They Got It Wrong???!!! Or Did They?!?!?????

Discussion in 'X-Men 1, 2 & 3' started by Robin91939, May 16, 2006.

  1. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    X-men, X2: X-men United, and now X3: The Last Stand have something very much in common...Wolverine.

    X-men: He is believed until the end to be the "weapon" Magneto is after. He is in virtually every action scene, and it is through HIS eyes that we meet the X-men and experience these fantastic events. In my opinion this was a terrific approach. It worked because he was able to be as shocked as we would be to find ourselves in the same situation. Had it been through, say, Cyclops' or Storms eyes it would not have had the same effect. Plus, with Wolverine, you could already have the X-men an established entity...a big plus for a story with already so many odds and ends. Singer worked this to perfection. Balanced enough of the other characters in, with it centering around Wolverine...who despite what fans what, is what people think of when they think of X-men.

    X2: X-men United: The story from the first film continues. The registration act was shot down, so what happens? An Anti-Mutant activist goes off on his own to eliminate the mutants in question. This is a great story, and draws HEAVILY on the terrific graphic novel, GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS. In a near stroke of genius Harris, Dougherty, Penn, and Hayter decided to add one other thing. The intriguing and virtually untold story of Wolverine's past. No one can say that this idea didn't light a little fire in their bellies. It's an interesting one, and it was told well- ambiguously, but thoroughly. Again, there is a good job done by Singer to balance stories. Wolverine's quest for his past, Jean's transformation to the Phoenix, Nightcrawler, Pyro, Rogue and Bobby's romance, and various others. Sure, Cyclops and Professor X took a bit of a back seat, but in GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS, they did as well.

    X3: The Last Stand: Wolverine becomes the leader of the X-men. Well, more like second in command, to Storm. We also see Wolverine have a lot of trouble trying to take this role. This isn't out of character for him in the movies or the comics. He isn't all "berserker fury"...he can lead, just not always the way Xavier would want...that's where Storm would come in as his conscious.
    Scott is seen and viewed by others as having too much emotional stress, understandably, from loosing the love of his life; his mind is unfit to lead. Storm is ready. She is a great character, despite people's distaste for Halle, Storm has always been somewhat of a leader of the X-men, and even was when Cyclops would be absent. Jean's story as the Phoenix (from all clips I've seen) is awesome. I also love that they made her the "straw that broke the camel’s back" in Eric and Charles' relationship. Beast seems great. Pyro and Iceman are finally full on players. And the Juggernaut and Shadow Cat are great additions. The only concerns I have are that Colossus (my second favorite mutant behind Cyclops), Rogue, and Angel seem underused. But in a movie like this there will always be under developed characters.

    Yes, I just recapped six years and three movies. Why? Because of all of the complaining. I am not a "big-time" X-men poster, but I read here daily, and have been around here for a little while...and I don't think people understand that with an X-men movie...there will be a LOT of Wolverine. But to put it in perspective:

    If there were an AVENGERS (live action) movie, who would be the lead? Captain America, right? No brainier. Would Iron Man fans get pissed? Would Thor fans? Probably a little, but they would realize that Captain America is the figure head of the group, not just the leader.
    And while Wolverine is NOT the leader of the X-men, he is the figure head.

    If there were a live action TEEN TITANS movie...who would take the lead? Starfire? No. Cyborg? No. Superboy? eh...No. Robin would. Because he is the figure head of the group. The movie would have all of these characters, but he would be the big "money" hero of the film.

    We really have to accept that this is the way things are going to happen. Not just put butts in the seats and sell toys, but because to the general public, Wolverine is the most interesting character, because he has that "bad ass" edge. Why they hold him in higher regard to say, Beast, Colossus, Cyclops, etc I don't know. But since his debut in the 70's he has. It's just smart writing to build the movie AROUND him, which is what they've done...all THREE times. It's not like Ratner made this idea up, because the comics and Singer have done it too.

    So I really just hope, and this is wishful thinking, that this can make people pause before they make the "X-MAN" comments, because it's really not necessary. All movies need a central character...for these movies it is Wolverine.

    -R
     
  2. Jennifer Walters Attorney at Law

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    Wow. Nice post.
     
  3. kevhulk73 Registered

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    Bravo....well done.
     
  4. Johnny Israel Provider of Awesome

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    :::Starts a slow a clap::::up:
     
  5. Skullbearer Registered

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    Thats alot of words there. Hmmm.
     
  6. dr venture Registered

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    *joins in on clap*
     
  7. Jennifer Walters Attorney at Law

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    Even in Fantastic Four, there was more of a focus on Johnny and the Thing, than Sue or Reed.

    At least it seemed that way to me.

    But now that I think on it, those 4 seemed pretty equally focused on. No one really got shafted persay. Sue's role didn't really have too much meat on it though. She was basically the pretty face that the villian and team leader fought over.

    The three guys had more meatier roles.
     
  8. Kurosawa Registered

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    The difference is is that Wolverine isn't the leader in the comics, and he's not always been the main focus. in fact the comics were better when he WASN'T the main focus. The main characters in X3 should have been Phoenix first and Cyclops second.
     
  9. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    Yeah, in the words of Jonny "Every team needs a mascot".

    -R
     
  10. Spidey 2007 Renegade

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    but they arnt the most popular....
     
  11. Gilpesh Registered

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    Well what can I say to that Robin91939? You got it, you're good you.
     
  12. zer00 Registered

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    Good post
     
  13. Boiiinng Demigod

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    I disagree on one point. For the general movie going public, Wolverine is not needed as the "eyes of the story." It could be told from many different points of view. Is Wolvie the most loved mutant by the fans? I doubt it. Gambit is way up there, too. Is he known to non-fans? Doubt it.

    Wolverine is simply a means to an end. He's the only one who can stop Jean because of his healing power, and therefore was in the same location as Rogue in the first movie so that he could be brought into the story. Nice storytelling, but is it necessary to make a trilogy work for the X-Men? No. It's just another way of doing it to include not just the original team, but the favorites from the Giant Size era.
     
  14. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    First thing is:
    Consistancy. Both movies thus far built around Wolverine while incorporating a LOT of great story. Why mess with a winning formula?

    Second is the fact that Phoenix is still a pretty main character. It seems to be that the two main stories are: The Cure and the mutant battle to stop it, and the Phoenix. Also, while Scott isn't a main character, his death is pivitol, and will resonate through the film. His presense and ghost will haunt the mansion (not literally of course) and motivate the X-men (as well as Wolverine) to act as he would and be heroes.

    Wolverine is going to be a very reluctant leader in the film. He is going to just be doing what needs to be done. He, in the comics is an anti-hero. Key word being "hero". A hero will save the world and do what is right when it has to be done.

    -R
     
  15. Moriarte Registered

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    I agree to a point. I agree that Singer did well in X-Men 1 & 2 in balancing all the characters yet having Wolverine play a central role. Wolverine said at the end of X2 that 'he's fine now:' this signals that his character has to come terms with himself so as an audience we can move on to other characters--other relationships.

    However, Wolverine in X-Men 3 seems very over-exposed, there's a seeming lack of balance, and the treatment of Cyclops is way too harsh to excuse on a money-making character and the relationship between Cyclops and Jean was crushed, subverted, and strangled around the noose that is the Wolverine plot device.
     
  16. BMM Registered

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    I would agree with this, because I think that's what the writers intended, but after listening to most or all reviews say that Cyclops death seems ineffective and resonates little throughout the rest of the film, I don't think it is as powerful a moment as originally suggested.
     
  17. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    For the the first movie I think it was genius to tell the story through his eyes. The second wasn't through his eyes, but did center around him.

    As far as the fans go, I'd say that the big five fan favorites would look something like: (no order)
    Cyclops, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Gambit, and Rogue. I don't know, something like that. But we are really only a drop in the bucket. These movies are made to portray the characters that we know and love and show them off to the main public. And Wolverine appeals, literally, to the animal in all of us. He is everything we can't be. Invulnerable, but troubled. Bad ass, but with a soft spot. Dangerous but caring. He is the ultimate warrior and the ultimate tough guy. He is who the public wants...he's what they got, and they ate it up.

    -R
     
  18. Kurosawa Registered

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    Because it's a formula that hurts other characters. He's had his day and is getting his own series of movies.

    His death is hardly even mentioned and it means next to nothing. It was only done to degrade the character and to get rid of the character.

    He's basically given Cyclops rightful part in the Dark Phoenix Saga. So he's turned into something he's not.
     
  19. Spidey 2007 Renegade

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    lol Wolverine is one of the top 3 most popular marvel heroes. theres spiderman, wolverine, and Hulk. Gambit is close, but nowhere near the popularity of wolvie, out of millions of fans....millions upon millions of geek fans and casual fans. wolverine is so amazingly popular and gambit is decreasing due to his lack of movie time, and wolvie is only increasing as the population grows...
     
  20. Mike059jig DESTROY GOTHAM!!!

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    that post is good put also will be the flaw for the movies..yes movies need a central character..but x-men had its central character for 2 movies...x-men comics never centered around one character..X3 when you start pushing wolverine role into another characters role..a pivotal character its wrong...Cyclops used a plot device in his story is unacceptable...
     
  21. Kurosawa Registered

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    I personally hate the character, but yes, the general public ate him up. There's no accounting for taste, I suppose.
     
  22. Jennifer Walters Attorney at Law

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    As fars as fans go...the list of top favorite characters seems more like this to me..

    Wolverine
    Jean Grey
    Storm
    Gambit
    Nightcrawler
     
  23. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    I realize that there are people, like yourself who don't like him. But I mean, there are people who hate...say, Batman. And yet his movies will always be huge. Because the film-makers won't cater to the minority.

    I don't not like Wolverine, I DO think he is over-rated, but he is a good enough character and Jackman plays him so well it brings him to another level.
    Told you I'm not on here that often, lol :) . But yeah, I was just kind of going on feeling, of posts I've seen, the movies, 90's show, X-men Evolution (which I loved), comics, etc.

    -R
     
  24. The Guard Registered

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    Wolverine's been well-written. His storyarcs and screentime have been interesting. Has his presence cost other characters? Yes, but...I notice no one *****es about Magneto's screentime costing others development. Or Xavier's. It's not only Wolverine's screentime that costs other characters. They're all in this together, with so many characters to introduce and spotlight.

    This isn't the comics.
     
  25. HeroLover Registered

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    The Cyclops loving on this board is absolutely hysterical. I have never meet an X-Fan who actually likes him, never. He is a loser. A controlling dick who likes to think he is a nice guy and that's why everybody treats him like crap. He doesn't realize the reason everybody hates him is because how badly he sucks at life. This so-called leader runs away like a wussy teenager the minute his feelings are hurt and leaves running the X-Men to the adults. I think their similarities to Cyclops are the reason fanboys have such a hard on for him. It's like looking in a mirror.
     

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