Batman Begins Those who disliked Begins - Why?

[Rexi]

How is Bruce exactly trying to save Gotham when he refuses to kill the guy? From what I remember it seemed like Bruce was trying to haul ass.

And he didn't seem all that concerned about helping anyone, except Ducard while he was escaping.

I think it is a valid criticism. There was no other way to escape without starting a fire? And then there is no remorse or anything from Bruce about the inadvertent death and destruction he caused?

I really doubt that NINJAS couldnt escape the house. i mean it's not like there were senior citizens in there. the only death i saw was watanabe, an accident that bruce had no control over. then he saved ra's. watch an episode of B:TAS or read a comic, batman doesnt care about destroying anithing only human life. that's why i didnt like the scene at the end on the train.

 

[DarKush]

I really doubt that NINJAS couldnt escape the house. i mean it's not like there were senior citizens in there. the only death i saw was watanabe, an accident that bruce had no control over. then he saved ra's. watch an episode of B:TAS or read a comic, batman doesnt care about destroying anithing only human life. that's why i didnt like the scene at the end on the train.

Fair enough about the ninjas part, but Bruce Wayne wasn't Batman at the time either remember. That came about half way into the film.

And there have been some comics where he has questioned himself or a decision that he made before. That's when he's Batman, so I'm assuming that he might be even more conscious of his actions while in the formation stage, questioning whether he's doing the right thing, or if this is the best way to avenge his parents and serve Gotham.

Batman has also been shown to be something of a perfectionist. He likes things to go smoothly, so I could also see him being a little anal when they don't.

 

[XCharlieX]

There are 3 types that i know who wont like this film:

Comic purists.

Those fond of more action than character time ratio

Elitist snobs who never give any type of scifi/fiction film of this sort credit.

 

[Galactical]

Kill them

 

[Mauser9910]

There are 3 types that i know who wont like this film:

Comic purists.

Those fond of more action than character time ratio

Elitist snobs who never give any type of scifi/fiction film of this sort credit.

And who love the film so much ? Delusionnal Batfans too happy their fav character got treated "seriously" (yet way imperfectly) ?

 

[rnewbz]

Wait how are fedoras key to noir films? I mean sure I like fedoras just as much as the next guy, but really it didn't affect batman begins as noir at all. Oh, and Blade Runner and Sin City are both noir films and they don't contain fedoras...just a heads up.

 

[Galactical]

Oh yeah sure. 40 yearold virgin has no fedora but I still consider it noir in some aspects too. Sin City I'm not sure about. I think someone wore a fedora in that, but it's definitely dealing with a lot of noir themes and such. Blade runner i consider very noir too, but a sci-fi sort of noir I guess. In my mind it's all about style..., and sometimes the all the problems the protagonist has but, overall It's that distinct noir style that i love. You'll see some noir style in pee wee's big adventure, back to the future, ninja turtles, matrix, robocop, a lot of movies.

A lot of movies.

The fedora is the key to my favorite kind of noir , the old school style, without it it's not 100% noir to me. I think it'd have been really great if Nolan payed homage to batman's roots stylistically in that way. Ledger would look great in a fedora.

 

[casketmouth]

I liked Begins, but I don't think it was the greatest comic book movie ever, like some people do.

For one, it was a little slow in the beginning, bordering on glacial. I thought the Bat-suit should've been more streamlined.

I thought it was a little ironic that Bruce didn't want to take a life, but when he caused a fire that killed at least several people.

I didn't care for Begins take on the death of Bruce Wayne's parents. It just didn't flow right for me. Tim Burton got it better, even if Nolan's depiction fits more with the comic.

Rachel Dawes was a waste of space. Should've made her Rachel Caspian-daughter of the Reaper as a nod to Batman: Year Two, or Talia al Ghul.

Overall I liked the darker tone. But last summer I enjoyed Fantastic Four more. It whizzed alone, while Batman Begins moped a little.

Yeah because you're a kid. of course you'd love the childish movie over the more mature, substance filled ones

 

[casketmouth]

I really doubt that NINJAS couldnt escape the house. i mean it's not like there were senior citizens in there. the only death i saw was watanabe, an accident that bruce had no control over. then he saved ra's. watch an episode of B:TAS or read a comic, batman doesnt care about destroying anithing only human life. that's why i didnt like the scene at the end on the train.

I loved that scene cause it this guy had gone over board in trying to destroy the city and so this more realistic version of Batman would not go all outn to save another life before he saves his. There is no way both of them could have gotten off. ra's left bruce to die and burned down his families legacy.

I think this time we gotta cut Bruce some slack. Hell, I would have KILLED ra's.

He did it perfectly and anded it well enough.

I like the fact that this batman isn't stupid. He doesn't just capture you and take you to court and all that crap. ra's was too big of a menace to allow him to have a revenge scheme for a second time. Batman is meant to be smart and regarding human life is his thing right? then do you know how many lives he saved when he stopped and maybe killed some of those Ninjas? or when he let Ra's "die" on the train. for the better cause he did the right things. He didn't MURDER anyone infact. Everyone was mostly un preventable.

 

[XCharlieX]

And who love the film so much ? Delusionnal Batfans too happy their fav character got treated "seriously" (yet way imperfectly) ?

Er wow...lol

More like folks who were happy that the director took the material seriously and made an engaging and interesting story with fantastic cast and acting. Its cinematic perfection that didnt listen to the comics completely, and for this some will hate it. There are times where "you cant win either way" rings true. I feel if there was any film this is where it applies.

As for scarecrow... i dont know who would say that scarecrow shouldve been the main villain as opposed to the social themes presented by picking Ras Al Ghul that made it the smart film that it was. Scarecrow freaking folks out with monster faces for the entire film is boring and shallow in comparison imo. I enjoy how he was simply used as a way to bring out Bruce Waynes past flashbacks.

 

[rnewbz]

Oh yeah sure. 40 yearold virgin has no fedora but I still consider it noir in some aspects too. Sin City I'm not sure about. I think someone wore a fedora in that, but it's definitely dealing with a lot of noir themes and such. Blade runner i consider very noir too, but a sci-fi sort of noir I guess. In my mind it's all about style..., and sometimes the all the problems the protagonist has but, overall It's that distinct noir style that i love. You'll see some noir style in pee wee's big adventure, back to the future, ninja turtles, matrix, robocop, a lot of movies.

A lot of movies.

The fedora is the key to my favorite kind of noir , the old school style, without it it's not 100% noir to me. I think it'd have been really great if Nolan payed homage to batman's roots stylistically in that way. Ledger would look great in a fedora.

Yeah, I would love to see Joker in a Fedora. If Roman Sionis(black mask) is in it then he has to have a fedora, no way around it.

 

[XCharlieX]

Let's see.

The action scenes very VERY bad and badly filmed (it's clearly Nolan's weakness).

That was on purpose and is by no means a weakness. The idea was super realism style. Watch a real streetfight. Its chaotic and super fast. That style had to be the least identifiable as choreographed ive seen.

It just seems like creative decisions from a realistic perspective is lost on you for the most part.

 

[DarKush]

Yeah because you're a kid. of course you'd love the childish movie over the more mature, substance filled ones

I think almost all of us are kids at heart when we view these movies. I became a fan of Batman when I was a kid, primarily on the Superfriends cartoon but majorly through the Adam West show.

So yes I want to be thrilled and have a good time. I don't mind a little surrealness when watching a comic book film. I don't look for the answers to life in these films, or expect to see great soul searching drama either.

Batman is based off of a guy dressed like a Bat for goodness sakes, who has a tendency to name his gadgets 'bat' this and 'bat' that. I applaud Begins for not going over the edge like the Schumacher films did, but I liked Burton's vision of Gotham city and the colors, etc. that he used to mix comics with the real world.

When I left out of the theater after watching FF, there was a little kid running around in circles saying "Flame On," and I didn't see that type of enthusiasm when I left Begins or Superman Returns for that matter.

 

[El Payaso]

I loved that scene cause it this guy had gone over board in trying to destroy the city and so this more realistic version of Batman would not go all outn to save another life before he saves his. There is no way both of them could have gotten off. ra's left bruce to die and burned down his families legacy.

...

I like the fact that this batman isn't stupid. He doesn't just capture you and take you to court and all that crap. ra's was too big of a menace to allow him to have a revenge scheme for a second time. Batman is meant to be smart and regarding human life is his thing right? then do you know how many lives he saved when he stopped and maybe killed some of those Ninjas? or when he let Ra's "die" on the train. for the better cause he did the right things. He didn't MURDER anyone infact. Everyone was mostly un preventable.

Isn't this the same that happens in B89?

A guy gone over board in trying to destroy the city and Batman let him die instead taking him to the justice, in order to save innocent people later?

That was on purpose and is by no means a weakness. The idea was super realism style. Watch a real streetfight. Its chaotic and super fast. That style had to be the least identifiable as choreographed ive seen.

It just seems like creative decisions from a realistic perspective is lost on you for the most part.

This is gold. Movie failed aspects are ok if they were made on purpose.

 

[Rexi]

Isn't this the same that happens in B89?

A guy gone over board in trying to destroy the city and Batman let him die instead taking him to the justice, in order to save innocent people later?



This is gold. Movie failed aspects are ok if they were made on purpose.

no in B89 and returns batman deliberately off's street thugs...

if u didnt like the action, that's fine and is your opinion. that doesnt mean they were 'failed'. if you want to see batman do 360 flip kicks and see him dodge bullets watch the matrix. while i understand that it is frustrating to watch and not be able to see everything, nolan wanted to do it realistic. and realistically batman would have to take out thugs one at a time, quickly, using stealth to his advantage.

 

[El Payaso]

no in B89 and returns batman deliberately off's street thugs...

I was clearly talking of B89 only and about the main villiain only.

In B89 Batman was hanging with Vicki off the cathedral and Joker was about to escape. So Batman tied Joker's foot to the gargoyle to prevent the villian to fly away. That is not killing him. Now, when the gargoyle cracked the Joker's was doomed, but that was not Batman action, that was purely fate. Batman had both hands busy not to mention he has to save Vicki Vale.

if u didnt like the action, that's fine and is your opinion. that doesnt mean they were 'failed'. if you want to see batman do 360 flip kicks and see him dodge bullets watch the matrix. while i understand that it is frustrating to watch and not be able to see everything, nolan wanted to do it realistic. and realistically batman would have to take out thugs one at a time, quickly, using stealth to his advantage.

How is a not seeing a thing, realism?
How is Matrix opposed to B Begins edition? (I know you were just trying to make a mocking caricature but still)

 

[Beelze]

Batman is based off of a guy dressed like a Bat for goodness sakes, who has a tendency to name his gadgets 'bat' this and 'bat' that.

Naming things "bat [whatever]" is corny, but I don't see why people use the "he dresses up like a bat" as an argument to support the claim that he is just an unserious character meant only for fun. Sure, if you connect "dresses up like a bat" with "dresses up like Adam West did in the 60's show", I would agree.

 

[XCharlieX]

Thank you Rexi.

Naming things "bat [whatever]" is corny

lol ive been saying that for the longest. Nolan so dodged all of that stuff There is only Batman.

How is a not seeing a thing, realism?

All hell breaks loose and lets see how slow and deliberate you think everything feels. The fast cutting was Nolans translation of this momentum and it spectacularly succeeded as far as im concerned.

In fact one of my acquaintances said he thought the old school batmans fighting was lame in comparison. The editing makes for a lightning quick effect, which is whats needed since this fighting style is the most deadly and rapid on the earth. There are logical and smart reasons as to why Nolan did what he did. Most of us understood instantly.

 

[Anita18]

I become a giggly geeky fangirl over BB, but some people I know just thought it was okay. My good friend (who got me into comics) thought it was a bit too slow in the beginning. My sister thought the same thing. Another friend (a chem major) couldn't suspend the disbelief re: the microwave emitter. I'm a biology major and it made enough sense for me, LOL. Almost every moment of BB was perfect for me, but I could definitely see how some could think it was slow, and the third act and bit too much. I also had my qualms, like how the action was a bit too closeup and the Tumbler's crash into the toll booth (was that REALLY necessary?), but all in all....I'm always riveted when I'm watching.

..my parents were a bit too familiar with B89 and probably were like, "WTF?" when I took them to see BB. But they're like that - they prefer their movies to be a bit more on the fun and mindless side. My mom loves the Bond movies since you know Bond will never die.

 

[XCharlieX]

and the Tumbler's crash into the toll booth (was that REALLY necessary?),

lol that was a "booyah!" moment

 

[7Hells]

If they replaced Dawes with Dent that kiss scene at the end of the movie would have been much more akward

lol, spit my coffee out on that one.
Nice Matt

 

[DarKush]

Naming things "bat [whatever]" is corny, but I don't see why people use the "he dresses up like a bat" as an argument to support the claim that he is just an unserious character meant only for fun. Sure, if you connect "dresses up like a bat" with "dresses up like Adam West did in the 60's show", I would agree.

I didn't say that Batman was an unserious character or only meant for fun. But I would be lying to you if I didn't read Batman or watch the movies or cartoons because I don't consider them fun. Why would I want to delve into Batman if it wasn't fun?

I like the darker Batman from the 70s on, but at the same time I'm not opposed to enjoying or wanting to see more light hearted fare between the darkness so it doesn't get too grim. Even Frank Miller placed the big penny in the Batcave for Dark Knights Returns, a nice allusion to the more fantastical side of Batman.

I'm not talking about the forced, campy humor of the Schumacher films, but more humor derived from the situations or plots Batman might be facing.

 

[Stupify_me]

I had problems with it but nothing is perfect for everybody. I still think it was the greatest comic movie period in fact it's one of my all time favirote movies.

I had problems with it though
I did't care much for the suit it wasn't horrible just not the best
Katie Holmes and her charecter (Useless anyone?)
The biggest problem is the batmobile that was just horrible

still even with those problems it was the best I have seen for a comic movie.

theres a saying

You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time

That is more true about us comic fans that just about any one

 

[Mauser9910]

That was on purpose and is by no means a weakness. The idea was super realism style. Watch a real streetfight. Its chaotic and super fast. That style had to be the least identifiable as choreographed ive seen.

It just seems like creative decisions from a realistic perspective is lost on you for the most part.

Like El P. said, it failed if it was the intention. Over-editing is just piss poor movie grammar, Michael Bay worth.
Realistic street fighting was seen in Blade, it was fast and powerful, never messy (in the bad sense of the term) like in BB.

The tone of the film was -finally- more serious, big deal if it suffices the Bat-fans, it still a film with many MANY flaws.

 

[XCharlieX]

Like El P. said, it failed if it was the intention.

And like Rexi said:

if u didnt like the action, that's fine and is your opinion. that doesnt mean they were 'failed'.