To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

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Greens said:
Point 1. Everything must have a cause --> God is the cause
Point 2. God doesn't need a cause --> contradicts point 1
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God is Eternal. He is the Great uncaused Cause. Now,I know Atheists don't like that reasoning,because you can't simply put God in a box and say He has limitations. But it's the case. God exists outside the rules of time & space. He need have no beginning, because He will have no end. (and we know equally, all things must come to an end.)
 
XtremelyBaneful said:
It's not unreasonable to me. I'm not saying I agree with every single thing that guy said, but that particular segment I do.
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But it doesn't follow. It's special pleading. You can't hang your idea on one point, and then literally contradict it in the next sentence, which is what the "God caused it" argument does.
 
I checked out A.D yesterday. Not entirely impressed. I liked the "villains" storylines the most. (Pilate & his wife,Caiaphas debating Joseph) The stuff with the disciples was fairly underwhelming. I guess they couldn't afford to put all 11 in,since we only got 4.(John,Peter and two "nameless" ones)

I think it was a mistake not using the same actors from "The Bible", since we never get to know this version of Jesus beyond the trial/crucifixion. I don't feel that we get the same emotional attachment to him.But the story was more or less sound,scripturaly.

I also saw a bit more of Killing Jesus (against my better judgement). I admit,I admire their guts in showing Jesus abuse at the hands of the Sanhedrin. (the PC police generally won't allow it) But, it had the most anticlimactic finish. After seeing the empty tomb,Jesus is not seen,but Peter catches a lot of fish,prompting his belief in the Resurrection.:huh:
 
moviedoors said:
But it doesn't follow. It's special pleading. You can't hang your idea on one point, and then literally contradict it in the next sentence, which is what the "God caused it" argument does.
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but I don't think it contradicts. i'll say it is paradoxical though. everything in existence had a beginning and may have an end. all except god.

i'm not saying you have to believe that/agree with that too, but I don't see it as "special pleading", "nonsensical" "unreasonable" or what have you.
 
ShadowBoxer said:
At the end of the day I believe what I believe for reasons I have stated many times in this topic. I simply don't believe in that everything the way it is by mere chance or randomness.
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If you make a claim that millions of people follow a particular religion, and cite this as a valid part of you reasoning... then when it is pointed out that millions or over a billion in the case of Islam have a different belief:

My question is, "How is that part of your proof that Christianity and it's version of God are the truth?"
 
XtremelyBaneful said:
but I don't think it contradicts. i'll say it is paradoxical though. everything in existence had a beginning and may have an end. all except god.

i'm not saying you have to believe that/agree with that too, but I don't see it as "special pleading", "nonsensical" "unreasonable" or what have you.
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But it is! It's textbook special pleading. You've even admitted its paradoxical nature. You're laying a ground rule for how things work, but then immediately throwing it out to make God fit. That's special pleading.
 
moviedoors said:
But it is! It's textbook special pleading. You've even admitted its paradoxical nature. You're laying a ground rule for how things work, but then immediately throwing it out to make God fit. That's special pleading.
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but we're talking about something transcendent aren't we? if it comes off as special pleading i still don't believe it discredits the argument in favor of god's existence.

and i've talked a lot about how religion talks about paradoxical situations. and that also doesn't make me believe in god less. if anything, it somewhat helps me to understand how unfathomable god for one is, and how things can be in the universe as perceived as an infinite amount of time and space.
 
People have doubts in Jesus. They should also have some doubts in Moses, a murderer according to the bible :huh:

Exodus Chapter 2 verse about Moses

"And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand."

:o
 
XtremelyBaneful said:
but we're talking about something transcendent aren't we? if it comes off as special pleading i still don't believe it discredits the argument in favor of god's existence
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It might not, but we would still need to firmly establish the existence of a god AT ALL before any of these other arguments are even relevent.

These arguments only "prove" themselves in a circular, self referential way that doesnt prove anything at all. We're on our third iteration of this thread and I still have yet to see anyone break out of this cycle of argumentation and present some real evidence to dig into.
 
moviedoors said:
It might not, but we would still need to firmly establish the existence of a god AT ALL before any of these other arguments are even relevent.

These arguments only "prove" themselves in a circular, self referential way that doesnt prove anything at all. We're on our third iteration of this thread and I still have yet to see anyone break out of this cycle of argumentation and present some real evidence to dig into.
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bro I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. It's not my job to come up with an argument that sounds sound to you to convince you god is real if you don't believe so. you have the right to think whatever you want as long as it doesn't personally hurt others.

the statement of god being eternal helps me (someone who believes in god) understand the oneness of god, and how there cannot be any other, and that "god" is supposed to mean something greater than how it is constantly being valued in today's terms.
 
BatmanVSuperman said:
If you make a claim that millions of people follow a particular religion, and cite this as a valid part of you reasoning... then when it is pointed out that millions or over a billion in the case of Islam have a different belief:

My question is, "How is that part of your proof that Christianity and it's version of God are the truth?"
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I kinda worded it wrong in my other post. What I was saying that for me, when I see people at my church or thousands at Christian conferences ( or millions who watch church services online ) make the devsion to follow christ and the difference it makes in their lives, it gives validation for me. In my own personal life I believe in my heart that he's the God of the bible is the truth. In my opinon, the other Gods, other religions worship is the same God just interpreted in a different way. I am not gonna say this is fact, but it's my honest opinon and validates things for me.
 
How was everyone's Easter? I watched ten commandments for the first time ever great movie!
 
Afterlife is something man had pondered over since he developed an intellect, all religions have a form of afterlife in their doctrines but it's an un-answerable question really as to whether there is or isn't an afterlife, one cannot know until they die but one can believe in one while living.

Do you believe in an afterlife?

(his isn't a religioun topic but a general musing topic)
 
Yes 100% because I belive in go and heaven and hell and I think it would be to stupid to just die and that's it. Makes more since that there is something more to life then just that to me. I don't belive that people come back has animals or any thing like that though.
 
Blitzkrieg Bop said:
Nope, not at all. In no way, shape, or form.
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How do you feel about that belief?

It's something I've been thinking of lately.

I want to believe in an afterlife but I just can't and it's a scary thought really.
Everyone wants to continue but I can't wrap my head around the idea that when my body dies what makes me me doesnt.

I suppose it's about faith in something intangible which I don't have much of and I guess that lack of faith leaves me feeling like a drop of rain, one of billions that is created, falls and ceases and that equals a lack of meaning to it all.
 
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I personally find there being no afterlife quite comforting.
 
I believe in the multi-verse theory and I think when we leave this mortal coil something transcends to another dimension
 
I believe that when we die our spirit is free to go wherever in the universe we want to go because pure subatomic energy isn't restricted.
 
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