Batman Begins Those who disliked Begins - Why?

[millennium movies]

Galactical i agree with most your concerns and points. Remember how Phaser said on the first page that your overreacting and you wont get attacked for posting your disagreements? Well odd that he's usually the first to jump in and dissect your every word to the max. Thats why i didnt bother a year ago...

I still havent seen him post in other forums than this one.

 

[Rexi]

i repeat.. BB fights aren't failed. they were filmed that way on purpose. failed would be if they attempted to film a fight a certain way, and you could tell it was too much for them, and thus, fake. for example, if a character did a flip and one of his wires broke, that would be failed.

 

[Stupify_me]

i repeat.. BB fights aren't failed. they were filmed that way on purpose. failed would be if they attempted to film a fight a certain way, and you could tell it was too much for them, and thus, fake. for example, if a character did a flip and one of his wires broke, that would be failed.

Exactly and if you watch the special edition they even talk about this and explain why they choose to film the fights the way they did. I believe they said something like Batman is suppose to be one of the most skilled fighters in the world and they thought well how the hell do you show that? Then they thought Why show it he is so fast and so amazing that you can't even see his movements. Any way it was something like that it's been a month since the last time I watched it I better laod it in sometime this week.

 

[El Payaso]

Guys, an explanation doesn't justify a bad editing.

Bad editing is failed.

A broken wire is simply a blooper.

 

[El Payaso]

EDITED by Benny Hill

 

[Stupify_me]

Guys, an explanation doesn't justify a bad editing.

Bad editing is failed.

A broken wire is simply a blooper.

I simply do not see the bad editing at all. Looks just fine to me. Sorry that you disagree but that's life.

 

[Cobblepot]

First of all, I didn't dislike BB. But it could have been a whole lot better.
let me explain.

Nolan is going for realism isn't he?
1. So why do we have a Batmobile driving on rooftops!
When the tumbler landed on that church roof it should have fallen trought it.
What also bugged me was that when he turned down all of his lights, the helicopter and the cops lost all track of it, that makes no sense whatsoever.

2. Gordon's character is underused, and feels like he's only there for driving the tumbler and destroying the railtrack at the end. Gordon has so much more potential and I would have loved to see him interact with his wife.
And him having trouble to decide wheter he should support Batman or not.

3. I really have trouble with the Vapor Microwave emitter, why use something that fictional to destroy Gotham? There where tons of other options, plus releasing fear toxin has a lot of simularities towards Batman 1989.

4. And whe only get to see to or three good Batman scenes. The Flass interrogation scene, the dock scene and the one when he discovers what Crane is up to before he get's himself burned.

 

[Stupify_me]

First of all, I didn't dislike BB. But it could have been a whole lot better.
let me explain.

Nolan is going for realism isn't he?
1. So why do we have a Batmobile driving on rooftops!
When the tumbler landed on that church roof it should have fallen trought it.
What also bugged me was that when he turned down all of his lights, the helicopter and the cops lost all track of it, that makes no sense whatsoever.

2. Gordon's character is underused, and feels like he's only there for driving the tumbler and destroying the railtrack at the end. Gordon has so much more potential and I would have loved to see him interact with his wife.
And him having trouble to decide wheter he should support Batman or not.

3. I really have trouble with the Vapor Microwave emitter, why use something that fictional to destroy Gotham? There where tons of other options, plus releasing fear toxin has a lot of simularities towards Batman 1989.

4. And whe only get to see to or three good Batman scenes. The Flass interrogation scene, the dock scene and the one when he discovers what Crane is up to before he get's himself burned.

I will agree on number one but thats it. I hate the tumbler and I hated that whole scene Batman had complete diregard for every one on the road and could of killed countless innocent people.

I don't think Gordon was underused first of all it is a Batman movie but second of all it is the origin story he has to be introduced they can build with Gordon in number two. Seriously if Gordon is that important to you then surely you would of hated 89 and returns and all the others Gordon was way underused and didn't even have the right relationship with Batman.

The Microwave didn't bother me.

I thought there were plenty of good Batman scenes but like I said it is the origin story they wanted to show how he became Batman.

I will be more then willing to admit this was not perfect no movie is but I still consider it the best comic movie to date. Yes I had problems with it.

The Tumbler
The scene where he is destroying every one on the road with the tumbler
Katie Holmes and her charecter
The Batsuit was ok but It could of been so much better

and maybe a few other very minor details but I could list alot more problems with almsot any other comic book movie. The only comic Movie I might like more is A History of Violence

 

[Cobblepot]

Why Gordon bothered me in BB and not in B89, is because Tim Burton created his own "Batman world" his Gordon doesn't have the relationship that the Gordon has in the comics. The first time you see his Gordon you know that it's a completely different character.

The Batman created by Nolan is more comic accurate (except for Wilkinson (who bothered me) and Holmes (who annoyed me)) finally I hoped to see a good Gordon, and we all know that Gary Oldman was easely the best actor on the set, so I expected to see Gordon as he is in for example Year One. If only for a few scenes...

 

[Stupify_me]

Why Gordon bothered me in BB and not in B89, is because Tim Burton created his own "Batman world" his Gordon doesn't have the relationship that the Gordon has in the comics. The first time you see his Gordon you know that it's a completely different character.

The Batman created by Nolan is more comic accurate (except for Wilkinson (who bothered me) and Holmes (who annoyed me)) finally I hoped to see a good Gordon, and we all know that Gary Oldman was easely the best actor on the set, so I expected to see Gordon as he is in for example Year One. If only for a few scenes...

Like I said they were just introducing Gordon look for more of him in the next one.

By the way I wouldn't say we all know Gary Oldman is the best actor on set he is good but I woulnd't put him in that spot I would rank him below Bale who I think is the best the guy is just amazing and not just in Batman in every thing he does even in some of his not so good movies he stands out for giving the best performance.

 

[Cobblepot]

We can discuss about who is the better actor, but compared to Bale, Oldman is imo the better actor. I'm not saying Bale isn't but movies like:
Dracula, Leon, 5th Element we're all movies he rocked in.

And I'm sure that we will see more of Gordon in The Dark Knight, I was just a bit dissapointed.

 

[Stupify_me]

We can discuss about who is the better actor, but compared to Bale, Oldman is imo the better actor. I'm not saying Bale isn't but movies like:
Dracula, Leon, 5th Element we're all movies he rocked in.

And I'm sure that we will see more of Gordon in The Dark Knight, I was just a bit dissapointed.

I guess we will just agree to disagree I fell in love with Bale (His Acting) when I saw The Machinist

 

[Cobblepot]

The Machinist was great...

 

[Stupify_me]

The Machinist was great...

It was and one of those few movies with a good twist at the end.

 

[Beelze]

It was and one of those few movies with a good twist at the end.

And a good, fitting ending to boot!

 

[Beelze]

First of all, I didn't dislike BB. But it could have been a whole lot better.
let me explain.

Nolan is going for realism isn't he?
1. So why do we have a Batmobile driving on rooftops!
When the tumbler landed on that church roof it should have fallen trought it.
What also bugged me was that when he turned down all of his lights, the helicopter and the cops lost all track of it, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Can't say I know much about the varying strength of roofs... but if roofs could hold a vehicle that heavy, Batman would know which roofs (he seemed to have put in "tactical data" in the tumbler's computer. Unrealistic or not, I wouldn't say that one thing broke everything that was realistic about the movie.

2. Gordon's character is underused, and feels like he's only there for driving the tumbler and destroying the railtrack at the end. Gordon has so much more potential and I would have loved to see him interact with his wife.
And him having trouble to decide wheter he should support Batman or not.

True, he could have been used more, and it could have made the movie better. It could also have messed up the pacing. It's not too late to expand on his character in future movies.

3. I really have trouble with the Vapor Microwave emitter, why use something that fictional to destroy Gotham? There where tons of other options, plus releasing fear toxin has a lot of simularities towards Batman 1989.

My rationlization for this:

Other ways to bring Gotham down would've cost a lot, and many of them would be harmful to the environment (which Ra's would not want). The fear gas cheap to produce, had proved very effective, and the microwave emitter didn't cost them much since they stole it. Plus, having a high-tech military device such as the microwave emitter in your hands is pretty nice. Never know when you might wanna use it again.

4. And whe only get to see to or three good Batman scenes. The Flass interrogation scene, the dock scene and the one when he discovers what Crane is up to before he get's himself burned.

Too much of the good could be bad. And don't forget the decorative rooftop scenes! Or when he leaves the train car near at the end. I think there were enough good Batman scenes, but this is highly subjective.

 

[Cobblepot]

Can't say I know much about the varying strength of roofs... but if roofs could hold a vehicle that heavy, Batman would know which roofs (he seemed to have put in "tactical data" in the tumbler's computer. Unrealistic or not, I wouldn't say that one thing broke everything that was realistic about the movie.[/qoute]

Even if a church roof could hold a tank (I doubt it) it still makes no sense. And what about his dissapearing act?

True, he could have been used more, and it could have made the movie better. It could also have messed up the pacing. It's not too late to expand on his character in future movies.

The pacing already lacked, I'm a huge Batman fan and I like to rewatch BB, but I skip quite a few scenes. Incl. the train scene at the end.


[qoute]
Other ways to bring Gotham down would've cost a lot, and many of them would be harmful to the environment (which Ra's would not want). The fear gas cheap to produce, had proved very effective, and the microwave emitter didn't cost them much since they stole it. Plus, having a high-tech military device such as the microwave emitter in your hands is pretty nice. Never know when you might wanna use it again.[/qoute]

Nolan went for realism right? Why come up with a device that doesn't even makes sense on film? He could have just bomb Gotham City, or tried to burn it to ground.

Too much of the good could be bad. And don't forget the decorative rooftop scenes! Or when he leaves the train car near at the end. I think there were enough good Batman scenes, but this is highly subjective.

Your right, now taht you mention it there are a few more scenes.
I just wish there were a few more Batman - Gordon scenes a less Bruce - Holmes.

 

[El Payaso]

I simply do not see the bad editing at all. Looks just fine to me. Sorry that you disagree but that's life.

I dig that. I was disagreeing about having Nolan's further explanations as a "reason". And that flaws are bloopers exclusively (they're not).

 

[y2jversion1]

Although I loved BB, there were a couple of things that bugged me:

1. Scarecrow/Crane - a bit underused and the way he was taken out with a taser after delivering the "There's nothing to fear but fear itself" line sucked. I was like WTF? That's it? I really hope they bring him back in one of the sequels as even more deranged & psychotic as a result of being electrocuted while saturated with the fear toxin.

2. The Tumbler's stealth mode. Ok, nothing wrong with suspension of beleif (or disbeleif) - but that part was just plain silly.

3. The changing positions in the Tumbler to shoot & drive etc. I found that pretty silly as well and in 'reality' would be more of a distraction & hindrance than a benefit.

4. The fight scenes - I understand that they were intended to be filmed as chaotic, however it would have been nice to see some long or medium-long shots of Bats actually showing us the fight using the KeySi fighting method, just so the audience can see Batman's unusual fight style.

5. Gordon & the Tumbler. Nothing more than to pull in cheap laughs. Gordon's "Macaulay Culkin" reactions were a bit over the top and somewhat annoying.


Other than that, Begins is still one of the few movies that I can watch over and over again and still not get bored of. It's up there with Superman: The Movie as one of the best comic movies out there.

(Spiderman & Spiderman 2 may be great and considered as the greatest comic book movies - but I'm more of a DC kinda guy, hence the bias...hey, I'm being honest here..)

 

[Stupify_me]

(Spiderman & Spiderman 2 may be great and considered as the greatest comic book movies - but I'm more of a DC kinda guy, hence the bias...hey, I'm being honest here..)

I prefer Marvel over DC most of the Time but Batman is my al time favirote comic him and Lantern are the only DC guys im really in to.

As far as the spiderman movies guy I enjoyed Spiderman one and it is up there with the greatest comic movies but I really coudln't stand number two I just didn't likeit at all. To much Harry Doc OCK is one of my least favirote spidey villians and I just didn't enjoy the story at all the only thing I liked was the stuff with Peter and Mary that was it the rest of it just annoyed/bored me.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

I thought it was OK proably about a 6 out of ten.

1.) I'm not a ******, so i would like the writer to stop treating me like one. Every single emotion is explained in this film, here are some moments from the film, I'm paraphrasing here " Master Bruce maybe you should act differently in public so nobody will supect you to be Batman" "Bruce you're not the man I fell in love with, you're a mask" " I'm fear Batman terror I fear will terror help fear you terror, Fear fear fear terror terror terror" I mean the whole "fear" business is really rammed down your throught. "Why Bats Master Wanye" "Cause Bats frighten me Alfred. plus twice we were told that he became Batman to be a symbol.

2.) Batman orders every thing, " Hey look Alfred here's a bat computer for only $7000 dollars, we save 25% but we better act now offer ends july 31st" Or if he doesn't order it he just takes it from Wanye Enterprieses. Nobody notices these things are missing, yet Fox is worried that somebody may ask.

3.) His parents aren't people to worry about, seriously his Dad is an ass. The city is struggling so he builds a train, could for him but why does he have to ride it, there he is in all his finery surronded by people who just worked their ass of all day, maybe it wasn't crime that created Joe kill just Wanyes arrogance.

4.) One of the major parts of the movie is when he decides not kill someone, cause I'm not an executioner, yet he kills at least two people, pretend Ra and real ra and has no remoarce for it. Not to mention he has no idea whether or not that crashing train is landing on someones head.

5.) The micro omitter or whatever its called, can make water evapourate in radious of a 1/4 mile yet affects humans in no way. Also they set it off on a boat when they steal it. So can this boat fly cause if it can't then its going to fall and smash since the water surronding it is evapourated, and as soon as it is turned off water is going to come in and smash the boat up.

6.) The scene when Batman is questioning Flass proves Bale can't play Batman. Why is he shouting, why does he need to a person in control of the stituation does not need to shout, army interrogators do not shout, hell even teacher who can control a class don't need to, but Batman holding a guy upside down 30 ft up does.

7.) The humour. "hey man Nice ride" Nuff said really.

8.) The fight scenes were poor. Now you can about how realistic it was, or that it showed his rage or whatever but fact is that we sat through a hour of the movie without a pay off in the second half plus I want to see Batman kick some ass. You can call me an action junkie if you want but Batman, no matter how much batfanboys might claim otherwise is an action hero and he wasn't in this.

 

[XCharlieX]

3.) His parents aren't people to worry about, seriously his Dad is an ass. The city is struggling so he builds a train, could for him but why does he have to ride it, there he is in all his finery surronded by people who just worked their ass of all day, maybe it wasn't crime that created Joe kill just Wanyes arrogance.

oO Wow thats a perversion.

 

[BatMatt]

everytime I read this thread title I just hear Jim Gaffigan speaking

"you dont' like mayonaisse? Why?"

 

[Stupify_me]

everytime I read this thread title I just hear Jim Gaffigan speaking

"you dont' like mayonaisse? Why?"

That guy is so freaking funny

 

[BatMatt]

That guy is so freaking funny

sure is