Sequels Things to Get Right

[Infinity9999x]

Hey Everyone.

Well, since the possibility of a SM4 seems to be a bit uncertain at the moment, I thought I'd make a thread to discuss the things a new director could get right if Sony opted to simply do a rebot in the next few years. (if there's already a thread like this I'm sorry mods, please delete this then)

Peter and Spider-man. I figured I'd start the discussion with the main man. I'm going to paste one of my comments from another thread for this.

Spider-man in the Raimi wasn't even a character, he was Peter in a suit, and that is not Spider-man.

Peter, especially in his early years, became a different person in the Spider-man suit. Just like Bruce Wayne becomes a different person in the Batman suit. As Spider-man, Peter finally gets an outlet to express the confidence he doesn't have as Peter Parker. This is why Spider-man is a jabber mouth when he's fighting his enemies. That and because Peter has said that he thinks he'd go crazy from the fear of battle if he didn't run his mouth to distract himself.

The cocky attitude and quips are essential to Spider-man's character. Having Spider-man remain a near mute as he did in Raimi's movies isjust as wrong for the character of Spider-man as it would be to have Batman cracking witty one liners.

By basically eliminating this aspect of the character, Raimi failed to show us Peter's confident side, and it also removes a reason for people to believe that Peter is not Spider-man, because Spider-man is much more vocal and boisterous then Peter.

And in regards to the character of Peter Parker, Raimi barley showed us any of Peter's intelligence, and completley disregarded his engineering skills. Peter does not merley spout a few intelligent sounding sentences like he does in the movies, he actually creates and invents things. Raimi showed us none of that.

Also, by the time Peter was in colledge he much more confident as Peter Parker. Raimi didn't show us that either, he had Peter act the way he did in highschool, which wasn't accurate to the character.

The reasons I stated above are why I'm hoping for a reboot, because I hope that a new director treats Spider-man/Peter a little better then Raimi did.



Anyone else feel free to post on things they'd like to see changed if Sony goes for a Reboot.

 

[SlyGuyTtjn]

If Venom is in it.. They need Venom to taunt Spider-man more.. Stalk him like he did in TAS cartoon. He also needs more fighting time IMO..

No more dancing.. It's getting old. And they need more development on new villians

 

[Visionary]

NO MORE listening to dumbass fanboys!

 

[Arcturus]

As much as I loved SM3, don't cram in so many villains that you cant give them the screen-time that they deserve.

 

[Infinity9999x]

If Venom is in it.. They need Venom to taunt Spider-man more.. Stalk him like he did in TAS cartoon. He also needs more fighting time IMO..

No more dancing.. It's getting old. And they need more development on new villians

I definatley agree there. I read quite a bit that Venom was a "horrible villian" or a "boring character." Which I think were bad claims. You can make Venom into a good character, it just depends on how creative you are.

And I definatley agree on the cramming villians thing. They need to either cut back next time, or find a better way to incorporate multiple villians, like in Batman Begins.

 

[Visionary]

As much as I loved SM3, don't cram in so many villains that you cant give them the screen-time that they deserve.

That would be the part of listening to (we want Venom now) dumbass fanboys.

 

[Arcturus]

That would be the part of listening to (we want Venom now) dumbass fanboys.

What are you saying?

 

[DACrowe]

1. THERE WILL NOT BE A REBOOT IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS. BB spoiled some people. The Spidey movies are rolling fine. The next one will have a 4 in the title.

2. Raimi and Maguire nail early Parker. They then branch off their itnerpretation from there in the sequels to make his progression make sense to them and that means smaller steps. You won't see square PP in ASM #38 and cool cat Petey-O in ASM #39. But he is growing up and gaining confidence slowly. Maguire has given three heart-felt, nuanced and quite thick performances. He really is taken for granted by fanboys.

3. I agree that Spidey's personality is not fleshed out enough. Raimi admits he sees them as the same person. I agree. But Spidey is who Peter is free to say what he thinks. I understand Raimi's reasoning of taking out the quips. They cheapen the action and make it feel comical. Raimi wants death-defying shocking and amazing action sequences. He delivers. He cuts out the few quips he has usually in this process. It is unfortunate but I get it can cut tension. Perhaps he should let Joss Whedon give it a try, he seems to balance that well enough.

 

[Immortalfire]

Keep his damn mask on.

 

[Mr Jide]

Raimi needs to....no scratch that, hopefully, we'll get a new director and who ever we get needs to be man enough to have the balls to respect and appreciate the world the source material revolves itself around and for that understanding to be shown in the movies.

First, we need a damn good writer who knows the character of spider-man.
secondly, lets get spidey's movements right too. I want to see some actual wall crawling, more bouncing off walls, keeping the damn mask on.

Hot looking women to play the parts of hot looking characters, its not a difficult task to do. We're not asking or demanding that the wheel be reinvented.

and for the love of everything holy, if a budget of $250million+ is being spent on the movie, how about we get the movie looking rightfully so.

There's too much that needs rectifying and thats a damn shame, especially when you've got that idiot, Raimi bragging about how well he knows spidey and blah blah blah. Ugh!

 

[Infinity9999x]

1. THERE WILL NOT BE A REBOOT IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS. BB spoiled some people. The Spidey movies are rolling fine. The next one will have a 4 in the title.

2. Raimi and Maguire nail early Parker. They then branch off their itnerpretation from there in the sequels to make his progression make sense to them and that means smaller steps. You won't see square PP in ASM #38 and cool cat Petey-O in ASM #39. But he is growing up and gaining confidence slowly. Maguire has given three heart-felt, nuanced and quite thick performances. He really is taken for granted by fanboys.

3. I agree that Spidey's personality is not fleshed out enough. Raimi admits he sees them as the same person. I agree. But Spidey is who Peter is free to say what he thinks. I understand Raimi's reasoning of taking out the quips. They cheapen the action and make it feel comical. Raimi wants death-defying shocking and amazing action sequences. He delivers. He cuts out the few quips he has usually in this process. It is unfortunate but I get it can cut tension. Perhaps he should let Joss Whedon give it a try, he seems to balance that well enough.

I think it's unrealistic to believe that there will not, at some point in time, be a reboot, because Raimi can't do these things forever, and I don't think Spider-man is going to continue like James Bond.

Raimi and Mcguire only nail a bit of early Parker, and that's his awkwardness. They leave out a huge amount of his character, such as his mechanical abilities and his inventiveness. We barely see any of the science side of Peter, and when we do it's only in a few senteces loaded with big words. That is a very big part of the character.

And I'm sorry, but I really doubt that the quips will cheapen action sequences too much. In fact, they can add to drama. If Spidey's been quipping the whole movie, when he's in a serious fight and he slowly stops saying anything it will show the veiwer that he's serious. Heck, Bendis got it right in Ultmiats Spider-man. Ock says "what Mr. Parker? No whippy comebacks? That shows me that you're scared." and Spider-girl says "no, that shows you that he's serious."

Besides, loads of serious movies have their lead spout off quippy one liners and such. Look at V for Vendetta, that movie was ten times more serious in tone then any of the Spider-mans, but V constantly was making oddball jokes and such.

 

[Spidey Snooch]

The cocky attitude and quips are essential to Spider-man's character. Having Spider-man remain a near mute as he did in Raimi's movies isjust as wrong for the character of Spider-man as it would be to have Batman cracking witty one liners.

I've always been a big fan of Spidey's one-liners, but they just don't work on film. Having a villain wait while Spider-man delivers his lines just looks stupid. Watch the old Batman TV show. You'll see what I mean.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I've always been a big fan of Spidey's one-liners, but they just don't work on film. Having a villain wait while Spider-man delivers his lines just looks stupid. Watch the old Batman TV show. You'll see what I mean.

Who said anything about having a villian wait while he delivers them? And if you're talking about the Adwam West show (I'm assuming you must be, because Batman didn't quip in the 90's TAS) that's a horrible comparison.

With the technology we have now, you could quite easily have Mcguire do a voice over during a scene that's using a CGI Spidey in an action sequence, or simply film the action and do the voiceover's later.

If the 90's Spider-man TAS can have Spider-man shout insults at enemies while fighting there is no reason why a live action movie with 30times the budget can't.

 

[Spidey Snooch]

You know, you may be on to something there....

 

[DACrowe]

I love quips and I think in certain filmmakers style they work (see as previously mentioned Joss Whedon). Others it either comes off as hamfisted movie star BS (think JJ Abrams) or campy. Raimi tends to go for the campy with them unfortunately, as seen in Army of Darkness.

He allowed Spidey to crack wise at the wrestler in SM1 and it was funny because the audience wasn't supposed to be worried. I think when Raimi added a bad pun or two in the fire scene, he noticed it didn't work (GG dressed as a woman and Spidey saying the wisecrack, "You're the one whose out Gobby...out of your mind!").

It was corny. I'm not saying it has to be corny, but Raimi seems to not balance it well. He also hhas every fight to be serious and dramatic in SM2 and SM3. That is why there is only about 2-3 wisecracks in each movie (more like 1-2 in SM3, not counting dark Peter's mocking).

They all worked better but I agree there should have been a few more in SM2. But I understand Raimi's unwillingness. He wants the action sequences all to be suspensful, and just not the climax.

And yes the whole ASM #122 "What's wrong Parker? No pithy comeback? Did I do something wrong?" is classic build up when the jester is serious and fighting for his life and I feel it would have made a difference in SM3. When Peter was getting his ass kicked by GG in SM1, you felt the desperation of it but in SM3 it was like "Okay....Harry's going to show up anytime now..."

But I think that a constant berrage of wisecracks would not work on screen. More like a few well placed ones in every action sequence. But in Raimi's style I know why he took them out in the sequels and for what he was doing, I agree for the most part (but I think the "car chase" in SM2 and the moment in SM2 when Ock fries himself again after making a pun would've worked).


Also, I know they'll redo the Spidey movies. Hopefully starting with MJ AND GWEN and give a more toned down vision. But not in a few years. I don't think the next Spidey will be a reboot, like this thread suggests. I expect a Spidey 4 in 3 years with the Lizard and Peter and MJ together (not neccesarily the same actors though).

We'll see.

 

[Venom 1988]

I agree, one of my biggest complaints is the lack of quips. I mean he doesnt have to be doing it all the time, but jeez c'cmon thats one of the things he is best known for.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yes, I'm not saying he should quip quite as much as in the comics, but considerably more.

And with the fire example, yes that quip was corny, but I don't think it's because of placement, I think it's because it's just a bad quip. I think Better written wisecracks wouldn't stand out as much as the overly bad ones. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they hired Bendis just to write Spidey wisecracks for them because he doesn't use mindless insults. They're actually fairly intelligent and quite funny.

 

[Dr. Fate]

Yeah, more smart ass remarks from Spidey would be nice. Also, enough with the mask coming off in the climaxes.

 

[S_H_F_4839]

I think the big complaint is the wisecracks, that and I know I will probably get flamed for this but IMO Tobey Macguire was Miscast, I mean there are other characters he could have played I just cant think of any.

Here was my orignal pick for spidey, I bet he has gotten too old to play the high school part now, but I first thought of it when I saw him in 100 women back 2002

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0232414/

 

[DACrowe]

^ Really? That's an odd choice as he only seems to play small roles in bad TV shows. Why?

 

[phillip phonix]

just dont put so many stories into the film if they are only going to focus on Peter and MJ

 

[Visionary]

I love quips and I think in certain filmmakers style they work (see as previously mentioned Joss Whedon). Others it either comes off as hamfisted movie star BS (think JJ Abrams) or campy. Raimi tends to go for the campy with them unfortunately, as seen in Army of Darkness.

He allowed Spidey to crack wise at the wrestler in SM1 and it was funny because the audience wasn't supposed to be worried. I think when Raimi added a bad pun or two in the fire scene, he noticed it didn't work (GG dressed as a woman and Spidey saying the wisecrack, "You're the one whose out Gobby...out of your mind!").

It was corny. I'm not saying it has to be corny, but Raimi seems to not balance it well. He also hhas every fight to be serious and dramatic in SM2 and SM3. That is why there is only about 2-3 wisecracks in each movie (more like 1-2 in SM3, not counting dark Peter's mocking).

They all worked better but I agree there should have been a few more in SM2. But I understand Raimi's unwillingness. He wants the action sequences all to be suspensful, and just not the climax.

And yes the whole ASM #122 "What's wrong Parker? No pithy comeback? Did I do something wrong?" is classic build up when the jester is serious and fighting for his life and I feel it would have made a difference in SM3. When Peter was getting his ass kicked by GG in SM1, you felt the desperation of it but in SM3 it was like "Okay....Harry's going to show up anytime now..."

But I think that a constant berrage of wisecracks would not work on screen. More like a few well placed ones in every action sequence. But in Raimi's style I know why he took them out in the sequels and for what he was doing, I agree for the most part (but I think the "car chase" in SM2 and the moment in SM2 when Ock fries himself again after making a pun would've worked).


Also, I know they'll redo the Spidey movies. Hopefully starting with MJ AND GWEN and give a more toned down vision. But not in a few years. I don't think the next Spidey will be a reboot, like this thread suggests. I expect a Spidey 4 in 3 years with the Lizard and Peter and MJ together (not neccesarily the same actors though).

We'll see.

That's just it, the quips in the comics are corny, cheesy and campy. There's very little one can do to make it work. Unless the banter is a bit more obscure with an edge to them or the movie itself is a lot more adult-oriented (a la T2).

It's why I fear quips/banter in Spidey's films from Spidey.

 

[Blader5489]

The one-liners aren't really appropriate for most of the fights in the Spidey films because they involve Peter's loved ones in danger. If your girlfriend or aunt was in danger of falling to their death, would you be making sarcastic quips?

I'd also like to point out that the quips aren't non-existant in the movies. Spidey's make his remarks whenever someone isn't in danger. Off the top of my head:
"You're the one whose out Gobby...out of your mind!"
"I have a knack for that."
"Here's your change!"
"I guess you haven't heard. I'm the sheriff around here."

Plus, the conversation between Peter and Harry during their second fight was filled with their dumb remarks. So they aren't being ignored, just downplayed - and that's just because most of the fights have a serious tone to them.

 

[Dr. Fate]

just dont put so many stories into the film if they are only going to focus on Peter and MJ

No argument on that one.

 

[S_H_F_4839]

^ Really? That's an odd choice as he only seems to play small roles in bad TV shows. Why?

I saw him in 100 women, and he had the humor down in that, and I think he could pull off the smart alleck commets that spidey needs the wisecracks, he could do it without it sounding forced, example listen to tobey macguire in the games they wise cracks just sound forced to me for some reason.