The Amazing Spider-Man This Is Not Ultimate Spider-Man - This Is Spider-Man 4: 2.0

[Alex_Spider]

DACMAN said: "I will give you some of the things he was talking about was nitpicking. But the movies did have too much cheese. And the action scenes in all three were amazing so I don't know what he's talking about there. If there is one thing I want Webb to take note of it's Raimi's action scenes."

I never said that all action scenes in Spiderman 2 were crap. Only that particular with the two crooks in the car. Aside that, the fight scenes with Ock were jaw--droping. Personaly i will always praise the first Spiderman, wich aside the Goblin outfit, was an amazing comic adaptation, and for bringing in the big screen Spidey for the first time. But i think that this time we can get an even better film with Webb.

 

[Crook]

Only to those who are in denial about the roots of what they are fans of. Comic books and superheroes have long been "kid's stuff" (even though they, like Bugs Bunny, began as adult friendly material), and no amount of Killing Jokes or Kraven's Last Hunts or Watchmen is going to change that, but it seems to me that many comic book fans get overly offended by cheesy stuff because of a kind of insecurity about liking "kid's stuff".

While comics and superheroes aren't strictly "kid's stuff", a degree of stupid, kid-friendly fun is inherent in nearly every superhero created (the exceptions being those created as commentaries on existing characters, such as Rorschach), and there's nothing wrong with that.

It's inherent only in the roots of the genre. Comic books have long surpassed the era of catering to kids as their main demographic. A more apt description of the medium is that it is aimed towards the teen-adult crowd, while still being accessible to the youth.

The idea that it's still "kid's stuff" is damaging to the progressive movement of the industry and it's acceptance within mainstream. It's beyond false. I don't know how any reader post-80s can even agree with that sentiment. Though within the past decade, it's evident that is clearly changing from the majority perspective. There will still be those that turn their heads away from the notion that comic books are legitimate forms of literature, however. It has nothing to do with being ashamed of the genre, it's about being truthful to what the medium has accomplished within the past half century. The industry and material it provides is far, far, different from what it was in its inception.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Comics appeal to the younger generation. Batman 1989 was designed more for adults than kids,and that changed how even comics were perceived by adults.

Grant Morrison and Dave McKean's Arkham Asylum is designed for adults,and that is one of DC's best sellers.

Cartoons can appeal to the older generation,look at Animaniacs,that was more for them than kids IMO. I think on a poll,adults watched it more than children.

 

[DACMAN]

He calls me pretentious and obnoxious for demanding that fans be able to spell the characters names correct that google would also easily solve

Google is huge for a reason!

The difference is he was asking a question that he could have easily looked up himself. That's lazy. You were dismissing someone because they didn't put a "-" in Spider-Man. That's pretentious.

 

[Frodo]

I think regardless of which audience comics were originally conceived for, comic book based films, books, shows today either aim at a wide audience including children, teens and adults, or a group of fanboys and girls.

 

[TheSlag]

The movie's depiction of Venom is a very boiled down version of Venom's most (and only) important storyline: The Symbiote story and his origin. Aside from that, Venom is a fairly thin character as a Spider-Man villain (which is the only reason for him to be in a movie in the first place).

Yeah, why would we want to have seen:

A more fleshed out character than the very one dimensional, unjustified emotionaly motived Brock we got? Why not flesh out the character and make him darker/richer than the one trick pony (yes straight out of other media I am sure) we got. There have been bad personification of characters from comics and other mediums in the past, but I still expect a world class director to give us more. Raimi felt MORE than Justified to "update" other characters storyline/characterizations (i.e. Doc Ock/MJ to name a few), so WHY NOT Brock/Venom? Perhaps it was because Venom was forced on him in SM3, or perhaps BECAUSE Venom was forced on him and he decided to show them (they want Venom.. here you go, Venom Lite and HEY.. I'll kill him too. That will show them!) Not to mention it left the franchise painted into a proverbial corner for the most part with no place to really take the story next, which ultimately cost Raimi his job.

A more epic arrival/birth of the symbiote than the highly coincidental "stealth meteror" delivery on the symbiote we got, which JUST HAPPENDED to conincide with Peter and MJ being in the exact same spot. And I know that yes (Virginia there is a Big Bad Wolf ) that comics rely on coincidence HEAVILY. But AGAIN, that does not excuse the sloppiness and unispired approach that Raimi and Co used. I would of MUCH prefered that take the approach of the Shuttle bringing the symbiote back to earth in an averted landing like the animated cartoon did. That would of been much more epic/entertaining, as well as not having been so coincidental for Peter to "obtain" the symbiote.

A more "wow" it's a sentient being from another world approach to the symbiote, while bring Connors character (IF he were a Biologist SHEESHHH RAIMI... GET A DMAN CLUE) into the mix more, which could of set up future storylines with Lizard/Connors learning from the symbiote sample he took. Exploring more IN DEPTH, the symbiotes effects on Peter, as opposed to SM3 approach basically of "WOO HOOO", this feels Grrrreeeat.

A Venom that a) knew Peter's secret identify and used it to torture Peter by threatening the ones he loved b) could evade Spider-Man's greatest weapon/defense (his Spider-Sense) c) a Venom that was stronger/faster/stronger webbing/etc. that Spider-Man/Peter, where Peter gets defeated by Venom, but not killed (yet) becuse Brock/Venom is enjoying torturing him too much. Basically again... A FLESHED OUT Brock/Venom as opposed to the one trick special we got. But heck, in SM3 Spider-Sense was a moot point anyway, a real pity considering that was the big deal with Venom, he knew Spider-Man's identify and could evade his spider-sense... a deadly combo.

Yeah, WHY would we want to see that???

 

[TheSlag]

It's inherent only in the roots of the genre. Comic books have long surpassed the era of catering to kids as their main demographic. A more apt description of the medium is that it is aimed towards the teen-adult crowd, while still being accessible to the youth.

The idea that it's still "kid's stuff" is damaging to the progressive movement of the industry and it's acceptance within mainstream. It's beyond false. I don't know how any reader post-80s can even agree with that sentiment. Though within the past decade, it's evident that is clearly changing from the majority perspective. There will still be those that turn their heads away from the notion that comic books are legitimate forms of literature, however. It has nothing to do with being ashamed of the genre, it's about being truthful to what the medium has accomplished within the past half century. The industry and material it provides is far, far, different from what it was in its inception.

Well said. And totally agree.

 

[DACMAN]

This is to whoever said Ultimate Peter sucks because he's too whinney.

 

[chaseter]

The difference is he was asking a question that he could have easily looked up himself. That's lazy. You were dismissing someone because they didn't put a "-" in Spider-Man. That's pretentious.

Spiderman
Bruce Bannor
Bruce Waine
Hulck
Eric Lensher

No thanks.

I don't mind it when you are casually talking about characters or asking a question because you aren't that familiar with their history. But when you start demanding things be done then you should have a grasp on the character and it starts with being able to properly spell their name. Me demanding that Nolan fire Bale and get someone new for Bruce Waine is laughable.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Can children even get into comics? Marvel and DC are so convoluted in continuity.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah, why would we want to have seen:

A more fleshed out character than the very one dimensional, unjustified emotionaly motived Brock we got? Why not flesh out the character and make him darker/richer than the one trick pony (yes straight out of other media I am sure) we got. There have been bad personification of characters from comics and other mediums in the past, but I still expect a world class director to give us more. Raimi felt MORE than Justified to "update" other characters storyline/characterizations (i.e. Doc Ock/MJ to name a few), so WHY NOT Brock/Venom? Perhaps it was because Venom was forced on him in SM3, or perhaps BECAUSE Venom was forced on him and he decided to show them (they want Venom.. here you go, Venom Lite and HEY.. I'll kill him too. That will show them!) Not to mention it left the franchise painted into a proverbial corner for the most part with no place to really take the story next, which ultimately cost Raimi his job.

A more epic arrival/birth of the symbiote than the highly coincidental "stealth meteror" delivery on the symbiote we got, which JUST HAPPENDED to conincide with Peter and MJ being in the exact same spot. And I know that yes (Virginia there is a Big Bad Wolf ) that comics rely on coincidence HEAVILY. But AGAIN, that does not excuse the sloppiness and unispired approach that Raimi and Co used. I would of MUCH prefered that take the approach of the Shuttle bringing the symbiote back to earth in an averted landing like the animated cartoon did. That would of been much more epic/entertaining, as well as not having been so coincidental for Peter to "obtain" the symbiote.

A more "wow" it's a sentient being from another world approach to the symbiote, while bring Connors character (IF he were a Biologist SHEESHHH RAIMI... GET A DMAN CLUE) into the mix more, which could of set up future storylines with Lizard/Connors learning from the symbiote sample he took. Exploring more IN DEPTH, the symbiotes effects on Peter, as opposed to SM3 approach basically of "WOO HOOO", this feels Grrrreeeat.

A Venom that a) knew Peter's secret identify and used it to torture Peter by threatening the ones he loved b) could evade Spider-Man's greatest weapon/defense (his Spider-Sense) c) a Venom that was stronger/faster/stronger webbing/etc. that Spider-Man/Peter, where Peter gets defeated by Venom, but not killed (yet) becuse Brock/Venom is enjoying torturing him too much. Basically again... A FLESHED OUT Brock/Venom as opposed to the one trick special we got. But heck, in SM3 Spider-Sense was a moot point anyway, a real pity considering that was the big deal with Venom, he knew Spider-Man's identify and could evade his spider-sense... a deadly combo.

Yeah, WHY would we want to see that???

I do agree the origin of the symbiote in SM3 was incredibly weak and lazy. I they wanted an easy explanation that didn't require a ton of money to do like a crashing shuttle would have, then they should have had the symbiote meteor land somewhere else, Oscorp scientists capture it, study it, maybe Peter visits Harry (where the symbiote can read how powerful Peter is), and then later escapes and latches onto Peter. Would have made the symbiote more of a character, not been lazy, and been cheaper than a crashing shuttle. Heck, Harry could have been cured of the Goblin formula by this point, so it wouldn't detract from the story or require many additional scenes.(and Peter's inner darkness would have been growing by this time).

 

[TheSlag]

I do agree the origin of the symbiote in SM3 was incredibly weak and lazy. I they wanted an easy explanation that didn't require a ton of money to do like a crashing shuttle would have, then they should have had the symbiote meteor land somewhere else, Oscorp scientists capture it, study it, maybe Peter visits Harry (where the symbiote can read how powerful Peter is), and then later escapes and latches onto Peter. Would have made the symbiote more of a character, not been lazy, and been cheaper than a crashing shuttle. Heck, Harry could have been cured of the Goblin formula by this point, so it wouldn't detract from the story or require many additional scenes.(and Peter's inner darkness would have been growing by this time).

Exactly. There were "many" different approaches that would of been better for bringing the symbiote to Peter. It just smacks of lazy film making to me with the approach they took.

And I agree, I am sure that $$$$ was a major factor, if not the major factor in why we did not see the Shuttle crash.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Comics appeal to the younger generation. Batman 1989 was designed more for adults than kids,and that changed how even comics were perceived by adults.

Not really. A great many adults at the time believed that comics were still kiddie fare, the TV show was an accurate depiction of Batman and the movies just took liberties to make it look more serious.