To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[ShadowBoxer]

Some interesting articles

What makes Christianity different from other religions

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christianity-unique.html


What other world religions think about Jesus

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/worldview/what-other-world-religions-think-about-jesus

Mark Ruffalo opens up about his Christian faith

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/film/mark-ruffalo

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Just got word about a awesome story coming out of my church. Apparently this family in the church had a member who was really ill for the past few weeks and the doctors here didn't really know what was wrong. Last night things took a turn for the worst. The family was told that their loved one probably wasn't gonna make it through the night by medical professionals. So one of the church pastors was called and visted. During the mist of the families grief, the just stood by them and started praying. This AM word spread from the family what their loved was is completely healed and it's like nothing was wrong with them at all.

When I hear stuff like this it just reaffirms my faith. Sure non religious people would say it's just a medical mystery that we haven't figured out yet and that the human body is complex. While those explanations may be plausible, I don't believe that it was a higher power at play. For someone to go from being seriously ill for week or two and knocking on death's door, to completely healed in a span of six or seven hours is nothing short of a miracle. Jesus also healed people in the bible who had faith in him. So I definitely believe God can heal people today in the same way. That open communication between believers and God himself through prayer is something that separates Christianity from other religions.

 

[moviedoors]

You know what would be a true medical miracle? Regrowing a limb. Anything short of that isn't really a miracle.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

This is what I was getting at. I'm a non-practicing Muslim. I avoid RL conversations about religion, because of **** like this. What's sad is that the Qur'an teaches and encourages Muslims to embrace Christians and Jews as our own and yet the hate runs deep because of misrepresentation in Western media (let's cherry pick and expose 'Murikkka to the crazy radicals as if Islam is the only religion that has them).

I've heard of the whole "people of the book" thing but I hear the Qur'an also encourages violence towards them. It's unclear, and I don't know, this is just what I heard.

 

[Greens]

You know what would be a true medical miracle? Regrowing a limb. Anything short of that isn't really a miracle.

This would be the perfect example for me that there is a higher power at play. Isn't it funny that a clear miracle like this has never been recorded?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

yes there are. for example, the universe isn't over 14 billion years old, it's approximately 13.8 billion years old.so we have to wait 10-15 years to see the outcome. when i was in high school, gliese 581c caused a huge commotion because it was believed to be the first super earth found to be in the goldilocks zone but later deemed another venus. again, i'm not doubting that one day it will happen, but there is still no actual proof, yet. there's proof that it is likely, but that's not proof of it being real.

EDIT:I stand corrected, there is an uncertainty, giving the range between 13.8-14.4. so there's that.

This is not correct there have been several super earths that are confirmed to be in the Goldilocks zone. I'll provide you with links when I get home

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

This is not correct there have been several super earths that are confirmed to be in the Goldilocks zone. I'll provide you with links when I get home

define "several".

and if these super earths are anything like gliese 581c, the astronomers who discovered them are slightly mistaken. not saying they are, but it has happened before.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Well for me, just looking around at nature and the world at large, I find it hard to believe that all this just happen randomly. Typically when something happens by accident or by random chance, the end result usually isn't good. I mean it just so happens that the results of this big explosion created a planet that not only has life, but is perfectly suitable for said life forms. Just seems like a huge leap of faith to believe that. All those things just so happened to perfectly line up to be where we are today.

 

[ThePreface]

I've heard of the whole "people of the book" thing but I hear the Qur'an also encourages violence towards them. It's unclear, and I don't know, this is just what I heard.

The Qur'an never encourages violence. It encourages self defense (which is common sense). Now some people (with agendas) take that twist it's meaning to suit their interpretation and run with it.

I'm paraphrasing here, but the Qur'an also states that to take a life is the equivalent of killing all mankind and to save a life is the equivalent of saving all of mankind.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The Qur'an never encourages violence. It encourages self defense (which is common sense). Now some people (with agendas) take that twist it's meaning to suit their interpretation and run with it.

I'm paraphrasing here, but the Qur'an also states that to take a life is the equivalent of killing all mankind and to save a life is the equivalent of saving all of mankind.

I know about your second statement and I want to believe your first, but I've heard such things like that the Qur'an stating to cut off a thief's hand. I don't have all the details, but it's things like that that makes the book seem so violent. And lines up exactly with what people say about the religion and its extremist followers.

 

[ThePreface]

I know about your second statement and I want to believe your first, but I've heard such things like that the Qur'an stating to cut off a thief's hand. I don't have all the details, but it's things like that that makes the book seem so violent. And lines up exactly with what people say about the religion and its extremist followers.

It's about balancing faith with reason. When analyzed from a historical context the Qur'an and Torah were revealed to Muhammad and Moses (pbut) during war time. The Muslims were being attacked by polytheists that inhabited the Arabian peninsula and the Hebrews were enslaved by the Ancient Egyptians. If a particular passage of scripture comes off as severe that should be kept that in mind. Also translations from Arabic often have trouble conveying the message properly.

As far as I'm personally concerned I believe I was blessed with enough reason to distinguish right from wrong without the hand-holding of an Imam or some random crazy's interpretation of scripture. Often times people take advantage of the desperation of others and use that to twist scripture to their own ends.

 

[Human Torch]

You know what would be a true medical miracle? Regrowing a limb. Anything short of that isn't really a miracle.

That's a very unreasonably narrow definition.

 

[moviedoors]

That's a very unreasonably narrow definition.

Actually, it's THE definition.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's about balancing faith with reason. When analyzed from a historical context the Qur'an and Torah were revealed to Muhammad and Moses (pbut) during war time. The Muslims were being attacked by polytheists that inhabited the Arabian peninsula and the Hebrews were enslaved by the Ancient Egyptians. If a particular passage of scripture comes off as severe that should be kept that in mind. Also translations from Arabic often have trouble conveying the message properly.

As far as I'm personally concerned I believe I was blessed with enough reason to distinguish right from wrong without the hand-holding of an Imam or some random crazy's interpretation of scripture. Often times people take advantage of the desperation of others and use that to twist scripture to their own ends.

I understand that, but the thing is, the Qur'an is written for ALL times. Not just for the time of revelation. It is for all of mankind, no matter the time. It is true that it is hard to translate old school Arabic into any language, but it is all still human tongue so there should be a way of understanding it all.

If you have more knowledge about this, I encourage you to post it to enlighten me and whoever else is interested because I'd like to know more. I've been saying I'm gonna start reading it again but I still haven't.

 

[Human Torch]

Actually, it's THE definition.

Er,no. Miracles are any acts of God that are not explainable.

But anyway,this smacks of the same thinking the Pharisees/Herod had when they tempted Jesus to do something in the Sky to prove His Divinity. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Human Torch]

Some interesting articles

What makes Christianity different from other religions

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christianity-unique.html


What other world religions think about Jesus

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/worldview/what-other-world-religions-think-about-jesus

Mark Ruffalo opens up about his Christian faith

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/film/mark-ruffalo

I didn't know Ruffalo was Christian. Good for him.

 

[moviedoors]

Er,no. Miracles are any acts of God that are not explainable.

But anyway,this smacks of the same thinking the Pharisees/Herod had when they tempted Jesus to do something in the Sky to prove His Divinity. It doesn't work that way.

A miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Treatable disease does not fall under that purview.

And if miracles are real, why hasn't there ever been a case of an amputee regrowing a limb? Why do miracles stop short of the truly impossible?

 

[moviedoors]

Typically when something happens by accident or by random chance, the end result usually isn't good.

But over billions of years, those incidents that are good start to add up. That's why it takes BILLIONS of years.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

But over billions of years, those incidents that are good start to add up. That's why it takes BILLIONS of years.

And it still takes a huge amount of faith that all those "good things" will line up perfectly and create something amazing.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Er,no. Miracles are any acts of God that are not explainable.

But anyway,this smacks of the same thinking the Pharisees/Herod had when they tempted Jesus to do something in the Sky to prove His Divinity. It doesn't work that way.

Right on! Even if God did start to do those things like regrow limbs, I am sure non believers would still try to discredit it as acts of God because they are to caught up in their way of doing life.

 

[Greens]

And it still takes a huge amount of faith that all those "good things" will line up perfectly and create something amazing.

It's only amazing from our point of view. The universe isn't amazing, it just is. Our perception is what makes it amazing in our eyes. I also don't see why you think it lined up perfectly. We can ONLY survive on our little blue and green ball, as of this moment. We're one blue and green ball away from not existing. Doesn't sound like the universe lined up perfectly to me.

 

[Greens]

Right on! Even if God did start to do those things like regrow limbs,

Why hasn't he?

 

[Breogan]

Right on! Even if God did start to do those things like regrow limbs, I am sure non believers would still try to discredit it as acts of God because they are to caught up in their way of doing life.

If anyone does it it will be scientist, who didn't cower away leaving fate to the supernatural. but actually bothered to grasp and understand the natural world around them, with all it's imperfections and flaws, and actually tried to improve it by doing something about it.

And it still takes a huge amount of faith that all those "good things" will line up perfectly and create something amazing.

The "good" in nature is completely relative, it' can also be cruel, violent and inhospitable. The reason things "lined up" is because we evolved to survive in them specifically.

 

[ThePreface]

If anyone does it it will be scientist, who didn't cower away leaving fate to the supernatural. but actually bothered to grasp and understand the natural world around them, with all it's imperfections and flaws, and actually tried to improve it by doing something about it.

You do know that science and religion/spirituality aren't mutually exclusive. From my point of view the sciences are tools to better understand the universe that God created.

 

[Human Torch]

Right on! Even if God did start to do those things like regrow limbs, I am sure non believers would still try to discredit it as acts of God because they are to caught up in their way of doing life.

Exactly. Even back in Moses day,the Pharaoh's "wise men" "duplicated" the first three Miracles to Pharaoh's satisfaction. So I'm positive any Miracle,no matter how big or small,would be able to be explained away to an unbeliever's satisfaction.