective internet sites? I didnt. The buzz about the kid, again, was on sites just like the one you're on right now. MOVIE FAN SITES. People who frequent these sites aren't the average movie goer, which is why Superman Returns even made 200 million dollars domestically and sold 25 million some odd tickets. WB accomplished what it wanted in terms of reintroducing Superman, the character was everywhere in 2006. They didn't see the profit they would have liked, 500million worldwide was their goal, but they are moving forward one way or another. The franchise will not be mired in development hell for another 8 years as you believe. They brought Superman back and he is going to stay here because the character is profitable.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

You have to choose a stance though, on one hand you are saying the whole internet is a buzz with negativity but on the other you are preaching that middle ground is not enough. Did you see the kid rumors on television? I didn't. Did you see the kid rumors on CNN, MSNBC, FOX NEWS respective internet sites? I didnt. The buzz about the kid, again, was on sites just like the one you're on right now. MOVIE FAN SITES. People who frequent these sites aren't the average movie goer, which is why Superman Returns even made 200 million dollars domestically and sold 25 million some odd tickets. WB accomplished what it wanted in terms of reintroducing Superman, the character was everywhere in 2006. They didn't see the profit they would have liked, 500million worldwide was their goal, but they are moving forward one way or another. The franchise will not be mired in development hell for another 8 years as you believe. They brought Superman back and he is going to stay here because the character is profitable.

Bingo!

 

[lexlives]

You have to choose a stance though, on one hand you are saying the whole internet is a buzz with negativity but on the other you are preaching that middle ground is not enough. Did you see the kid rumors on television? I didn't. Did you see the kid rumors on CNN, MSNBC, FOX NEWS respective internet sites? I didnt. The buzz about the kid, again, was on sites just like the one you're on right now. MOVIE FAN SITES. People who frequent these sites aren't the average movie goer, which is why Superman Returns even made 200 million dollars domestically and sold 25 million some odd tickets. WB accomplished what it wanted in terms of reintroducing Superman, the character was everywhere in 2006. They didn't see the profit they would have liked, 500million worldwide was their goal, but they are moving forward one way or another. The franchise will not be mired in development hell for another 8 years as you believe. They brought Superman back and he is going to stay here because the character is profitable.

You underestimate the influence of the net on genre films. Many, many Superman fans were pretty much turned off by SR by last February/March. The flame wars and debates and bannings were there for all to see. Casual surfers who came into a Superman site figured that, if so many Superman fans thought the film would be bad, they would pass on it. Which they did.

I work in a building with 6.000 people. The posters for FF 2 and Spidey 3 and the screensavers are up eveerywhere in cubicles. If you think that is not a powerful advertisement - and these are the folks who post of genre message boards - you have another thing coming.

I can tell you I saw nada - no poster or screensave - for SR last year in the leadup at my office.

Forget the internet. I mentioned the suit. The photos at Newsweek and EW and others drew mocking letters in those publications. The media is amorphous now and the net along with the mags are making FF2 and Spidey3 - with the public - just like they turned the public off to SR.

BTW, I suspect WB was looking for lots more WW than 500 million. They are not happy or can't be with the BO and now the DVD numbers. I absolutely believe they are re-evaluating even as we post.

Don't be so sure yet that WB does not or will not put it all on hold again. Let's wait till ShoWest in March. WB will announce their summer 2009 tentpole films. I will not at all be surprised if Superman is not on that list.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

You underestimate the influence of the net on genre films.

Yup, just look at Snakes on a Plane.




Oh wait, you mean the general public didn't take to a film with huge internet buzz? Well blow me down.

 

[lexlives]

Yup, just look at Snakes on a Plane.




Oh wait, you mean the general public didn't take to a film with huge internet buzz? Well blow me down.

Snakes On A Plane was not a genre film with a built in rabid fanbase. You are setting yourself up for a fall IMO if you support and beleive a Singer sequel will do well at the BO.

 

[Showtime]

Casual surfers do not come onto sites such as Superherohype or Bluetights, SUPERMAN FANS do. The general public is not drooling over their computers with their eyes glued to the screen to watch me and you debate the merits of The Man of Steel sequel. So in a building of 6000 people they all have either FF2 and Spidey 3 posters on their cubicle walls, not to mention screensavers? I don't find that powerful, I find that far fetched.

If you are not exaggerating, which I find hard to believe, then you are again proving my point. These are the people that POST ON MESSAGEBOARDS, not the general public. No SR posters or screensavers? You check 6000 peoples offices and computers? That's just weird.

I don't know how the 5th highest grossing movie of the year that sold over 25million tickets could equal a public that was turned off. Both Newsweek and EW also featured articles praising the film and the parties involved. Again, your creating a tornado out of a breeze.

 

[lexlives]

Casual surfers do not come onto sites such as Superherohype or Bluetights, SUPERMAN FANS do. The general public is not drooling over their computers with their eyes glued to the screen to watch me and you debate the merits of The Man of Steel sequel. So in a building of 6000 people they all have either FF2 and Spidey 3 posters on their cubicle walls, not to mention screensavers? I don't find that powerful, I find that far fetched.

If you are not exaggerating, which I find hard to believe, then you are again proving my point. These are the people that POST ON MESSAGEBOARDS, not the general public. No SR posters or screensavers? You check 6000 peoples offices and computers? That's just weird.

I don't know how the 5th highest grossing movie of the year that sold over 25million tickets could equal a public that was turned off. Both Newsweek and EW also featured articles praising the film and the parties involved. Again, your creating a tornado out of a breeze.

I did not say every cubilce. Many - three or four anyway in each section of 50 that I travel into. While I never saw a single SR poster.

The 5th biggest film doing just 16 in DVD sales is a bad sign in terms of a sequel.

Again, underperforming films which overperform on DVD get unexpected sequels. SR underperformed on DVD compared to BO. I am talking ranking here but it is a factor studios use to evaluate viability of a film and potential sequels. There is not viability indicated here.

The numbers are not good no matter how one tries to twist them.

Is this the foundation that holds promise for a successful sequel - be honest? Do you want a third film? Are you sure there will be one after a second Singer film? Come on, they are talking of FF 3 in 2009 already. That is how solid that franchise is and how great 2 looks, but with SR we have posters asking Singer to wrap things up in 2 as there may not be a third.

For the life of me I don't understand why anyone wants to take this risk with the franchise - especially fans. We have a much better chance of getting several more Superman films in our lifetimes if they do a reboot than we do if they continue with Singer. Do you disagree on that and, if so, why?

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Snakes On A Plane was not a genre film with a built in rabid fanbase. You are setting yourself up for a fall IMO if you support and beleive a Singer sequel will do well at the BO.

You never mentioned a "rabid fanbase." You merely mentioned that the internet has an influence on genre films (and last I checked Snakes on a Plane was a genre film). And in that regard, I was pointing out that the internet has little affect on the general public.

Which is true.

 

[Showtime]

The sequel was already cfmed and announced with Singer at the helm so far. I didn't say the numbers were great, but box office numbers and DVD numbers are good. I am not twisting words in any direction, you're trying to paint SR as a disaster which it is not. It is what it is. No matter how you slice it the facts are all there in front of us. The movie didn't bomb and wasn't as much of a disaster as you would have liked it to be, nor was it the biggest movie of the year.

 

[Simon]

So for Superman to be a POTC type of success it has to be a completely empty experience with no real depth like so many comic book films like X3 Spider-Man and so on. If all the general audience or comic geeks want are brain dead punch ups with no plot, well, screw them. I'm glad WB are going the way they are with Batman and Superman. They're making films with real substance and care and as for kids today not interested in that well too bad, the other bloody day I over heard one brat saying the first Star Wars was boring and had too much talking in it, STAR WARS!. Why would you want Superman to cater to that audience with an attention span of a fruit fly. If you don't like the film for the way it was made, then fine. Don't keep on using BO results or whatever as proof that it is a bad film cause if that kid, POTC or X3 is a indication of the type of film it has to be then we're better off without it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

No matter how the haters preach we a re going to get an SR sequel, and being someone who thought SR was fantastci, i cant wait for it.