Tim Burton's Batman Films vs Christopher Nolan's Batman Films

[Ponyboy]

Apart from a Department Store named after him, he didn't seem that well established. There is no specified time frame between Batman '89 and Returns. A man like Schreck would have been heavily involved in the 200th anniversary celebrations.

Not if he was involved in the grand opening of his department store.

Also I think Shreck's rapport with the mayor, as well as Bruce Wayne (they all seem to know one another) means he's established in town. For however long that might be I don't know. From the "famous" photos on Shreck's office wall... maybe he was pursuing a career in politics while he was out hobnobbing with America's elite.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Because he is Batman, you moron

I always get a kick out of that. Shreck sure looked like a dumbass in that scene, nothing against the character.

 

[The Joker]

Not if he was involved in the grand opening of his department store.

Also I think Shreck's rapport with the mayor, as well as Bruce Wayne (they all seem to know one another) means he's established in town. For however long that might be I don't know. From the "famous" photos on Shreck's office wall... maybe he was pursuing a career in politics while he was out hobnobbing with America's elite.

That's all unfounded speculation. I can only judge by what was shown. There was an entirely different Mayor between the two movies. Harvey Dent had vanished off the face of the earth without a mention from anyone in Returns.

Considering the economic trouble Gotham was in, and how the festival was deeply in debt, a mention of a prominent business man like Schreck would certainly have been there. "Gotham's own Santa Claus" wouldn't have stood by and let the City struggle to have a celebration for the City's 200th birthday.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This is an unfair comparison:

Nolan's Batman:
A ninja
More light is shed on his origin, best IMO
He does a full trilogy, both the first & second movies are great so far
A good commissioner Gordon

Burton's Batman:
He made two movies, one of them is very good, the other is really stupid
Batman kills thugs, I like that more than the bleeding heart hero
Joker dances (he did that at times in the animated series, I find it funny, the dude is meant to be both funny and terrifying)
Nicer looking Bat-Mobile

 

[Godzilla2014]

I completely disagree. Who would ever expect, out of millions of citizens of Gotham, for a businessman who is forgotten by people to be the Batman who has lately appeared in Gotham? The only reason Bales Batman plays Tony Stark is because his situation is completely different - he came back from the dead and appeared in Gotham JUST as Batman did, which is an enormous coincidence. He has to act like a moron as much as possible to fool people

But I still think that Bale was a better Bruce Wayne. I wouldn't suspect him as Batman before I suspected a reclusive millionaire like Keaton portrayed him.

Dont blame dog for being dog. Burton's Batman was based on Kane's early, pre-Robin portrayal of the Batman world with a small tint of the modern age, Gordon was just being faithful to the Kane's Gordon - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/02/batmangordon-relationship-in-movies.html

I just felt that the supporting cast was underdeveloped and underused. Thank you for the link by the way!

Are you serious? Did you see the freaks Joker was hiring/working with in the comics? Besides, I dont even see them as anything out of ordinary. He simply had different thugs with different skills. One guy was a big tough boxer, another a karate guy, another a swordsman etc etc. See nothing weird here

What is the point of having a swordsman? The sword is obsolete because its reach is limited to that of your arm, while a gun can reach out much further. Not to mention the dude who holds the juke box.

As a fan of Batman comics , scifi and fantasy, I prefer imaginative thugs over everyday life people. Besides, even if we discount the comic books, its simply just a natural signature trait of Burton's imaginative fantasy world

I am conceding this point, though many of my favorite Batman stories (of those I have read), are semi-realistic, like Batman: Year One, The Dark Knight Returns, The Long Halloween.

I disagree, I think Keaton's Batman is creepy because his insanity is apparent. He was modeled after Dracula and didnt hesitate to kill when he felt like it. And again, his eyes and persona were that of a spook, a ghost almost. This Batman, as intended, was insane

I can concede to this point, though I am not a fan of the insane Batman. I just feel it is unnecessary. If Batman must be insane to wear a costume to fight crime then so must Spider-Man, Daredevil, Superman, and every other costumed hero be.

Did you forget that he was just in a plane crash and could barely walk, stumbling and fighting to keep a balance? He even fell in the cathedral

But he generally was not that impressive in combat. For example, in the alley way fight scene, he is temporarily KO'ed by someone hitting him on the back.

Thats one's opinion. I think a yell is more obvious, something we can get from everyone. A stoic whisper from a guy whose eyes come out of the darkness is more interesting imo. But then again, the voices worked for each take. The ghostly whisper worked for the Gothic Phantom take on the Batman and the angry growl worked for the Bale's Batman which was based on agression and wild animals

I concede here that they work for the Batmen incarnations. That said, I am tired of people saying that "Bale growls too much". This got old when everyone and their grandma parodied this after BATMAN BEGINS.

Miniguns and missiles are not designed to hit people, theyre designed to hit mass targets which they do - Jokers goons are killed en masseand tents and parade floats are hit. Its near impossible to hit one small target which is a person

As something of an expert on military hardware, I can tell you that, yes they are. A laser guided missile could hit a leaf if the laser designator remains on that leaf. Gatling guns are very accurate weapons to maximize the rounds on target in a minimal amount of time. This is why jet fighters use these weapons as well as missiles.

As Comic Adaptation explains, Joker's gun shot with an explosive shell, and its also apparent in the movie that its not a bullet that this thing is firing since it explodes when hits the Batwing. Besides, I personally dont think it needs any explanation at all. We know the world of Burton is never about reality and never claime dot or try to be, its about being bizarre, fantasy and feel

I thought it was just odd and out of place in a serious movie like this. Burton couldn't think of a better way to destroy the Batwing?

I dont see Croc in him. Didnt see Penguin as a big angry muscled monster wrecking the city. I saw him more as an original creation and someone more like an evil version of Edward Scissorhands. A makeover which created a new and a very interesting character. I like it when movies use the source as a jumpbase and add new twist to them. The movie Penguin is a far superior character with more depth and character than a long nosed gangster of the comics, just like Nolan's Joker spinoff is almost as interesting as the comic Joker

The similarities with Croc are: a deformed mutant who lives in the sewer, was found by circus people, etc. Even the penguins in the sewer remind me of urban legends of alligators in the sewers.

 

[GothamAlleys]

But I still think that Bale was a better Bruce Wayne. I wouldn't suspect him as Batman before I suspected a reclusive millionaire like Keaton portrayed him.

It all comes down to personal taste, different takes, different strokes. For me Keaton is the single most appealing part of Burton's Batman movies, I just found his troubled and mysterious character more appealing and I like Keaton's presence. As for who would I suspect, I certainly wouldnt suspect any millionaire, but would be more suspicious of Bale's Wayne since he mysteriously dissapeared for years and now comes back and Batman appears changing the way of things. Also, Keaton's Wayne wasnt reclusive. He didnt like being around people and yes, when he was in his mansion he prefered to be alone and int he shadows, but outside he was just your average millionaire businessman. We know that he was still dong business and business deals were something he was doing very often, so I dont think anyone would suspect a millionaire that, for all everyone knows, for all his life walks around with a suitcase duing deals and just living life to be a creature of the night that suddenly appeared in the city

I just felt that the supporting cast was underdeveloped and underused. Thank you for the link by the way!

No prob, I think they were there as much as they neeeded too, they had small roles like in the original Kane/Finger run and I see no point in giving them any more screentime, that would only detract that particular story

What is the point of having a swordsman? The sword is obsolete because its reach is limited to that of your arm, while a gun can reach out much further. Not to mention the dude who holds the juke box.

But the thing is, he also had gunmen, and tons of them. It certainly doesnt hurt for the biggest mafia in the largest American city to have killers and hitmen specialized in different areas of killing

I am conceding this point, though many of my favorite Batman stories (of those I have read), are semi-realistic, like Batman: Year One, The Dark Knight Returns, The Long Halloween.

Well, thats the thing that always bothers me. Those comic books are always listed as bibles, but theyre not. Theyre just handful of comic books, which were in a way special, out of ordinary releases and dont represent entire decades of the canonical run. What bothers me a bit is that Goyer clutches on to and bases his entire Bat world on handful of comics. So far it worked and have no criticism towards the Nolan Bat, but the thing is that those few comic books certainly do not represent the entire comic continuity

I can concede to this point, though I am not a fan of the insane Batman. I just feel it is unnecessary. If Batman must be insane to wear a costume to fight crime then so must Spider-Man, Daredevil, Superman, and every other costumed hero be.

Each superhero is different, and the Kane/Burton Batman was special not only because it didnt have superpowers, but because it was a Gothic character, it was someone who is like a vampire from old Gothic stories. As Kane said: The first year of Batman was heavily influenced by horror films, and emulated a Dracula look

As usual it comes down to personal preference, I just found this take on the character insanely interesting, to have a good guy who is described as being as insane as Joker and looks like a ghost or the Phantom of the Opera, whispering and staying in the shadow with his eyes coming out of the darkness, sleeping upside down and sitting alone in the dark in the castle.

Again, if anyone one missed it or is interested ( I even borrowed one paragraph from you) - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/01/batman-in-movies.html

But he generally was not that impressive in combat. For example, in the alley way fight scene, he is temporarily KO'ed by someone hitting him on the back.

Have no problems with Batman having occasional slips, after all, hes only human, hes not invincible. And also, even tho I know it wasnt what was intended, it shows Batman in a more realistic fashion, showing how black armor and thick material really isnt practical for fights, thats why Batman in comics wore spandex and thin material, that way his movement wasnt compromised at all (Comic Batman was as agile as SpiderMan and relied purely on his acrobatics and flexibility), the perception and senses werent compromised (as they normally are by a thick, solid mask which affects perception, hearing and vision) etc, etc. Of course Im not criticizing the black armor, Im just saying that its impractical for Batman's job as oppose to light spandex, and scenes like those reflected why

I concede here that they work for the Batmen incarnations. That said, I am tired of people saying that "Bale growls too much". This got old when everyone and their grandma parodied this after BATMAN BEGINS.

never had a problem with bale's Bat voice and I was amazed at how much heat it took on the internet when I started checking Bat boards

As something of an expert on military hardware, I can tell you that, yes they are. A laser guided missile could hit a leaf if the laser designator remains on that leaf. Gatling guns are very accurate weapons to maximize the rounds on target in a minimal amount of time. This is why jet fighters use these weapons as well as missiles.

If so then I stand corrected

I thought it was just odd and out of place in a serious movie like this. Burton couldn't think of a better way to destroy the Batwing?

I dont know, I thought it was very Joker-esque to take him down with such preposterous, typical customized Joker gadget

The similarities with Croc are: a deformed mutant who lives in the sewer, was found by circus people, etc. Even the penguins in the sewer remind me of urban legends of alligators in the sewers.

I know but I found those to be very vague, Crock was an angry hulk kind of a guy who was smashing everything and hated people for ridiculing him, Penguin was suppose to be an artistic/poetic mirror image of Batman, someone who lost his parents (but as oppose to Batman, was given up on rather then having them taken away) and its what permeates his entire life. Someone who is hurt and jealous/angry when seeing ther kids having what life denied him. Different motivations, different purposes in the story, different characters

 

[Godzilla2014]

It all comes down to personal taste, different takes, different strokes. For me Keaton is the single most appealing part of Burton's Batman movies, I just found his troubled and mysterious character more appealing and I like Keaton's presence. As for who would I suspect, I certainly wouldnt suspect any millionaire, but would be more suspicious of Bale's Wayne since he mysteriously dissapeared for years and now comes back and Batman appears changing the way of things. Also, Keaton's Wayne wasnt reclusive. He didnt like being around people and yes, when he was in his mansion he prefered to be alone and int he shadows, but outside he was just your average millionaire businessman. We know that he was still dong business and business deals were something he was doing very often, so I dont think anyone would suspect a millionaire that, for all everyone knows, for all his life walks around with a suitcase duing deals and just living life to be a creature of the night that suddenly appeared in the city

I guess I can see your point.

No prob, I think they were there as much as they neeeded too, they had small roles like in the original Kane/Finger run and I see no point in giving them any more screentime, that would only detract that particular story

I stand corrected.

But the thing is, he also had gunmen, and tons of them. It certainly doesnt hurt for the biggest mafia in the largest American city to have killers and hitmen specialized in different areas of killing

But it's the opportunity cost of the decision. For the price of a swordsman, he could have another gunman.

Well, thats the thing that always bothers me. Those comic books are always listed as bibles, but theyre not. Theyre just handful of comic books, which were in a way special, out of ordinary releases and dont represent entire decades of the canonical run. What bothers me a bit is that Goyer clutches on to and bases his entire Bat world on handful of comics. So far it worked and have no criticism towards the Nolan Bat, but the thing is that those few comic books certainly do not represent the entire comic continuity

I think that it would be simply impractical for a work to draw from all 70+ years of comics and still work.

Each superhero is different, and the Kane/Burton Batman was special not only because it didnt have superpowers, but because it was a Gothic character, it was someone who is like a vampire from old Gothic stories. As Kane said: The first year of Batman was heavily influenced by horror films, and emulated a Dracula look

As usual it comes down to personal preference, I just found this take on the character insanely interesting, to have a good guy who is described as being as insane as Joker and looks like a ghost or the Phantom of the Opera, whispering and staying in the shadow with his eyes coming out of the darkness, sleeping upside down and sitting alone in the dark in the castle.

I agree that it is a personal preference.

Again, if anyone one missed it or is interested ( I even borrowed one paragraph from you) - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/01/batman-in-movies.html

When did you borrow a paragraph from me?

Have no problems with Batman having occasional slips, after all, hes only human, hes not invincible.

True. I just don't think that Keaton's Batman ever really shines in combat, and certainly not to level that Bale's Batman does.

And also, even tho I know it wasnt what was intended, it shows Batman in a more realistic fashion, showing how black armor and thick material really isnt practical for fights, thats why Batman in comics wore spandex and thin material, that way his movement wasnt compromised at all (Comic Batman was as agile as SpiderMan and relied purely on his acrobatics and flexibility), the perception and senses werent compromised (as they normally are by a thick, solid mask which affects perception, hearing and vision) etc, etc. Of course Im not criticizing the black armor, Im just saying that its impractical for Batman's job as oppose to light spandex, and scenes like those reflected why

In the real world, Batman would probably have some type of body armor. I think the Batsuit of The Dark Knight has reached a balance between protection and mobility.

never had a problem with bale's Bat voice and I was amazed at how much heat it took on the internet when I started checking Bat boards

I have never really had a problem with it, especially when he needs to be intimidating.

I dont know, I thought it was very Joker-esque to take him down with such preposterous, typical customized Joker gadget

I guess.

I know but I found those to be very vague, Crock was an angry hulk kind of a guy who was smashing everything and hated people for ridiculing him, Penguin was suppose to be an artistic/poetic mirror image of Batman, someone who lost his parents (but as oppose to Batman, was given up on rather then having them taken away) and its what permeates his entire life. Someone who is hurt and jealous/angry when seeing ther kids having what life denied him. Different motivations, different purposes in the story, different characters

I guess, but the similarities to the Penguin also feel kinda vague.

 

[Ponyboy]

That's all unfounded speculation.

Yeah, sure.

 

[GothamAlleys]

When did you borrow a paragraph from me?

I just added it recently, nothing groundbreaking but something I forgot to add and simply pasted it there

Though the character is introduced in Detective Comics #27, we don't see Batman's origin until Detective Comics # 33, similar to how the audience doesn't see Batman's origin until shortly before the climax. Detective Comics # 27 begins several weeks after Batman has begun fighting crime, similar to how Batman begins with muggers already talking about Batman.

I think that it would be simply impractical for a work to draw from all 70+ years of comics and still work

70 years is not necessary, just at least about 20 issues of the modern age, most preferably from the 80s when comics werent about dramas and shocking twists but about storylines. When you take just a small crumble you cant say you tasted the cake. This way incorrect statements come out like that Joker doesnt remember his origins (based on one panel from one comic) or that he doesnt wanna kill Batman - all those myths come out from limiting to handful of issues out of an entire run. When researching a character, it shouldnt be that hard to pick up around 20 comics. For example, the 89 Joker really reflected the modern age O'Neil Joker. Now, Im not saying Nolan or Goyer SHOULD be faithful to comics or that they should read plenty of them, Im just saying that Goyer should stop flapping his mouth with false confidence that he knows about Batman when he read just 6 comics or at least acknowleding 6 of them. I know plenty of very old school comic fans who really cant stand the guy fro spewing all these false facts which are simply not true but not commonly known, so the new generation and new fans take them as gospel

Anyway

In the real world, Batman would probably have some type of body armor. I think the Batsuit of The Dark Knight has reached a balance between protection and mobility.

Its still impractical. Bale said the TDK suit was heavy but more mobile. Since it was vulnerable to gunshots and knives and was heavy, it was still much less practical than spandex. The mask is still made from strong solid material, thus still impairing vision, hearing and perception. But in the end the priority is what looks cool, and not to sacrifice good design and cool concept for reality. As Stan Kubrick used to say, "real is good but interesting is better"

 

[Godzilla2014]

I just added it recently, nothing groundbreaking but something I forgot to add and simply pasted it there

Though the character is introduced in Detective Comics #27, we don't see Batman's origin until Detective Comics # 33, similar to how the audience doesn't see Batman's origin until shortly before the climax. Detective Comics # 27 begins several weeks after Batman has begun fighting crime, similar to how Batman begins with muggers already talking about Batman.

I don't mind so long as you gave me credit.

70 years is not necessary, just at least about 20 issues of the modern age, most preferably from the 80s when comics werent about dramas and shocking twists but about storylines. When you take just a small crumble you cant say you tasted the cake. This way incorrect statements come out like that Joker doesnt remember his origins (based on one panel from one comic) or that he doesnt wanna kill Batman - all those myths come out from limiting to handful of issues out of an entire run. When researching a character, it shouldnt be that hard to pick up around 20 comics. For example, the 89 Joker really reflected the modern age O'Neil Joker. Now, Im not saying Nolan or Goyer SHOULD be faithful to comics or that they should read plenty of them, Im just saying that Goyer should stop flapping his mouth with false confidence that he knows about Batman when he read just 6 comics or at least acknowleding 6 of them. I know plenty of very old school comic fans who really cant stand the guy fro spewing all these false facts which are simply not true but not commonly known, so the new generation and new fans take them as gospel

I won't deny that there are other interpretations of the character than Nolan and Goyer's or the ones that they drew from for their films. There are certain stories that many people read that forms their concept of Batman, thus they become accepted by many fans as the "real Batman".

Anyway



Its still impractical. Bale said the TDK suit was heavy but more mobile. Since it was vulnerable to gunshots and knives and was heavy, it was still much less practical than spandex. The mask is still made from strong solid material, thus still impairing vision, hearing and perception. But in the end the priority is what looks cool, and not to sacrifice good design and cool concept for reality. As Stan Kubrick used to say, "real is good but interesting is better"

Spandex is more impractical. It offers no protection from gunfire, or flames, or anything. This incarnation of Batman is meant to be as it could exist in the real world. At the end of the day, this idea will, like pretty much any idea, appeal to some people and not to others. That is all that can really be said.

Also, it is rather hard to make spandex work for a character like Batman on film. If it someone makes it look great, then fine, if not, then I would rather take a suit like TDK's Batsuit.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Spandex is more impractical. It offers no protection from gunfire, or flames, or anything. This incarnation of Batman is meant to be as it could exist in the real world. At the end of the day, this idea will, like pretty much any idea, appeal to some people and not to others. That is all that can really be said.

But then again, the comic Batman had endurance of Spiderman and relied purely on it, even being able to dodge bullets. For someone who relies on his physical abilities, spandex is the most practical as it doesnt dilute his senses and movement. look what Batman can do in spandex

Plus, the TDK suit made Batman vulnerable to knives and gunshots so it didnt protect him from it

 

[Godzilla2014]

But then again, the comic Batman had endurance of Spiderman and relied purely on it, even being able to dodge bullets. For someone who relies on his physical abilities, spandex is the most practical as it doesnt dilute his senses and movement. look what Batman can do in spandex

Plus, the TDK suit made Batman vulnerable to knives and gunshots so it didnt protect him from it

The comics themselves say that the Batsuit is made of a combination of Kevlar (for bullet resistance effective against pistol rounds) and Nomex (for heat resistance) (and I think tear-resistant materials for knife resistance as well) in order to protect himself. The Batsuit of TDK also incorporates ceramics to raise the bullet resistance to levels effective against assault rifle rounds. Batman needs protection as well as mobility, because he can't always dodge every bullet that flies through the air. He isn't Spider-Man. As for the dilution of senses, as of Batman Begins, he has listening devices in the cowl's ears, so there.

As for the "TDK suit made Batman vulnerable to knives and gunshots" thing, there is no such thing as bulletproof, only bullet resistant. Having studied the matter, I can tell you that the kevlar vests that are worn by police officers can stop a pistol round like a 9mm Parabellum, but can be penetrated by an assault rifle round like the 5.56mm NATO. This is because the 5.56mm NATO travels at higher velocities than the 9mm NATO which requires more kevlar layers to stop. The proliferation of pistol-grade body armor is why assault rifle-based carbines like the M4 are rendering submachine guns like the MP5 obsolete in military usage. To stop rifle rounds, soldiers wear ceramic plates, at the cost of extra weight. Batman probably foresaw this trend and added ceramic plates.
Furthermore, the vulnerability is relative to the BB suit, because the plates of the TDK suit are separated to create crumple zones to improve mobility, so it is the areas inbetween the plates that is vulnerable. The plates themselves are as strong as ever. While the protection of the TDK suit is not as strong as its predecessor, it's a lot better than simple spandex.

 

[Ponyboy]

Yeah... I just don't think with all of Bruce Wayne's wealth that he'd step out in actual spandex.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yeah... I just don't think with all of Bruce Wayne's wealth that he'd step out in actual spandex.

I agree. The last thing a man who wants to be feared by the underworld would want is to look like he is wearing tights.

 

[Ponyboy]

Although, two words hack my previous statement to bits... Adam West.

 

[GothamAlleys]

The comics themselves say that the Batsuit is made of a combination of Kevlar (for bullet resistance effective against pistol rounds) and Nomex (for heat resistance) (and I think tear-resistant materials for knife resistance as well) in order to protect himself.

Yes, The Dark Knight Returns has Batman wearing kevlar underneath but again, its going back to handful of comics which dont even represent the entire age as a whole. The regular monthly comic books showed that Batman wears spandex only. Just a couple examples

The Batsuit of TDK also incorporates ceramics to raise the bullet resistance to levels effective against assault rifle rounds. Batman needs protection as well as mobility, because he can't always dodge every bullet that flies through the air. He isn't Spider-Man.

Hes no SpiderMan but he has incredible physical skills as probably no other man since he trained all his life. Whats the point of all this exceptional, one in a billion, life long training if hes gonna sacrifice and downplay that in order to be bulletproof. Decades of comics had Batman dodging bullets and ocassionaly getting hit in the arm or leg, from the very beginning of the character. As shown in the panels I just posted, he could even dodge a spear gun and thanks to spandex his flexibility wasnt compromised in any way. Theres so many superheroes who can be killed by bullets yet use spandex, and because it doesnt restrict their biggest power - agility and flexibility. And btw, how many times throughout the 2 movies was Bale's Batman shot, hmm?I mean, theres a reason why ninja wear the material and outfits they wear and not soldier gear

As for the dilution of senses, as of Batman Begins, he has listening devices in the cowl's ears, so there.

Doiesnt matter, once your head is covered up its like wearing a helmet with a visor. Your vision is compromised because the material isnt a skin tight material, its a thick rubber/plastic/kevlar and limits the side vision and thus dilutes those senses, and in combination of ears being plucked up it also downgrades the overall perception. Michelle Pfeiffer in a skin tight vinyl mask couldnt hear anything and had problems walking because the mask impaired her overall perception and creates a sense of claustrophobia

As for the "TDK suit made Batman vulnerable to knives and gunshots" thing, there is no such thing as bulletproof, only bullet resistant.

I know but the point is that the suit doesnt protect him from gunshots anymore, not as much as the other suit, and same goes even for knives. Its only a bare minimum protection which for this minimal protection sacrifices too much, like most importantly, movement and giving weight etc. And it doesnt even protect him from had to hand combat bruises

The only thing it does is hinder his physical abilities. My point is, the batsuit as black armor was never about practicality but about looking badass. It was born out of designer's Bob Ringwood's dislike for the character and his suit, not out of a need for practicality because for a guy who relies solely on his physical skills, putting on weight and something thick and very limiting physically is the least practical option

 

[theman]

i know nolans batfilms go the realism route, but personally, i just dont care for that. i doubt if BB the way it was made now all realistic and all that, came out in 1989 that it would have been as big a hit as batman was. you need the fantasy, the visuals, the comic bookyness. thats what i loved about the first 3 films, they were real yet not real. i guess i would call them surreal. they were fun, even Returns with all its dark stuff and tragic nature managed to have fun with the material when it could. nolans movies just do nothing for me really. even the choice of the batmobile is a poor one to me. i mean does that thing really look like a batmobile to you guys? they must have been grabbing for straws with that design. it had dorsel fins. please. anton furst rest his soul, he created the quintessential film batmobile. a ting of beauty. not to mention his gotham city. i loved the timeless quality of it. i love how the 90's batman films were visual spectacles and were like these huuuge sets. now gotham looks like chicago. what gives? thats so boring to me.

 

[GothamAlleys]

you need the fantasy, the visuals, the comic bookyness. thats what i loved about the first 3 films,

Thats pretty much what I loved about the comic books, I enjoyed the supernatural stories more than others. In the 80s they were very spooky and always extremely dark and very well written. Lets not forget that Batman was a realistic guy but his world from inception was a fantasy world, modelled after Dick Tracy and even compared to Alice in Wonderland. Having said that I love Nolan's movies as I stated many times already, and think the realism works because its a new approach that hasnt been done before, a fresh take on Batman

 

[Godzilla2014]

Thats pretty much what I loved about the comic books, I enjoyed the supernatural stories more than others. In the 80s they were very spooky and always extremely dark and very well written. Lets not forget that Batman was a realistic guy but his world from inception was a fantasy world, modelled after Dick Tracy and even compared to Alice in Wonderland. Having said that I love Nolan's movies as I stated many times already, and think the realism works because its a new approach that hasnt been done before, a fresh take on Batman

I think one of the reasons that the Nolan Batman films have been so popular is that the realism take on Batman is done well and the audience can relate to the character. It's a fresh take that works for me. I actually think Batman Begins may have a superior origin story for Batman than the comics, or at least a more believable one. The characters feel like real people with real motivations.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I actually think Batman Begins may have a superior origin story for Batman than the comics, or at least a more believable one

Agreed

 

[theman]

what surprises me is the audience has changed so much in the past 10 or so years. they now can accept a darker batman again. BB wasnt all that dark, it was more serious but not dark really. TDK was indeed darker storyline but im surprised it made as much money as it did. it didnt have the "epic" scope of B89 or even batman forever, it wasnt such a "fun" movie. yet it made all this cash. part of me thinks it had to do with heath ledger OD'ing and the movie got lots of *sad* publicity cuz it that, but i think also think ppl are more accepting of a darker hero as opposed to back in the early 90's when comic book films were expected to be fun action movies that kids can watch. i mean wow, if TDK as it is was released back then, it would have gotten the same critisism that batman returns got: parents complaining it was too dark, too serious, toy companies getting upset, etc. the main villian in both films is a greasy long haired grotesque killer with evil ulteior motives, and both batman and 2face are tragic characters with tragic ends.


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i guess its like that magazine article said, every generation gets the batman it deserves. but my feeling is that burtons batman, partoicularly batman returns, was ahead of its time in that it was very dark and told a very emotional story and wasnt just about the explosions and action pieces.

i have nothing against realism, but i guess after 4 fantastical batman films thats what ive come to expect from these movies, and then nolan insists on everything being grounded in a kind of reality which for me at least, brings the movie down a bit. i like comic book films to feel like comic book films. sam rami did a good job with the first spiderman, its a real world but he made it like a comic book feel. i liked that. burton did the same thing with B89 and even Returns to an extent. but nolan for me needs to lighten up on the realism.

 

[Fudgie]

The Nolan movies are much better. They're more mature, stay more true to the characters, and actually have a story to them. The Burton movies are all style and no substance.

 

[theman]

you see you should have added "IMO" to your sentences because not everyone agrees with that statement.

firstly, i am not a comic book reader. i have a few batman comics somewhere but i grew up on the movies and enjoy them much more. so being extremly accurate or not doesnt bother me, as long as the movie itself is fun or entertaining. tim burtons movies hit that spot. even batman forever did. but those are really where the love ended. B&R was cheesy as hell and nolans batman bored me to death. so its like, i stick with what i like more. i dont agree at all that the newer films are "more accurate" (seriously, joker cutting his smile with no jokes? scarecrow in a buisness suit? ras haveing no lazerus pits?) but thats not what bugs me. its the execution. i just dont like nolans vision for the batman universe. its boring to me.

as for style over substance, have you even seen the movies? sounds like just another nolan asskisser to me. blindly excepting the new and bashing the old. disgracegful. ive never seen a comic look anything like nolans movies.

 

[Fudgie]

I don't need to add IMO. It should be obvious I'm speaking for myself.

Yeah I've seen the movies. Wouldn't comment on them if I didn't. The Nolan movies are more enjoyable to me because theres more for me to enjoy and sink my teeth into. Yeah Nolan made some changes, though the ones you listed were mainly physical ones. As far as characterization goes he got more right than Burton ever did. I don't like a Joker who cant set foot in public without assaulting my ears with Prince music, or who fancies himself as some kind of artist, or follows Vicki Vale around like a dirty randy old man, or who killed Batmans folks.

I wont even comment on how much he screwed up Penguin and Catwoman. They speak for themselves. Call me all the names you like. You're a troll who just has a chip on your shoulder because I don't like the same movies as you. Get over yourself.

 

[theman]

no, you are stateing your opinion like it is fact which its not. get off your high horse and have some manners when talking on a public forum and stop being a troll, which is what you are being.

im not going to get into a argument with someone who's replies are that of a 5 year old. there is obviously no point in talking with someone like that. you like what you like, i like what i like. but one if not more right then the other. i think tim burton is a genious and its obvious your just a 12 year old jumping on the nolan bandwagon. ha, if it was burton as the new director on the block you would easily kiss his ass too. funny how that works.