TIH to Hulk:Ambigious/Reboot?Sequel?Or Requel?

[Hmarrs]

Don't want to start nothing but.........................

A.)Louis Leterrier: "I love Ang's movie – love Ang's movie. Ang Lee's an amazing filmmaker so I didn't want to do something that would disappoint the people who had seen Ang's movie and liked it. And also I didn't want to do a movie that would go over what Ang had done before, so I didn't want to do an origin story.
Basically it was a movie for everyone It's what you want it to be.

B.)Marvel said it as well time and time again it's what you want it to be.
"Avi Arad:To the poeple who want a Re-boot this film is for you it's a re-boot.
For people who like the first film we left enough of it's original concept for those who would like it to be sequel."

There are many Tie-in left open to a sequel if you want it to be.The first movie left of with Gen.Ross calling Betty looking for him.

How would that tie-in toTIH?
Simple she get's in touch with him.They try an experiment with the Super Soldier serum and the chair.Who said in that scene it was his first Transformation.That transformation may just account for his differance in appearance.He altered his appearance from the machine.

It has happened time and time again in the comics.It is left very Ambigious.If you take it as a sequel it's your explaination as to why he looks different.The use of the serum may have been what he was working on to control his previous state.Like in the Ultimate Avengers Cartoon.Using the machine to implement it and it backfired.Changing his appearance,giving him the ability to speak as well as decreasing his strength from the previous movie.Again very ambigious.He leaves once again where to?the only other place he was established South America Brazil.Where we leave off in the first movie.

Tie-in#1.That's why the artic scene was cut out from the begginning and we pick up again in South America.In the Conference room Ross is talking to some people and he says:This guy meaning Bruce.This guy has been on the run for five years and he hasn't made a mistake for 5 years what makes you think he is going to make one now.5 years is the exact time it was between movie number one and movie number 2.

Tie-in#2.Once again we see who?Lou Ferrigno playing what part?Oh my goodness the Security guard he played in the first movie.

Tie-in #3.Shall I go on.Unless of course you think all of this is coincedence?But now if you want it to be a Re-boot then you take the first scene as the origin.Either they never say they left it up to the person to decide.It is very Ambigious.To the people that wanted a Re-boot they said okay it's a re-boot.They said time and time again.What ever you want it to be.And they filmed it that way.

In TIH people who wanted the Grey Hulk it was in there.He was Greenish/Grey.People who wanted the T.V Hulk it had that storyline.People who wanted the Banner controlled Hulk it was in there at the end.People who wanted a Re-boot it was there with a new cast,People(Ang Lee fans) who wanted a Sequel there were enough tie-ins in there to be so.People who wanted a no talking Hulk it was in there,People who wanted a talking Hulk it was in there.People who wanted the Ultimate Hulk the Super Soldier Serum storyline was in there.Bottom line was they wanted to cover all of their bases and please everyone.It was whatever you wanted it to be.
When marvel and Avi were asked if TIH was a reboot he said yes if you want it to be however if you want it to be sequel it can be that too.It's whatever you want it to be.

With so much Ambiguity it seems so.I'm not saying it is a sequel.Like Marvel said it's what you want it be.

However I would say this I wish a third movie did come out tying the two together.
Why?The Ang Lee movie may have not been the best but it wasn't the worst.
There have been good Hulk comics and there have been bad Hulk comics but in the end their still part of the continuity.I wouldn't want to have to except one or the other.WHY?
Ang Lee had it's good moments so did TIH.There have been good 007 movie's and bad 007 movies.WHY should you have say one is a James bond flick and one isn't.You have your favorites and you have your not so favorites.
Marvel should not apologize to the world and say."Oh yeah we messed up!"
That only makes the general public view what the already see a ridiculous Genre as even more ridiculous.The general public says."These people don't know what their doing.


Just write it all in together.It makes sense to us why he would look different.Act different have a difference in strength we have seen it all before in the comics.Just go with it.The Hulk has been rebooted over and over again in the comics Grey,Green,Savage,Bruce Banner Hulk,Mindless Hulk,Savage Banner Hulk,Professor Hulk,World War Hulk,and yet kept within the same storyline.Just roll with it.

You have to admit if you want to or not they played it out that way.Don't jump on me.I just wanted your input,views and your opinion......

 

[Bad Superman]

To me it's a reboot with some elements from Ang's Hulk.

 

[Spidey-Quad]

Tired of Hulk movies without enough action. Until they can afford the amount of CGI, we'll continue to feel ripped off. Look at the Ultimates first Hulk fight. Will/can they do it justice in Avengers movie? Of course without people being devoured. I think not.

 

[david icke]

Tired of Hulk movies without enough action. Until they can afford the amount of CGI, we'll continue to feel ripped off. Look at the Ultimates first Hulk fight. Will/can they do it justice in Avengers movie? Of course without people being devoured. I think not.

i thought the ang lee hulk had more action than most sh movies. how many sh movies have an extended action sequence that is as long and varied as the desert-the city section?
the problem for me was the final action scene was not terribly good, when it should have been a great absorbing man vs hulk battle.
ok, he tried something a bit more experimental, to be a bit different with a sh climax, but, there is a time to experiment and a time to just do what is expected by the audience. sometimes the audience just want to see hendrix play purple haze, not play a 10min blues solo with his teeth while hooked up to a tumble dryer.
and this was one of those times, the hulk vs the absorbing man, we don't want to see the hulk trapped in an abstract painting of a bubble bath, we want to see him battle a shape shifting madman.

also, i didn't think banner was too iunteresting, but, apart from that end battle, we got some pretty damn good hulk action in that one.

 

[weezerspider]

I thought TIH had enough action

 

[Nathan]

I have a terrible case of deja vu.

 

[co2]

I'm glad you created this thread. Honestly, I have a hard time convincing myself that TIH was a sequel, even though I have considered the exact things you mentioned. However I really like to think of it that way. The emotional depth that was poured into Hulk would make TIH have so much more emotional impact..which is something it was lacking a bit.
I think what probably happened is that the screenplay was re-tooled from the approach of being a sequel. So even though it was a "re-imagining", as Feige said, it maintained all of the elements that it would have had if they went ahead with the sequel approach.


I think if you watch them back to back, and go with the thought that it is all one story based on the conditions you gave above, it's a great story. So because it is a better experience, I'm going to consider it that way.

 

[some guy]

Don't want to start nothing but.........................

A.)Louis Leterrier: "I love Ang's movie – love Ang's movie. Ang Lee's an amazing filmmaker so I didn't want to do something that would disappoint the people who had seen Ang's movie and liked it. And also I didn't want to do a movie that would go over what Ang had done before, so I didn't want to do an origin story.
Basically it was a movie for everyone It's what you want it to be.

B.)Marvel said it as well time and time again it's what you want it to be.
"Avi Arad:To the poeple who want a Re-boot this film is for you it's a re-boot.
For people who like the first film we left enough of it's original concept for those who would like it to be sequel."

There are many Tie-in left open to a sequel if you want it to be.The first movie left of with Gen.Ross calling Betty looking for him.

How would that tie-in toTIH?
Simple she get's in touch with him.They try an experiment with the Super Soldier serum and the chair.Who said in that scene it was his first Transformation.That transformation may just account for his differance in appearance.He altered his appearance from the machine.

It has happened time and time again in the comics.It is left very Ambigious.If you take it as a sequel it's your explaination as to why he looks different.The use of the serum may have been what he was working on to control his previous state.Like in the Ultimate Avengers Cartoon.Using the machine to implement it and it backfired.Changing his appearance,giving him the ability to speak as well as decreasing his strength from the previous movie.Again very ambigious.He leaves once again where to?the only other place he was established South America Brazil.Where we leave off in the first movie.

Tie-in#1.That's why the artic scene was cut out from the begginning and we pick up again in South America.In the Conference room Ross is talking to some people and he says:This guy meaning Bruce.This guy has been on the run for five years and he hasn't made a mistake for 5 years what makes you think he is going to make one now.5 years is the exact time it was between movie number one and movie number 2.

Tie-in#2.Once again we see who?Lou Ferrigno playing what part?Oh my goodness the Security guard he played in the first movie.

Tie-in #3.Shall I go on.Unless of course you think all of this is coincedence?But now if you want it to be a Re-boot then you take the first scene as the origin.Either they never say they left it up to the person to decide.It is very Ambigious.To the people that wanted a Re-boot they said okay it's a re-boot.They said time and time again.What ever you want it to be.And they filmed it that way.

In TIH people who wanted the Grey Hulk it was in there.He was Greenish/Grey.People who wanted the T.V Hulk it had that storyline.People who wanted the Banner controlled Hulk it was in there at the end.People who wanted a Re-boot it was there with a new cast,People(Ang Lee fans) who wanted a Sequel there were enough tie-ins in there to be so.People who wanted a no talking Hulk it was in there,People who wanted a talking Hulk it was in there.People who wanted the Ultimate Hulk the Super Soldier Serum storyline was in there.Bottom line was they wanted to cover all of their bases and please everyone.It was whatever you wanted it to be.
When marvel and Avi were asked if TIH was a reboot he said yes if you want it to be however if you want it to be sequel it can be that too.It's whatever you want it to be.

With so much Ambiguity it seems so.I'm not saying it is a sequel.Like Marvel said it's what you want it be.

However I would say this I wish a third movie did come out tying the two together.
Why?The Ang Lee movie may have not been the best but it wasn't the worst.
There have been good Hulk comics and there have been bad Hulk comics but in the end their still part of the continuity.I wouldn't want to have to except one or the other.WHY?
Ang Lee had it's good moments so did TIH.There have been good 007 movie's and bad 007 movies.WHY should you have say one is a James bond flick and one isn't.You have your favorites and you have your not so favorites.
Marvel should not apologize to the world and say."Oh yeah we messed up!"
That only makes the general public view what the already see a ridiculous Genre as even more ridiculous.The general public says."These people don't know what their doing.


Just write it all in together.It makes sense to us why he would look different.Act different have a difference in strength we have seen it all before in the comics.Just go with it.The Hulk has been rebooted over and over again in the comics Grey,Green,Savage,Bruce Banner Hulk,Mindless Hulk,Savage Banner Hulk,Professor Hulk,World War Hulk,and yet kept within the same storyline.Just roll with it.

You have to admit if you want to or not they played it out that way.Don't jump on me.I just wanted your input,views and your opinion......

TIH could easily have been a sequel. I personally consider it one, I just fill in the discrepancies between the 2 films like you have. The smaller Hulk in the second film could be attributed to Banner Sr. absorbing much of Bruce's energy.

When the Spidey reboot happens, I wish they'd take a similar approach to TIH. Even with the FF reboot, as bad as the first films were.

 

[david icke]

TIH could easily have been a sequel. I personally consider it one, I just fill in the discrepancies between the 2 films like you have. The smaller Hulk in the second film could be attributed to Banner Sr. absorbing much of Bruce's energy.

When the Spidey reboot happens, I wish they'd take a similar approach to TIH. Even with the FF reboot, as bad as the first films were.

yeah, i was hoping they would cast the same guy as Doc Conners, so that when we get a lizard movie someday, it will still feel like we are on the same build up to it that was started by the raimi films.
it would be nice to keep the same jameson as well, that way you could kind of link it up much the same way as the schumacher films did to the burton batmans.

as for the hulk, yeah, it's nice that the re-boot starts off in a faraway country like the ang lee one finishes on, so you can imagine it is a continuation if you ignore the credits and bleep over some details.
y'know, just so you can watch them as a cool double bill of the same story one afternoon.
i mean, wolverine is a bonafide prequel to x-men2, but because of the discrepancies between the footage of his adamantium bonding process, you kind of have to do some bleeping over some facts anyway, so why not with officially unattached movies? esp if there is not much to bleep over.
ok,, i am starting to sound like roadrunner, i'm outta here..bleep bleep!............

 

[bubbadoom]

what is a "requel"?

 

[david icke]

what is a "requel"?

from what i understand of the concept as hmarrs has put it....if you want to imagine a re-boot is a sequel, and manage to mentally change/bleep out some details so they match up like that, then what you are watching in this state of mind is what could be termed a 'requel'.
it is also the proposed title of the follow up to the dastardly and muttley movie.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Very broadly speaking, it is a sequel. It picks up where the first film left off.

 

[Sarg92]

It is a reboot.

Zak Penn's original script was like a sequel but he described it as being like how Aliens is a sequel to Alien but it is still a different film.

When Edward Norton came on board, he and Leterrier decided to go for a full reboot so Norton rewrote the script as one with a new origin for Banner/Hulk.

 

[Maximillian]

I don't see how TIH could be a sequel. In Ang Lee's film, Banner was exposed to gamma rays from a different device than the chair in TIH. And in the latter, he didn't save anyone called Harper. Plus, in Ang Lee's film it was an accident. In TIH, Banner volunteered to do it.

 

[Obi-Ron]

You can certainly see the seeds of a sequel to Ang Lee's Hulk in The Incredible Hulk but there have been enough changes that it is clearly not meant to be in the same continuity. Personally I think they tried a little too hard to distance the second movie from the first. The ideal Hulk movie to me lies somewhere between the two - elements such as the psychological depth, use of the American southwest as a location (with leaping included ) and the skin tone and body mass (not the same as his height) from the Ang Lee version (it also had the better Rosses); and from Louis Leterrier I would take the Hulk's face, height and speaking ability, and also the inclusion of characters from the comic and TV show.

 

[Hmarrs]

as for the hulk, yeah, it's nice that the re-boot starts off in a faraway country like the ang lee one finishes on, so you can imagine it is a continuation if you ignore the credits and bleep over some details.

Which details in the credits are you referring to and why???
Because if your referring to the chair scene that's simple.He went back for a cure they promised him with the Super serum.Which then backfired making the hulk smaller weaker yet more agressive.Maybe it only worked half way to a cure making him closer to human kind of like Grey hulk with the ability to speak.

i mean, wolverine is a bonafide prequel to x-men2, but because of the discrepancies between the footage of his adamantium bonding process,

Which discrepancies????

 

[Hmarrs]

I don't see how TIH could be a sequel. In Ang Lee's film, Banner was exposed to gamma rays from a different device than the chair in TIH. And in the latter, he didn't save anyone called Harper. Plus, in Ang Lee's film it was an accident. In TIH, Banner volunteered to do it.

True but it was never implied as the origin go back and read the top of this post to what Letterier said in response to this.It was or can be view as another device which altered is appearance benn done time and time again in the comics.It really was left ambigous on purpose.It's up to the person.
Dude you can even take it a step further.In one comic Bruce cures himself using a machine.By which time Doc Samson romances Betty.Bruse gets jealous so he uses the machine to fight Samson and becomes the Hulk again.
Yet Samson was also in this movie as a love interest but cut out.
So it's really all been done before.

Who knows where Norton was really going!!!!!!!!

 

[some guy]

from what i understand of the concept as hmarrs has put it....if you want to imagine a re-boot is a sequel, and manage to mentally change/bleep out some details so they match up like that, then what you are watching in this state of mind is what could be termed a 'requel'.
it is also the proposed title of the follow up to the dastardly and muttley movie.

There was a Dastardly and Muttley movie?

 

[Hmarrs]

from what I understand of the concept as hmarrs has put it....if you want to imagine a re-boot is a sequel, and manage to mentally change/bleep out some details so they match up like that, then what you are watching in this state of mind is what could be termed a 'requel'.
it is also the proposed title of the follow up to the dastardly and muttley movie.

Your a funny guy.Actually a Re-quel would be in terms of let's say James Bond a new rendition or re-telling story of the same character within a stand alone story and within the same guidlines of it's predecessors.It's not connected yet not seperate.(Now that I think about it that's exactly what it is).However my question to you is why is it my statement to some of you guys so irrelevent when it was Lettier,Avi and Marvel that made the statement themselves first.As far as where I was going they themselves were never forthcomming and in analizing the effort itself whether you enjoyed TIH or not was an amazing achievment to be able to tie this movie into every Genre of the Hulk.
Hulk movie one,Incredible Hulk T.V show,Incredible Hulk Ultimate,Incredible Hulk Grey,Incredible Hulk Savage,Incredible Hulk talking.Clearly they went in all avenues,Reboot,Sequel,and or Requel it was purposefully done this way.Covering all their bases.If I was wrong we wouldn't even be able to have this discussion.

They said whatever you want it to be.
It can be a sequel to the Hulk if you want it to be.
It can be the movie Version of the T.V. show.
It can be the Ultimate Hulk if you want it to be.
It can be a total re-boot.
It can be the Grey Hulk.
It can be a requel.
It be Savage Hulk.
It can be Banner controlled Hulk.
It can be Mindless Hulk.
It can be Talking Hulk.
Stong yet not Too Strong.
Jumping Hulk
Not jumping Hulk.

They left it to us as too not be a failure covering all of their bases making everyone happy or maybe in this case no-one happy.

They played the safe card.

 

[david icke]

Which detaila in the credits are you referring to and why???
Because if your referring to the chair scene that's simple.He went back for a cure they promised him with the Super serum.Which then backfired making the hulk smaller weaker yet more agressive.Maybe it only worked half way to a cure making him closer to human kind of like Grey hulk with the ability to speak.

yeah, i liked your idea/their idea about that, tbh i did not read all of your op, sorry, so i thought the 'requel' name and concept was yours, i was serious when i said what i thought you meant by that term btw, the only joke being the muttley thing.

but what i do is imagine that banner has just stayed in that country since the ang movie and ignore the credits sequence as having happened, if i want to imagine it as being a continuation.

Which discrepancies????

ok, in the flashbacks to logan's bonding process in X2, we see a lot of black measurement lines drawn on logan's body as part of the experiment, not there in xmo:w.
also, you see logan with blood running from his hands as he is escaping from the facility in the x2 fb, not present in xmow, he looks a much bigger mess in the x2 fb in general, not as cool , calm and collected as the moment when he handily slices the metal wall open to escape in xmo:w.
We also see more officials present during his bonding process in the x2 fb, glasses of champagne are being passed around etc, not present in xmo:w.
there are differences in general between the operation rooms in both films as well i am sure, although i can't say exactly what.

 

[david icke]

There was a Dastardly and Muttley movie?

lol, i wish, no, that was just a little gag meaning that 'requel' is the way muttley would say sequel.

 

[Hmarrs]

yeah, i liked your idea/their idea about that, tbh i did not read all of your op, sorry, so i thought the 'requel' name and concept was yours, i was serious when i said what i thought you meant by that term btw, the only joke being the muttley thing.

Oh no that's cool I loved that cartoon.

but what i do is imagine that banner has just stayed in that country since the ang movie and ignore the credits sequence as having happened, if i want to imagine it as being a continuation.

Well you really don't have to ignore it like I said.I see it as though he stood there long enough to establish himself and then came back willing to work with Ross on a cure using the SS serum.However it backfires giving the Hulk a new look and strength level.Morphing Hulk once again as we have seen so many times before.Then returning back to where he was loosely established before.It really wasn't that hard for them to find him it almost seemed as though they were scouring South America for him.

ok, in the flashbacks to logan's bonding process in X2, we see a lot of black measurement lines drawn on logan's body as part of the experiment, not there in xmo:w.
also, you see logan with blood running from his hands as he is escaping from the facility in the x2 fb, not present in xmow, he looks a much bigger mess in the x2 fb in general, not as cool , calm and collected as the moment when he handily slices the metal wall open to escape in xmo:w.
We also see more officials present during his bonding process in the x2 fb, glasses of champagne are being passed around etc, not present in xmo:w.
there are differences in general between the operation rooms in both films as well i am sure, although i can't say exactly what.

True good point on all of the above.I feel Singer's had a more dark and tormenting feel to it.I liked it better.

 

[david icke]

Oh no that's cool I loved that cartoon.

nab him, grab him, half him, stab him, stop that pigeon......noooooow!(may not be exact lyrics)

in fact, there's one little guy around here I've noticed who has totally stolen muttley's schtick....

Well you really don't have to ignore it like I said.I see it as though he stood there long enough to establish himself and then came back willing to work with Ross on a cure using the SS serum.However it backfires giving the Hulk a new look and strength level.Morphing Hulk once again as we have seen so many times before.Then returning back to where he was loosely established before.It really wasn't that hard for them to find him it almost seemed as though they were scouring South America for him.

yeah, i never thought before of doing anything like that, so i like that idea.
you could even say that he did not tell them where he was living before he came back for the ss experiment, so went back there as it was a nice set up, like you say. and then we have stan and his wee accident in front of the fridge to guide them.

True good point on all of the above.I feel Singer's had a more dark and tormenting feel to it.I liked it better.

oh yeah, it was way better, yeah the 'dark and tormenting' vibe is exactly what the xmo:w set up lacked.

 

[Hmarrs]

nab him, grab him, half him, stab him, stop that pigeon......noooooow!(may not be exact lyrics)

in fact, there's one little guy around here I've noticed who has totally stolen muttley's schtick....

Let me see>>>>
Nab him, Grab him,Jab him,Stab him,stop that pigoen now!!!
I think.Awesome cartoon.Dang dude you made me go all Nostalgic now I'm all emotional and what not.....

yeah, i never thought before of doing anything like that, so i like that idea.
you could even say that he did not tell them where he was living before he came back for the ss experiment, so went back there as it was a nice set up, like you say. and then we have stan and his wee accident in front of the fridge to guide them.

Well it's almost like they had some idea.He said Brazil as if they knew he was in South America but didn't know exactly where.
Also according to the Ultimate storyline he mixes the Serum with Captain America's Blood.Anyway this mix makes him more violent again explaining his disposition in this film as opposed to the last one.

oh yeah, it was way better, yeah the 'dark and tormenting' vibe is exactly what the xmo:w set up lacked.

Would have loved it if it had been done by Singer.

 

[david icke]

I think.Awesome cartoon.Dang dude you made me go all Nostalgic now I'm all emotional and what not.....

i have a hannah barbera album with all the cartoon theme tunes on it, dastardly and muttley are probably the biggest drawings on the cover of it. awesome album to have, maybe 40plus tracks on it.

Well it's almost like they had some idea.He said Brazil as if they knew he was in South America but didn't know exactly where.
Also according to the Ultimate storyline he mixes the Serum with Captain America's Blood.Anyway this mix makes him more violent again explaining his disposition in this film as opposed to the last one.

ok, i don't remember that brazil bit. and that's a good explanation to have for the disposition difference, damn, i wish they had just went with all that now, but that's cool, we can just go with it.
i only have ultimate wolverine vs hulk, i havent read any other ultimates, but that gave me an idea of how out of control that hulk was of course.

Would have loved it if it had been done by Singer.

i know, imagine he had done all of them, he was offered xmo:w but kb'd it. at least he is producing the new x-men prequel, i read the lee/kirby stuff when i was a kid in the uk weekly, so am looking forward to seeing that era. even though the line-up will be slightly different, the main things are cyke and jean meeting, cyke having his problems as he is scared of his power, and the young beast goes a long way, i hope they do him with the big feet and hands etc, and then we see him do that experiment that turns him blue. i read about that when he turned up to audition in the avengers. beast was great in the avengers too, pity we won't see that more crazy fun beast of that avengers era on film. well, maybe we will see that in an x-prequel i suppose, even if we never see him in avengers.
and i'm quite happy that matthew vaughnn is doing x-men after seeing his chops on kick-ass, he will probably bring the best action to the franchise, singer did have his moments too though. but vaughnn made a 30mil sh movie look like a 100mil movie, he will do well with the big budget, even though folk are saying he does not have time to do it justice.