Batman Begins Those who disliked Begins - Why?

[Mauser9910]

When you can't figure out what's going on, it fails as a moment on film, duh !

 

[XCharlieX]

You're like the only person who didn't like the first half. the general consensus is that the first half is what makes the movie and it's twice as good as the second half. Different strokes I guess.

I find the second half to be as good as the first. Some found it over the top. I do wonder about the folks who cant believe that someone can think an apocalypse will solve the problems. People think this everyday.

 

["V"]

Oh yeah sure. 40 yearold virgin has no fedora but I still consider it noir in some aspects too. Sin City I'm not sure about. I think someone wore a fedora in that, but it's definitely dealing with a lot of noir themes and such. Blade runner i consider very noir too, but a sci-fi sort of noir I guess. In my mind it's all about style..., and sometimes the all the problems the protagonist has but, overall It's that distinct noir style that i love. You'll see some noir style in pee wee's big adventure, back to the future, ninja turtles, matrix, robocop, a lot of movies.

The fedora is the key to my favorite kind of noir , the old school style, without it it's not 100% noir to me. I think it'd have been really great if Nolan payed homage to batman's roots stylistically in that way. Ledger would look great in a fedora.

Indiana Jones - The pinnacle of film noir, right?

 

[Stupify_me]

Like El P. said, it failed if it was the intention. Over-editing is just piss poor movie grammar, Michael Bay worth.
Realistic street fighting was seen in Blade, it was fast and powerful, never messy (in the bad sense of the term) like in BB.

The tone of the film was -finally- more serious, big deal if it suffices the Bat-fans, it still a film with many MANY flaws.

Not really, You may not of liked it but there wary not Many Many flaws.

 

[7Hells]

Indiana Jones - The pinnacle of film noir, right?

lol

 

[Texas Zombie]

Some of you liked the old batman movies. Lame. Holly molly batman. Gay. Begins gave it a real feel ,even being a fictional character.

 

[Mauser9910]

Not really, You may not of liked it but there wary not Many Many flaws.

Directing/Editing, Scenario, Acting... That qualifies already as "many".

 

[Stupify_me]

Directing/Editing, Scenario, Acting... That qualifies already as "many".

I don't see how they are flawed at all I thought they used some of the best actors there are and they did an amazing job. Oh and the directing was great Nolan did an amazing job.

I just don't see any flaws I guess I missed the scene where the mic fell and hit batman on the head because that would be a flaw. Just because I didn't like spiderman 2 does not mean it was very flawed it just means I didn't like it just wasn't my cup of tea. A flaw is a out of place scene or a messed up line, a mic hitting someone , the sound cutting out, Batman sneezing and they forgot to edit it out.

 

[Stupify_me]

Some of you liked the old batman movies. Lame. Holly molly batman. Gay. Begins gave it a real feel ,even being a fictional character.

I kind of liked batman forever because of one simple line exchange

"Holly Rusted Metal Batman"

"What?"

"The Metal it's holly and rusted"

"Oh"

I loved that I saw it as makeing fun of the old batman series which I hated.

 

[Mauser9910]

I don't see how they are flawed at all I thought they used some of the best actors there are and they did an amazing job. Oh and the directing was great Nolan did an amazing job.

I just don't see any flaws I guess I missed the scene where the mic fell and hit batman on the head because that would be a flaw. Just because I didn't like spiderman 2 does not mean it was very flawed it just means I didn't like it just wasn't my cup of tea. A flaw is a out of place scene or a messed up line, a mic hitting someone , the sound cutting out, Batman sneezing and they forgot to edit it out.

A super-hero live action made this day and age NOT having exciting action is a major flaw (and it's been repeated on Superman Returns btw). Not only a flaw to the viewers but also in respect to the original material : either you're able to adapt visually a comic-book or you're not. And it can't be simply respecting just a look, a feeling or a tone, if there's some action going on, it has to deliver on screen as well.

Over-editing is a major flaw (if it's not for Michale Bayesque MTV edit crazyness, it mostly happens to cover the absence of good continuous shots).

Too many villains around a weak plot is a major flaw as well. Carmine Falcone was a casting error (Tom Wilkinson, the real Italian type) and pointless, Rutger Hauer pretty pointless as well ; Scarecrow sacrified (despite an excellent Cillian Murphy AND the constant mention of fear this and fear that... He was the only villain needed in the film.)
Ra's : complete mess of a plot/character/plan

You can find flaws actually in every character, in their adaptation, portrayal, role inside the film... But I'm not one to rant or list or reply point by point to posts (God knows I lost my juice back then during the WMD/Iraq debates going on on the net lol ).

I'll just say that a flaw in a film is more than a blunder ; it's obviously the opposite of a "quality" : such things you can analyze objectively (the motto all critics should follow) aside your preferences in comic-book companies, for example.

 

[Mauser9910]

I kind of liked batman forever because of one simple line exchange

"Holly Rusted Metal Batman"

"What?"

"The Metal it's holly and rusted"

"Oh"

I loved that I saw it as makeing fun of the old batman series which I hated.

It was a nice wink ; ideally the perfect Bat-film would be the best stuff from BF & BB combined.

 

[Stupify_me]

A super-hero live action made this day and age NOT having exciting action is a major flaw (and it's been repeated on Superman Returns btw). Not only a flaw to the viewers but also in respect to the original material : either you're able to adapt visually a comic-book or you're not. And it can't be simply respecting just a look, a feeling or a tone, if there's some action going on, it has to deliver on screen as well.

Over-editing is a major flaw (if it's not for Michale Bayesque MTV edit crazyness, it mostly happens to cover the absence of good continuous shots).

Too many villains around a weak plot is a major flaw as well. Carmine Falcone was a casting error (Tom Wilkinson, the real Italian type) and pointless, Rutger Hauer pretty pointless as well ; Scarecrow sacrified (despite an excellent Cillian Murphy AND the constant mention of fear this and fear that... He was the only villain needed in the film.)
Ra's : complete mess of a plot/character/plan

You can find flaws actually in every character, in their adaptation, portrayal, role inside the film... But I'm not one to rant or list or reply point by point to posts (God knows I lost my juice back then during the WMD/Iraq debates going on on the net lol ).

I'll just say that a flaw in a film is more than a blunder ; it's obviously the opposite of a "quality" : such things you can analyze objectively (the motto all critics should follow) aside your preferences in comic-book companies, for example.

Wow I couldn't possibly disagree with this whole statment anymore. I don't want a movie to transfer from the comic I want a differant vision of the comics it would be so boring to see the exact same thing just live action. I thought the plot and story and all the charecters (excluding Racheal) Were great. OH well this is useless you just refuse to like the movie it's sad but oh well. OH and Begins didn't faill like superman returns did so no worries there and part two will most likely do even better.

 

[Mauser9910]

"Refusing" to like BB. Good one there lol.

PS : I wasn't talking box-office when mentionning SR, only the similarity in flunking the action .

 

[Galactical]

Indiana Jones - The pinnacle of film noir, right?

no though the fedora is a key element, other factors to make it noir are absent.

 

[Stupify_me]

"Refusing" to like BB. Good one there lol.

PS : I wasn't talking box-office when mentionning SR, only the similarity in flunking the action .

Well you just basically explaind why you didn't like BB you are an action fan. I personaly prfer substance I could of still been happy if there were no fights at all I want a good story. I dont care how many punches are thrown how many explosions there are or how good the special effects are I want a good story.

 

[Mauser9910]

But read my posts again and you'll see I found many characters, pointless, shallow or underused inside a very bad plot.
As I said, action was only one of the MANY flaws I find in BB.

 

[Stupify_me]

But read my posts again and you'll see I found many characters, pointless, shallow or underused inside a very bad plot.
As I said, action was only one of the MANY flaws I find in BB.

As I have said before I didn't see any of the same things you saw. I thought the charecters were used just enough and a great plot oh well we simply won't be able to agree on this so it is pretty useless to continue this we just don't like the same movies.

 

[Mauser9910]

But you know, it's just answering honestly a question, debating and flaming won't change the opinion of those who loved it or mine.

Beautiful illustration of Post #20

 

[Eros]

I liked Batman begins, but the fights were badly shot [were they even fights]. Razz plans didn't make much sense [as well as that microwave immitor]. Bruce Wayne vanishes for 7 years, then he comes back and nobody even wonders where he was? The Wayne tech builders that made the Tumbler, they are gonna know whoever Batman is, has access to Wayne technology. Bruce nearly killed numerous police officers on his way to save Rachel, and he seemed to enjoy it almost to much. everything else was great, but they need to work on alot of things for the sequel.

 

[mcflytrap]

I liked BB. For the most part is awesome and put some great standards for new superhero movies to come. Even so, I have like 3 big problems.

- The edition. That eventually doesn't ruin just the action but the finale. First time I saw BB I was just tired of it and the explosions. Felt like BB started magnificent and ended as an average action flick with bad edition.
- Katie Holmes. Amongst such acting monsters as Freeman, Caine and Bale, Holmes ends being the black spot.
- Scarecrow. Muprhy wasn't scary or interesting. He barely ilustrated what's "being scary", like opening your eyes, talking low and affeminate and stretching words: theeeee bbbaaaaattttttmmmmaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn. Not to mention the way he's defeated by a girl with a common self-defense device and ends screaming like a school girl.

Other than that BB deserves positive comments.

Edition?? You mean editing?

 

[Mauser9910]

Speaking about the editing, I must add that not only it was too fast and not furious enough for the fights but it was also confusing in the whole first part, I kept wondering if some bits were flash-backs or not (no difference between the pre and post China moments).

 

[Stupify_me]

Speaking about the editing, I must add that not only it was too fast and not furious enough for the fights but it was also confusing in the whole first part, I kept wondering if some bits were flash-backs or not (no difference between the pre and post China moments).

Are you serious ? I thought the flashbacks were very obvious. What were you expecting the weird little noise and the screen to go fuzzy for a second to show you it is a flashback.

 

[XCharlieX]

The Wayne tech builders that made the Tumbler, they are gonna know whoever Batman is, has access to Wayne technology.

Ok same complaint as other thread. Seems to me fox can change the records to state it went missing long ago or melted down for scrap metal. That is, if the intent was for anyone to identify it any more than a vague black tank that looks more like a shadow on wheels.

I see what youre saying though. I just figure Fox really was the only guy who particularly remembered its existence. It was tested by Wayne enterprises and failed quickly, tossed in the basement and forgotten as other companies probably had new prototype cars of that nature.

 

[Mauser9910]

Are you serious ? I thought the flashbacks were very obvious. What were you expecting the weird little noise and the screen to go fuzzy for a second to show you it is a flashback.

*Sigh* The only flash-backs are the ones with Thomas Wayne and little Bruce that's what makes them obvious.
I was talking about Bruce in Gotham/Bruce in China, it wasn't obvious the narration was straight forward or that flash-backs were in it.
To make a flash-back clear and simple, the DP (that's Director of Photography) helps the director by changing the lights, color tones of these sequences.

I'm done with this subject as I'm leaving for vacations !

(Heath Ledger as the Joker : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA !!! )

 

[Infinity9999x]

I thought BB was and is the best comic book movie to date, but it wasn't perfect.

For starters, the fighting was a little too choppy. I thought that style was good, but just move the camera back a little bit more. The Bourne Identity wasn't even as choppy as BB's fight secenes, and my perfect Batman fights would have the camera a little farther back and a little less choppy then the Bourne style.

The voice was a little over the top but not too bad really.

The third act with the mircrowave emitter. It can vaporize the water in pipes but not in people A little bit of a streatch there.

And of course, Rachel being in the movie instead of Harvey Dent. I would have much rather had Harvey in there, and Build him up through two movies so his transformation to Two Face is more tragic, then only building him up through one.