Batman Begins Those who disliked Begins - Why?

Sandman138 said:
Finally, for a film about Batman BEGINNING, there's not much of a learning curve. As Millennium Movies pointed out, he doesn't get his but kicked, and while every fan complaint about Batman doing something out of character is explained away as it being his first year, the film never shows a progression of mistake and consequence. The closest it comes to this is either Alfred chastising Bruce for reckless driving, or getting lit on fire. In the first case there is some drama in Alfred's frustration, but it's not much of a consequence, in the second, he's leaping out into the rain about two seconds later and it's more or less over. Both of these events are where the film gets really interesting and they're over before they can really begin. They go by so fast it feels like you blink and you miss it. It's fun to see Batman beat up some goons, but it's more fun to see him actually challenged. I didn't see enough of that in this film.
.

accidentally blowing up an entire monastary trying to escape.

nearly getting caught on the roof of the gpd and then almost falling to his death which leads him to develop his cape/glider.

getting lit on fire, falling off a building and spending 2 days unconscious.

while trying to rescue rachael gets trapped in a building surrounded by a swat force which leads him to recklessly escape in a dangerous and possibly harmful chase. then getting *****ed out by his father figure butler. and in his distraction lets the league of shadows slip into his home, knock him out and burn his priceless estate to the ground. thats apretty big consequence, no?

fails trying to stop ras from loading the emitter on the train, falls again and nearly gets mobbed by hallucinating crowd. then fails to stop the train when ras nearly beats his ass causing him to resort to blowing up massive amounts of public property. more consequences.

all the while failing to capture one league member or one escaped lunatic including scarecrow.

did any miss any asskickings or rookie failures?

it seems to me he spent most of the movie making mistakes and misteps and readjusting his methods.
 
deathfromabove said:
accidentally blowing up an entire monastary trying to escape.

Accidentally? They made that seem pretty diliberate to me.

nearly getting caught on the roof of the gpd and then almost falling to his death which leads him to develop his cape/glider.

This came off as more of a plot device to me than a real challenge, but I'll give it to you, let's get to the next one to talk about what bothered me about both of these moments.

getting lit on fire, falling off a building and spending 2 days unconscious.

Like I said, one of the moments where the movie started getting interesting. However, it lasts a minute at most. He gets lit on fire, jumps out into the rain, gets to the building... and then it's two days later and life goes on as if nothing has happened. He jokes around with Fox even though he's just found out that he was incapacitated for two days. Further more, even though he's been passed out for two days, the movie's pace never gives you any impression that time really passed. It's made out to be no big deal. In the same way, Bruce nearly falling to his death is never shown to be a moment where death was really palpable, it just kind of happens and then is done and we get a scene with him in high spirits getting a cape from Fox. They don't phase him, and as such, they don't phase me as an audience member.

while trying to rescue rachael gets trapped in a building surrounded by a swat force which leads him to recklessly escape in a dangerous and possibly harmful chase. then getting *****ed out by his father figure butler.

I believe I mentioned this one as well. I loved Alfred's response to what he did. Again, it's one of the best parts of the movie for me. But in terms of a consequence, it feels far more like chastising a drunk driver for what could have happened. If you have ever done such a thing, you know what happens: they go out driving drunk again, because even though things could happen, they don't think it will happen to them. I would have been more satisfied if he had actually hurt somebody, and then had to deal with the guilt of really screwing up instead of getting away with something reckless.

and in his distraction lets the league of shadows slip into his home, knock him out and burn his priceless estate to the ground. thats apretty big consequence, no?

They never connected him being distracted to the league getting into his house, but for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. This is a good scene with him under the log, and for the first time really facing death and a problem he can't get himself out of. But his connection to the house was such a side point, that when it suddenly becomes front and center and he changes his mind and realizes he's destroyed his father's memory it felt out of place. And while Alfred channeling his father was a nice sentiment, I didn't believe that it would have been enough to bring Bruce back to his feet.

fails trying to stop ras from loading the emitter on the train, falls again and nearly gets mobbed by hallucinating crowd. then fails to stop the train when ras nearly beats his ass causing him to resort to blowing up massive amounts of public property. more consequences.

Yet once again, they don't phase him. After he's done with Ra's the next scene is him joking about the papers report of him burning down his house

all the while failing to capture one league member or one escaped lunatic including scarecrow.

"We will." He doesn't seemed too concerned about it.

did any miss any asskickings or rookie failures?

it seems to me he spent most of the movie making mistakes and misteps and readjusting his methods.

It's not that missed them, it's that I didn't see them get enough focus, and I didn't see them effect the main character in an important way.
 
Sandman138 said:
It's not that missed them, it's that I didn't see them get enough focus, and I didn't see them effect the main character in an important way.

Frankly, what was shown was enough for a Year One film. Already the film tried to do too much in too little time, I'm surprised it even had those moments to begin with. And no, I didn't want to see any more focus on it than it had already, nor do I think it is necessary.
 
Yowza it takes you guys so long to see all this stuff that wasn't the best it could be about this film?

LOL.

I'll go watch some BTAS now.
 
From what I've read in some people's posts, they don't like Begins because Burton or Keaton weren't involved, kind of like the way some fans don't like "The Batman" cartoon because it's not BTAS.


BTW, just so's ya know, this is not a Burton/Keaton bash.
 
Bathead said:
From what I've read in some people's posts, they don't like Begins because Burton or Keaton weren't involved, kind of like the way some fans don't like "The Batman" cartoon because it's not BTAS.


BTW, just so's ya know, this is not a Burton/Keaton bash.
I think Batman Begins is the best comic movie. I did not really care much for Burtons at all.


I don't like The Batman because it is far to cheesy and they just went completely for the kids instead of something that might be watch able for some one older than 9.
 
Sandman138 said:
Like I said, one of the moments where the movie started getting interesting. However, it lasts a minute at most. He gets lit on fire, jumps out into the rain, gets to the building... and then it's two days later and life goes on as if nothing has happened. He jokes around with Fox even though he's just found out that he was incapacitated for two days. Further more, even though he's been passed out for two days, the movie's pace never gives you any impression that time really passed. It's made out to be no big deal. In the same way, Bruce nearly falling to his death is never shown to be a moment where death was really palpable, it just kind of happens and then is done and we get a scene with him in high spirits getting a cape from Fox. They don't phase him, and as such, they don't phase me as an audience member..


first of all when fox shows up after bruce is gassed he is clearly trying to play up the dumb playboy act. and the day after he jumps from the gpd he should sit around and mope instead of finding a solution to his problem?
this is batman and he is a very driven and focused character.



Sandman138 said:
I believe I mentioned this one as well. I loved Alfred's response to what he did. Again, it's one of the best parts of the movie for me. But in terms of a consequence, it feels far more like chastising a drunk driver for what could have happened. If you have ever done such a thing, you know what happens: they go out driving drunk again, because even though things could happen, they don't think it will happen to them. I would have been more satisfied if he had actually hurt somebody, and then had to deal with the guilt of really screwing up instead of getting away with something reckless..


yeah having bats run down and kill a pedestrian would be really heroic and would have really helped the plot along.



Sandman138 said:
They never connected him being distracted to the league getting into his house, but for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. This is a good scene with him under the log, and for the first time really facing death and a problem he can't get himself out of. But his connection to the house was such a side point, that when it suddenly becomes front and center and he changes his mind and realizes he's destroyed his father's memory it felt out of place. And while Alfred channeling his father was a nice sentiment, I didn't believe that it would have been enough to bring Bruce back to his feet..


his connection to his house and his legacy was touched on multiple times in the movie. and again would bruce just give up and mope because his house was on fire? i mean he was crying until alfred reminded him of his fathers words. what more did you want to see?



Sandman138 said:
Yet once again, they don't phase him. After he's done with Ra's the next scene is him joking about the papers report of him burning down his house .


again bruce wayne/batman is a superhero. he is very driven and is on a mission. driven and focused people dont tend to get all emo when things dont go as planned. i think it is unlikely that much would slow him down for very long.



Sandman138 said:
"We will." He doesn't seemed too concerned about it..


he's batman. should he reply: "****, your right gordon we are really screwed. i dont know how we are ever going to fix this!" ?? he came back to gotham to be an positive example and to "shake people from their apathy" not be apathetic himself.


Sandman138 said:
It's not that missed them, it's that I didn't see them get enough focus, and I didn't see them effect the main character in an important way.

it seems to me you wanted every setback to put bruce/bats into some kind of depressed emotional state. im sorry, thats just not batman to me. he channels his anger, sadness, and selfdoubt into action. he doesnt let these things slow him down. he doest sit around and mope and ponder his existence and the meaning of life and death to a degree that hinders his ability to act.
i think im beginning to understand your screen name.
remember we are talking about BATMAN. :batty:
not SANDMAN.
 
deathfromabove said:
i think im beginning to understand your screen name.
remember we are talking about BATMAN. :batty:
not SANDMAN.
lol nice catch.
 
Wesyeed said:
Yowza it takes you guys so long to see all this stuff that wasn't the best it could be about this film?

LOL.

I'll go watch some BTAS now.
I see in flaws in B:TAS, too. :(
 
I see flaws in your post. :(

Anyway WOW, batman just kicked the Joker's ass. Sweet.
 
Wesyeed said:
I see flaws in your post. :(
You're right. Sorry about the grammar!

"I see flaws in B:TAS, too. :("

Now, it's alright. :up:
 
I don't like The Batman because it is far to cheesy and they just went completely for the kids instead of something that might be watch able for some one older than 9.

What'd you expect though?

Didn't BTAS end up doing that too at it's end?

Finally, for a film about Batman BEGINNING, there's not much of a learning curve. As Millennium Movies pointed out, he doesn't get his but kicked, and while every fan complaint about Batman doing something out of character is explained away as it being his first year, the film never shows a progression of mistake and consequence. The closest it comes to this is either Alfred chastising Bruce for reckless driving, or getting lit on fire. In the first case there is some drama in Alfred's frustration, but it's not much of a consequence, in the second, he's leaping out into the rain about two seconds later and it's more or less over. Both of these events are where the film gets really interesting and they're over before they can really begin. They go by so fast it feels like you blink and you miss it. It's fun to see Batman beat up some goons, but it's more fun to see him actually challenged. I didn't see enough of that in this film.

wow......this is just......wow......did you watch the movie?


It doesn't matter if you call his parent's killer "Jack Napier" or "Joe Chill."

Wow.....just.......****ing wow....I mean.....are you ****ing kidding me??? Seriously.....are you mother****ing kidding me??

 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
What'd you expect though?

Didn't BTAS end up doing that too at it's end?



wow......this is just......wow......did you watch the movie?




Wow.....just.......****ing wow....I mean.....are you ****ing kidding me??? Seriously.....are you mother****ing kidding me??


Actually BTAS in it's last year was very good it was no where near the cheesy level of The Batman is. The Batman is getting better this year so far.
 
Well, no.....but, there were shades of the WB regime falling down on it I felt....making it watered down.

The Batman is a kid's show. It doesn't really care about the fans.....just about the kids.

But, yeah....it's gotten better. Looks like they've changed Batman's chin too.
 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
Well, no.....but, there were shades of the WB regime falling down on it I felt....making it watered down.

The Batman is a kid's show. It doesn't really care about the fans.....just about the kids.

But, yeah....it's gotten better. Looks like they've changed Batman's chin too.
I know it's a kids show that's why I am complaining about it lol.

I am excited about this year I heard that Black Mask is going to make it to the cast I just hope they don't ruin him like they did with Bain in the last episode he was way to easy to beat. I was excited to hear that Harley was going to be in it but then I saw a picture of what she would look like and may I just say Yikes
 
I tell you what.....the only really bad I've seen is the Joker, I think he just looks horrible.

Other than him, the others aren't so bad. I do get bothered by the lack of gravity and real physics...but meh.

It's better than what Superman (or...Superboy..?) has gotten for a cartoon....
 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
I tell you what.....the only really bad I've seen is the Joker, I think he just looks horrible.

Other than him, the others aren't so bad. I do get bothered by the lack of gravity and real physics...but meh.

It's better than what Superman (or...Superboy..?) has gotten for a cartoon....


I don't like the Joker, The riddler and I don't like the new harley model that I have seen. Also Robin looks a bit off it looks more like a Tim Drake Robin.

I didn't like that they did the whole Robin story in one episode when that horrible Batgirl begins was a two parter lol.
 
I like Riddler. He looks tougher, and creepier....as opposed to simply looking queer (as Dick Grayson would say).

Robin himself looks alot like Tim Sale's version...so I like it.
 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
I like Riddler. He looks tougher, and creepier....as opposed to simply looking queer (as Dick Grayson would say).

Robin himself looks alot like Tim Sale's version...so I like it.
I never thought Riddler looked queer before but in The Batman I think he screams queer lol.

To each his own I thinkthey could of tried to make both Robin and Riddler look a little bit more masculine and Robin and Batgirl should both be bumped up a little in age they look like they are 8 years old
 
Carrey's Riddler was something of a queer I think. Lipstick, fancy tights, that hair and of course he was in love with Bruce.

But it's a Schumacher movie.
 
carrey4uf.jpg
 
El Payaso said:
Carrey's Riddler was something of a queer I think. Lipstick, fancy tights, that hair and of course he was in love with Bruce.

But it's a Schumacher movie.
Good point I was trying so very hard to forget him
 
I never thought Riddler looked queer before but in The Batman I think he screams queer lol.

To each his own I thinkthey could of tried to make both Robin and Riddler look a little bit more masculine and Robin and Batgirl should both be bumped up a little in age they look like they are 8 years old

C'mon.....when BTAS shaved his head, gave him no eyebrows and made it look like he was wearing eye shadow....you didn't think "queer" even for a second?

Plus....the Riddler has always been kinda fruity, but....whatever.

He still gives off that vibe in THE BATMAN, but....more like Marilyn Manson instead.

I think them looking like 8 year olds is on purpose. Connection for the kids watching and all.

But, if I had my way....there'd be a strict NO SIDEKICK rule on everything Batman.
 

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