Batman Begins Things Batman Begins got Right/Wrong

[GoogleMe94]

ive seen this in the misc. batfilms thread, so i thought i'd start it here with my thoughts.


pro's:

-bruce wayne. they got the character if him right, the playboy aspect as well as the brooding aspect.
- Gotham was dark dank city that looked dirty and not all neon and colored.
- Alfred was fleshed out more then he had been in the other movies.
-Gordon was finally done justice like the way he is in the comics, 'stache and all.
-Batmobile can go REALLY fast this time and now the speed of a golf cart.
- gave great explanations about how batman got his stuff and how he became batman in a plausible fashion that made sense.


con's:

-Falcone didnt come off as dangerous as as he is in the comics, and he talked like a common hood, like a bad godfather impression. came off more funny then threatning.
-Ras is not a deadly enviromentalist but some kind of nihlist. i dont remember him being like this in the comics.
-the Fat-suit. and the tight mouthpiece. combined with that voice. made batman look stupid.
-"nice coat" "excuse me" "its what i DOOO that defines me". please.
-Flass was totally unlike the comics version, which i felt worked better. he was more deadly and a threat to gordon and his ideas while in the film he was the least threatning corrupt cop ever. lame.
-Batmobile, or "tumbler". may have rode awsome in the movie, but it looked like sh**, plain and simple.
-fight scenes. nuff said.
-scarecrow. looked nothing like in the comics, and certainly wasnt as scary or creepy. and when did scarecrow become a young pretty boy with a whisper?
-Katie holmes. nuff said.


you may carry on with your own comments.

 

[El Payaso]

Wrong:

- the fights and its editing
- some corny, spoonfeeding dialogue
- one-liners
- Rachel Dawes, but it might have been just Katie Holmes as her.
- Scarecrow. Everything about him except the fact he used fear gas.
- Flass. That is not Flass.

I think everything else is quite good.

 

[Armored Avenger]

-scarecrow. looked nothing like in the comics, and certainly wasnt as scary or creepy. and when did scarecrow become a young pretty boy with a whisper?

I thought Scarecrow was one of the best things about Batman Begins. His performance was great, and his look suited the feel of Batman Begins. He would have been less scary if he was dressed in proper Scarecrow clothes and had a sort of Jack-O-Lantern face. Although i love Scarecrows look in the comics, it wouldnt have suited Batman Begins. And although i never saw him as a "pretty boy" i can understand why he was younger. Batman is younger in this film franchise, and in the comics Scarecrow is never described as being dramatically older or younger than Bruce Wayne, so it makes sense for him to be around the same age.

 

[El Payaso]

I thought Scarecrow was one of the best things about Batman Begins. His performance was great, and his look suited the feel of Batman Begins. He would have been less scary if he was dressed in proper Scarecrow clothes and had a sort of Jack-O-Lantern face. Although i love Scarecrows look in the comics, it wouldnt have suited Batman Begins. And although i never saw him as a "pretty boy" i can understand why he was younger. Batman is younger in this film franchise, and in the comics Scarecrow is never described as being dramatically older or younger than Bruce Wayne, so it makes sense for him to be around the same age.

In comics, Crane is very much described as ugly. But Murphy's interpretation was affeminate and cliché-scary. Oooh, I'm scary, I talk slow and open my eyes too much. You know. Oh, and the last scene...

I agree about the costume though. It felt right to me.

 

[GoogleMe94]

In comics, Crane is very much described as ugly. But Murphy's interpretation was affeminate and cliché-scary. Oooh, I'm scary, I talk slow and open my eyes too much. You know. Oh, and the last scene...

I agree about the costume though. It felt right to me.

exactly about scarecrow. he was not that scary to me. burtons penguin was scary. hell, even catwoman at times was "scary". but nolans scarecrow....not scary. you know, i actually recall that spongebob episode where the flying dutchman it putting down spongebobs flying dutchman outfit for some odd reason...t:

as for the costume, it felt right.....in nolans batman world. but in reality, thats not how scarecrow dresses or looks. before nolan, i have never seen any interpretation of scarecrow wearing a suit and tie. why? let me think....maybe cuz it looks lame? yeah i think thats it. i wish scarecrow was done like bryan singer was thinking with superman, he wanted him be like he stepped out of your collective consiousness of what you know about the character. and what everyone knows or thinks os when they think of scarecrow is straw, scarecroiw outfit, big scary mask, brim hat, forkpick. but that was nowhere present in nolans movie. that was dissapoiting. and on top of that, he has the lamest take down scene of any villian in the franchise.

 

[sasquatchs]

Cons:

The repeated verbalization of every idea
Lecturing/speechifying from every character Bruce encounters
The way every character fits neatly into their wafer-thin predefined role
Poor and inconsistent motivations
Overly plot driven, too much exposition to rush through so no room to breath
Saintly good guys, cartoon bad guys. Lack of complexity
The excruciating detail of the unimportant and the merest hint of the interesting
Couldn't decide if it was a popcorn film or something serious
Poor flow
Completely out of place 3rd act
Overly sentimental
Music
Disjointed editing

Pros:

Like the idea of the fantastic in a mundane world
The fights. Batman as a predator
The inspiration/theatrical perception theme
The design, gliding Batman
Scarecrow, Alfred, Gordon (apart from the monorail travesty)
Enjoyable
Untapped potential for TDK

 

[Nightwing1977]

-the Fat-suit. and the tight mouthpiece. combined with that voice. made batman look stupid.

Fat suit? Are you serious? It tight. You're looking too much there.

-scarecrow. looked nothing like in the comics, and certainly wasnt as scary or creepy. and when did scarecrow become a young pretty boy with a whisper?

Typical "Scarecrow" comment there, BatmanRules33/Batwing6655/Dr. Satan/brownish33. And you have no problem with Keaton? Keaton look nothing like Bruce Wayne in the comics & now you're complaining Scarecrow look nothing like the comics & more of a pretty boy, but ok with Keaton? Now you're just being hysterical there.

Oh, how come you never fuss about Nicholson as Joker either, when Joker wasn't old, fat, & balding in the comics. Funny how some dislike the character in the movie because they look nothing like the character in the comics, but ok with other characters who doesn't look like the comics either.

 

[Mr. Socko]

In comics, Crane is very much described as ugly. But Murphy's interpretation was affeminate and cliché-scary. Oooh, I'm scary, I talk slow and open my eyes too much. You know. Oh, and the last scene...

I agree about the costume though. It felt right to me.

What? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, Scarecrow was in this movie?

All I saw was potato sack man using fear gas. The real "Scarecrow" look didn't fit in Nolan's dark gritty realism is the excuse I always hear, yet a man dressed up in a big rubber bat-suit fits well? If they're just going to place a potato sack over Crane's head then they might as well also just have given Bruce the cowl, and have him wear a 3-piece suit with it while fighting crime.

And like GoogleMe said, Falcone as well. He had potential, but it all just wasn't there. I didn't get the feeling he was the Kingpin, or Godfather(if you will) of Gotham. He didn't seem dangerous besides the first scene he was in. Like when Crane says that Al Ghul is coming, Falcone gets nervous and jittery as if he's afraid of Al Ghul. If Falcone runs all of Gotham then why would he be scared of Ra's and a few of his ninjas? Falcone's responce in this scene was "*gulp* you mean he's coming here", it should have been more along the lines of "Let him come, and he better have an army with him, because I own the streets of Gotham." In short, he did not seem as imposing in personality nor as confident as Carmine should be, he's called the "The Roman" for a reason.

But I agree with Payaso on the rest, everything else was pretty good.

 

[Damiean Dark]

Ill said it before and ill say it again the more serious a batfilm the more apparent are the flaws things that can be taken with a grain of salt in say BR or B&R are more pronounced in a film like BB this is why its flaws are debated so much i think.

 

[GoogleMe94]

^exactly. burton and to an extent schumacher, werent going for ultra realism, but for surrealism. yeah, surrealism doesnt like realism very much, but thats whats needed in a comic book film. i admire nolans effort to being a serious realism to batman, and to an extent it worked, but there were things that like you said, stuck out and were made apparent after you build up such a realistic, serious world.

and Mr. socko, great post, precisly what ive been trying to say.

 

[TomPiltoff]

exactly about scarecrow. he was not that scary to me. burtons penguin was scary. hell, even catwoman at times was "scary". but nolans scarecrow....not scary. you know, i actually recall that spongebob episode where the flying dutchman it putting down spongebobs flying dutchman outfit for some odd reason...t:

I can tell we aren't going to ever see face to face seeing as how you consider The Penguin to be scary...

as for the costume, it felt right.....in nolans batman world. but in reality, thats not how scarecrow dresses or looks. before nolan, i have never seen any interpretation of scarecrow wearing a suit and tie. why? let me think....maybe cuz it looks lame? yeah i think thats it.

You say the Scarecrow costume looked right for Nolan's Batman world but then go on to say that in reality it doesn't look like that.

Nolan's Batman world IS meant to be as realistic as possible and Scarecrow fits that perfectly.

How the hell do you expect Scarecrow in the real world to wear a farmers hat and carry a pitchfork? It's ridiculous and unrealistic.

It's much more real to have him just be a psychotic doctor who hides a sick mask on his person.

And I cannot believe somebody actually tried to counter that argument with 'Yeah well is a guy in a bat suit realistic?'

Not in and of itself, no. But the movie goes into great lengths to explain WHY that does exist in this gritty world.

How would you explain Scarecrow? Crane hides a costume in his office?

 

[Mr. Socko]

Yeah, I'm sure Nolan and co could have tonight of a simple reason. You don't think they're smart enough?

 

[Nightwing1977]

^exactly. burton and to an extent schumacher, werent going for ultra realism, but for surrealism. yeah, surrealism doesnt like realism very much, but thats whats needed in a comic book film. i admire nolans effort to being a serious realism to batman, and to an extent it worked, but there were things that like you said, stuck out and were made apparent after you build up such a realistic, serious world.

Are you sure you're not a comic book fanboy? You sound like one with saying it shouldn't be too realstic. That what hardcore fanboys would say about comic book movies: no realism. But I remeber you calling those you dislike as fanboys or those who want Batman movies closer to the comics with what Nolan did than Burton & Schumacher did.

It funny how some say if Nolan keep going with serious or realism too much, it would be too flawed. Sound like Burton when he was making BR. He keep making the movie weirder & weirder, that it suck. Now we can see the 2 aren't any different.

And btw, Penguin was not meant to be scary. Do anyone ever read comics or know about Penguin at all? He was suppose to be a crime boss with unique look, but never scary!! That why I didn't like what Burton's vision of Penguin. He try to make him scary, when he wasn't suppose to be. Joker was suppose to be scary as a psycho clown, but Burton made him campy funny instead. So much for Burton try to make characters scary or he got it right.

 

[Numez]

[this message was deleted by a gamefaqs moderator]

 

[Volvic]

Where the film went wrong -

- The script was as subtle as a sledgehammer in places.

- Rachel Dawes. I don't put 100% of the blame on Holmes for that one. There wasn't much to the character to begin with. More of a plot point than someone the audience can become invested in. A lot of the characters in the film didn't have much too them either, but it was far more obvious in Dawes case.

- Scarecrow didn't do anything for me at all. There's realistic and then there's bland. He seemed more like a stock villian than A-list rogue, I wasn't looking for theatrics - I just want some kind of characterization with my villians. A little bit of depth.

- Also, it was like Nolan couldn't make up his mind if he wanted a regular popcorn superhero flick, or something vastly different. The film suffers for it.

The positives -

-Liked that they showed Bruce doing his playboy act. It highlight's Batman's commitment to his mission.

-It was nice to see Alfred as fleshed out as he was. Makes a nice change from the old generic english butler routine.

- Ditto for Gordon.

-The fight scenes were nicely done.

 

[The Joker]

-The fight scenes were nicely done.

Well, there's an opinion you don't see every day. Most people seemed to hate how the fight scenes were done with the shaky camera.

 

[Volvic]

Well, there's an opinion you don't see every day. Most people seemed to hate how the fight scenes were done with the shaky camera.

Yeah, well they're not going to make my top 100 of all time or anything, but I thought they were okay in comparison to other aspects of the film which I've come to loathe.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Batman Begins is the only Batman film to ever have greatly choreographed fight scenes. Yet the cinematography during said fight scenes left me unable to see anything.

 

[El Payaso]

I forgot to mention the stupid 'I knew he'll come' kid in the wrong list.

 

[悪魔天]

Well, there's an opinion you don't see every day. Most people seemed to hate how the fight scenes were done with the shaky camera.

I think it was done that way to maybe make the audience feel like they were in the fight with Bruce

 

[The Joker]

I think it was done that way to maybe make the audience feel like they were in the fight with Bruce

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that most of the time it was hard to make out what was going on.

I hope it's not in TDK.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Its not realistic for a guy to be obsessed with inducing fear and dress like a Scarecrow to help do so, but its realistic for a guy to dress like a bat and use fear as a weapon? Which is more realitic? Im confused as to the Nolan thought programming on this.

The problem with Begins is they tried to take a comic book character and make him real. In the real world. He's a comic book character. He wouldnt exist in the "real" world.

 

[BubbaGump]

"The movie is not realistic, because how could it be, but it acts as if it is."

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050613/REVIEWS/50525003/1023

 

[roach]

Cons-
1)Bruce's motivation to become Batman came from Chill being offered early parole....so had Chill never gotten out of jail there would be no Batman. The comics show that the day his parents died he put himself on the path to becoming Batman.
2)Microwave emitter/gas Gotham plan.
3)Rachel Dawes finding out Bruce was Batman and then the next morning able to diagnose that Bruce is the mask and Batman is the person...wtf.
The admitting that she loves him...that came out of left field.
4)Michael Caine as Alfred. I know everyone loves him but I kept seeing Michael Caine and not Alfred.
5)Gordon as only comic relief
6)Bruce pretty much getting all his equipment from Lucius Fox
7) The only reason we are given to like Fox is because he knew Bruce's dad.
8) stupid rubber suit
9)fight scenes

Pros
1) Gordon's look was spot on
2)Bruce's look was spot on

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

Right

It's about batman this time
Great performances
Raz and scarecrow were implemented into the movie pretty well without being cheeseball
The story is more coherent and interesting
It's dark and brooding
Gordon and Alfred are more important than before
It's closer to the comics than Burton's or Schumacher'
Batman fly's
Nice music score
Cool ending
Batman is no longer gay
Joel Schumacher didn't make this movie

Wrong

Falconi is badly acted
Rachael is badly acted
As with all the batman movies, cornball lines and cliche' are still prominent, but better executed.
Nice coat!
Homeless man and wide eye'd kid magically re-appear.